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Old 06-01-2021, 10:54 AM   #51
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I'd be hesitant about assigning contest stats to new moves for now, since the Gen IV remakes are coming out later just this year, and it's possible we will have contest stats for them at that point. Like ORAS did with Megas, it's even possible that Dynamax will be included in Super Contests this time
Yeah like Lilt said BDSP might give us Contest rulings on some of the newer Moves, so I suggest we hold off on those until then and just go with what's currently official right now, but Spiny's list is definitely very useful as a back-up. At the least, we can use it to help incorporate Let's Go and Z-Moves(?).

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The proposal in general seems fine, lilboo. Although I would like to add, honestly mostly for flavour, the option for main ingredients, like Fancy Apples, Pre-cooked Burgers, etc. This could literally just be randomly posting one, or a small list of ones, in the month's opening so that people can choose from them. Or even just letting each group choose from any of them each month. It's not something that would do much, but it would add some fun, and I would not be surprised if there's some folks who want to do a CurryDex.
Oh I thought it was implied by my initial OP but yeah I'm all for letting people pick key ingredients to play with. Tbh I'm just looking forward to posting pretty images of the final cooked Curries. *shot* Although now that you bring it up, perhaps each month could indeed provide a different ingredient for flavor variety, so players can keep that in mind for how best to work with it.

Last edited by lilboocorsola; 06-03-2021 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 06-03-2021, 11:49 AM   #52
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*Pokes with broom*

Okay, so, I think basing it off of contest moves is a little... off? I don't know the best way to describe it, to be honest. I do like Spiny's list, though BDSP will probably affect things when it comes out in November. I rather not have to wait for November to get this live, so I don't know the best way to really quantify judging besides going off pokemon-type, move-type, and effect? Though like, that does cause some discretion. But then again using contest stuff does too since a lot of effects overlap both ways. I don't really see a solution where there aren't some subjective calls made.

As for free ingredients and a central monthly theme, I am completely for that. I think it would be a fun little challenge, then again I am OBSESSED with cooking competitions so I am speaking from personal bias there.
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Old 06-03-2021, 03:05 PM   #53
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*Pokes with broom*

Okay, so, I think basing it off of contest moves is a little... off? I don't know the best way to describe it, to be honest. I do like Spiny's list, though BDSP will probably affect things when it comes out in November. I rather not have to wait for November to get this live, so I don't know the best way to really quantify judging besides going off pokemon-type, move-type, and effect? Though like, that does cause some discretion. But then again using contest stuff does too since a lot of effects overlap both ways. I don't really see a solution where there aren't some subjective calls made.

As for free ingredients and a central monthly theme, I am completely for that. I think it would be a fun little challenge, then again I am OBSESSED with cooking competitions so I am speaking from personal bias there.
I agree with what Lilt says here. Contest style moves are well. Going to be difficult unless we come up with our own system / wait till November.

It's going to be a bit iffy there. I can see different types of moves affecting how the curry turns out over all thou

Ex, Water moves cause the Curry to be more watery in texture, while fire-based moves dry it out. Earth moves give it a more earthy flavor and Grass moves cause a more floral taste.
Flying based moves can make the curry more fluffy or airy and if you combine it with a fire move with some light weaker water moves you can make a cake curry


I only really think this would work with pretty obvious types that could affect cooking, but there's room for creativity here and we could build up a basis guideline for things n all that

Edit: I do want to get this kicked up pretty soon because I would love to spend time thinking out making dishes with pokemon
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Old 06-03-2021, 04:15 PM   #54
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I still think using Contest categories is the simplest and most convenient solution if we want to get this out quickly, even if they're not a perfect analogue. But if we want to take the time to develop a different method I'm open to suggestions. I just don't want folks to feel limited to only using certain Pokémon/Attack Types, and to leave as much room for creative interpretation as possible.

How about this then. There are 24 key ingredients (not counting Gigantamix, though as an aside I was wondering if we could incorporate that at some point as well), and 18 Pokémon Types, so we could assign a "Type" to each ingredient (with some overlap) that would influence which Moves are more effective. This could even stack with the Contest system, but either way would provide some unique guidelines to consider each month on top of flavor.

