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Old 01-12-2015, 09:18 AM   #3801
Emi
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The Kyurem-B calcs aren't altered. I just did it right now, unlike someone.
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:06 AM   #3802
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...I think he's referring to the Stealth Rock damage and Leftovers, though I dearly hope not.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:25 AM   #3803
Jerichi
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Myles please at least make an attempt to listen to what people are telling you. I know you like running unique sets and stuff and that's cool, but talking about the entire OU meta from the perspective of sub 1300 (or even really sub 1500) is not actually meaningful. Having an opinion is totally fine but if you're going to put stuff forward as fact or viable strategy without calcs or replays over 1500 isn't really going to convince anyone.
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Old 01-12-2015, 12:04 PM   #3804
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Altaria

Watch me pull a clutch win after meeting a Leech Seed Contrary Serperior \o/
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W(DQ)- 22(3) L(DQ)-14(0)
KO-55
TP-131 SP- 64.5/96.5 (5SP to Deh, 5SP to FW, 5SP to Desert Spirit, 8.5SP to Fallen Icarus, 10SP to Kyro12, 8SP to Charminions, 10 to aposteriori)
SHUCKS I GOTTA FIX THIS SOMETIME
~TL3~

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Credits to Charm for making this!


Come, my birdies!!!! Mwahahahaha!!!!!!


Thanks Pingu for being so nice and making me this~


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Be Positive Ref~ I <3 you, Lonely Cubone and those who eval'd me~
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Old 01-12-2015, 12:20 PM   #3805
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Hooray for Daisy making this thread 20% cooler~
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PASBL Record
Trainer Level: 5
Referee Grade: B
Wins (DQ): 51 (5) Losses (DQ): 27 (6) Draws: 3
KOs: 135 TP: 294 SP (Earned): 0 (0)

Anime Style Battling | Fizzy Bubbles | Wild Future
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Old 01-12-2015, 12:44 PM   #3806
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Parasect's Heroic Last Stand (Me vs Daisy, Gen I Random Battle)
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Old 01-12-2015, 07:52 PM   #3807
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Checkov's Will O Wisp wins the day
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:09 PM   #3808
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Victini How to Kill Your Oppnent's Greninja

Hey kids! Wanna beat the shit out of Greninja? Rhetorical question, I know you do. I'll show you how!

What you'll need:

Dragonite
Yache Berry
Dragon Dance
Iron Head (and Iron Head specifically. Trust me, opting for Iron Tail is an unnecessary gamble.)
Two other moves of your choosing for when the frog is dead, preferably some STAB and a high power non-contact physical attack. I usually opt for Dragon Claw and Earthquake, as both have 100% accuracy and deal massive damage after a Dance.
Adamant Nature

So here's how the flow of battle goes:

OH SHIT ITS THE FROG, handle this, Dragonite!
lol what are you doing. Greninja, Ice Beam!
Dragonite loses 50.7-57% HP! What what-
Dragonite used Dragon Dance!

Okay, your opponent knows what's next, Outrage, right? Well, let's say that they stay in anyway. You now outspeed Greninja (unless the frog has a scarf), and can now deliver this right to its face:

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 408-480 (143.1 - 168.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(408, 412, 416, 422, 426, 432, 436, 440, 446, 450, 456, 460, 464, 470, 474, 480)

Before you say anything about me getting that HP EV wrong, be reminded that 4 EVs increases a stat by about one point if I recall correctly. 407 is still an OHKO, folks. And that's if you get the worst roll. And yes, this is coming off of last turn's Ice Beam making the frog Ice typed.

What's nice about using Iron Head here is that if Greninja decides to run the hell away and call a Fairy for help, expecting an Outrage, the Fairy is getting smacked instead for some brutal damage. But now the frog is back and it's water typed. Now what, Marty McFly? Well...

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 255-300 (89.1 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
(255, 258, 261, 264, 267, 270, 273, 276, 279, 282, 285, 288, 291, 294, 297, 300)

Bolded above are outputs that kill a Greninja after it has taken Life Orb Recoil. With Life Orb Recoil at an exact 10%, Greninja's HP is at a point where you would need the LOWEST POSSIBLE DAMAGE ROLL to NOT KO here. But let's say you're Bad Luck Brian and you ALWAYS get the worst roll:

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 306-360 (106.9 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(306, 309, 312, 316, 319, 324, 327, 330, 334, 337, 342, 345, 348, 352, 355, 360)

Problem solved.

