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Old 05-11-2011, 01:58 PM   #101
Talon87
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Just watched Episode 06 with Nutbladder. Disappointing episode. Aside from the frustration with Kaiji's behavior in the first episode, this may be the weakest episode yet. That isn't to say that it was necessarily bad, but it was a shameless bridge between 05 and 07 that offered next to nothing we didn't already know. Hopefully Episode 07 will be epic to make up for this disappointment. And hopefully 07 will also lend us closure to the chinchiron arc. Whether Kaiji escapes from the underground next episode or not until 08, fine, but I just want the arc to properly end next episode: because this is bullshit that they did pretty much nothing in this episode.

Grumblings aside, it was pretty damn epic when the 45's came over. And how Ohtsuki's beady little eyes grew wide with hostility and fear. SERVES YOU RIGHT, FUCKER! You and your ass-fuck buddies can go rot in hell!

Spoiler: show
So they've bet 507,000 perica as one entity, right? It's not as though they've bet 507,000 perica each. They basically gave Kaiji their money and said "Have fun. Make it grow." So ... supposing Kaiji wins, which he has to at this point (or else it'd be Game Over and they'd all be fucked for life), how much can we expect Ohtsuki to owe them? Theoretically, he'd "only" owe them 507,000 perica, right? Unless they can somehow pull off the triple (possibly?) in which case he'd owe them 1,521,000 perica. While this is a nice lump of change, (a) it isn't enough to bankrupt Ohtsuki, who was said to have 10 million, right? and (b) it isn't enough to sponsor each of the six 45's for the One-Day-of-Freedom ticket. That ticket costs 500,000 perica a piece, so it'd only be enough to buy two men their freedom.

In which case, given what I've said just now, ... it may mean that we actually have two more episodes to go before this arc ends, not one. The inevitable will happen next episode, no doubt, but depending on how long they draw it out, we may not get to many more dice rolls until next episode. Meaning it won't be until Episode 08 that the arc would be ready to end.

There's also one final problem ...
Spoiler: show
Ohtsuki may decide to quit after this gamble and to never allow Kaiji or the other 45's back into the gambling circle. So ... the money Kaiji's about to make may be the only money Kaiji will ever be able to make. In which case, the 45's are kinda screwed: sure, they got their revenge, but they won't have enough cash to buy everyone's freedom.

There is one possibility, but it'd be ludicrously unlikely. If it happens and it's random, it'll be kinda epic but kinda deus ex machina-ey. If it happens and there's a rhyme and reason to it? It'll be mega-fucking-epic and the highlight of the Spring 2011 anime season thus far. What is that possibility?
Spoiler: show
Three things have to hold true:
1) Ohtsuki rolls 1-1-1 and is obligated to pay triple what everyone bet. But I don't see how this could happen given how we suspect he's rigged the dice.
2) Kaiji has to roll 6-6-6 and thus obligates Ohtsuki to pay him triple what he bet.
3) Kaiji forces Ohtsuki to respect both rolls and argues that their effects stack, meaning Ohtsuki owes Kaiji a total of nine times what he bet. In which case he'd definitely have enough money to buy everyone's freedom: 507,000 times 9 is 4,563,000 which, when you subtract out 500,000 x 6 for six tickets to one day of freedom, means the 45's would still have 1,563,000 left over. It'd also put a serious dent in Ohtsuki's pocketbook. It'd be like half the fortune he's amassed during his time in the underground.

The problem with this possibility is that I don't see it happening. (It requires too much cooperation on Ohtsuki's part.) But it's the only possibility I can see given what I wrote in the second spoiler box.

If spoiler box 3's supposition comes true, then this arc will definitely end next episode. Or at least the gambling part of it will. If spoiler box 3's supposition holds true, and if spoiler box 2's supposition holds false for some crazy reason, then we'll probably not see the gambling end until episode 08 two weeks from now.

Last edited by Talon87; 05-11-2011 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 05-11-2011, 03:03 PM   #102
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Like I said, I was going "This is boring!" just like the spectators watching the gamble were, but the part at the end...

Spoiler: show
where Kaiji puts down 52,000, pretty cool I guess, but THEN all his bros walk up and slam down their entire wads of cash too made it ALL worth it.
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Old 05-11-2011, 03:22 PM   #103
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Yeah, that was awesome. It's just ... for me, it didn't make it all worth it. ^^; It was a great scene, but it didn't require 19 minutes of lead-up. It required like 5.

If you read my last post, I have something to add on which I just realized when watching parts of the episode again: Kaiji can end this in just the one episode next week. And that probably is what's going to happen.

