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Old 03-26-2023, 09:10 PM   #101
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OK, so. Remember how I said I'd try and come up with some recipes of my own? Well, completely forgot about that. Entirely slipped my mind. But, nevertheless, once I was reminded of this, I immediately set to work trying to think up something. That said, as I look over Lit's initial list, I admit I'm struggling to think of anything that hasn't already been covered- this seems pretty thorough. One thing I should note is that we seem to be lacking a Poké Snack recipe despite having them for Pewter Crunchies, Lava Cookies, and the like. I also see no way to craft the Sqweezbottle (the item that teaches Caustic Crossbones). Unsure if that was intentional, but in case the intent was to leave that up to me, I'll cover that as well. Thus, I propose the following;

x1 Hearty Grain + x1 Crunchy Salt + x1 Gold Berry + x1 Cake-Based Lure = x1 Poké Snack
x2 Smoke Balls + x1 Black Sludge + x1 Poison Gem = x1 Sqweezbottle

Now, then. In the past, I've made no secret of the fact that I am heavily in favor of a mind-bendingly convoluted recipe for some manner of super item. Something that would take you basically forever and/or an inordinate amount of resources to actually make, but would be exclusive to this process and well worth the effort. Think those giant hero robot deals you can craft in Animal Crossing, except ideally with more practical use. Previously, when I pitched such an idea, it was a Master Ball recipe. Of course, it has been made abundantly clear to me that the Master Ball will never see the light of day in FB, least of all as a craftable item, so while I remain very much in favor of this being changed, I will nevertheless respect the decision as it currently stands.

But, that begged the question, if not the Master Ball, then what in the name of the balls on Ash Ketchum's belt should it be? And I think I've come up with something. It would have practical use within FB, probably without breaking the game. It's something that exists in the main series canon, complete with precedent for it not being usable in certain situations that would make it too OP. I speak of course, of the Pokémon Box Link. The item introduced in SwSh that lets you access PC storage to change up your team on the fly. We currently have no such thing in FB, and I think this could be something worth working towards- the ability to freely change up your team in a zone adventure, within reason.

I... don't have a ready recipe for this yet, actually. I started trying to think one up, got stumped, and then realized that maybe, just maybe, this ought to be run by mods and stuff before I start coming up with a recipe. So... yeah, I leave this here for your consideration for the moment.
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Old 03-30-2023, 03:06 PM   #102
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Ok so amalgamated thoughts:

-Villainous team balls: Maybe Cyber Ball recipes plus Black Sludge or some other sludge/goo based item?

-Not wholly sure on bundles, what kind of scale are we talking with these?

-Agree with MM's hyper-super-secret crafting recipe, though I'm not entirely sure on it being something like box link given the buyability of a lot of ingredients. I was thinking maybe scrounge something like the GS Ball, which takes a heinous amount of shit but gives the mon inside +30 Bond or something else special.

-Still don't think the gacha is a good idea. We have a comprehensive crafting setup, people should be using that. Scrap the gacha entirely, get your fix on enigma eggs.
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Old 03-30-2023, 04:17 PM   #103
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Systems-wise, I like this. Materials allows me to drop bigger bundles of rewards on players without having to keep Bulba or Serebii handy, and if I know someone is working towards an item on a mema or such I can drop a handful of materials related to it if the item itself would be too big a reward. Really, just having more ways of getting hold of FB's many custom items would be a good idea.

My only issue is more of a presentation of information thing. Like Raves said there's a lot going on with that list, but the more I read it the more I notice that a lot of the recipes have Material A and Material B be fixed, plus one variable material that determines the end product. We could condense these down to Pokeballs always using an Apricorn and tumblestone and just list the third ingredient that each variety needs (with the exception of the Johtonian and special balls). I think this would make the crafting table look way less intimidating when all those redundancies are cut down.