In the end, you have beaten Greninja's face in, taking out something that pro-level people thought was too broken for OU, and gotten yourself a Danced Dragonite in the process. Satisfied? Also, you can insert Dragonite quoting "Just who the hell do you think I am!?!?" Before killing the frog if you want.

----------------------------

Okay, so this obviously isn't 100% foolproof. I live on the low ladder, and know that people do funky shit that can screw you up, so here's some of the pitfalls, however stupid they may seem to you on a Greninja set, though some come from outside support members of the opposing team. What you see may surprise you:

Choice Scarf: This one is the least unreasonable, to be honest, it's understandable. But here's how to test for it and neuter it:

Test the waters: Weavile. Weavile's high Attack and wide variety of physical coverage makes it a great physical attacker and usable for many other things besides this. However, it naturally outspeeds Greninja by a small margin, allowing it to do this scout duty without sacrificing any moves or using Scarf. If the frog outruns you Unboosted, SCARF ALERT! Prepare the neuter machine!

Neuter: ...and by the neuter machine I mean the washing machine. Take your standard Choice Trick Rotom-W and replace the Scarf with a Band. Take the Scarf off the frog with Trick, switch out, and ready yourself for later distribution to some other poor soul. Yes, that powers up Gunk Shot. Yes, you can still run Steels to deal with that. If Greninja runs away before Trick? Rotom has still done its usual shtick because whatever came in is now choiced. Choiced a physical attacker? You did remember Will O Wisp, right?

Focus Sash: Not too far fetched but rare as hell. Unfortunately, Sash is something I don't have an answer for, but Greninja will be left with 1 HP after Dragonite's finished with it. This would be a prime time for something with priority to finish the job.

Stealth Rock: Unfortunately, Multiscale is crucial, but Stealth Rock removes it from play. A good spinner or Defogger keeping the field clear solves this one. Try to integrate Rapid Spin or Defog into a set with some other purpose that has synergy with the chosen method of hazard removal so that you're not just a lame duck. Come on, you top 10 people can do this, I know you can. Taunt works as well, though I'd recommend Prankster with that because Smeargle is an annoying thing. Hell, make Smeargle your Defogger!

Burns: That other annoying thing. Normal Dance sets have Lum to deal with this but we can't afford that. However, this is a much more controllable thing, so my advice is to just keep Dragonite away from anything with Scald or Will o Wisp before the opponent's Greninja is down. If things happen, you can put Aromatherapy on your Defogger Smeargle if you have room left. Spore, Stealth Rock, Defog/Rapid Spin, Aromatherapy, perfect D-Nite supporter.

Babiri Berry: I said some stuff may surprise you, right? Well, your opponent is an actual psychic and knew before they hit the find a battle button exactly how you were countering the frog, countered that, and you had no chance of winning to begin with because they've seen your whole team with their psychic powers and have countered it flawlessly. Okay, a bit of an exaggeration, but you're more likely to find Chople, Roseli, or Wacan than this. However, there is no answer to this, no possible way to scout it out under non-extreme circumstances, and even under extreme circumstances its single use nature makes the effort meaningless. Just hand your opponent the Monado Award and leave.

Hax: Because sometimes they get that lucky crit or freeze. This is a part of Pokemon, always has been, always will be. Nothing you can do.

And that concludes this tutorial. Hope you enjoyed!
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:16 PM   #3809
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So...instead of a counter you've found a one-shot check?

Okay I guess.
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:17 PM   #3810
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Regrettably only a check by definition, however, it's simple to use and multi-purpose as well, which I really like about it.
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:20 PM   #3811
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My main issue is there is a reason no one opted to run Iron Head in the first place when Fairies were revealed. It's coverage is ass and makes it easily walled by several Pokemon.
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:24 PM   #3812
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Well, yes, but it hits both Ice and Fairy for SE, and most people when they see a dancing DNite are going to expect an Outrage. Iron Head gets the best of the situation whether they stay in or go to a Fairy. Remember that stuff like Ferrothorn is gonna have to deal with special Fire types waiting in the wings. It's essentially that element of surprise that makes this so effective against the frog.
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:25 PM   #3813
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Whether you have Iron Head for that is irrelevant though. You were just better off using Iron Head in the first place instead of DDing, because no Greninja is staying in against a +1 Dragonite, and Iron Head isn't going to help against the many numerous Steel types that can wall him.

