05-08-2018, 09:39 AM | #76 |
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Alright, so we're finally here. It's time for me to ask some important questions about these legendaries I'm nearing time to capture.
Spoiler: show Current game progress since last post: I got to enjoy all of those cool movie files and I'm currently having wormhole travel explained to me by Dulse and Zossie. Seems like I'm about to do that once I resume playing.
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05-08-2018, 10:36 AM | #77 |
The Uncultured One
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You cannot skip the Blacephalons. It's both in one go.
Natures I think are always determined upon initiation of battle. Resetting/going back for them shouldn't affect natures. The only forced legend captures all game iirc are Null and the two Blacephalons. Everything else either has no legend captures or can be ignored and left for later. Yes Null's not an actual legendary but it's a one-shot mon so same boat. It's also unmissable if you do the postgame.
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05-08-2018, 12:02 PM | #78 | |
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Solgaleo's nature isn't locked in until you battle and catch it, and battling it isn't mandatory to progress the story, and is actually kinda out of the way. So you can take your time with that and prepare as you need to. As for Poipole, the nature isn't locked in until you actually accept it, so you absolutely can just decline it at first and return later on to claim it. You can even reset for a Shiny should you so desire. And as a gift Pokémon, Synchronize will always work on it, too. |
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05-08-2018, 12:22 PM | #79 |
我が名は勇者王!
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Spoooooooooooiler.
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05-08-2018, 09:01 PM | #80 |
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More progress. It's getting spoilery, so ... I guess I should place most of it inside of a spoiler tag.
Spoiler: show Current progress: partially done with a certain person's multi-part trial. Was so bothered by the loss of two of my favorite scenes from Sun and Moon that I had to vent. ^^;
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05-08-2018, 09:36 PM | #81 |
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When you said you were using amies, I knew you were going to win with them. It's a real pity, because of all the "cheese" people throw about with regard to winning that fight, nothing is more BS than an amie roll or a critical hit. I wish GameFreak will remove it already, but since it's a kid's glove kind of crutch I doubt they will. People only get mad when crits go against them, not the other way.
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05-09-2018, 08:17 AM | #82 |
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I did manage to beat Ultra Necrozma without affection bonuses once. It was when I did my mono-Poison run through Ultra Moon. I knew I'd really need to plan for that fight as I wasn't using Pokémon Refresh at all.
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05-09-2018, 03:54 PM | #83 |
The Uncultured One
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See, in most fights I'd agree. But in the Ultra Necrozma fight, I'd have to say that it's the only time where Pokemon-Amie RNG stuff felt like it belonged. You're fighting something that's far stronger than your team, with the fate of the world on the line. You team is giving it everything and then some: barely hanging on through lethal strikes to deliver those desperate attacks, landing clutch criticals in the one battle where it means the most. This is the pinnacle of the game. You are fighting a creature so powerful that it may as well be a deity, and yet you and your team - your friends - are the only ones who can stop it from destroying your world. This is the time for the Amie boosts, because it doesn't feel like you're cheesing it- it actually feels natural for once.
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05-09-2018, 05:49 PM | #84 |
我が名は勇者王!
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There can be no ultimate boss when the player cannot be defeated.
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05-10-2018, 11:17 AM | #85 |
The Uncultured One
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You can be defeated though, and quite easily. Amie shit is never guaranteed, and if anything is more likely to not happen than it is to actually do anything. It's still coming down to the player's squad vs that thing, and woe betide you if you're inadequately prepared, because Ultra Necrozma is the one point in the game where getting a full squad of six wiped is actually feasible.
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05-10-2018, 12:03 PM | #86 |
我が名は勇者王!
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Accuracy/evasion, secondary effect triggers, crits and amies are the only true "luck" dependent variables in Pokemon that are outside of any player or developer's control. Of those, nothing influences game outcomes more than accuracy/evasion checks or amie focus bands.
Dodging 100% accuracy moves and pulling focus bands without drawback, and potentially without limit, breaks the game. And that is why amies are routinely banned from nuzlockes. Like I said, Talon can't have it both ways. He can't have the boss fight he wants while also using the single most momentum changing mechanic ever introduced in Pokemon. It's setting yourself up for disappointment.
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05-10-2018, 12:20 PM | #87 |
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The onus isn't on me to handicap myself. The onus is on the developer to make a properly challenging game. I'm with Mcsweeney (re: Fire Emblem) on this one: if the developer puts it in the game for me to use, I am going to use it.