Spoiler: show
Ohtsuki has to deal twice. I completely forgot about that. So Kaiji's already got him ensnared for, minimum, two separate rolls of the dice. So here are the possibilities for us to consider ...

Round One:
Kaiji has to win this or else the show would be over. So we know he'll win this. Which mean there are only three possibilities if you assume no stacking of dice roll results:
1) either Kaiji rolls 6-6-6 or Ohtsuki rolls 1-1-1
2) either Kaiji rolls 4-5-6 or Ohtsuki rolls 1-2-3
3) Kaiji rolls a regular roll which trumps Ohtsuki's regular roll
If it's case #3, then Kaiji will double his pot. It'll go from 507,000 perica to 1,014,000 perica. If it's case #2, then he triples his pot and goes to 1,521,000. And if it's case #1, he quadruples his pot and goes to 2,028,000 perica.

Suppose it's case #3 (the tiniest reward). Even if it is ...

Round 2:
Kaiji doesn't have to win, strictly speaking, since we don't yet know anything about the amount he'll bet. But it's safe to say he has to win because it's equally safe to say that after this roll Ohtsuki would NEVER allow him or his fellow 45's to ever gamble with them again. So once again, the only realistic possibilities are:
1) either Kaiji rolls 6-6-6 or Ohtsuki rolls 1-1-1
2) either Kaiji rolls 4-5-6 or Ohtsuki rolls 1-2-3
3) Kaiji rolls a regular roll which trumps Ohtsuki's regular roll

Assume that Kaiji bets everything again. We assumed, in the worst case scenario, that he had amassed 1,014,000 perica. That means that if he can win via case #1 this round, then he'd (net effect) quadruple his pot, giving him 4,056,000 perica. This is enough to buy the 45's freedom for a day. If we assume that he wins via case #2, then he'd (net effect) triple his pot, giving him 3,042,000 perica. This is enough to buy them freedom for a day. (Just barely enough for all six!)

So, given this, and given how Fukumoto likes to build the suspense and play things up and whatnot, here's what I think will happen ...

Round 1:
Kaiji will win with a regular dice roll over a regular dice roll of Ohtsuki's. Thus, he will "only" double his pot, bringing him from 507,000 perica to 1,014,000.

Round 2:
Ohtsuki will roll a strong roll -- maybe a 6 -- but Kaiji will manage to roll the 4-5-6, thereby tripling his pot (because he will put it all on the line again) and allowing him and the 45's to buy their freedom for a day.
-OR-
Ohtsuki will roll a very strong roll -- like 4-5-6 -- but Kaiji will manage the miraculous triple 6 and thus quadruple his pot, forcing Ohtsuki into owing him 4,052,000 perica. Half of the fat asshole's fortune. And more than enough to buy the 45's freedom for a day. Plus give them some money to use on the outside should they so choose.

Either way, I don't think Kaiji will be able to escape from his captors. Even if he does, I don't expect that he'll be able to elude them for very long. I think Kaiji's meal ticket out of here is one he doesn't realize he has yet -- the interest of Teiai's second-in-command. I have a feeling that he's watching this match, he's going to be really impressed with Kaiji for having deciphered the rigged game and tactfully pushing Ohtsuki into exactly the position he wanted him in, and he's going to send for Kaiji once this match is over. Kaiji will be escorted to the VIP room by the suits. There he'll meet Teiai's #2. And he'll be given an offer he can't refuse: his freedom in exchange for service to Mr. Second-in-Command. Or something. Who knows.
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:26 AM   #104
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I saw episode 6 as well. For an anime that has only 13 episodes, it dragged on pretty long. Other than that, there weren't really any surprises.

Also, the "lady making meaningless quotes from the show" joke is getting old. She needs some kind of new role.
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:21 AM   #105
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Yes, it's true. It didn't have to be that way. They could have easily wrapped up Kaiji losing 40,000, winning a bit, explaining his plan, then commenced the FUCK YEAH moment all before the commercial break. Maybe they dragged it out because that was such an END OF THE EPISODE moment?

Talon said that Kaiji has to win this or else the show would end. You're probably right, but I'm still not ruling out the possibility of him losing. I mean, this is KAIJI we're talking about here. Isn't the whole point of the story for him to get screwed over at every turn? Maybe he loses and gets a death warrant from the 45s for losing all their money, but is "rescued" by the 2nd in command, who is nevertheless impressed with Kaiji, and forces him into an even higher stakes gamble to pay everyone back.

