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Old 12-09-2012, 12:23 PM   #1
Talon87
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Star Trek: Into Darkness

Promotional trailer
Promotional trailer for Japan (has extra bit at the end)

Quote:
When the crew of the Enterprise is called back home, they find an unstoppable force of terror from within their own organization has detonated the fleet and everything it stands for, leaving our world in a state of crisis. With a personal score to settle, Captain Kirk leads a manhunt to a war-zone world to capture a one man weapon of mass destruction. As our heroes are propelled into an epic chess game of life and death, love will be challenged, friendships will be torn apart, and sacrifices must be made for the only family Kirk has left: his crew.
The movie doesn't even look like it has much to do with outer space. ^^; The enemy looks like he could either be Khan (really? ) or else another Nero-like character (some dude from the future who wants Kirk dead for reasons Kirk can't even understand), either of which concerns me. Most of the action looks like it takes place on the ground and involves bombs and guerrilla warfare. No blatantly obvious aliens. Too many mindless explosions and action sequences. I dunno. The first Abrams Star Trek was a pleasant surprise. Hopefully this one will be too.

EDIT: Added the Japanese version. It shows at the end what is clearly an allusion to the end of Star Trek II: the Wrath of Khan. Only time will tell whether it's a red herring or not.

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Old 12-09-2012, 04:53 PM   #2
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I read some people saying that Abrams got too involved with his other projects and pretty much half-arsed this movie, which is sad given how successful the first was.

I'm really cheering for Khan being an ally and not a villain (forever). Things would be soooooo cool if Khan got to rule his planet but was loyal to the Federation.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:24 PM   #3
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Well, we aren't sure if it's Khan yet or not because of so many conflicting reports, but it's plausible that it is.

I'm really looking forward to this movie, and it's soundtrack. The last one was very, very well done and had an amazing score. I really hope these rumors of Abrams half assing this movie are false, because despite it lacking space scenery in the trailer, it looks stunning. Hope it turns out to be great.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:26 PM   #4
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One of my thoughts is that this guy is a made-for-Hollywood member of Section 31 and that he's come back in time to change history.

Another thought is the obvious "Could they seriously be pursuing the Khan angle again?", all the more so given that tease of a final scene at the end of the Japanese trailer. It could just be a red herring, it could also not be. Who knows. Writes one fansite,
Quote:
Trek’s new filmmakers have often cited the Christopher Nolan’s Batman series as their model, with the second film The Dark Knight successfully bringing back the Joker: and Khan is the closest to Trek gets to Batman’s Joker. And again the team kind of already let the cat out of the bag on this one when they recorded the DVD commentary back in 2009 and said they had considered a post-credits scene showing the Botany Bay, Khan’s sleeper ship. Then of course there is Abrams widely reported casting process which began with Benecio del Toro and went through a number other prominent Latino (like [original Khan actor Ricardo] Montalban) actors before he ended up picking Cumberbatch, after what has been said to be a very powerful audition.
The Dark Knight comparisons are certainly everywhere. From the style of the trailer (which feels so, so much like The Dark Knight Rises's trailer it's not even funny) to the design of the poster (they're the two on the upper right corner here), there's a lot that suggests Paramount is trying for "Christopher Nolan Star Trek without actually hiring on Christopher Nolan." If true, then yeah, I would agree that the closest thing Star Trek has to the Joker in a single man would be Khan Noonien Singh. That stated, I think the closest thing Star Trek has to the Joker generally is the entire race we call Klingons. They were always to Star Trek back in the original series what the Joker has been to Batman since his debut almost a century ago.

One thing a lot of people are saying is that he's Gary Mitchell, a villain from TOS who has a personal beef with Kirk and perhaps Star Fleet at large for marooning him on a planet. The problem with the Mitchell character though is that he's like "half a Q", and if you know anything about Q, you know that that makes Mitchell way too powerful of a foe for even the most talented writers to properly handle the defeat of. (Indeed, Mitchell's defeat in the original episode he showed up in is pitiful: despite being someone who can make matter appear or disappear with a simple thought, he manages to find himself trapped in a makeshift grave because Kirk puts big boulders on top to seal it off. ¬_¬ Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. He couldn't just, y'know, imagine the boulders away or something.) So why are fans clinging to the Mitchell theory? Because Abrams let drop three names in some interview last year, of which Gary Mitchell's was one; and then in a later interview he admitted that one of the three names he had said in the interview was in fact the film's villain. So there's that to go off of. From what little we saw in the trailer, it could certainly be correct. But ... man would that be a bad choice of villain. "Captain McDreamy of the USS Enterbabyblueeyes vs. a demigod ... and the demigod loses!" Anyway, apparently the report that people point to in which Abrams admitted one of his three namedrops was indeed the villain ... has itself been rejected by various sources given a later press release from Paramount or Abrams (it's not clear to me which) in which they announced "The villain is not Mitchell."