In the case of friendship, a) flavorfully it is righteous and b) advantageously I mostly am in it for the EXP gains so I don't have to grind. I could do without the evasion boosts, the status heals, and of course the Focus Bands. They're convenient, insofar as this children's game is already not challenging and they mitigate further time-wasting nuisances. But they are objectively in the way of rectifying the game to make it, when optimally played, properly challenging. As for yours and Iron's argument, I am 50/50. I like Iron's romantic interpretation better, but I agree with you that the cheese ruins what is meant to be (and could have otherwise been) a horrifying fight. Flavor-wise I say Iron wins. Gameplay-wise I say you win. It's tough. As you say, "you can't have your cake and eat it, too." I think that if friendship could not be easily gotten via two Rainbow Beans plus one massage session, that it would make for a more compelling gameplay case. I don't see a problem with Double Teaming your way to victory any more than I do Cosmic Powering it. So if you're going to say that other strategies are legitimate ways of rendering the impossible possible, then I would say that we shouldn't object to someone who pictures their Pokémon the Flash and uses Double Team to "Can't hit me!" win battles. Smogon dislikes it for the RNG -- but if someone is willing to accept the tails in Story Mode, why can't he be allowed to aim for the heads? The developers put it in there. It's meant to be used.
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05-10-2018, 02:04 PM | #88 | ||
我が名は勇者王!
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It isn't just one-off effect, it's three checks that roll every turn. You have six Pokemon, and in the best case scenario Ultra Necrozma only has to pass two checks six times. A wild Pokemon has a limited number of tools to combat a player with a full team + items. Smart Strike allows him to bypass Double Team or the evasion amie, and Photon Geyser will bypass Sturdy and Disguise. But because of the AI limitations, Ultra Necrozma doesn't always use these moves optimally.
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05-11-2018, 04:13 AM | #89 |
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I beat Pokémon Ultra Sun.
Completion Time: 60 hours, 51 minutes. Final Team: Incineroar "Madara" * Lv.67 (M) * Darkest Lariat, Flare Blitz, Cross Chop, Outrage * Blaze * Incinium Z Lycanroc Dusk Forme "Luvia" * Lv.70 (F) * Happy Hour, Stone Edge, Crunch, Fire Fang * Tough Claws * Amulet Coin Araquanid "Shelob" * Lv.65 (F) * Liquidation, Leech Life, Crunch, Poison Jab * Water Bubble * Waterium Z Shiinotic "Shii" * Lv.67 (F) * Giga Drain, Moonblast, Spore, Dream Eater * Effect Spore * Grassium Z Vikavolt "Dazzler" * Lv.63 (F) * Thunderbolt, Bug Buzz, Air Slash, Flash Cannon * Levitate * Buginium Z Alolan Ninetales "Inari" * Lv.73 (F) * Freeze-Dry, Moonblast, Nasty Plot, Aurora Veil * Snow Warning * Light Clay Money: $1,623,334 (over $500,000 of which came from the Elite Four) Victory Road: it's slightly different from SM's. I accidentally found Icium Z and Ice Beam when playing Sun, whereas when playing Ultra Sun I was deliberately on the lookout for them and walked right on by the path that takes you to them. I would never have known they were there in USUM had it not been for my prior knowledge from SM. Also, of course, there's a certain visitor to be navigated around per our earlier discussions. The Elite Four: if SM's quartet is flawed, then USUM's is perhaps even moreso. But it's not necessarily what you think. Spoiler: show I was very impressed by the difficulty. Foresaking challenge for expediency, I was forced to break a lot of my own personal house rules for Elite Four challenges. Out the door almost instantly was flirtation with Set battle rules instead of Switch. That didn't happen. Next to go was my typical rule against using any items in between E4 battles. I break this rule a lot, but I tend to try to stick to it when challenging an E4 for the very first time. Memorably stuck to this rule with Gens 5a, 5b, and 6. Anyway, using items in between E4s is surely better than using them mid-battle ... right? Right? Well, that's my cardinal rule for E4 challenges -- no item usage mid-battle -- and that rule got broken right away too. ... That stated, an ugly little truth reared its head pretty quickly once I got past the first two Elite Four members: Spoiler: show This aside, I still want to credit the developers for producing a genuinely challenging Elite Four. The award for hardest E4 ever still goes to Black & White 1's, but USUM has done a fine job here of producing an authentic challenge for Story Moders. The Champion: What's the same from SM and what's different? Spoiler: show Lillie: Spoiler: show Tapu Koko fight: DELETED! Good. Not even going to spoiler box this one, because the people have to be told: that annoying-as-fuck mid-credit boss battle has been removed from USUM. Good riddance! You can go and get Tapu Koko later when you're good and ready for him. Ending Credits: I much prefer SM's photo album and Hawaiian chant song to USUM's throwback to GSC+HGSS's ending credits. Visually and acoustically, it reminds me a lot of those games'. But it's inferior to what SM gave us. Really not sure why they opted for this downgrade. ... Though this is a bit mean, as I do prefer one or two versions better here: Spoiler: show Suddenly Zygarde: OH DON'T YOU TRY AND PRETEND LIKE HE SUDDENLY MATTERS NOW! We both know you're full of shit and that he was shoehorned into SM to begin with. That's about all I've got. Now it's time for some narrative loose ends, Rainbow Rocket, and breeding.