Far fetched, I know. Losing here would probably be too much. Ohtsuki is just too much of a dick, nobody wants to see him win. You could bring up Hyodo's victory as a counterpoint to this, but, that's HYODO. He's the final boss of the entire series. He has an aura of invincibility around him ... Ohtsuki has no such aura. He's just a fucking dick, and we want to see him get owned!
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Old 05-12-2011, 09:17 PM   #106
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Finished the episode, I dunno about you lot, but it was pretty darn exciting. Yeah not much happened, but this is Fukumoto we're talking about. He builds up hype and tension like nobody's gamble. Sure, I wanted to see Ohtsuki ground into paste, but the higher the beam he has to walk on, the more horrific his screams when he falls off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
You and your ass-fuck buddies can go rot in hell!
But they're already there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Spoiler: show
So they've bet 507,000 perica as one entity, right? It's not as though they've bet 507,000 perica each. They basically gave Kaiji their money and said "Have fun. Make it grow." So ... supposing Kaiji wins, which he has to at this point (or else it'd be Game Over and they'd all be fucked for life), how much can we expect Ohtsuki to owe them? Theoretically, he'd "only" owe them 507,000 perica, right? Unless they can somehow pull off the triple (possibly?) in which case he'd owe them 1,521,000 perica. While this is a nice lump of change, (a) it isn't enough to bankrupt Ohtsuki, who was said to have 10 million, right? and (b) it isn't enough to sponsor each of the six 45's for the One-Day-of-Freedom ticket. That ticket costs 500,000 perica a piece, so it'd only be enough to buy two men their freedom.
I think if Kaiji gets 6-6-6, but Ohtsuki gets 1-2-3, that'll really fudge him up. Ohtsuki pays double, then triple because of Kaiji's win. It'll be enough for all six men to buy their ticket out (507,000 each). It's also 30% of Ohtsuki's life savings, though I don't expect it's enough to bankrupt him, so the wager might increase. Kaiji also owes Ohtsuki cash, doesn't he? Or at least I thought he did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
If spoiler box 3's supposition comes true, then this arc will definitely end next episode. Or at least the gambling part of it will. If spoiler box 3's supposition holds true, and if spoiler box 2's supposition holds false for some crazy reason, then we'll probably not see the gambling end until episode 08 two weeks from now.
Feels like two more episodes to me.

I should note that there's only three gambles in Part 2 of Kaiji, unlike in Part 1 where there were four. So, I was always expecting this arc to last 8-9 episodes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by big bad birtha View Post
I saw episode 6 as well. For an anime that has only 13 episodes, it dragged on pretty long. Other than that, there weren't really any surprises.

Also, the "lady making meaningless quotes from the show" joke is getting old. She needs some kind of new role.
Wait, the anime is 13 episodes? Are you sure?

And this is the first time I've seen the lady, I usually skip the horrendous ending because of MIKOKO's aggresive rape of my eyes.

She has a nice voice, and I love her teeth!
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Old 05-12-2011, 09:53 PM   #107
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What teeth? One thing I find revolting about her is that she has like no mouth. It is positively minuscule. One of the several things which makes her look like a Hollywood alien to me. [/jerk]

Doppel, did you read my second post? (the one with what could be called Spoiler Box #4?) I think I've figured out how Kaiji can realistically bankrupt Ohtsuki WITHOUT requiring the dice roll effects to stack. (Which could be important b/c I seriously doubt Ohtsuki would allow a 4-5-6 to stack with a 1-2-3 or a 6-6-6 to stack with a 1-1-1, especially if he's the one on the receiving end.) but as you've also observed, if stacking is allowed then it's certainly easy to see how Kaiji might destroy Ohtsuki. Only problem is, Ohtsuki ought to be able to avoid rolling bad rolls (since we know he's cheating somehow), so I still don't think it's realistic to expect the stacked-results scenario to play out.
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:16 PM   #108
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We're talking about the girl at the end and not Mikoko right (in retrospect my edit was a bit ambiguous). Unfortunately, I've already deleted the episode so I can't double check, all I've got is an emotional memory to go on. Not very reliable since all I remember feeling was being smitten by her orthodontist's handiwork.

I read your deductions after I threw out that speculation. I'm really buying into Kaiji saying he only has one shot at Ohtsuki, I don't think Ohtsuki would allow Kaiji to reverse scam him a second time. If Ohtsuki is mentally broken from losing to Kaiji, Kaiji won't force another bet just for humiliation's sake. Kaiji is no Akagi, he won't viciously pursue Ohtsuki's destruction after stabbing him once, so I expect Kaiji will be content at taking out Ohtsuki's fortune. It'll screw Ohtsuki because, in the end, the 10M Perica aren't worth a lot of yen in the real world, so one can assume Ohtsuki is still indebted to Teiai outside of the penal colony. Losing 6M is a big loss to his power and influence, he can't lend out much because his gambling reputation is FUDGED, and it's not enough for him to leave the colony and break his debt (probably). So if he loses the leadership position on top of everything, he's as good as cooked goose. He's only leeching here and now because it's a pretty good life, at least compared to how it would be for him on the outside.