I think we won't know the full truth until the next trailer comes out or an information leak in between then and now. From what I've been reading, it sounds like Paramount wanted the villain to be Khan because:
  • copy Nolan's formula for big $$$ with Khan as Trek's Joker
  • casuals recognize him
  • Star Trek II remains the most popular of the original Star Trek films so it's at least as safe as any other remake put out in the last decade
And it sounds like Abrams was against this for the reasons that I think concern most of us:
  • Oh come on.
  • We're not going to be able to find an actor who can outclass Ricardo Montalban in most fans' eyes. William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy, sure, but they were easy. Ricardo Montalban, good luck.
  • We haven't established the Botany Bay subplot in the rebooted Trek universe. The reason Star Trek II worked ... was because there was this thing called "Space Seed" that aired on television twenty years before and had set the enmity between the two characters up. We haven't done that here. Kirk is just some college Star Fleet graduate who hasn't done shit in the universe yet other than the events of the first film. We'd either have to show him doing the Botany Bay thing ... and then say "10 years later" ... and then bring Khan back ... or else it's going to be fucking retarded when we have this villain show up who says he hates Kirk with the intensity of a thousand suns.
But it sounds like Paramount's counterargument is that most Americans do watch and enjoy Star Trek II without knowledge of "Space Seed" ... and I know that that was true for me too as a kid! I saw Star Trek II on television at least two or three times before I even knew Khan had been in an episode of the original series. Paramount might be banking on most people not needing "Space Seed" for Star Trek II v.2.0 to work. And in that case, they could have pushed Abrams into writing up a script in which Khan v.2.0 is the villain.

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Old 12-09-2012, 05:42 PM   #5
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COUNTERPOINT!

I've seen Space Seed. I haven't seen The Wrath of Khan.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:37 PM   #6
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I believe that the villain is Gary Mitchell, but that's just a (well substantiated and makes a lot of sense) rumour.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:42 AM   #7
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Benedict Cumberbatch is still skinny. Therefore he isn't Khan.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:03 AM   #8
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Trust me, I don't want it to be Khan. But I'd rather it not be Mitchell either. With Mitchell, I really worry that he won't feel like a believable demigod, an entity which has the intelligence and emotions of a human but the ability to consciously and deliberately sculpt reality with his mind. An area without any trees suddenly has trees because he wills trees to be there. An area without water suddenly has water because he wills water to flow forth. This happened in the series. Such a man can easily, and should easily, operate on the level, "I don't want that person to exist so *scrunch eyes* I am going to will him out of existence!" And if we want to argue for limited range for his powers, I am 100% cool with that, but like, we know he created things in the TOS episode that were within several feet of him, so all he has to do is get within several feet of any of his targets and *SCRUNCH!* he can imagine them out of existence and away they ought to go. Such a villain is far too powerful and so when a team of writers makes the inevitable choice to not portray him as using his power at full potential, it's going to just as inevitably make me and every other analytical mind in the theater groan with displeasure at being treated by Hollywood like we're cavemen too stupid to realize why the plot should never have gone in the direction it will have done.

But hey: I enjoy Abrams Trek 1 and I am willing to give Abrams Trek 2 an open-minded try even if it should be confirmed that the villain is Gary Mitchell and his powers are supposedly the same as what was shown in the TV series.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:07 AM   #9
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Just looked the film's entry up on Wiki, and it says:

Quote:
After much speculation, Karl Urban stated that Cumberbatch would be playing Gary Mitchell.
So.