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05-11-2018, 09:54 AM | #90 |
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Isn't that the appeal, though? Kukui didn't have a wide selection pool for the E4 so the final product is an almost ad hoc assembly of competent battlers. But it's made personal by almost all of them being people you already know really well.
Spoiler: show
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05-11-2018, 02:57 PM | #92 |
我が名は勇者王!
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Kukui strikes me as a "man of two worlds". One, he's a native son of Alola (which gives him immense influence) and is widely considered to be part of its bright future. Two, he's actually competed in the Indigo Pokemon League and feels that Alola needs to get with the times without losing its cultural identity. So you have mixed feelings on him building a league: while no one is explicitly against it, only a few like Guzma feel very strongly for it. There was some push back at building the league on Mount Lanakila, which effectively put an end to the Final Trial which did involve a gauntlet against the four kahunas.
I can imagine Kukui would have trouble finding trainers who are 1) strong enough to be a competent Elite 4 and 2) are willing to actually fill in the position. That's a lot of changes to happen in a short time to a very traditional society. And while the kahunas are definitely strong trainers, we can't forget that they are similar to Gym Leaders from other regions, and everyone you meet on Victory Road has already beaten the other four island trials. There's a pretty big gulf in power between normal Elite Four and Gym Leaders, so if the kahunas are last choices or off-limits, there needs to be some creativity to fill the position of both Champion + E4. That's the impression I got from USUM over SM. Kukui was able to convince someone strong to take the position, so he didn't have to rely on a kahuna as filler. And this E4 are all native to or live in Alola, so it feels more organic than simply calling in strong trainer from other regions to fill in.
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05-11-2018, 11:51 PM | #93 | ||||||
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Yes!
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I think Kukui's pride is in the Alolan people rather than in Alolan culture. That's not to say that he's self-loathing or that he otherwise holds Alolan culture in disdain. He doesn't. Let me repeat that: I, Talon87, believe that Kukui does indeed love Alola and its culture. But what I am trying to also say is that ... I think when he speaks of wanting to show the world the supremacy of ____, we have to fill in the blank with "Alolans" much more often than we would "Alolan ways". Kukui's like a man from a small, ignored-by-the-world-powers nation who loves his people and wants them to command respect on the world stage. I think for Kukui it's much less about getting the rest of the world to eat Alolan food, wear Alolan dress, or listen to Alolan song than it is about getting the rest of the world to admire, fear, and/or respect trainers from Alola. It's less "I want Alola to be loved" and more "I want Alola to be taken seriously." At least, that's what I get from him. I dunno. My opinions are subject to change. I feel like I haven't cemented in my view on Kukui just yet. That it will probably undergo at least some degree of change over the course of the next 5-10 years. We'll see. (Guzma's "Trust me. I get that" at Kukui speaks volumes about Kukui's attitude towards tradition. The very fact that Guzma says something like this, Quote:
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Spoiler: show
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05-12-2018, 01:04 AM | #94 | |||
我が名は勇者王!