I expect Kaiji will try to rally the gamblers against Teiai, as they'll probably want a piece of Ohtsuki after the match and he'll point out they've forgotten what freedom tasted like because of Teiai and Hyoudou. That'll also reinvigorate Ishida, I think Ishida played a role in the next arc against Kazuya, but I don't recall clearly.
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:29 PM   #109
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But you're not making more sense than me, I think, you're making less sense. Which is more likely of these two scenarios?

(1) Kaiji hoses Ohtsuki on this next throw of the dice. He then reminds Ohtsuki, "*COUGH* A-HEEEEM?" that dealers have to deal twice. Ohtsuki, in front of everybody (and the cameras!) isn't allowed to cheat his way out of this rule, isn't able to escape, and is forced to be dealer once again. Kaiji beats him once again and then everybody agrees to quit playing -- Ohtsuki enraged and Kaiji content that he got what he came for.

(2) Kaiji epically hoses Ohtsuki on this next throw of the dice. And I mean epically: Ohtsuki rolls 1-1-1 while Kaiji rolls 6-6-6. Kaiji then lets Ohtsuki go.

You're saying you think Scenario 2 is more likely. I think that's absurd, (a) because Ohtsuki won't roll such a bad roll and (b) because Kaiji is definitely going to get revenge for the "you gotta deal twice, Kaiji-kun" bullshit that was pulled on him in Episode 03. I think it's much more likely that, as I explained in Spoiler Box 4, what we'll see is:

Round 1: Ohtsuki rolls an unimpressive roll, Kaiji rolls a superior but also unimpressive roll. (Maybe he'll roll 4-5-6 here. Maybe. Doubtful.)

Round 2: Ohtsuki rolls a strong roll -- like a 4-5-6 -- but Kaiji shocks everybody by rolling 6-6-6, turning the tables on Ohtsuki on what had seemed like a winning hand and also draining him of a shitton of money.

You may be right. I dunno. I've never read the manga outside of the first chapter for the third arc (hence why I knew about the Mikokoro picnic scene), whereas you've peeked at tons of it ages ago. So I dunno. You may have subconscious insight that we don't. Or even without manga bias you may have guessed right. But I think Scenario 2 is way less likely than Scenario 1.
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Old 05-13-2011, 12:06 AM   #110
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Oh, I forgot about the dealer going twice deal. I'm still thinking of this in terms of mahjong, like another Han Chan after Akagi broke Yagi. Yeah, I think Ohtsuki will be broken on the second round as dealer.

Even if Kaiji takes 4M away from Ohtsuki, I don't think he'll go after the remaining cash. While it's true the guy is scum, he's not perversely evil like Hyoudou is. Kaiji is a human character and I think he'll take sympathy on him. I think Kaiji would have even had mercy on Funai if Funai would have been at risk of going to the penal colony.

I don't remember anything fron the Chinchirorin, all I remember with any clarity was the part with Kazuya. So my speculation is pretty honest.
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:35 PM   #111
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Man, it's a shame to see Triad drop the ball so badly. With Kaiji S1 it didn't really matter to them because they held a monopoly on the sub (for whatever reason), but with Kaiji S2 I think their brand is really going to take a beating as more and more people say, "Screw this shit, it's not like Nutbladder is that inferior to you guys" (which they aren't) and are going to abandon ship.

I say this because as of moments ago Triad became three episodes behind Nutbladder. That's because Nutbladder insanely (insanely, I tell you!) released their sub for Kaiji S2 Ep07 mere hours after the raws went up earlier today on Tosho. That's insane. Same day is impressive as is but same six-hour-window? Wow.

Hopefully Triad will get Episode 05 of their version out before episode 08 airs. Because if the last two releases are anything to go off of (06 and now 07), Nutbladder is bringing their A-game to speed-subbing this sucker and could well make the gap four episodes large if Triad doesn't hurry it up.

Will post again once I've seen 07.
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Old 05-18-2011, 04:19 PM   #112
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Call an ambulance. My heart has not beat this hard since Kaiji S1 Ep20 HOLY SHIT IT'S STILL POUNDING OUT OF MY CHEST OW OW OW.