Some preliminary assignments off the top of my head:

Sausage - ?
Bob's Food Tin - Dragon*
Bach's Food Tin - Dark*
Tin of Beans - Steel
Bread - Normal
Pasta - ?
Mixed Mushroom - Poison
Smoke-Poke Tail - Psychic
Large Leek - Fighting
Fancy Apple - Bug
Brittle Bones - Ghost
Pack of Potatoes - Rock
Pungent Root - Water
Salad Mix - Grass
Fried Food - ?
Boiled Egg - Flying
Fruit Bunch - ?
Moomoo Cheese - ?
Spice Mix - Fire
Fresh Cream - Fairy
Packaged Curry - Electric
Coconut Milk - Ice
Instant Noodles - ?
Precooked Burger - Ground

*randomly tacked these two onto the brand tins to fill out the Type roster, since they were the only ones I couldn't think of a "clear" connection to any of the other foods
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Old 06-03-2021, 04:58 PM   #55
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I think the type alignment part might make it a bit too complicated, to be honest.

I'm wondering if there's a way we can play around with natures here, like a small boost to a curry if your use Pokemon with a nature that prefers that flavour (and no penalties for disliking), but that might be too complicated as well, and natures are kinda weird in FB, so I dunno. SPitting balls here, basically
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Old 06-03-2021, 05:09 PM   #56
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I think the type alignment part might make it a bit too complicated, to be honest.

I'm wondering if there's a way we can play around with natures here, like a small boost to a curry if your use Pokemon with a nature that prefers that flavour (and no penalties for disliking), but that might be too complicated as well, and natures are kinda weird in FB, so I dunno. SPitting balls here, basically
Altogether it might be too much, but I'm just trying to find a way to codify how Moves will be scored if people don't want to use Contest categories.

Natures were brought up before, but as previously pointed out not everyone has declared Natures in FB since they haven't had any use in a long time. If actual Contests make a comeback maybe we can see about implementing Nature flavor preferences again, but for now I'm fine with leaving them uncoupled from stat gains.
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Old 06-04-2021, 08:59 PM   #57
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Hmmm re:ingrediants

Hmm, I think we should have some flavors for the ones not added

Sausage- Spicy
Pasta- Dry
Fruit Bunch- Sweet
Fried Food- Sour
Moomoo Cheese- Bitter
Instant Noodles- Neutral

This was we can mix and match with these bases with my type aligned ingredients as well. I think basing off of types for now is the best system as a temp until BDSP. If this seems to work, then I'd like Yuki to be able to move forward with a overall hard draft.
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Old 06-05-2021, 08:20 AM   #58
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Hmmm re:ingrediants

Hmm, I think we should have some flavors for the ones not added

Sausage- Spicy
Pasta- Dry
Fruit Bunch- Sweet
Fried Food- Sour
Moomoo Cheese- Bitter
Instant Noodles- Neutral

This was we can mix and match with these bases with my type aligned ingredients as well. I think basing off of types for now is the best system as a temp until BDSP. If this seems to work, then I'd like Yuki to be able to move forward with a overall hard draft.
I like these to fill out the food list (although perhaps Spice Mix should be "Spicy" then? lol), though if we're going to include flavors maybe we can have the best of both worlds and still incorporate the Contest system for these ingredients specifically. That is, Berries will still determine the overall flavor of the dish (just for looks at this point really), but adding these key ingredients will result in the previously proposed Contest format to be used for that month instead. (Note the selected ingredient won't necessarily match whatever superficial flavor already determined by the Berries, but rather simply affects which Moves are more viable.)

That said, it might make things a little too complicated, so if we can find a way to standardize everything that'd probably be for the best. ^^; Maybe we could put up a poll on Discord to gauge whether people would prefer the Contest and/or Type setup so we know how to focus going forward?

At any rate, thinking about how a Type arrangement would work, and I'd still like to try pinpointing some numerical values. This is more for my own peace of mind to keep things as clear as possible, so let's say going by Base Power*...

1 Point = <50 BP
2 Points = 50-59 BP
3 Points = 60-69 BP
4 Points = 70-79 BP
5 Points = 80-89 BP
6 Points = 90+ BP

*Status Moves will receive a blanket 3 Points, perhaps?

