POKéMON Black 2 & White 2 announced (2)!

[Talon87]

The last two of your "new info" bullet points are info we already knew from the Corocoro scans.

[Kindrindra]

Yeah, well, the Corocoro stuff was new to me, so. ;_;

[Tyranidos]

Hover your cursor over to see the difference between Unova in BW and Unova in BW2.

[Concept]

Presumably the map means we're getting a third new gym leader we haven't seen yet, or at least a third new gym location (given three of the original gym towns just aren't there any more). I initially thought four gym towns were gone, but then noticed Opelucid city is just about hanging on. Also, major plot-important locations (particularly Dragonspiral tower, where N originally gets his legendary dragon) are gone, too, but I won't read too much into that because if I do someone will come along and go "no, it's might still be essentially a third version, they've just moved that event elsewhere".

Also, am I the only one wondering where the new victory road/league is?

[phoopes]

Map differences I noticed...

Lots of stuff frozen over in the north and west, including Elite 4 and Dragonspiral Tower.
New cities and bodies of water in the southwest.
New port in the southwest.
Buildings on the unfrozen part of the eastern mountains.
Desert Resort actually has some buildings in it.
Foliage of the region a different color.
That train town isn't frozen over.
The icy mountains on the west side have a cave that opens up.
Those two islands in the southwest have buildings on them now.
Circular thing in the middle (Dream World place, I presume. Never got involved in that.) has a different design, and now also has no water.
A tower near the red bridge close to the center of the map has disappeared.
In Mistralton City, a small building(?) has been added.
A cave in front of Opelucid City has disappeared.
The thickest ice appears to be in the northeast- where Kyurem resides in B/W1. (The ice is opaque here, most other places are translucent.)
Cold Storage appears to be replaced with something else.
Castelia has ships in its harbor. (It did before, but not on the map.)
Two craters(?) near Driftveil City.

[Kindrindra]

One of the craters appears to have a cave of some sort in it. Maybe that's how you get to Ocelucid?

Also, as phoopes said, Entralink has changed. The tower he mentioned is the lighthouse (which didn't serve a purpose anyways, so).



HOLY FUCK. EVERYONE, LOOK THROUGH THE ICE NEAR UNDELLA TOWN. THE SHORELINE HAS CHANGED. DRASTICALLY. AND ISLANDS HAVE BEEN ADDED.

Also, note that Mistraltion now has a plane drawn in... AND SO DOES A NEW AREA TO THE RIGHT OF ENTRALINK. Said new area also has a cave... leading into the mountain which is frozen over. I'm guessing we're somehow going to be let into the ice area.



EDIT: Also, phoopes, those two buildings on the islands existed before, they just weren't drawn onto the map. That's Liberty Garden and Victory(?) Tower.

[phoopes]

Ah, I didn't spot those. I assumed the thing in Mistralton was another semi-important building. Now that I look closer, (*facepalm*) duh, it's a plane. Didn't notice the plane in or the cave near the ice area, nor the cave in one of the craters by Driftveil either.

I'M ALSO EXCITED ABOUT THE NEW ISLANDS UNDER THE ICE TOO, CAN YA TELL?

[Shuckle]

The only available stationary legendary is Cobalion because Mistralton Cave is okeydokey (it's the icy mountain on the west to the right). So I predict he'll be the focus of the next storyline alongside Kyurem and whatever else is chosen.

I wanna know where the character starts, though.

Oh, and Relic Castle has been razed.
A small building near White Forest/Black City has changed - it's barely visible through the ice.

[phoopes]

>Relic Castle gone

Boo-hoo. I want my Volcarona.

>Character starts

I believe somewhere in the Southwest corner of the map... not sure which town, though, as there appears to be three or four of them.

[Kindrindra]

Originally Posted by phoopes

>Relic Castle gone

Boo-hoo. I want my Volcarona.

>Character starts

I believe somewhere in the Southwest corner of the map... not sure which town, though, as there appears to be three or four of them.

No, only the exit tower has collapsed, apparently.

Also, the general online consensus seems to be that that ice doesn't actually exist, and is in fact serving the same purpose the clouds did for the platinum map.

Which would mean...

HOLY SHIT, GF, HOW MUCH HAVE YOU CHANGED IN TWO YEARS?!



Also, it appears the girl character's unofficial default name, at least for now, is Hana. Heh.

[phoopes]

Clouds =/= Ice. Personally, I think it's a huge plot device for Kyurem.

[Kindrindra]

Originally Posted by phoopes

Clouds =/= Ice. Personally, I think it's a huge plot device for Kyurem.