Okay, no, don't really call an ambulance, but my hands are shaking -- literally (NOT JOKING) shaking right now -- even though Episode 07 was in hindsight a pretty slow episode developmentally. THAT'S JUST HOW FUCKING TENSE IT WAS!

Two things, each in their own spoiler box. One is about the dice, whose trick is revealed this episode. The remainder is everything else.

How the dice work:
Spoiler: show
CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLED IT!

Here's what bbb and Doppel said ...


And here's what I said!





Couldn't have done it without you, Kaiji, and your weird freaking out over the fact that dice are cubic. That was the clue. That was the clue that did it. Well, that and of course Miyoshi's notebook. But yeah. If you didn't already read my post earlier (because you didn't want to be spoilered by me), please go back and read it now. Here is the link, right here. I think you'll agree that in the pantheon of fans getting to say "I called it! ", this ranks up there when it comes to accuracy. Maybe not impressiveness, but accuracy? Hell yeah.


Discussion about Episode 07 besides the dice:
Spoiler: show
Wow, I DID NOT expect that this was how things were going to go down! Color me pleased and surprised on all fronts!

First off, I did not expect the chinchiron arc to be stretched out this long. However, unlike the disappointingly sluggish Episode 06 last week, this one felt slow too and yet strangely was incredibly exhilarating. Like I mentioned up top, by the end of the episode my heart was physically pounding out of my chest as though I'd just done something incredibly ballsy myself. That's how awesome Fukumoto is at telling stories, and that's how awesome the Kaiji anime's director is at translating Fukumoto's vision to the television screen. I really felt the adrenaline there with Kaiji!

Second, I did not expect the showdown with Ohtsuki to go down like this. I had figured one of two things was going to happen, as explained in my posts last time: either
a) Ohtsuki was going to use normal dice but so was Kaiji and, somehow, Kaiji was going to come ahead
b) Ohtsuki was going to use his rigged dice but, somehow, Kaiji was still going to come ahead
Either way, I didn't count on two busts and an interception. Which brings us to ...

Third, THE INTERCEPTION! I totally did not see that coming! That is going to create SO much fucking drama!

(1) Ohtsuki is screwed. Even if the Ohtsuki and his two goons physically bust Kaiji's head open, the others in the room will still all gang up on Ohtsuki and pry open his paws, strip off his pants and inspect his asscrack, etc, under suspicion that Kaiji saw some sign of cheating. And they'll find the dice. And Ohtsuki's screwed. Now, do I expect it'll come to this? No, of course not. Kaiji will survive. And be the one to show the room the rigged dice, too. But ...

(2) Ohtsuki is SO going to pin this on Kaiji. He's going to publically accuse Kaiji of having planned on cheating, on being the one who actually owned the 4-5-6 dice, etc. Whether the mob will believe Ohtsuki or not, we'll find out next week. But I expect Kaiji's about to get blamed for this.

(3) The night's over. So much for our expectations that Kaiji and the others would milk Ohtsuki dry! This is it. I expect, if not a full-out brawl next episode, at least for the suits to show up and call off the match and tell everyone to clear the fuck out if they know what's good for them. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe the suits and/or the mob will force Ohtsuki into still playing with Kaiji and with regular dice? Maybe? That'd be sweet. But I kinda doubt it. Who knows, we'll see next week.

But yeah. Wow. FUCKING WOW. What an amazing episode. Even if not much happened. Even if so much time was (from my perspective) wasted on explaining how the dice were rigged when I'd already figured it out courtesy of Kaiji and Miyoshi in Episode 4. Even still, this was a GREAT episode. UP THERE WITH SEASON 1 EPISODE 20 in terms of heart-pounding excitement.

I am so going back and re-watching the last moments right now. HOLY SHIT.
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Old 05-18-2011, 04:32 PM   #113
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Hilarious how the three of us came up with different explanations, and all three were brought up in the episode.

Haven't watched it yet, exam a comin' (hide your lover) but I did read spoiler box #1.
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Old 05-19-2011, 09:49 AM   #114
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Yeah, the tension in this episode totally reminded me of E-card in season 1. Got my adrenaline going too. And there wasn't even any horrifying drilling device in his ear!

Spoiler: show
It's appropriate then that the result came down to pure psychological warfare, rather than the rolls themselves. I will be looking forward to Kaiji's explanation as to why exactly he made THE LUNGE when he did. If that was me, I would have fallen for his fake swap out move during roll #2.

Good call on the double sided dice. I just didn't think he had the sack to use dice that could possibly be seen as unusual during a roll. At least weighted/magnetized dice look completely normal from the outside. But yes, the "dice are cubes?!" comment should have been a dead giveaway. Then again, Kaiji has a history of being fascinated by six sided objects.