In agreement with most of this right here

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Originally Posted by Missingno. Master View Post
OK, so. Remember how I said I'd try and come up with some recipes of my own? Well, completely forgot about that. Entirely slipped my mind. But, nevertheless, once I was reminded of this, I immediately set to work trying to think up something. That said, as I look over Lit's initial list, I admit I'm struggling to think of anything that hasn't already been covered- this seems pretty thorough. One thing I should note is that we seem to be lacking a Poké Snack recipe despite having them for Pewter Crunchies, Lava Cookies, and the like. I also see no way to craft the Sqweezbottle (the item that teaches Caustic Crossbones). Unsure if that was intentional, but in case the intent was to leave that up to me, I'll cover that as well. Thus, I propose the following;

x1 Hearty Grain + x1 Crunchy Salt + x1 Gold Berry + x1 Cake-Based Lure = x1 Poké Snack
x2 Smoke Balls + x1 Black Sludge + x1 Poison Gem = x1 Sqweezbottle

Now, then. In the past, I've made no secret of the fact that I am heavily in favor of a mind-bendingly convoluted recipe for some manner of super item. Something that would take you basically forever and/or an inordinate amount of resources to actually make, but would be exclusive to this process and well worth the effort. Think those giant hero robot deals you can craft in Animal Crossing, except ideally with more practical use. Previously, when I pitched such an idea, it was a Master Ball recipe. Of course, it has been made abundantly clear to me that the Master Ball will never see the light of day in FB, least of all as a craftable item, so while I remain very much in favor of this being changed, I will nevertheless respect the decision as it currently stands.

But, that begged the question, if not the Master Ball, then what in the name of the balls on Ash Ketchum's belt should it be? And I think I've come up with something. It would have practical use within FB, probably without breaking the game. It's something that exists in the main series canon, complete with precedent for it not being usable in certain situations that would make it too OP. I speak of course, of the Pokémon Box Link. The item introduced in SwSh that lets you access PC storage to change up your team on the fly. We currently have no such thing in FB, and I think this could be something worth working towards- the ability to freely change up your team in a zone adventure, within reason.

I... don't have a ready recipe for this yet, actually. I started trying to think one up, got stumped, and then realized that maybe, just maybe, this ought to be run by mods and stuff before I start coming up with a recipe. So... yeah, I leave this here for your consideration for the moment.
Honestly surprised you forgot and that you don't have something ready.

As a moderator, I think that a box link would be something nice to have and honestly, I wouldn't have issues with it saying that we have the restriction you can't just use it in the midst of a battle or are cycling it to earn bond for all of your mon continuously.
As for the likes of the Sqweezbottle Im pretty sure they are leaving that up to the makers of the items given that my Blazing anklet isn't on that list nor is Sniz's Mythril Whetstone, whilst it is listed as a part of a recipe


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Ok so amalgamated thoughts:

-Villainous team balls: Maybe Cyber Ball recipes plus Black Sludge or some other sludge/goo-based item?

-Not wholly sure about bundles, what kind of scale are we talking with these?

-Agree with MM's hyper-super-secret crafting recipe, though I'm not entirely sure on it being something like box link given the buyability of a lot of ingredients. I was thinking maybe scrounge something like the GS Ball, which takes a heinous amount of shit but gives the mon inside +30 Bond or something else special.

-Still don't think the gacha is a good idea. We have a comprehensive crafting setup, people should be using that. Scrap the gacha entirely, get your fix on enigma eggs.
Bundles tie in with an example of giving out more rewards that could actually mean something to someone whilst not being like something on the levels of a mega stone here and there by just beating a bug etc. Think of them like getting the materials from pokemon after beating them in scarlet and violet. Thats how I think of it.

I'm not against a GS recipe but I am also not 100% for it either at the moment.

Gacha on the other hand is a nonnegotiable stay. It is based in part on the fact that the Cram-O-Matic within SWSH can both guarantee an outcome with certain recipes, as well as give something totally random for four items whose assigned values can determine what item could spit out overall. There's a lot more to it than just that which you can read up on here.

With that in mind, we can still honor the original mechanic of it while also not having us mods ( Or rather poor Leo) sit through and assign certain values to items throughout the whole of Fizzy's vast pool of items for it to function as it does in the game. It also allows for old returning members to get rid of items that we will probably never go back to and still earn something useful or that can be worked into a recipe. Leo could correct me if I am wrong on any of that but that's how I understand it.
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Old 03-30-2023, 04:58 PM   #104
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Actually on the subject of the gacha I do want to redraw attention to the middle two paragraphs of my last post. They seem to have been glossed over though I would blame my writing over intent lol. Rather than completely rehashing it again I’ll just quote it, but if it wasn’t addressed because I’m the only one with this concern I’m also content to not push on it any further. I get that we don’t want people to put in 5 tumblestones and get back 4 busted custom items, the same way we didn’t want people to buy stuff from the department store just to shove in the gacha, we want people to interact with the crafting aspects, but the build up of crafting items I won’t use to replace the trading cards I won’t use is a similar concern.