I swear to god I'm the only person who has never watched TOS at all. I'm not even kidding, I've seen the films and that one episode of DS9 where they go back in time, but that's it.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:37 AM   #10
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Yeah, I saw that already earlier today. There's a site that came up when I was googling (the one the quote box o' text came from, in fact) which listed The Top 5 Reasons It's Khan and The Top 5 Reasons It's Mitchell, and they mentioned Urban's (McCoy's actor's) comment about how Cumberbatch will play a good Mitchell. But apparently antecedent to this comment of his, Paramount emphatically denied the villain would be Mitchell. You can probably find that if you look for it. That's why fans are so confused.

As for not seeing any TOS, honestly I don't think you're missing too much. It was good for its time but it's no TNG. Then again, I haven't seen anywhere near all of TOS myself, so I could be missing many of the greatest episodes. Except it's those very ones the fans call the greatest that I've mostly seen. ^^;
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:54 AM   #11
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Tone this guy down. That's way to ridiculous to put as a villain. "Gary Mitchell" is also the most innocuous name for a super-villain I've ever heard.

Kirk x Khan superfriend team-up!

Actually with a character like that I know of a good solution to beating him, or at least it was featured in an anime I've watched recently.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:50 PM   #12
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Dopple, please stop suggesting your Kirk x Khan yaoi buddy film. No one takes it seriously and we start taking you less seriously.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:37 AM   #13
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Trailer from December 17, 2013
Trailer from March 21, 2013
Trailer from April 16, 2013

The newest two trailers have me more interested in the film than the first two/three did. But I'm still not that interested. -1 point for so much of the events taking place on Earth. -1 for so much of the film looking like a forgettable summer action blockbuster (just cram packed with fights, chases, and explosions). -1 for the idea that Kirk and his ragtag team of newbies could take down the überman that Benedict Cumberbatch's character appears to be. I dunno. I want to like it, so here's hoping it's really good.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
There's something really interesting 40 seconds into that trailer - Cumberbatch has just attacked the Enterprise and there's some weird white light spiralling around him. It's more likely this is just a reflection on his windscreen (especially with JJ's love for lens flare) but it could be something supernatural. I think that'd be a cool way of differentiating this Trek from a forgettable summer action blockbuster if Cumberbatch was some sort of Q-like character. I'm hoping I'm right anyway and this Isn't just a film about an ex-star fleet guy vs. a star fleet captain mostly taking place on Earth. That's not Star Trek!

Edit: Just watched the trailer again. Came to the conclusion that it can't be lens flare.

Then came to the conclusion its the same effect they use for beaming in the new films... Boo

Edit2: Cumberbatch also says "You are a poor Kirk"

So he's either referring to Jim's dad or the Kirk from the origional timeline. I'm guessing the latter, which gives this film some potential.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:14 PM   #15
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It does look a bit forgettable.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:35 AM   #16
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I saw it last night and I have to say, I enjoyed it just as much as the first one.

Would have liked a bit more fanservice though. ;-;
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:40 AM   #17
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I thought it was fairly heavy on fan service and low on plot or internal canonity.
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:04 AM   #18
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Gonna... have to actually agree with Merc here...

even though I enjoyed it immensely - I still think the first one was better.


Spoiler: show
I literally cringed when Spock yelled "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNN".
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:09 AM   #19
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Yeah I'm gonna have to agree. I enjoyed the film a lot, but the plot is reallllllllllllly fucking simple when you think about it.

Spoiler: show
I enjoyed the reveal of Khan though. I'd suspected it, and seeing how his blood was magic and he took a beatdown from Kirk while barely flinching strengthened it, but I still had the hairs on the back of my neck rise up when it was revealed.

That aside, yeah. The plot was a bit simple and we didn't see enough of the Klingons, in my opinion. I agree with Deo, the 'KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!' was very cringeworthy, and the last half-hour or so basically became 'lol let's see how many Wrath of Khan references we can shoehorn in'. Much as I love WoK... it felt a bit much.
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:30 AM   #20
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While cringeworthy, the Spock thing was actually ok in my book because it builds upon the character. I hate to say it but new!Spock is a better character than old!Spock ever was and it's only been two films.
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:45 AM   #21
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Yeah, old!Spock was flat to the point of being uninteresting. New!Spock has a little more depth to his character. It's not just "omg he's so alien how weird!!!!"; it sorta deals with the conflicting humanity/Vulcanness that he struggles with.
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:55 AM   #22
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Yeah, I mean the Vulcans are supposed to be more emotional than humans but to hold it in check so new!Spock is a much better realisation than most of the TOS era Vulcan stuff. Particularly as he's half human, which I feel they do well. So as I say the cringeworthy thing that they did with him is actually good. Making up for the rushed character development of Kirk that that scene was supposed to be doing.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:02 AM   #23
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Oh I agree that it makes sense, it was just super cringey.