Taking Type effectiveness into account, SE Moves will receive additional +1, and NFE Moves -1. Again, this is just so I have a way to quickly quantify everything by the end, but keeping the max possible score at a relatively low threshold I think still allows leeway for people to feel free to pick and choose whatever Moves they want to use, so long as it makes sense in a cookout/camp setting. There may still be some subjective calls made, but like Chris said earlier just don't do anything dumb like adding Toxic directly to a dish and you should be good lol.

Last edited by lilboocorsola; 06-05-2021 at 09:25 AM. Reason: Fixed the numbers a bit considering BP distribution.
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Old 06-10-2021, 04:33 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by lilboocorsola View Post


I like these to fill out the food list (although perhaps Spice Mix should be "Spicy" then? lol), though if we're going to include flavors maybe we can have the best of both worlds and still incorporate the Contest system for these ingredients specifically. That is, Berries will still determine the overall flavor of the dish (just for looks at this point really), but adding these key ingredients will result in the previously proposed Contest format to be used for that month instead. (Note the selected ingredient won't necessarily match whatever superficial flavor already determined by the Berries, but rather simply affects which Moves are more viable.)

That said, it might make things a little too complicated, so if we can find a way to standardize everything that'd probably be for the best. ^^; Maybe we could put up a poll on Discord to gauge whether people would prefer the Contest and/or Type setup so we know how to focus going forward?

At any rate, thinking about how a Type arrangement would work, and I'd still like to try pinpointing some numerical values. This is more for my own peace of mind to keep things as clear as possible, so let's say going by Base Power*...

1 Point = <50 BP
2 Points = 50-59 BP
3 Points = 60-69 BP
4 Points = 70-79 BP
5 Points = 80-89 BP
6 Points = 90+ BP

*Status Moves will receive a blanket 3 Points, perhaps?

Taking Type effectiveness into account, SE Moves will receive additional +1, and NFE Moves -1. Again, this is just so I have a way to quickly quantify everything by the end, but keeping the max possible score at a relatively low threshold I think still allows leeway for people to feel free to pick and choose whatever Moves they want to use, so long as it makes sense in a cookout/camp setting. There may still be some subjective calls made, but like Chris said earlier just don't do anything dumb like adding Toxic directly to a dish and you should be good lol.
I've had some time to think this over and while I am partial to contest styling with moves I really do like what you have proposed, I feel that this system with a number point assignment based on BP would work, I'll also throw up a Discord Poll regarding the above in the D&FAQ thread.
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Old 06-23-2021, 09:57 AM   #60
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*brushes dust off thread*

Okay, so the Discord Poll results showed 9 for Contest Style and 8 for Type Style. With that being very divided, I think we might have to go back to square one here. We definitely need to get this pushed through, but I'm at the point where I don't know how to exactly move forwards here... Both systems can work, but the main issue is that Contest-Style would hard delay Curry until BDSP is released in November, and, I rather not.

I think maybe the best thing to do would be to have both systems on alternating months with type-style being in place until BDSP is released and then contest style for the same amount of months until alternation? Though, it should give us enough time to test both systems to see which one ultimately works together. Kinda shitty, but, I feel like this is something that needs playtesting since the on paper can only get us so far.
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Old 06-23-2021, 07:04 PM   #61
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*brushes dust off thread*

Okay, so the Discord Poll results showed 9 for Contest Style and 8 for Type Style. With that being very divided, I think we might have to go back to square one here. We definitely need to get this pushed through, but I'm at the point where I don't know how to exactly move forwards here... Both systems can work, but the main issue is that Contest-Style would hard delay Curry until BDSP is released in November, and, I rather not.

I think maybe the best thing to do would be to have both systems on alternating months with type-style being in place until BDSP is released and then contest style for the same amount of months until alternation? Though, it should give us enough time to test both systems to see which one ultimately works together. Kinda shitty, but, I feel like this is something that needs playtesting since the on paper can only get us so far.
^ This was basically my thinking upon seeing the poll results. Although I was initially planning on just RNG'ing the theme each month (minus whatever's been done until the cycle begins anew), but yeah agreed with simply sticking to Type Style until BDSP releases.