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As for the third maybe this is a just me problem, and I think I understand the reasoning behind not wanting to put materials back into the gacha to prevent recursive entries, but if one of the reasons that function exists is to get rid of unwanted items off the character sheet I might worry that making materials a big part of the output might not completely solve the problem. For instance, I’ve got a bunch of mismatched shards from the old version disproportionate to my current need for evo stones so if I roll more, especially more of colors I don’t have a match for, that’s not really beneficial. How often have materials piled up in video games with crafting systems for items that you just don’t use? If I decide I don’t need pokeballs but keep rolling tumblestones every week they’re gonna similarly build up.

Maybe there could be a “cash out” option for each level of rarity of output? Something that’s not quite economically efficient, especially compared to posting, but gets you something a little more tangible than a Material you now have to sit on or arrange to trade away. My first rough thought would be $25 per rarity level. You just say as you’re posting to pick up: “ I’m claiming x y and Z and then A as ‘insert amount’ in cash”
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Old 04-10-2023, 05:32 AM   #105
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Actually on the subject of the gacha I do want to redraw attention to the middle two paragraphs of my last post. They seem to have been glossed over though I would blame my writing over intent lol. Rather than completely rehashing it again, I’ll just quote it, but if it wasn’t addressed because I’m the only one with this concern I’m also content to not push on it any further. I get that we don’t want people to put in 5 tumble stones and get back 4 busted custom items, the same way we didn’t want people to buy stuff from the department store just to shove in the gacha, we want people to interact with the crafting aspects, but the build-up of crafting items I won’t use to replace the trading cards I won’t use is a similar concern.
I am honestly surprised Leo hasn't really jumped on this given it's right up their alleyway. However, I have sat on this for a bit and I am not against this solution of a "Cash Out" option, trading in materials you aren't going to use, to either direct the funds to something you are going to use or purchase eggs or whatnot you decide.

It does put an additional workload albeit a rather minor one atop the assigning a value to x items but that is something we can probably easily do and take a look at things like in PLA or likes.

I am having a hard time finding fault with this, So I would be in agreement that this would be an Ideal option because I am one who in other games likes to turn in and sell craft materials for things I am not going to make or use either to other players in cases like fallout 76 or just for cash for whatever, its more of a personal thing to keep my inventory relatively clean so I get the notion of not wanting to sit on resources that have little meaning waiting around for luck to get the ones you want.
Once we finally get around to discussing this I'll bring this up when we are solidifying this before we move on to the next shop.
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Old 04-10-2023, 04:05 PM   #106
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I will say the reason I ignored is that I personally am not a fan of the idea in the slightest. Anyways I have been trying to push for a mod discussion on this but it is taking some time to set up. For now, I'll consider community discussion ice boxed until we can get it worked on.
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Old 04-10-2023, 09:18 PM   #107
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Okay so the mods have spoken and we are fine with the initial proposal for the Cram. The new cram will be live next Monday. Bundles will wait until we see how the recipes affect the game. Also, in the future, there may be an overlap for recipes.

As for the next shop, we will be discussing the AC. So our main concern with it is primarily the Pokemon retention rate at the AC. We have noticed the issue where Pokemon may sit for months, so we are trying to think up an incentive as it gets closer to its release dates to help these Pokemon get adopted. Any other suggestions would be preferable.
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Old 04-10-2023, 09:53 PM   #108
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Off the top of my head, maybe Pokémon that stay in the Adoption Center for an extended period could level up, maybe learn random Egg/MT moves. Though that begs the question of how fast they should be gaining these- I doubt we want them getting too jacked without anyone even taking them yet.
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Old 04-11-2023, 09:47 AM   #109
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Off the top of my head, maybe Pokémon that stay in the Adoption Center for an extended period could level up, maybe learn random Egg/MT moves. Though that begs the question of how fast they should be gaining these- I doubt we want them getting too jacked without anyone even taking them yet.
I also like this idea. And it would also make sense to me that it could happen alongside every drop of new mons. Or maybe every other? It would depend on how long it actually takes till a Pokémon is released that I don’t recall and doesn’t seem to be in the opening post of the thread. I like the idea that a Pokémon might not attract anyone’s interest at first but an egg move or something could inspire a new idea.
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Old 04-11-2023, 11:14 AM   #110
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The AC has notoriously been seen as a hub for newer players. The only time more established players are interested in a Pokémon is basically when a rarer Pokémon is up for grabs. The Pokémon that typically are in the AC fall under the more common variety. Minding the fact that ‘common’ is more due to the rarity than the accessibility/frequency a Pokémon gets hatched.