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Old 05-19-2011, 01:12 PM   #115
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Awesome episode was thrilling and awesome. I had no idea what Kaiji was trying to pull, but what a way to end it!
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Old 05-19-2011, 05:50 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcsweeney View Post
Then again, Kaiji has a history of being fascinated by six sided objects.[/spoiler]
Hahahahaha. Perhaps that's why they decided to bombard him with dozens of six-sided objects when he has to go and play minefield mahjong in Volume 03.

Speaking of future volumes ... which leads me to future seasons ... which leads me to our current season ... y'know, I'm thinking more and more that ANN has got to be wrong about Kaiji S2 and that it can't possibly be a 13'er. It's got to be longer than that.

Absolutely no spoilers follow, but the post got very long. So click if you want to expand it and read on.
Spoiler: show
How much longer, I have no idea, but think about it: the Chinchiron arc will now have been at least eight episodes long by next week and, depending on what unfolds next week, it could possibly be even longer by the time all's said and done. Even at "only" eight episodes, that still leaves only five episodes for the pachinko arc. I'm having a hard time buying that. Why?

A, they have yet to introduce three of the characters we've seen in the OPs and EDs. One is Mikokoro, another is the guy with the Buddha statue, and the third is the pachinko arc's antagonist (the bishounen with the red hair and the smug face). Those'll take at least half an ep to an entire ep, leaving only four episodes for pachinko proper.

B, the only story arc Kaiji has ever told in so short a time was the tissue box story arc (Season 1, Arc 4) and that I think was a special case. While it's possible pachinko could be similarly short, it seems unlikely to me. We need to feel like we've gotten to know the adversary for a shorter story arc to work. Hyoudou was able to command a shorter story arc because he'd made constant appearances throughout the previous story arc, including the pre- and post-arc episodes on either side of it. The pachinko adversary doesn't have that same luxury.

C, if the writers felt like they were rushed to tell two great stories in only thirteen episodes, do you really think they would have squandered as much time as they did by stretching things out in Episodes 01, 06, and 07? Yes, 01 was a slow-'n'-easy start to the series that never felt too slow, and yes, 07's slowness really helped build the tension. (And I guess for Mcsweeney 06's did too, so I'll be happy to count that one in as well.) But would you really piss around trying to develop the tension for one story arc if it meant completely crapping on the second story arc's opportunities to be tense? No way. That'd be like giving your two sons $15 and $5 respectively for dinner instead of $10 each. So the only way the slow pacing in 01, 06, and 07 makes sense to me is if the writers know that they're not pressed for time and that they can take it as leisurely as they like, drawing scenes out for maximum high-tension impact.

So yeah. We'll have to wait and see what the deal is. But it looks like we're going to still be underground for one, possibly even two more episodes.

I wonder ... might Kaiji S2 be the first anime in years to feature the rare 20-episode length? You almost never see it in this day and age but back in the day 20-episode length series were not unheard of. That'd be pretty interesting. I say this because I still get the feeling that we're not going to be lucky enough to get Vols. 2 and 3 this year (wouldn't that be nice though? ) and I don't think I'd like it if, opposite of being too short, pachinko were stretched out too long to make Kaiji S2 fit the 24-episode schedule. If you assume chinchiron ends with Episode 09 and that Episode 10 is an interlude episode, that still means 14 episodes of pachinko if they decide to go that route. That or 13 episodes of pachinko + 1 episode from the start of Volume 3 showing the chapter currently captured in still-frame form by the season 2 ending. Seems a bit long. But if you assume a 20-episode season, then that means (assuming once again that 10 is an interlude episode) that you've got anywhere from 9 to 10 pachinko episodes (since 20 may or may not be a non-pachinko arc-proper episode as well). This length would be almost identical to the chinchiron arc's length and it'd make more sense to me than either:
a) the too-short 4/5 or
b) the too-long 13/14

Well, we'll just have to see.

And maybe we WILL be lucky enough to get Volume 3 this year too: maybe Kaiji plans on being a 39'er (:O exotic species #2!) and we'll see the show just smoothly blend from Volume 2's contents on into Volume 3's when the time's right. That could work. I have no idea what to expect from the minefield mahjong arc but knowing that it was the entirety of Volume 3 would seem to suggest that it's a far meatier arc than anything we've yet seen and could possibly, for all I know, involve multiple adversaries for Kaiji to go up against throughout the story arc. After all, mahjong is a four-player game, allowing Kaiji to have as many as three enemies to worry about during that arc.
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Old 05-19-2011, 06:27 PM   #117
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I don't think it'll take much to insinuate Kazuya is an antagonist. One just has to hear his name, and Kaiji will be after his blood.