The only thing is if we're incorporating both systems I'd like to standardize the point distribution a bit, since no Contest Moves award 5 points as far as I can see. So for Type it would look more like this(?):

1 Point = <50 BP
2 Points = 50-59 BP
3 Points = 60-69 BP
4 Points = 70-89 BP
6 Points = 90+ BP

If someone more maths-savvy wants to check over the numbers for fairness feel free. If things are otherwise fine I'll try to see if I can get an OP drafted up soon. No guarantees it will be ready/finalized for July but I'd definitely like to have this up and running by August.
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Old 06-29-2021, 12:10 AM   #62
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Okay here is what I have of the OP so far:

Spoiler: show


Welcome to the visitors' center at Fizzytopian Parks & Wildlife, where Pokémon of all kinds roam free in a variety of different habitats and biomes. Our sprawling sanctuary boasts a wide range of recreational activities, from leisurely hiking trails exploring the grassy hills and forest landscape - to large gorgeous lakes where you can swim or spend a relaxing aftenoon fishing*. You can even borrow a canoe from our rental shop to go kayaking along the rivers, or join a boat tour and observe the calm, natural beauty of the entire grounds. (For those who prefer a bit more of a challenge, there are also beginners' and expert whitewater rafting courses available.) Several designated rest stops and campsites are scattered throughout the area where trainers can take a load off and enjoy a nice picnic lunch, with complimentary convenience facilities and open firepits provided for outdoors cooking. All guests are graciously invited to participate in group cookout sessions by bringing Berries to our monthly Curry Potluck, so feel free to come on down and experience all the Park has to offer!

*A permit is required in order to fish in our waters, which can be obtained by submitting an application and paying a small fee to help support conservation efforts. Please be aware this license does not automatically allow you to take home any aquatic life; we ask that you respect the rules of the nature preserve and only practice catch and release. Capturing of wild Pokémon through battle is strictly prohibited!

Rules:
1) At the start of each month, players will have one week to post contributing up to five Berries in the pot, specifying whether they want to cook solo or partake in a group cookout.
2) A group may have up to five people with a maximum of five Berries between them.
3) The overall flavor of the Curry will depend on most predominant type of Berry added, or randomly selected out of types added if all different flavors. Berry Points will be tallied according to this flavor chart. Numbers are divided by five for each individual Berry (Ex: 1x Cheri Berry would be +2, and 5x Cheri Berries is +10 towards Spicy flavor.)
4) There will be two phases, each lasting approximately 10 days. Participants can order one Attack per phase. The first phase will be a general "Preparation Stage" of prepping the ingredients, equipment, etc. The second "Cooking Stage" will then consist of fanning the flames, stirring the pot, and any other suitable actions needed to make the meal.
5) Every month a different "Key Ingredient" will be drawn. Each ingredient has either an associated Pokémon Type or Contest Category that will be used to determine the central theme. (Note the ingredients' individual flavors have no bearing on Berry Points/the supplemental taste of the final dish, but rather which Moves are more effective.)

Sausage - Cool (Spicy)
Bob's Food Tin - Dragon
Bach's Food Tin - Dark
Tin of Beans - Steel
Bread - Normal
Pasta - Beauty (Dry)
Mixed Mushroom - Poison
Smoke-Poke Tail - Psychic
Large Leek - Fighting
Fancy Apple - Bug
Brittle Bones - Ghost
Pack of Potatoes - Rock
Pungent Root - Water
Salad Mix - Grass
Fried Food - Tough (Sour)
Boiled Egg - Flying
Fruit Bunch - Cute (Sweet)
Moomoo Cheese - Smart (Bitter)
Spice Mix - Fire
Fresh Cream - Fairy
Packaged Curry - Electric
Coconut Milk - Ice
Instant Noodles - Neutral
Precooked Burger - Ground

For ingredients that correspond to Contest Category, Compatible Moves will be awarded +1 extra Point, and Incompatible Moves will be docked -1. (Ex: Using a "Cool" Move with a base of four Appeal Points will add +5 to a Spicy dish, "Beautiful" or "Tough" Moves with the same base Appeal will add +4, and "Clever" or "Cute" Moves +3.)