EDIT: Like I get the idea of a lure, but you don't lure in a Greninja with a Dragonite. You lure in a Gliscor with a Tyranitar, something that will counter you.
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:29 PM   #3814
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So what I'm getting out of this is that your personal team is:

Dragonite
Weavile
Rotom-W
Defogger/Rapid Spinner
"special Fire type"
sixth member
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:30 PM   #3815
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Yeah bad switch ins I can think of would be Skarmory and Togekiss. Skarmory, being a defense beast, Whirlwinder, and resisting both DClaw and Iron Head, is just utter ass for DNite. I mean, this is where you get into "What I would do for a fifth move slot so that I could do x." Togekiss is really only ass if it comes in and you decide to EQ predicting a Steel type to come in instead that turn, but it's not as bad as Skarm.

@phoopes: Those are suggestions to get around less common item variables and hazards Honestly, I would leave the Scarf counter off the squad because it's not as common as Life Orb sets these days, and instead just opt for a standard Wall Rotom without Trick if I even decided to use Wash at all. More likely to be supplanted by Adaptability Porygon-Z...if Conversion2 would WORK(PS has a glitch where clicking Comversion2 won't send the order to the server). Special Fire type: What do you have against ZardY? Weavile is just a personal pick because the amount of coverage it can do is huge, and sixth member is sixth member. I made a dedicated effort to ensure that supporters were able to do more than just support Dragonite specifically.
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:49 PM   #3816
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Anyone want to battle? #TeamLostHeroes needs blood before Blaze makes me rant about things via Skype.
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Old 01-15-2015, 09:05 AM   #3817
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Why Magneton? (Random Battle, 5 turns)

No, but seriously: why was I given a Magneton without Eviolite instead of a Magnezone? Is it a speed-tier thing in ORAS Random Battle? Is it also possibly the fact that Random Battle, being kind to lower stat'ed creatures by offsetting their low stats with level boosts, makes Magneton superior to Magnezone? I've never seen a Magneton in Random Battle before now. This is definitely new, even if I haven't played in weeks.
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Old 01-15-2015, 10:42 AM   #3818
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I'm pretty sure Magneton would not only be faster (since Magneton's base speed is higher) but it would also be more powerful than Magnezone because of the likely level difference. Probably less bulky though.
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Old 01-15-2015, 10:43 AM   #3819
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Originally Posted by blazeVA View Post
I'm pretty sure Magneton would not only be faster (since Magneton's base speed is higher) but it would also be more powerful than Magnezone because of the likely level difference.
Thank you for telling me what I just said.

EDIT: I know the stat differences. (I SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED THEM.) I'm asking what has changed between XY and ORAS to make PS decide to field Eviolite-less Magneton over Magnezone seeing as Magnezone has been the one in Random Battles since Showdown appeared.
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:16 AM   #3820
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Talon, the way you said it made you seem unsure. Blaze was confirming your suspicions. No biggie.
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:22 AM   #3821
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Would also like to point out that because of those differences, Magneton would do better with both a Choice Scarf and Choice Specs than Magnezone, meaning it wouldn't always have an Eviolite. Didn't say that although I really should have, sorry.
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:26 AM   #3822
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Talon, the way you said it made you seem unsure. Blaze was confirming your suspicions. No biggie.
Unsure of IF. Not unsure of WHAT. All Blaze did was repeat my post nearly idea for idea: "I wonder if it could be because of these things?" / "It might be because of these things!" And not the "Yes, it was definitely because of those things you listed, Talon, and I know because I work for PS / I overheard their rationale in the forums"-kind of confirmation I am seeking.
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:55 AM   #3823
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This thread needs a regular injection of Xanax to function every day.
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Old 01-15-2015, 12:35 PM   #3824
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This thread needs a regular injection of Xanax to function every day.
It's not a wonder why I usually stay away from competitive stuff unless it's to discuss how a certain Pokemon works in competitive. Or to lurk.
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Old 01-15-2015, 12:46 PM   #3825
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And folk like Talon are the reason I quit comp.
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