Personally if a Pokémon has been in the AC for far too long I think a different sort of system should be tried out.

Instead of just letting the Pokémon go, how about ‘replacing’ them with Pokémon of the same variety/rarity.

For example, Taillow has been in the AC for months, hasn’t seen any interest in the last three months it’s been around.

For argument sakes, the three months is the cut off period for letting it be released.

Instead of that happening, Taillow flies the coop and a Fletchling takes its place.

Similar type, rarity (assuming) but a different Pokémon to catch the eyes of others.
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Old 04-12-2023, 01:19 PM   #111
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I might be in the minority here but I don't really see this as a problem: if a Pokemon has been sitting there for months it's probably because nobody in the active playerbase wants to raise it, and that's fine. If anything, maybe the time before release can be shortened, to force those on the fence to make a final decision, but I don't really think there's more to be done. From an RP perspective perhaps have an NPC stop by and adopt them instead of "releasing" them would be preferable, but even that's just flavor text.
Personally I just find a stagnant list of Pokemon I don't care to raise loses appeal eventually (these days I basically just check the new arrivals announcement and never the first post, because I know it's full of species I don't particularly care for). But I wouldn't necessarily call it a "problem" either. If they're released / adopted by NPCs sooner we can refresh the list faster with new arrivals and keep it more interesting for the players, although I understand if that's not the mindset being advocated to begin with.
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Old 04-16-2023, 03:53 PM   #112
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Maybe make Pokemon in their last month of AC stay half price to encourage whim-purchases? If nobody's had em at full price, might as well offer it.
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Old 04-17-2023, 01:33 PM   #113
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The AC has notoriously been seen as a hub for newer players. The only time more established players are interested in a Pokémon is basically when a rarer Pokémon is up for grabs. The Pokémon that typically are in the AC fall under the more common variety. Minding the fact that ‘common’ is more due to the rarity than the accessibility/frequency a Pokémon gets hatched.

Personally if a Pokémon has been in the AC for far too long I think a different sort of system should be tried out.

Instead of just letting the Pokémon go, how about ‘replacing’ them with Pokémon of the same variety/rarity.

For example, Taillow has been in the AC for months, hasn’t seen any interest in the last three months it’s been around.

For argument sakes, the three months is the cut off period for letting it be released.

Instead of that happening, Taillow flies the coop and a Fletchling takes its place.

Similar type, rarity (assuming) but a different Pokémon to catch the eyes of others.
It's an interesting idea, but it might be a lot of work to figure out what would constitute the equivalent of some Pokémon. OK, like, your example makes total sense, and there's some situations that are kinda no-brainers. Like, if an Emolga's been sitting in there, makes sense to swap it for something like Minun or Togedemaru, or, or, swapping out a Patrat for a Shroodle or Bidoof. But to figure out a system like that that covers every conceivable Pokémon that could possibly be left waiting in the Adoption Center, that seems like a massive undertaking. It also doesn't help so much that FB doesn't really do "rarities" anymore. I know the old Egg House used to have a few different levels of rarities for what could hatch, but that just isn't a thing anymore. Value is subjective- give players here a choice between a Patrat and an Iron Jugulis, I think there'd be at least a few who take the Patrat.