For ingredients that correspond to Type, the same principle applies with SE Moves receiving +1 extra Point, and NFE Moves -1, where Points are defined by Base Power**:

1 Point = <50 BP
2 Points = 50-59 BP
3 Points = 60-69 BP
4 Points = 70-89 BP
6 Points = 90+ BP

**Status Moves receive a blanket 3 Points

6) RP is encouraged, but not required. However, RPing a post of at least 50 words will add +1 bonus Point to the total score, for a maximum bonus of +10 (if a full squad of five) incorporating both rounds. For replies that reach the standard 150 words, you may also claim Cash and Bond for any Pokémon that were involved. Feel free to be as inventive as you want with the setting and materials, and to interact with your fellow campmates. Creativity is always welcome!
7) The quality grades of the final Curry will be counted as follows:

Koffing Class: 10-19
Wobbuffet Class: 20-29
Milcery Class: 30-39
Copperajah Class: 40-49
Charizard Class: 50+

Note: Only one Pokémon from each member's team can collect the full benefits from the Curry, though you may RP other teammates eating if you wish.


A reminder as I was writing/compiling everything I realized we hadn't actually agreed on what each tier awards so... Suggestions, anyone? ^^; lol
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Old 06-29-2021, 12:30 AM   #63
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Okay, so while I do like the general idea of this it... comes off as nothing shy of incredibly complicated, something we should really be trying to avoid if at all possible. Now, this might be just a matter of how I'm reading it, but if I as a mod can read through a system and have absolutely no idea what I'm expecting to get out of something prior to getting to the rewards, it probably needs some touching up in wording at the bare minimum.

To that end, let's address a few questions that come most immediately when I look at this and try to hash out wording the system appropriately.

1. How are participant groups determined?
We want this to simultaneously make sure we have this being fair and prevent cliques but also avoid running into the same issue we are beginning to see with Raids where some people can't participate at all with others due to not being able to go with the general plan laid out for the group.

2. How does Neutral (Instant Noodles) work when gaining points?
This just needs an explicit statement so people know what they are getting into.

3. Before we get into reward tiers, we need to have an established baseline. Please provide the following examples so we know what numbers look like for both flavor and total ranking:
a. A group coming pre-prepared with a full batch of same flavor berries, moves that fit the base ingredient, and are doing full roleplay.
b. A group that is not co-ordinating AT ALL and are bringing largely contradicting berries, do not have suitable moves for the base ingredients, and are not roleplaying at all.
c. A group that is a middle ground of sorts, providing a fair bit of similar berries, usable moves, and are doing some role playing but not the maximum point worth, let's say half the group doing the bare minimum to collect cash and bond
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Old 06-29-2021, 01:36 AM   #64
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1. How many participants are able to throw berries into the batch?
This needs a direct answer because if the answer is "as many as they want" it runs the same risk we currently see with Raids, people planning to run a pot for what an individual group wants to do for the month that prevents people from jumping in to participate without risking messing up what others are doing. Conversely, if the group is set to a limited number per curry, splitting the groups needs to have a pre-determined way to occur in order to be fair.
I was thinking it'd be similar to the Growing Shadows where any number of people can join, and once the sign-up window closes are randomly assigned to relatively even groups - though if people want to request certain partners/form their own groups I'm fine with allowing that as an option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneaze View Post
2. How does Neutral (Instant Noodles) work when gaining points?
This just needs an explicit statement so people know what they are getting into.
Noted, will add that in. This was basically just a rough draft gathering all the comments as written so far so there's certainly room for further clarification and refinement.

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3. Before we get into reward tiers, we need to have an established baseline. Please provide the following examples so we know what numbers look like for both flavor and total ranking:
a. A group coming pre-prepared with a full batch of same flavor berries, moves that fit the base ingredient, and are doing full roleplay.
b. A group that is not co-ordinating AT ALL and are bringing largely contradicting berries, do not have suitable moves for the base ingredients, and are not roleplaying at all.
c. A group that is a middle ground of sorts, providing a fair bit of similar berries, usable moves, and are doing some role playing but not the maximum point worth, let's say half the group doing the bare minimum to collect cash and bond
Tbh I wasn't planning on policing "effort"/"coordination" that closely, and kinda gets into what I dislike about the "Raid mentality" approach. All the "rules" and numbers are really just window dressing IMO, and are only there to make things easier on the Updator's end, as the intent isn't to make players calculate the most precise effective strategy possible. (In fact I considered leaving out most of the detailed explanations from the OP altogether to avoid making things seem overly complicated/confusing - same as Raid calcs are kept under wraps unless someone's savvy enough to figure them out anyway - but left them in for transparency.) I'd rather simply see this as a "Free RP" exercise, and started writing the flavor text thinking it'd also serve as a revival of the Fizzytopian Park like how the Bar and Trainers' Nightclub were brought back recently - until I realized we do still technically have an existing thread in TO (thus used it as inspiration). So like, if people want to carry on storylines and such they can do so there as well. I'd like to encourage RP and player interaction but not force it either, if that makes sense. Just let folks do so naturally if they choose to.



