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Old 06-06-2016, 11:16 AM   #26
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Guys this is clearly just going around in a circle and is only taking away from any possible other points that may come up. Both for this topic and any others. Points have been clearly stated from either side, so if we don't have anything to add that isn't a restatement of those point can we please just move on?

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Old 06-06-2016, 12:24 PM   #27
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I pulled from the anime though,
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In the anime, a Tepig took out a Hydreigon with ember.
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Old 06-06-2016, 05:05 PM   #28
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Now, while I am against it, a few Pokemon that are Ices might like energy regen. Not for defensive play, because most Ices cannot defense, but Ice is one of the best offensive STABs and energy regen can help them push a little harder sometimes. It would benefit them a bit more than health regen, especially those with more limited offensive presence (Pokemon like Walrein, Avalugg, and Glalie do have sufficient offensive presence as it is).

If we were to look at the options for implementing this, if at all, then energy regen would be best. Instead of the impossible task of making them anything better than shit defensively, focusing on helping their offensive pressure, which they're actually capable of being somewhat competent at due to that great STAB.

Let's think about the merits of it as an offensive asset in energy regen instead. Would that make a difference?
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Old 06-06-2016, 10:57 PM   #29
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It could if it gave a bit of refreshment by allowing them to fire off more attacks in close succession.
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:01 PM   #30
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Instead of doing regain, if we want to make ice types better, we can give them a similar buff that actually helps offensively, not unlike what Zelphy suggests. Add into the Ice SC that in colder temperatures/hailstorms they tire more slowly like Fighting-Types under normal conditions. Energy regain in hail could be a cherry on top, but isn't exactly necessary.
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:35 PM   #31
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I can dig that. It's a good offensive buff to a type that really needs to play offensively. And can also help them defensively, probably more than a health regen would, which would just be gravy on top of the offensive buff.
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Old 06-07-2016, 02:57 AM   #32
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The current full SC, highlighting any problem areas
Poliwhirl (Water): Poliwhirl are capable of decent movement on land, though they still prefer the water. They secrete a sort of slime when out of the water, which makes them more slippery and harder to grab.

Poliwrath (Water/Fighting): Poliwrath are the best and fastest swimmers of all the Poliwag family, but are just as adept on land as they are in the water. They secrete a sort of slime when out of the water, which makes them more slippery and harder to grab.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
It really gives it nothing. Poliwrath is really just stated to be the best swimmer in its line, doesnt make it better than any other biped swimmer. The slime is an alright benefit but it is really just something we tend to chuck on anything that is remotely slimy.

The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)
Poliwhirl and Poliwrath are both known for their fists and have hands that look like boxing gloves, i feel like a 1.1 and 1.2 boost to punching attacks would be quite beneficial without breaking the SC. Even a 1.1 boost to Poliwrath if you dont want to over do it.

Could we give poliwhirl fighting familiarity? We do it for other lines like staryu, grotle etc
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:19 AM   #33
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Straight boosts are rather dull and overused imo. Plus, they don't even get that many punching moves. What I'd like to see is Poliwrath, a mon that has pretty much all the grappling moves in the book, be explicitly good at grappling moves, since as it stands right now it's actually fairly shitty at something that should be a niche for it. Throw in something like "Despite its sliminess, Poliwrath is an adept grappler and is better at using moves such as Submission than the average Fighting-Type."

Poliwhirl getting Fighting familiarity doesn't really work well because it also evolves into Politoed.

Honestly, it's a line that doesn't need much help- they're TL...4? 5? Whatever, TL they are, they're there for a reason, and that reason is they're good mon. Ensure Poliwrath isn't the only grappling-based fighter to suck at grappling ever and we're solid, I think.
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:27 AM   #34
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Maybe a slight hypnosis boost? Since that's, you know, kind of the obvious thing?
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:38 AM   #35
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That would also be fine. But let's not go crazy making the Poli line's SC good- it's got more than enough in the typing and movepool department to compensate.
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:02 AM   #36
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Yes but as said it needs something, grappling boost similar to the one on mega swampert who is also slippery would probably be could though.

Giving the whole Poli line something like "there hypnosis uses slightly less energy or is slightly more effective", would be handy.