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I might be in the minority here but I don't really see this as a problem: if a Pokemon has been sitting there for months it's probably because nobody in the active playerbase wants to raise it, and that's fine. If anything, maybe the time before release can be shortened, to force those on the fence to make a final decision, but I don't really think there's more to be done. From an RP perspective perhaps have an NPC stop by and adopt them instead of "releasing" them would be preferable, but even that's just flavor text.
Personally I just find a stagnant list of Pokemon I don't care to raise loses appeal eventually (these days I basically just check the new arrivals announcement and never the first post, because I know it's full of species I don't particularly care for). But I wouldn't necessarily call it a "problem" either. If they're released / adopted by NPCs sooner we can refresh the list faster with new arrivals and keep it more interesting for the players, although I understand if that's not the mindset being advocated to begin with.
This is also valid- some Pokémon just don't appeal to the current player base, and that's OK. It's why we do the periodic releases in the firsit place. I do like the idea of framing it as they get adopted by NPCs, though. That has some potential.

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Maybe make Pokemon in their last month of AC stay half price to encourage whim-purchases? If nobody's had em at full price, might as well offer it.
We already make them free in their final month, remember?
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Old 04-17-2023, 02:16 PM   #114
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We already make them free in their final month, remember?
There is no mention of this in the OP or anywhere else I can find.
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Old 04-17-2023, 03:29 PM   #115
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There is no mention of this in the OP or anywhere else I can find.
Ah, fair. I know we've done this before, though.
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Old 04-18-2023, 03:10 PM   #116
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There is no mention of this in the OP or anywhere else I can find.
This is something that's been tried out a couple times, and it's worked to some degree but the discussion itself is about how to get these Pokemon out the door before that point.

In regards to rarity substitution, I really don't like this idea for two key reasons. The first is that it creates even more categorizing, rolling and bookkeeping for the mods, which needless to say that discussion in the Discord has shown this is something we really should be avoiding.

The second reason is—and now that I think about it, basically an extension of the first—because it turns the AC into another gacha. Unwanted hatches from Enigma Eggs would get funneled into the AC to be re-rolled into something more worthwhile, and while I think the level of competition around desirable Pokemon and cooldowns would keep it from being exploited, at least for me it does go against the spirit of the AC a bit.

I liked the Buy One, Get One Free promotion, and think it did a lot of good to decrease the amount of Pokemon rotting on Page 1 after all the hot new ones were picked up. Maybe if we were to do a BOGOF promotion again, the free adopt would have to come from the Page 1 list?

The only real issue I can see is that double adopts are more work for the Player when it comes to deciding which Trainer it goes to, names, and the effort of updating their member posts to include it. At that point, if a Pokemon is so unpopular that nobody wants to touch it even if it's free, I don't think there's anything that can really be done about that. Have it get taken off the list after a set number of months.
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Old 04-18-2023, 04:27 PM   #117
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This is something that's been tried out a couple times, and it's worked to some degree but the discussion itself is about how to get these Pokemon out the door before that point.

In regards to rarity substitution, I really don't like this idea for two key reasons. The first is that it creates even more categorizing, rolling and bookkeeping for the mods, which needless to say that discussion in the Discord has shown this is something we really should be avoiding.

The second reason is—and now that I think about it, basically an extension of the first—because it turns the AC into another gacha. Unwanted hatches from Enigma Eggs would get funneled into the AC to be re-rolled into something more worthwhile, and while I think the level of competition around desirable Pokemon and cooldowns would keep it from being exploited, at least for me it does go against the spirit of the AC a bit.

I liked the Buy One, Get One Free promotion, and think it did a lot of good to decrease the amount of Pokemon rotting on Page 1 after all the hot new ones were picked up. Maybe if we were to do a BOGOF promotion again, the free adopt would have to come from the Page 1 list?

The only real issue I can see is that double adopts are more work for the Player when it comes to deciding which Trainer it goes to, names, and the effort of updating their member posts to include it. At that point, if a Pokemon is so unpopular that nobody wants to touch it even if it's free, I don't think there's anything that can really be done about that. Have it get taken off the list after a set number of months.
I agree with this, I think having a BOGO at least once a quarter (like January, April, July, October sorta thing) would allow the list of adoptable Pokemon to gradually diminish. Alternatively if once a quarter seems too frequent, even twice a year (perhaps Easter month/Another holiday) to allow the list to lower. Obviously I don't think this fully solves the issue, and I agree that if a Pokemon has sat too long (a full quarter) it should be released from the AC (I did like the idea of having it be adopted by an NPC, perhaps said NPC could even show up in someone's adventure with the adopted Pokemon fully trained? Might allow for some worldbuilding but this obviously isn't a need).
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Old 04-20-2023, 11:44 AM   #118
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Hmm, so, I've been thinking on what's been talked about and going to give some bullet thoughts.