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I forgot Guzma's line, I'll have to retract that it's basically Kukui (in the game) who is super gung ho about it. And, it's pretty ironic that Guzma would be tsundere toward the idea of the league since I think he ends up liking it better. Quote:
E4 always hit you with their best, as does the champion, and the Gym Leaders don't bring out their A-teams unless rematches are allowed. That said, perhaps you're more correct in this regard: if Kukui wants to wipe away the vestiges of the old regime, he can't call upon the kahuna's strength as the E4, he needs new faces to draw a line in the sand that the league is a different animal. But if he doesn't use the kahunas, he might not be able to draw enough respect for the league. I doubt this though considering how many veterans and aces answered Kukui's call to Victory Road to impede the player's path. He's massively popular and influential, without the benefit of many knowing he's also Masked Royal. Quote:
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05-12-2018, 08:42 AM | #95 | |||
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Hakunas: Elite Four that, for the first time in the history of the games, you actually get to encounter at the 25%, 50%, 75%, and 99% markers instead of only getting to encounter at the 100% marker at the very end of the game. Trial Captains: Gym Leaders that, for the first time in the history of the games, you don't actually fight them personally but rather their trials' Totem Pokémon The trial captains still have teams of their own. You fight a number of them during Mina's trial (USUM), but even in the post-game (SM; also USUM?) they are available to be fought. These teams are much more in keeping with a Gym Leader's than an Elite Four's; frequently small (three to four Pokémon tops), typed to match the type of the trial site and its totem .... Each gym leader you defeat awards you a TM and a gym badge; each trial captain you defeat awards you Think about it. The anime likes to have Ash's travel buddies / companions be protagonists and gym leaders. In the history of the games there's never been a memorable gym trainer; fans remember random trainers like Trainer Joey or the I Like Shorts kid better than they do GTs. So the anime gives Ash:
Think about this, too. Let's say I'm right and Acerola's a Gym Leader equivalent. It's already a stretch, then, to expect her to fill the shoes of a regional Elite Four -- but not beyond belief. In our fandom, we can imagine that "a particularly skilled gym leader might be promoted to become an Elite Four." Now let's say you're right and Acerola's only a Gym Trainer equivalent. ... You expect me to believe that:
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05-12-2018, 09:05 AM | #96 |
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Bulbapedia's take:
Trial Captain: "a person who designs and presides over a certain island challenge trial and gives guidance to participating Trainers. All of the Trial Captains have previously completed their own island challenge a few years prior. They retire from their position when they turn 20. Like Gym Leaders, they specialize in certain types of Pokémon. They can be identified by the flower-shaped adornment they wear someplace on their bodies, each with a different colored jewel to represent their specialized type. In Pokémon Sun and Moon, there are seven Trial Captains who each preside over a trial in the island challenge, although as shown by the Vast Poni Canyon trial, a trial can exist in a functional form without a Captain to preside over it." Kahuna: "a person who presides over a certain island challenge in the Alola region. Island kahunas serve as the final obstacle in that particular island's trial and battle a Trainer in a Grand Trial. There is one kahuna for each of the four main islands of Alola, with each one chosen by that island's guardian deity. In addition to presiding over an island, they are also in charge of tending to their guardian's ruins when necessary and selecting new Trial Captains for their island. Prior to the establishment of the Alolan Pokémon League, a Trainer attempting their island challenge who had finished all of their trials and grand trials was to scale Mount Lanakila and battle all four kahunas in a row in order to become an island challenge champion." "According to Acerola, a person chosen to be an island kahuna cannot refuse the position; in this case, she was referring to Nanu. A kahuna's reign lasts until they die, as was the case with Hapu's grandfather and predecessor, or are forcibly ejected from their position by their respective guardian deity, as was with the case with a former unspecified kahuna who established the gang that Team Skull drew inspiration from. The time in between an island kahuna's exit from their position and the naming of a new one is not always immediate — following the death of Hapu's grandfather, Poni Island was left without a kahuna for several years." "It is unknown how the lack of a kahuna affects the island challenge, specifically the assignment of Trial Captains and the final trial. In Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, Poni Island's sole Trial Captain, Mina, says that a kahuna from one of the other islands has to substitute for an island without one in order to allow that island's grand trials to be conducted — a role Nanu had to play prior to Hapu's crowning. However, Mina does not mention who selected her to be a Trial Captain." For me, the most relevant bits are: Trial Captain: "Like Gym Leaders" Kahuna: "Prior to the establishment of the Alolan Pokémon League, a Trainer attempting their island challenge who had finished all of their trials and grand trials was to scale Mount Lanakila and battle all four kahunas in a row in order to become an island challenge champion." If I can't persuade you that Trial Captains are analogous to Gym Leaders, I'll be damned if I can't persuade you that the hakunas were Alola's very own Elite Four.
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05-12-2018, 09:27 AM | #97 | |
The Uncultured One
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05-12-2018, 09:57 AM | #98 |
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Indeed! But a mere Gym Trainer promoted to Elite Four? Unheard of.
(There's always a first time for everything! But I remain entirely unconvinced that Acerola went from GT to E4 rather than from GL to E4.) Some additional food for thought, Doppel: in the history of the franchise, a GT has never been given a unique character design. Unique character designs are reserved only for Gym Leaders and above. All of Alola's Trial Captains? Unique character designs.