The whole reason i brought it up is that its current SC is really not anything individual, it is just really blanket stuff with no real benefit.
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:09 AM   #37
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What I'd like to see is Poliwrath, a mon that has pretty much all the grappling moves in the book, be explicitly good at grappling moves, since as it stands right now it's actually fairly shitty at something that should be a niche for it. Throw in something like "Despite its sliminess, Poliwrath is an adept grappler and is better at using moves such as Submission than the average Fighting-Type."
I'd be fine with this, but only if we made Throh's boost more noticeable in turn. Since, far more than Poliwrath, that is Throh's niche right there, grapples, throws, and holds. If we note that Poliwrath is better than most, we need to note that Throh is with no exceptions the best at it.
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:52 PM   #38
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The Poliwrath line doesn't need any further help.

But a grappling boost to it and also Throh would be fine.

Ice types and giving some of them Ice Body is something I'd totally get on board with bee tee dubs. They already have some offensive stuff in the SC.
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Old 06-09-2016, 08:03 PM   #39
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Kangaskhan (Normal): Kangaskhan come in both genders, though females are much more likely to have babies with them than males are. Along with battling, a Kangaskhan is most concerned about its child. If an opponent injures the child, Kangaskhan will go into a blind rage against them, which will last until either the offending Pokémon or Kangaskhan is unconscious. During this time, Kangaskhan's offensive stats are significantly enhanced, making them a good deal more aggressive, though they will continue to perform defensive techniques to help protect their baby, unlike states like Taunt. Kangaskhan without joeys are slightly less concerned about defending themselves, and as a consequence, will act slightly more aggressive and be slightly more agile, due to not having to worry about the safety of their child. Kangaskhan’s Comet Punch will always deal maximum number of hits. Due to having a wide variety of energy available, it is less proficient at maximising the use, resulting in suffering from slightly less type energy. In its Mega Forme, the child quickly matures. The joey will mimic all its parent’s actions, performing the same moves that the parent does at a quarter of the power, effectively giving all its attacks a 25% boost in power, provided both hits connect. The joey is also capable of performing attacks independently of its parent, though only at 25% of their original power, though it will still cost a move. They may also stagger their attacks if using the same move without using an extra move. Kangaskhan will do anything to protect the joey from harm, so if the joey is attacked directly or in danger, she will forgo her orders to intercept any damage or prevent it from additional harm (preventing additional damage from moves like Earthquake). All energy used by the joey is pulled directly from the parent, who feeds the joey with energy to maintain its temporary matured state. Kangaskhan without a joey cannot Mega Evolve.

Any chance we can make this Mega not totally garbage? At the moment you can essentially make sure Mega Kangaskhan never gets off an attack by using a Ground-Type and spamming Earthquake and Bulldoze so she has to spend her time protecting the Joey. I feel like it would make much more sense for the joey to have a set amount of HP (Say, 2 HB or so) and when it gets KO'd for the mother to go into the same rage mode it does when its joey is injured in normal form. When there is literally no other mega with the kind of godawful drawback, I'd say losing some power and the ability to use defensive moves is more than enough punishment for letting the Joey be harmed.

Relatedly, it should probably also be made explicit that the Joey only uses a quarter of the energy an attack would normally cost, because right now it reads like having the Joey use Blizzard independent of its mother will result in mild damage for major energy and that's obviously not the intent.
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Old 06-10-2016, 03:30 PM   #40
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Alternatively you could just dump concern/protection of the kid entirely for the mega form.
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Old 06-10-2016, 05:53 PM   #41
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I'd prefer that, honestly.
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Old 06-11-2016, 01:12 PM   #42
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The current full SC, highlighting any problem areas

Duosion (Psychic): Duosion's body is surrounded by a liquid chemically similar in composition to a cell's cytoplasm, acting as a protective buffer from the outside environment. The damaging effects of weather, such as Hail or Sandstorm, will be buffered by this coating of liquid, and statuses, like poison or burn, may be weakened or distributed. Toxic will take an extra turn to set in as it diffuses through this liquid coat. With two brains, Duosion is also somewhat more resistant to mentally-effecting attacks. They levitate by default.

Reuniclus (Psychic): Reuniclus's body is surrounded by a liquid chemically similar in composition to a cell's cytoplasm, acting as a protective buffer from the outside environment. The damaging effects of weather, such as Hail or Sandstorm, will be buffered by this coating of liquid, and statuses, like poison or burn, may be weakened or distributed. Toxic will take an extra turn to set in as it diffuses through this liquid coat. Their arms, despite being primarily composed of this liquid, are actually very firm, strong and prehensile, allowing for powerful attacks and a great ability to throw or smash. They levitate by default.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
For some odd reason, reuniclus seems to lose the resistance to mental effects duosion has. As much as it is possible that the two brains merged together during the evolution, it still have the same amount of squishy grey matter in it's squishy lime green/indigo head.