But yeah, the way the system is set up right now, you'd have to be trying really hard to fail. But if people do want more challenging elements then we can definitely adjust the scale accordingly. I do agree one shouldn't expect to just coast along and benefit off of others' input, so... I'll have to think about it some more how to handle that aspect.
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Old 07-10-2021, 06:59 PM   #65
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The mods are discussing this as a concept, as an update.

We very much like the idea but feel things may be a little too complicated. As such we will be discussing how to simplify this a bit while keeping the spirit of it in tact. Feel free to bring up any ideas you may have here in order to get your opinions in.
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Old 07-10-2021, 07:30 PM   #66
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I'd like to point out my original proposal was just to base "point totals" off of the Berries themselves, and then people can do whatever the hell they want for flavor. The idea of adding in several extra steps threw me for a loop, and in trying to keep up with that more complex concept I think things have gotten bogged down with attempts to codify the "mechanics".

The way I see it, I'd rather this simply be something in between "shop simulation" and Raids/Secret Bases, like the mostly "hands-off" monthly Gym membership training - but with an option of free RP benefits added. With the new rule changes in effect that in itself might also encourage folks to RP on their own, but it's not something I initially planned to enforce in any way, nor keep a close eye on how effective their "strategies" are (individually or as a group).
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Old 07-10-2021, 08:45 PM   #67
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My main idea would be along the lines of specific berry flavour points only matter for determining the dominant flavour. All curry in one cycle (month or whatever) would give the same basic benefits to everyone across the board. You would be able to get additional benefits from RPing, but RP will not change curry quality. I like the concept of the split in two phases, a prep stage and a cooking stage, with two rounds of RP. As such, I'd also say each trainer should be able to feed Curry to up to 2 Pokemon, to allow use of different Pokemon each round. For timeframes, my idea would be a one month cycle. Curry Campsite opens on the 14th, each round is one week. We have things that launch early in the month like raids, so starting around the midway point of a month would give people something to do in the month's latter half

Base rewards would be low. I'm no balancer, so this isn't specific, but vague ideas for those better at balancing to work with
Curry itself: Something like 1 level and 2 Bond to up to 2 Pokemon. If you want to make it more interesting, maybe the specific special ingredient chosen for the cycle will have different benefits than others (I would not know how to balance that), and what you'd get that cycle would be shown in the opening post for that cycle
RPing: Base zone money and Bond rewards, though you can only collect RP Bond for one Pokemon per round. Additionally, each round, you may claim an additional reward for 1 Pokemon RPd with if they helped with that round (could be something like a level probably, maybe an EM if that's not too far?). Claimable when Curry benefits are
Berry sink: More berries in the pot means there's more to eat. Each trainer gets 2 helpings for participating, but those who put berries in the pot can get more servings. basic idea I had was 2 Berries = 1 additional serving, so you can throw in up to 8 Berries so an entire party of six can get the benefits (one serving per Pokemon). Alternatively, if you want to make it more gatekept, 2 Berries gets you your 2 helpings, additional Berries can be thrown in to earn more

As for groups, I'm not sure we'd even need to have them. Grouping can get sticky and potentially cliquey.

This is mostly just a bit of spitball for ideas.
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Old 07-18-2021, 02:43 AM   #68
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We like the base idea of the berries being the primary factor in determining points and the monthly ingredients being flavor is the direction we want to go. We'd like to see curry expanded on this specifically, as well as making sure that it is a proper berry sink. We want to see it so that people won't have a net berry gain if they're doing both raids and curry in a month. Besides from that, no other major restrictions need. We want to make sure curry is a simplistic, role play-centric berry dump that allows people to interact with their Pokemon in a fun way and get rewarded for it.
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Old 07-29-2022, 07:06 PM   #69
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Mods have discussed curry, and have reached a decision that curry as a system will not function within the game. We are planning on implementing contest stats in other ways, but for now are putting our foot down on this.
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