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05-12-2018, 12:28 PM | #99 | |||||
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Anyway, island challenge champion is not similar to Pokemon League Champion at all. For one, you only have to beat the four kahunas to do it, and multiple (implied to be anyone of age) people can do it. While in all leagues (including the newly minted Alola one) you have to face the champion or a champion-like entity after the Elite Four, and then take the champion's place. And that segways into the next important point - the island challenge is something like a bar mitzvah, that everyone of age in this specific group undertakes. Captains can't be older than 18, and you start your challenge at age 11. Those ages bookend "adolescence" very nicely, give or take a few years. There's no single reigning island challenge champion, and many former champions, a phenomenon that doesn't happen in regions with a league. This is why I originally considered the power level of kahunas to be lower than typical E4. If there were prior champions in the pokemon league, it's usually shown by the in the game events and you never see random NPCs tell you of their time as the league champion. I don't think the island challenge was designed to be easy, but it helps explain Guzma's negative sentiment if it's an intentionally passable test that he outright failed. Quote:
But trial captains hand out both a TM AND A Z-CRYSTAL...you are on to something here, but I don't think it's a very strong parallel. You beat the island challenge, so your reward needs to come from someone, somewhere. The authority figure in charge of the challenge is the natural source for such a reward. Also, on the Dragon Trial, my suspicion is Ryuujerk is supposed to be the captain for that, but he went delinquent since there wasn't a kahuna on Poni Island? Someone had to train the Totem Kommo-o. He is as good a candidate as any. Quote:
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05-13-2018, 12:20 AM | #100 | ||
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The thing is, you seem to insinuate there that "Champion = a greater battler than an Elite Four member", which is a perfectly fine insinuation on the face of it! And yet my mind immediately turns to It's strange, isn't it? Because I am so ready to agree with you -- I think we all are! -- that a League Champion must, by definition of his consecutive victories, be a greater trainer than any of the Elite Four individually are. As after all: they only have to beat one of you, but you have to beat all four of them, in a row! Surely yours is the more impressive feat, and so much so that it enshrines you as their superior should you happen to pull it off. And yet ... and yet a dethroned Champion has no guarantees of anything within the league headquarters' halls, whereas a "mere" Gym Leader can become a semi-permanent member of the Elite Four. Perhaps we can have an explanation as follows: Blue/Green would have otherwise wanted the position as an Elite Four member, but he doesn't want to be a part of Red's council, "subservient to Red", so he rejects the appointment and accepts the next best thing (the prestigious Viridian City Gym Leader position) which allows him to wait for Red's return from hermitage and to challenge his rival for the Champion's throne at that time. But this is all speculation and fanonny (EHH? EHHH? ), without anything concrete to really work off of. Quote:
We get this ... and for some reason, it's the Gen 6 was a step in the right direction with Malva. I'm not saying "you gotta have 'em be involved with {specific faction}", but rather, I expect them to be involved on one side or another in the goings-on in their region. One thing I had really hoped to get out of a Pokémon Z was seeing Siebold and the others' reactions to Malva's involvement with Flare. I wanted to see how they rationalized her decisions, if they defended her at all, or how they rationalized condemning her beliefs whilst agreeing to work alongside her. Did they know the truth all along and ostracize her? Did they know the truth and remain friends with her? Were they utterly ignorant? (I could see that being the case for Wikstrom. #ethan ) I hope to see, in Generation 8 and in future games, more character development for our Elite Four. They've been doing a decent job of it with the Champion for a long while now. (Steven Stone, good. Cynthia, even better. Alder, just as good if not as popular. Diantha, ditto Alder, maybe slightly less well done but also slightly more popular. And then of course ditto Kukui.) They've also been trying to do a good job of it with the highest ranking members of the criminal organization in each game for a long time now. (Starting with the man himself, Giovanni, but also extending to Silver, Maxie/Archie, Cyrus, N, Ghetsis, and so on.) But Malva's the first and last time they introduced us to a new Elite Four member and then made her a living, breathing part of the world we explored long prior to our actually getting to battle her. Malva's also notably the only time in the history of the games that an E4 or Champion has been a member of the criminal team. It doesn't have to be that. You don't have to give us Malva Redux. But at the very least, give us an Elite Four who seem to actually be the defenders of their realm. Quit making them caged birds who despite boasting "phenomenal cosmic power" seem to only have "itty bitty living space" within which to roam and no further. I'm rambling now. But hmm. Lot of food for thought you've given me here. Alright, time for a double post because I've got a question I want answers to ASAP.
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