The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)
Really, all we'd need to do here is add duosion's Sc to reuniclus'. I doubt it change too much balance wise, seeing as it is week to the type built around doing that type of thing, so it really is just a minor nitpick on my part.
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Old 06-11-2016, 05:10 PM   #43
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Playing Devil's advocate, I like the idea that Duosion has something up on Reuniclus. It doesn't quite do ASB too much of a service most NFEs are just worse carbon copies of their higher forms.
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Old 06-12-2016, 08:15 PM   #44
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Poliwag (Water): Poliwag cannot run on land so prefer swimming to walking. They secrete a sort of slime when out of the water, which makes them more slippery and harder to grab. Their bellies are transparent, showing what is actually a spiral of their internal organs. These organs move hypnotically, and can be used to perform sleep-inducing Hypnosis without the use of Psychic energy. This also makes sleep-inducing Hypnosis slightly more effective.

Poliwhirl (Water): Poliwhirl are capable of decent movement on land, though they still prefer the water. They secrete a sort of slime when out of the water, which makes them more slippery and harder to grab. Their bellies are transparent, showing what is actually a spiral of their internal organs. These organs move hypnotically, and can be used to perform sleep-inducing Hypnosis without the use of Psychic energy. This also makes sleep-inducing Hypnosis slightly more effective.

Poliwrath (Water/Fighting): Poliwrath are the best and fastest swimmers of all the Poliwag family, but are just as adept on land as they are in the water. They secrete a sort of slime when out of the water, which makes them more slippery and harder to grab. Their bellies are transparent, showing what is actually a spiral of their internal organs. These organs move hypnotically, and can be used to perform sleep-inducing Hypnosis without the use of Psychic energy. This also makes sleep-inducing Hypnosis slightly more effective.

Politoed (Water): While not as good a swimmer as a Poliwrath, a Politoed can jump much farther. Politoed are equally adept on land or in water. Politoed may croak as a move. This has effects identical to Charm against any member of the Poliwag, Tympole, Froakie, and Croagunk in the area. All of the Poliwag family secretes a sort of slime when out of the water, which makes them more slippery and harder to grab, though Politoed is not as slippery as its tadpole counterparts. Though they have lost their transparent skin, their Hypnosis is still more effective.

The Hypnosis thing should have already existed. I also broadened Politoed's SC move a little and at least gave him a bit of a Hypnosis boost to make him worth considering over Poliwrath.

Kangaskhan (Normal): Kangaskhan come in both genders, though females are much more likely to have babies with them than males are. Along with battling, a Kangaskhan is most concerned about its child. If an opponent injures the child, Kangaskhan will go into a blind rage against them, which will last until either the offending Pokémon or Kangaskhan is unconscious. During this time, Kangaskhan's offensive stats are significantly enhanced, making them a good deal more aggressive, though they will continue to perform defensive techniques to help protect their baby, unlike states like Taunt. Kangaskhan without joeys are slightly less concerned about defending themselves, and as a consequence, will act slightly more aggressive and be slightly more agile, due to not having to worry about the safety of their child. Kangaskhan’s Comet Punch will always deal maximum number of hits. Due to having a wide variety of energy available, it is less proficient at maximising the use, resulting in suffering from slightly less type energy. In its Mega Forme, the child quickly matures. The joey will mimic all its parent’s actions, performing the same moves that the parent does at a quarter of the power, effectively giving all its attacks a 25% boost in power, provided both hits connect. The joey is also capable of performing attacks independently of its parent, though only at 25% of their original power, though it will still cost a move. They may also stagger their attacks if using the same move without using an extra move. Due to the power of Mega Evolution, the joey cannot be directly harmed, and area of effect attacks will not cause Kangaskhan extra damage as a consequence. Targeting the joey will not lower Kangaskhan's health, but it may stop the joey's attacks. All energy used by the joey is pulled directly from the parent, who feeds the joey with energy to maintain its temporary matured state. Kangaskhan without a joey cannot Mega Evolve.

Confession: this SC is a carbon copy of an old sig I had before MegaMom was a thing and I was lazy and just copied the sig. Feel free to yell at me if you feel like the no damage to the Joey thing is overkill.

Reuniclus (Psychic): Reuniclus's body is surrounded by a liquid chemically similar in composition to a cell's cytoplasm, acting as a protective buffer from the outside environment. The damaging effects of weather, such as Hail or Sandstorm, will be buffered by this coating of liquid, and statuses, like poison or burn, may be weakened or distributed. Toxic will take an extra turn to set in as it diffuses through this liquid coat. As their brains are a fusion of two, they are more resistant to mentally-affecting attacks. Their arms, despite being primarily composed of this liquid, are actually very firm, strong and prehensile, allowing for powerful attacks and a great ability to throw or smash. They levitate by default.