Maybe the 13 episode deal was only thirteen episode titles were released?
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Old 05-20-2011, 03:46 AM   #118
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I watched the latest episode as well. It was yet another lovely episode as well.

I've been thinking. I wonder why the managers even care about getting their hands on a bunch of money. I was under the impression that perica was pretty much worthless to the managers. Sure, it buys refreshments and a trip outside, but they control the refreshments, and I'm not sure how their viewing the trip outside.
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Old 05-20-2011, 10:35 AM   #119
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They could use it to pay back their debts quicker.

It's indeed sad that Triad has fallen so far behind. No way in hell I or anyone else is gonna wait for them anymore. During season 1, when they were the only game in town, they felt like they had an obligation to do the sub within one week, since people were dying to see the new episode. Now that there's other sub groups, instead of stirring their competitive spirit, it's actually had the opposite effect and made them lazy. "Eh, whatever, we'll do it later. People can just use the other subs anyway."

It's just too bad that Underwater-Commie ran into the ring during episode 5, hit Nutbladder and Triad with a steel chair, and disappeared again just as quickly.
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Old 05-20-2011, 11:18 AM   #120
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Regarding Underwater-Commie: Agreed. A real shame. Someone on their team liked Kaiji enough to do the fan community that favor, but someone else on their team clearly prioritizes loli succubus (Astarotte), lolimoe char. design gag show (Nichijou), and hot springs indentured servant (Iroha) enough to say, "Y'know, we're not going to pick this one up. Our plate is full." DAMN IT! You could throw off any of those other shows -- tons of other groups are subbing them! -- and help us out with Kaiji! Nutbladder's translation quality wavers and Triad's work ethic is shit! You have both the work ethic and the high-quality translation!

Regarding why the managers would want money: yeah, I agree with Mcsweeney. Sometimes it's easy to get lost in the numbers of Kaiji because of the 100-factor difference between their monetary unit of standard discussion (the yen) and ours (the dollar). Their yen for the longest time has been more like our penny. (That's the approximation I'll be going by here, but look at real exchange rates to get a better picture of where the $ and Ľ stand in regards to one another today.) So like, Kaiji's million yen debt? He's "only" in debt several ten thousand dollars. (That's still very bad for a bum like him. But it's kind of not the sort of thing you'd expect the loan shark mafia to abduct someone over.)

So now consider that even though perica are worth 1/10 of a yen, they're still not totally worthless. Yes, having 10,000,000 perica would mean you only have $10,000. (Divide by 10 and then divide by 100.) But at the same time, that's a nice chunk of change towards paying down your debt and escaping this hell hole. Furthermore,, consider that half of your owed pay is right off the bat taken away from you to help pay down your debt for you. So really, if Ohtsuki has amassed $10,000 through gambles and paydays and such, he's probably also earned (but not been paid, because it was pay withheld) something like $1000 to $2000, depending on how long he's been down there, in withheld pay. Possibly he's earned even more than that. So if his debt was Ľ2,000,000, he might actually be halfway towards paying it off. Just one or two more years of paydays and gambles and he's home free. And don't forget! By being the foreman, he doesn't have to do the hard manual labor that kills off a lot of the debtors! His only concern is lung disease! So, with good luck, he could survive the next 1-2 years and escape back to the overworld, debt free and with 5-10 years shaved off of his life expectancy due to long-term pulmonary effects.

Kaiji threatens to completely shit on that and condemn the guy to 5+ years of servitude in the underground, possibly condemning the guy to death via lung disease. That's why this isn't just fun and games for him. That's why this isn't just about using Monopoly money to buy soda and chips. This is life and death.

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Old 05-20-2011, 11:30 AM   #121
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Assuming they would want to leave, I don't think Ohtsuki (and his cronies) lives are that bad in the penal colony, for the reasons Talon stated. Certainly he's not living on easy street, but consider Kaiji's miserable conditions prior to getting caught by Endou - a position of power might be net positive compared to how he was before coming down there.

"It is better to rule in Heck than serve in Heaven".
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Old 05-20-2011, 11:43 AM   #122
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I assumed the managers didn't even have a debt and simply worked for the higher ups in the underground world or something. I guess it does make sense if they did though.
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Old 05-20-2011, 12:17 PM   #123
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bbb, recall what Kaiji mentioned in the first episode: everyone in the underground not wearing a suit is in debt. Even the foreman's boss is a debtor. The only ones not in debt are (a) the suits and (b) the few Teiai management people down there. That's it.