-I'm not a huge fan of rarity. The only 'rarity' we really have are for the Pokemon that are only exclusive to Zones and Enigma Eggs. Everything else is considered on the same level.

-We do already offer Pokemon for free with their last month. I could see maybe have them be half-priced once they reach the three-month mark. Though, I don't want to encourage people to just sit on a mon until it's free. (If they do end up getting adopted before then then that's the lesson ig)

-I feel like having a BoGo every once and a while would be a healthy thing. Yet, every once in a while is the key thing here. If they were just on a set schedule, then I feel like a lot of people would hold off until the BoGo starts. While we do want more frequent adoption, it isn't an expectation to adopt every month.

-The only gachas in Fizzy are Eggs and Cram. I really do not want to have to go through the headache of rerolling dropped-off Pokemon. And sometimes Pokemon that get dropped off end up being wanted. Not everyone is aware of trade posts going up, while everyone who is in Discord gets pinged when an adoption wave drops. Meanwhile not everyone checks the White Market, either on forum or Discord.

-I do like MM's idea of adding further incentives the longer they stay. Though, that would increase the price... Unless we axe advanced care as a concept. Though, then these Pokemon become free before release, making them a steal. I think I'm more in line to try out hte concept and see if it works. When we did the survey at the end of 2021 there was support of mons added to the AC having bonuses, and that would be a good topic to discuss.

-Love the NPC adoption idea. It feels a lot better then just them being released back into the wild and rehabilitated. Honestly, I at some point want to try to get a NPC catalog set up for all of our zones curated by the ZAs. That could tie into this point.

I haven't really thought of anything original myself, but as SO I wanted to finally respond to this.
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Old 05-17-2023, 03:40 PM   #119
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Okay, so, this discussion has stagnated since my last post. Thinking on things for a while, here's my proposal:

We nix Advanced Care as a whole. Any Pokemon in the Adoption Center costs a Flat $200. When initially rolled, Pokemon can have a possible up to two Egg Moves with them. Pokemon that are in the Adoption Center for three months are priced at half-off, while Pokemon is free their last month saying there. For now, Pokemon are usually in there for a year before release, but I rather cycle that down to a six-month window minimum to keep a healthier flow and a higher sense of urgency. January and July will stay as our dates when we will do mass drop-offs. So, for example, anything from January-June will be released the following January, and July-December the next July. This is a lot more work on my end, but I rather the Pokemon flow through the AC be healthier.

Twice a year, we will host a BoGo for the Adoption Center. While there won't be a set date, it will most likely happen when the AC starts to reach a high enough number that we can only add in four Pokemon a month.

Any concerns?
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Old 05-17-2023, 03:56 PM   #120
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Sounds good to me. Another thing that might be worthwhile is remembering to announce fresh adopt waves on forums too, rather than just Discord.
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Old 05-17-2023, 04:55 PM   #121
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I'm not sold on axing Advanced Care, personally, but everything else sounds solid.
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Old 05-18-2023, 09:58 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missingno. Master View Post
I'm not sold on axing Advanced Care, personally, but everything else sounds solid.
Almost every single Advanced Care mon just sits there. I'm not proposing axing the increased levels of a mon or them no longer having moves. Just the price increase.

And yeah that can be done Iron. Will most likely be on Serebii side since that's where the AC is.
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Old 05-18-2023, 11:50 AM   #123
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Almost every single Advanced Care mon just sits there. I'm not proposing axing the increased levels of a mon or them no longer having moves. Just the price increase.
Ahh, OK, appreciate the clarification. That being the case, this all sounds good to me.
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Old 05-19-2023, 01:43 AM   #124
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I mean, if a high level Pokemon gets dropped off, having it be the same price as every other Pokemon there is a good way to see that Pokemon get taken quickly. Would do what Lit wants for sure~
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Old 05-19-2023, 07:04 PM   #125
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Popping in to say this is thumbs up from me
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