Not sure how I feel about the Ice thing; Duosion's boost is almost kind of meaningless but I guess I can extend it.
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Old 06-12-2016, 09:11 PM   #45
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> Ninjas

Accelgor (Bug): Accelgor are extremely speedy and nimble, able to move at almost lightning speed. They can levitate. Their body is very moist underneath the wrappings and they will feel unenthusiastic if in a dry environment. In addition, when they fall below 1/3 health, they become empowered, their STAB attacks dealing 10% extra damage.

Greninja (Water/Dark): Greninja is the fastest and most agile member of the Froakie line, able to move as if it is teleporting, making it better at evading attacks, and easily cling to walls or hide in dark corners. They have an extremely keen sense of aim, and are able to reliably hit targets with projectiles even at a significant distance. Their water attacks have a "sharp" quality to them, making them more likely to break through hard objects and causing them to lose less momentum and power when breaking through screens or other shields. As starter Pokémon, their Water-type attacks are slightly more powerful when they drop below 1/3 health.


Not sure on Greninja, but can we give Accelgor for sure a substitute boost either consuming less energy or charging at a faster rate?
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Old 06-13-2016, 06:17 AM   #46
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Politoed (Water): While not as good a swimmer as a Poliwrath, a Politoed can jump much farther. Politoed are equally adept on land or in water. Politoed may croak as a move. This has effects identical to Charm against any member of the Poliwag, Tympole, Froakie, and Croagunk lines in the area. All of the Poliwag family secretes a sort of slime when out of the water, which makes them more slippery and harder to grab, though Politoed is not as slippery as its tadpole counterparts. Though they have lost their transparent skin, their Hypnosis is still more effective.

I think you missed 'lines' out of the croak thing.
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Old 06-14-2016, 01:37 AM   #47
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> Ninja
You forget Ninjask and co.

But let's not do anything SC-wise regarding Substitute for awhile, it really needs to be fleshed out much better. Sub will always be awkward, let's stay away from that for awhile. Also Greninja needs no help.
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Old 06-14-2016, 03:50 AM   #48
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I actually like the idea of Accelgor/Greninja getting a sub boost! If we go with Alto!rework of sub, just make it to where they are less affected by the diminishing returns.

But yeah. No point in changing it until a rewrite is decided on.
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Old 06-19-2016, 09:46 AM   #49
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So, this is near and dear to my heart and the thread has yet to close

Cryogonal (Ice): Cryogonal levitate by default. The chain of ice produced from their face can be lengthened and shortened at will for slight energy cost and also used to manipulate items or foes. Moves like Light Screen and Reflect are stronger and faster to set up when used by Cryogonal. Cryogonal's Attract and similar moves show the target an image that they would find alluring. This works on male and female Pokémon. They are inorganic. Their icy bodies are extremely cold. Any Pokémon coming in contact with them will be chilled similarly to Icy Wind.

The issues with the SC (in bullet points or short paragraphs, if applicable)
The light buff should be a bit more extended

The proposed changes or additions (please do not rewrite the SC yourself)
Cryogonal is a unique Ice type that learns Solar Beam, both reflective panes, confuse ray, acid armor, signal beam, magic coat, flash cannon, iron defense.

It has a natural bond to light, and I was wondering if it could get that feature extended. Maybe have this feature where its own body stores light that allow for light based move to charge faster. In the absence of light, they emit a chilling glow. Inside a blizzard/hail, they blend in better due to the reflective surface bouncing off the snow. Something to what glaceon has + light moves.

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Glaceon (Ice): Members of the Eevee line have sensitive hearing, at the expense of being more vulnerable to sound-based status techniques like Supersonic. Their Baton Pass and Helping Hand attacks take slightly less time and energy to perform compared to other Pokémon. Glaceon's light colouring and ice-like body patterns allow them to hide better among ice and in blizzards. Glaceon deals slightly more damage with Ice typed attacks than usual, and their frigid bodily temperatures cause physical contact to chill opponents more than normal. Their Hail attack is more potent than normal and, using a move, they may create hardened ice crystals over their body, reducing incoming physical damage by 10%. These crystals fade naturally after sustaining a few blows.
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Old 06-19-2016, 09:48 AM   #50
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Sorry it can wait until next month.
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