Personally, I think it's both. XD

[Amras.MG]

These sequels are starting to feel like "Black and White as they should have been" more than true blue sequels or third games.

I say this due to a major complaint I had with Black and White - them only allowing you to use new Pokemon. I wonder what other mechanics they'll fix... if any.

Is it just me, or have all the Unova player characters had a horrible design? I wish we didn't have to start with Tepig, Snivy, and Oshawott, as well. That sucks.

/hopes that all Pokemon have their Dream World abilities instead of regular ones, suggesting this the Dream World version of Unova

[Talon87]

That would be pretty funny if this is all "just a dream," Dallas-style. That would incur so much rage and conflicted emotions, I'm sure!

[phoopes]

>All just a dream

Reminds me of that two-part Family Guy episode that did something very similar to that.

[Concept]

Originally Posted by Amras.MG

I say this due to a major complaint I had with Black and White - them only allowing you to use new Pokemon.

I really liked that, to be honest.

[Lady Kuno]

Originally Posted by Concept

I really liked that, to be honest.

I agree. This was a huge plus. As opposed to RuSa's massive negative of not only missing a ton of random Pokemon for no reason, being unable to ever be able to send forward your Pokemon from the old games.

[deoxys]

I liked what they were trying to do with the whole "This is Red/Blue all over again! Only 150 Pokemon! All new!" but in the end I was sorely missing the variety. To be honest, a lot of the new Pokemon are just straight up useless.

[Shuckle]

Originally Posted by deoxys

I liked what they were trying to do with the whole "This is Red/Blue all over again! Only 150 Pokemon! All new!" but in the end I was sorely missing the variety. To be honest, a lot of the new Pokemon are just straight up useless.

There was just enough to make many different working teams. It's no RBY but it does fine. To be honest, I thought GSC was more varied because it had new evolutions, not just straight-up new chains.

Good ones in my book (things available in Story) in order of appearance.

Samurott
Emboar
Stoutland
Gigalith
Scoliopede
Lilligant/Whimsicott
Sigilyph
Carracosta/Archeops
Maybe Krookodile if you can get past the fact that his nose looks like a penis.
________________________
Reuniclus/Gothitelle
Galvantula
Ferrothorn
Haxorus
Basculin
Jellicent
Mienshao
Golurk
Druddigon
Vanniluxe
________________________
Bisharp
Zweilous (lol Ghetsis and his hacked Hydreigon, and an honorary mention for douchiness goes to Gary and Falkner and their hacked Pidgeottos)
Bouffalant
Heatmor

Everything below that line is considered "Late-Game" because it comes after the freaking 4th Gym. Elesa is the 4th Gym Leader, but she doesn't feel like it because there is very little to deal with before it. Below the second line is "Super Late Game", where the teams are already set and done unless you've either planned it all out (like me) or played through it before (like some of y'all), you probably won't get it. Include Haxorus and Jellicent because honestly, you'll never find it without defeating the 8th Gym (or in Jelli's case, Shauntal) at least once and it's difficult to retrieve and train in time to actually use it.

Hopefully, even if nothing else changes, some useful mons early on (read: avoid Leavanny, things like Purrloin and Seismotoad, and put in things like Bisharp and Vanillite and Haxorus and maybe Bouffalant) should be implemented. Those first three gyms for me were literally nothing but my starter, Munna, and Petilil. Maybe I should consider getting an Audino next time.

[Amras.MG]

I consider the lack of them adding new evolutions to old Pokemon a major weakness of Gen V. I really liked most of the new evolutions in GSC and DPP.

[Concept]

Clearly you and I have very different opinions - new evo's/pre-evos always really annoyed me :p, I considered that one of BW's strengths. I liked some (but definitely not all - the babies were a terrible idea) of the ones introduced during Gen 2, and then Gen 4 went and (imo) fuglied up previously great 'mon like Magmar and Electabuzz.

[Amras.MG]

A lot of the pre-evolutions bug me. I do like many of the added evolutions, though.

Black and White always seemed like it had delusions of grandeur to me, I dunno.

[Talon87]

Magmortar isn't any uglier than Magmar. Electivire looks a hell of a lot cooler than Electabuzz. [/different opinions on the internet]

At the end of the day, I don't really care so much whether you're an evolution for an existing creature or whether you're a brand-new species line: what I care about is whether you're good or bad, period.

Spoiler: show

Scenario A: evolution to existing creature done right
Togekiss is fantastic, both in and of itself (amazing creature, looks beautiful, works wonderfully, just so much fun) and in relation to its species line (Togetic was hideous, was terrible in competitive play, etc). This is an example of an evolution to an existing line being done right.