Doppel, I don't think anyone would want to be down there over being in the overworld. Anyone who does is sick in the head. Maybe Ohtsuki is. Whatever. But short of being demented, I don't think you'd pick to be the 2nd-lowest rung on the totem pole (Ohtsuki is the boss of the lowest rung, he has at least two rungs above him) and miss out on so many pleasures in life just to be down there. It probably helps if Ohtsuki is 100% homosexual (not bi, not straight). It probably helps that Teiai lets him have cigarettes and beer. But he still has zero television, zero books, zero newspapers, zero quality food, etc. That and the fact that each year down there probably shaves off a year to two years from his overall life expectancy.

If we want to look at the science of Kaiji, one thing worth considering is tuberculosis. A, the most common demographic to get it are the homeless and dirt poor. That's Kaiji's people. B, tuberculosis typically spreads slowly irl (e.g. people say it takes a month of closed-door cohabitation to get it from someone) but put people in that closed environment day after day after day and they're sure to get it. Chances are fairly good that Kaiji and the others have all been infected with TB. And we know that Teiai lets debtors die off rather than paying for their medical treatment. (Why would you spend millions on a debtor who only owes you tens of thousands and may never even be able to pay that little debt off via manual labor?) So if you think about it, it's in everyone's best interests to escape the underground. They're all already screwed most likely, having been infected by the bacterium. But if it's not the drug-resistant kind, they can hope to get back to the surface world as quickly as possible and undergo the classic four-drug regimen for a year. The longer they stay down there untreated, the more likely their TB is to kill them.

This is of course total speculation, not something Fukumoto has shown any real signs of exploring. (No coughed-up blood, no lung x-rays, no mention of specific diseases by name, nothing other than the triage scene we saw in Episode 4.) But it's something to consider as a real-world argument against the case for trying to live in the Teiai underground forever.
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Old 05-26-2011, 12:30 AM   #124
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Just finished Episode 08. It was a good episode. Not epic like 07, but that was because whereas Episode 07 was the climax of this story arc, episode 08 was the denouement. That stated, it was one hell of a denouement with some surprising twists and turns throughout. A slow first half but a strong second half very reminiscent of Kaiji's defeat of Funai aboard the Espoir as well as his defeat of Tonegawa in the final E-Card match. Very psychological.

Spoiler: show
Looks like Episode 09 will be the finisher for this arc next week. But the arc is as good as over and done with by the end of Episode 08: we know exactly how Kaiji and the 45s defeat Ohtsuki (using Kaiji's 1-1-1 dice), we know by how much they hose him (15+ million perica), and we know how they can afford to buy their freedom and hope to do something on the outside (each of them gets ~2.3 million perica, five hundred thousand of which he puts towards buying his freedom for a day and the remainder he puts towards usage on the outside in trying to secure his permanent freedom). We know how they managed to get Ohtsuki to go along with it (having mob rule w/ tens of eyewitnesses not allowing Ohtsuki to escape, though certainly having Group C's foreman there was a probably unexpected but incredibly helpful boost*), etc. Everything's pretty much been answered. The only remaining question is whether Teiai's No.2 will have the suits escort Kaiji to the VIP lounge now (before he has a chance to buy his freedom for a day) or whether he'll not bother with Kaiji until some time later.

I had completely forgotten that 1-1-1 meant you won 5x your bet. Completely and totally forgot. As you all know, I've been thinking in terms of 2x's and 3x's this entire time. It had completely slipped my mind that a 5x winning hand existed.

I also didn't expect Kaiji would have had his own set of dice. I had considered it! But I thought, "Surely Ohtsuki and his goons would have known if Kaiji had done so. So surely not!" Guess I was wrong. And I guess the suits watching Kaiji via the CCTV didn't think it was their business to rat Kaiji out. (They're very hands-off, these Teiai suits! Just like onboard the Espoir!) I wonder what they're made out of though. They look pretty crude. Figure he made 'em from bones from the garbage bin, maybe?

LOL @ Ohtsuki's desperate snivelling disgusting attempts to convince the crowd "NO COUNT-O! NO COUNT-O! NO COUNT-O!" Fuck you, asshole! Shut the fuck up and sit yer ass down! Which reminds me ...





Best. Smackdown. This. Season.

That was when Ohtsuki realized he was a goner.


* especially since he, the Group C foreman, wasn't in cahoots with Ohtsuki -- thankfully! I half expected he was when he asked Kaiji to hand over the dice!
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Old 05-26-2011, 09:44 AM   #125
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This episode was great because it was Ohtsuki getting OWNED for 22 minutes straight. LOL at the guy in the crowd who yelled "What a dick!" He said what we were all thinking!
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