I've liked Spock's character dev, but that might be because a) I've only ever watched the films of TOS and none of the series and b) I can't help but see him partly as Sylar from Heroes bcos Zachary Quinto.

Also the scene
Spoiler: show
in which Kirk gets a real dressing-down from Pike
gave me huge Sheldon Cooper vibes from Spock. Made me laugh.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:08 AM   #24
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TOS... is worth watching if you want to become more of a trekkie and want to gain some context on certain things that happen in the TNG era series and some of Roddenberry's ideals. There are probably about a half dozen episodes that are just televisiual gold and should be watched regardless. And even if you're not a trek lover it's interesting to see them try to break stereotypes and stigma of the time e.g. Uhrura on the bridge. But it's very much a show from the 60s and there is a lot of stuff in it that is fairly shameful now. As with TNG of course.

But to be honest TOS isn't fantastic.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:10 AM   #25
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Quote:
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Yeah, old!Spock was flat to the point of being uninteresting. New!Spock has a little more depth to his character. It's not just "omg he's so alien how weird!!!!"; it sorta deals with the conflicting humanity/Vulcanness that he struggles with.
The foundation for all of that existed in the old character, but I'm with you and the others 100% that (from what little I've seen, which is only the first film) Abrams Spock is much, much more interesting than Roddenberry Spock. A, he's much more believably a half-human half-Vulcan who struggles with his dual lineages. (Whereas in the original series, he always felt like someone who had rejected -- successfully, too! -- his human half, more or less defining himself 100% by his Vulcan heritage and more or less being as pure-blooded a son of Vulcan as they come.) B, the {big plot event that affected Spock in the first Abrams Trek film} lends his character a whole hell of a lot to work with. It's transformative, really, in several ways, but I see it as 100% good.

Spoiler: show
One, the destruction of Vulcan, and the loss of 99% of the Vulcan race along with it, makes Vulcans -- their species, their culture, their everything -- that much more mysterious and rare in the Abrams Trek world.

Two, given that Romulus still exists in Abrams' universe, should Abrams ever decide to revisit the Romulans or should his universe ever be given a television series in the vein of TNG or DS9, there will be a hell of a lot to work with regarding Spock the Diplomat, Vulcan-Romulan relations, and the fate of Vulcans (as a race) and Vulcan philosophy as we move forward into the 24th Century. I mean, that's the thing: if the Vulcans refuse Romulan help / reunification with Romulans, then depending on how few of them remain in the galaxy, they could very well be a genetic bottleneck that will vanish from existence in just a matter of a few centuries. Plenty far off for the Abrams universe to not have to worry about it, sure, but plenty close enough that his characters would be expected to care about it. Imagine if somebody told you that humanity only had 300 years of juice left. Would you a) write it off as "meh, not gonna happen in my lifetime! " or b) take it very seriously and try to find a solution? I think most of us would pick B. So getting to watch Spock choose B -- or getting to watch him reject B! -- would make for some great material.

Third (but unrelated to "the event" mentioned above, so I'm moving it out here), as far as stoic characters go, I would say that Roddenberry Spock was "out-Spocked" or outdone by both TNG's Data and by DS9's Odo. Both of these characters filled the Spock role in their respective series -- strange non-human crew member who is very tight-laced -- but, without writing up the essay on Spock, Data, and Odo, I'll just offer my personal conclusion that Data and Odo were far more entertaining and far more fascinating characters than Spock was. So like ... I don't see the benefit in trying to perfectly re-enact TOS Spock. Not only has he been done by Nimoy, but he's been outdone by Spiner and Auberjonois. This is why Abrams' departure from Roddenberry's Spock is so welcome. Abrams' Spock can dance with the best of 'em, given ample development onscreen.

Writing this post makes me realize how much I would like for Paramount to use these two films as a springboard into an Abramsverse television series. Given the huge crossover these days between Hollywood and the television industry, I would even think the problem of casting the same actors as in the films to be a surmountable one. I would really, really love to see three to five seasons of "Abrams TOS", especially given the potential I see for Vulcan-Romulan interaction as noted above.
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