Scenario B: evolution to existing creature done wrong
Mr. Mime's pretty ugly. He's not very fun to use in competitive play either. Mono-Psychic tends to be pretty bland but the best ones tend to have diverse movepools or very fun stat distros. Mr. Mime has neither and as a result no one ever wanted to play with one except for emos/hipsters/whatever they're calling counterculture people these days. So GameFreak decided it was time to give Mr. Mime a second chance. And what did they do? They gave him a fucking pre-evo. Mime Jr. Nobody wanted Mime Jr. Nobody asked for Mime Jr. Okay, fine, maybe three or four people on the planet asked for Mime Jr. and that's precisely why we got him. But he sucks. He represents everything that is wrong with pre-evos. He did nothing to fix Mr. Mime's crap status and ended up sucking up an evolution slot on the 'dex. Not to mention created more hassle for purists who insist on catching them all.

Scenario C: new species line done right
While I'm not a fan of Gen 5's creatures for the most part, there were quite a few they did right. One of my favorites is the Galvantula line. This is an excellent example of getting everything right. One, the species. Spiders are cool, Pokemon had only one spider up until Gen 5, and it was a shitty line. Spiders deserved better, GameFreak realized, and so they set out to deliver. Two, the typing. Bug/Electric had never existed until Gen 5. It was a typing we'd been wanting since Gen 3 at the latest when we all saw Volbeat and were so sure he'd be the one. Well, after nearly a decade of holding out on us, GameFreak finally gave us the much-requested type combo. And it's really, really fun to play with. Which brings us to ... Three, he's fun to use! Galvantula has what it takes to be a competitively-viable Pokemon. A, he's got a unique and fun-to-use typing that isn't super-shitty due to myriad weaknesses like some other creatures have. B, he's got great stats and right where you want 'em. This is not another Flareon or Emboar, oh no! This is like another Starmie or Gengar! Fantastic speed and fantastic SpAtt ... and one last thing. C, he's got the moves. A lot of potentially great Pokemon have shitty movepools, but not Galvantula! He's got access to exactly what you'd want him to have: STAB powerful Bug (Bug Buzz), STAB powerful Electric (Thunder @ CompoundEyes), a powerful Grass move (Energy Ball) to deal with Swampert who is normally Water's answer to Electric offense, and finally an at least decently powerful Ice-type move (Hidden Power: Ice) to deal with those pesky dragons. Finally, let's circle back around to point #4. Fourth, Galvantula has a sweet design. He doesn't look dopey like Conkeldurr or like an 8-year old's dreammon the way Dialga and Palkia stupidly do, oh no. Galvantula looks like a slick, real Pokemon. He's the sort of design who'd fit in right at home with Gen 2 or Gen 3 if they'd thought him up back then. So ... he looks good, he plays good, and he's fun to use. What more could you ask for?

Scenario D: new species line done wrong
IMO, Gen 5 was for the most part a terrible gen when it came to the new creatures. Sure, there were a few diamonds in the rough, but most of the new stuff is horseshit. It looks ugly, it plays poorly, it's just blah. For every Conkeldurr or Ferrothorn you're going to point me to, I'm going to point you right back to two Meerhogs, three Swannas, or four Basculins. Gen 5 is littered with this uninspired crap and it's a real shame that these things are all canon. But some of Gen 5's worst offenders are those who go that extra mile and offend our very notion of what it means to be a Pokemon. And I can't think of a better example of this than the Vanilluxe line. This was a fucking retarded idea. Whoever thought it'd be a great idea to turn a food item into a Pokemon needs to never be allowed again to have a say in the Pokemon creation process. Too lazy to list off all the other reasons why Vanilluxe line blows chunks. Look them up for yourself if you're not already familiar with them. -.-

So yeah. As you can see, I don't think it matters whether it's a new evolution to an old creature or a whole new line altogether. Just in general, I care about whether it's good or whether it's bad, with the new species factor not really playing into that for me very strongly.

[phoopes]

On evos and prevos: I'm fearing a Heamor prevo, which would make me hate that Pokemon even more. There's other stuff too, but cba to list that now.

[Talon87]

I could definitely see a Heatmor pre-evo. >_< It fits right in line with a lot of their other pre-evos. Current evolution has ehhhh but not great stats, looks like "an adult of its species," ...

Oh god. D: You don't think they're going to make Baby Zangoose and Baby Seviper some day, do you? D: