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Old 11-11-2011, 05:58 PM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Probably the worst cliffhanger in both seasons for me is this 19/20 interlude. If you guys can hold off for a week before pressing on to 20, you have willpowers of steel.

Readings your guys' thoughts and comments is an absolute treat. Can't wait to hear what you have to say about 20 once you've seen it.
I'm sure I can manage, simply because I force myself to forget about it. So, willpower, I have not. ^^;

Happy to oblige. I'm curious what I'll think too. Gah, the more I think, the more I think something bad happens, but I can't imagine the anime would do that to us, Gah! >.<
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:59 PM   #302
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Watched 20.

Spoiler: show
The answer became clear once I saw the guy left behind in the bathroom, coupled with the watch's reactions. ...No, it really dawned on me as soon Kaiji picked up a glass shard, though for a moment I was afraid he'd stab the other guy with it for whatever reason - especially since he didn't follow Kaiji out of the bathroom. ^^; Props to Kaiji for having the guts to do something like that, even if I think it's mad and not worth the pain. x.X Wonder if he can use some of the money to get reconstructive surgery afterwards. =/ (Can you even still hear without an outer ear? If so maybe there is no need to bother with appearances.)

Now he's planning to pull another trick from his sleeve... Oh boy. What a daredevil. How can he even bet 18mm if the device is no longer in his ear? Do they put another one in his right ear and move it to the same position? I'm guessing the whole act of sneaking cards was just a ruse to trap Tonegawa, including the blood marks(?).
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:29 PM   #303
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And now my sig from 3˝ years ago should make perfect sense to you. What it's depicting, and why I thought it would make for such an awesome sig. (Was really hoping it'd draw more people into watching Kaiji with us. Sadly, no one else did. )

I think this was one of the most epic moments I've ever seen in an anime. Will probably never forget the way that one suit says ...
Spoiler: show
"Mimi ... mimi ga ...!" --> "His ear ... his ear is ...!"

Now you see Kaiji ramping up the stakes, in a big way. And now you see the beginnings of something I'd alluded to in an earlier post and which Doppel worried was me spoilering you outright. I don't think it was; and now that we've reached 20 and you've yet to comment on it, I'm hopeful that I was right and you remain blissfully unaware of what this epic scene symbolizes for the overall story and for Kaiji-kun himself. In any event, I guess we will see -- and I will comment on this more later once you reach the final arc of Season 1.

As for the questions you asked ...
Spoiler: show
I can't touch all of them, but I can at least tell you: yes, they'll just move over to the other ear. The chairman is impressed with Kaiji's ingenuity and, more importantly, disgusted with Tonegawa's failure to identify what Kaiji had done until it was too late. So he basically rewards Kaiji by saying, "I won't have you killed for cheating like that " and "merely" re-attaches the device to his head.

In other news, calling him "the chairman" feels so weird. You don't learn his name until the final episode, but it's such a powerfully memorable scene -- or at least it was for us UPN Kaiji fans -- that you never forget it. It feels like we've always known it. And I guess, three and a half years later, it's easy to see why one might feel this way. But yeah: out of respect for your naivety , I'm going to try and hold off on using his name until you get to the final episode.
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Old 11-19-2011, 03:15 PM   #304
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Also Watched 20

Spoiler: show
Wow! >_> He cut off his own ear, I was definitely not expecting that! When I saw the glass shard, I thought he was going to keep a hold of it, and use it during the match, kinda like how you can trick lie detectors by poking yourself with a tack (or so I've heard)
Quite gutsy, I must say, I'm not sure I'd have done that, but I guess if you count what you could gain, it might be possible to get it reattached with your winnings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YUKI.N View Post
Watched 20.

Spoiler: show
The answer became clear once I saw the guy left behind in the bathroom, coupled with the watch's reactions. ...No, it really dawned on me as soon Kaiji picked up a glass shard, though for a moment I was afraid he'd stab the other guy with it for whatever reason - especially since he didn't follow Kaiji out of the bathroom. ^^; Props to Kaiji for having the guts to do something like that, even if I think it's mad and not worth the pain. x.X Wonder if he can use some of the money to get reconstructive surgery afterwards. =/ (Can you even still hear without an outer ear? If so maybe there is no need to bother with appearances.)

Now he's planning to pull another trick from his sleeve... Oh boy. What a daredevil. How can he even bet 18mm if the device is no longer in his ear? Do they put another one in his right ear and move it to the same position? I'm guessing the whole act of sneaking cards was just a ruse to trap Tonegawa, including the blood marks(?).
You figured it out? I was left in the dark until he revealed the loss.

Spoiler: show
I also thought for a second he was going to stab the other guy, but I couldn't think of any reason why he would. As for hearing, yes it would be possible (some animals have just a hole in the head for an ear), the ear part, is used to capture sound better and more efficiently, so he may have a harder time, but he'd still hear. I wonder, does he plan to sport the lack of his ear in future gambles to put his opponents at unease?

I have no idea what his next plan will be though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Now you see Kaiji ramping up the stakes, in a big way. And now you see the beginnings of something I'd alluded to in an earlier post and which Doppel worried was me spoilering you outright. I don't think it was; and now that we've reached 20 and you've yet to comment on it, I'm hopeful that I was right and you remain blissfully unaware of what this epic scene symbolizes for the overall story and for Kaiji-kun himself. In any event, I guess we will see -- and I will comment on this more later once you reach the final arc of Season 1.
I'm blissfully unaware at least.

Quote:
As for the questions you asked ...
Spoiler: show
I can't touch all of them, but I can at least tell you: yes, they'll just move over to the other ear. The chairman is impressed with Kaiji's ingenuity and, more importantly, disgusted with Tonegawa's failure to identify what Kaiji had done until it was too late. So he basically rewards Kaiji by saying, "I won't have you killed for cheating like that " and "merely" re-attaches the device to his head.

In other news, calling him "the chairman" feels so weird. You don't learn his name until the final episode, but it's such a powerfully memorable scene -- or at least it was for us UPN Kaiji fans -- that you never forget it. It feels like we've always known it. And I guess, three and a half years later, it's easy to see why one might feel this way. But yeah: out of respect for your naivety , I'm going to try and hold off on using his name until you get to the final episode.
Spoiler: show
My first impression was he was going to bet all the money he'd already gained in a winner-takes-all kind of way to save himself further pain (I would have), when he bet in millimetes though, I figured he was just going to use the Eye cup, instead of the ear. I guess I was wrong both times and they're just going to change ears. I'm assuming they're going to keep the millimeter's he's already lost?


Edit: Just finished 21.

*twitches*
I should have known they wouldn't have settled things in this episode..
AAAARRRRRGGGHHH!!! I want to know what happens next!!!!

Spoiler: show
Life or Death match!!!
Spoiler: show
Obviously he wins and lives...

How did he know? [rhetorical]

We see what he strategy he used, but apparently it goes much deeper then we thought. Or he's in trouble. >_>
Personally, I would have loved to win on the very last match, just in spite.


IMO, this one is so far the most exciting episode.

Last edited by unownmew; 11-25-2011 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:10 AM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Oh yeah, Majitani is voiced by Kazuki Yao, Kaiji's original CV. He also played Kitami in Kaiji's first season.
What do you mean, "Kaiji's original CV"? Hasn't Kaiji always had the same voice actor in the anime?
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:43 AM   #306
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Nope. Kaiji himself was first voiced in a series of gambling games from SEGA (originally, I thought they were Pachinko games, but the full blown version of The Bog features no Kaiji characters) as seen here.

Hagiwara got the job after his excellent portrayal of Akagi - which also happened to be his breakout role. Kazuki Yao is a pretty prolific CV, so I don't think he took it too hard. He's really good with over-dramatic guys with pure souls but his villains are a lot more sinister.

CVs I cannot stand as villains:

Tomokazu Seki
Hikaru Midorikawa
Akio Ohtsuka
Nobuyuki Hiyama

Kazuki Yao almost makes this list. Everyone here except Hiyama pisses me off when I hear them as enemies, which one could interpret as them being ideal for villains. Hiyama is just too cool to stay a villain, though. When he starts screaming, one wants to switch to his side no matter how nasty he's being.
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Old 12-07-2011, 02:07 PM   #307
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Talked to Yuki briefly about this on Skype the other day. She's made it through Episode 22 and has seen the epic scene which comes in between the two final arcs (or caps off the E-Card arc, take your pick). Just four more episodes before Kaiji Season 1 is over for her. I'm really very impressed -- very impressed -- that she's managed to stick to the one episode a week schedule all this time. It either means that she's not dying to watch Kaiji XP or else that she has willpower of steel. Probably somewhere in between those two , but in any event, great job replicating our Fall 2007+Winter 2008 experience of watching the show one episode a week.

Yuki, if you do a Google Image search for "Tonegawa," you get a Japanese scientist who won the Nobel Prize in Medicine. But change the search string to "Tonegawa Kaiji" (no quotes) and you'll get our Tonegawa. That stated ... LOL at how spoilery it is. Not for you it isn't, so by all means, click right here and lol away at the image results, but for unownmew or anyone else who hasn't gotten through Episode 22 yet, consider that link strictly off-limits.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:15 PM   #308
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That figurine is hilarious.
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:06 PM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Talked to Yuki briefly about this on Skype the other day. She's made it through Episode 22 and has seen the epic scene which comes in between the two final arcs (or caps off the E-Card arc, take your pick). Just four more episodes before Kaiji Season 1 is over for her. I'm really very impressed -- very impressed -- that she's managed to stick to the one episode a week schedule all this time. It either means that she's not dying to watch Kaiji XP or else that she has willpower of steel. Probably somewhere in between those two , but in any event, great job replicating our Fall 2007+Winter 2008 experience of watching the show one episode a week.

Yuki, if you do a Google Image search for "Tonegawa," you get a Japanese scientist who won the Nobel Prize in Medicine. But change the search string to "Tonegawa Kaiji" (no quotes) and you'll get our Tonegawa. That stated ... LOL at how spoilery it is. Not for you it isn't, so by all means, click right here and lol away at the image results, but for unownmew or anyone else who hasn't gotten through Episode 22 yet, consider that link strictly off-limits.
I also finished 22 last week, I just didn't comment on it, slated to watch 23 sometime this week, so
Do I get kudos too?

Spoiler: show

Wow! Way too Extreme! That's, epic, yet, grotesque, sadistic, maybe?
But WOW, Tonegawa actually chose to burn himself, that's commendable (though, probably the most logical, considering what happened to those who didn't..)

Anyway, wow, now it's time to fight the boss. I wonder what Kaiji will do? What's the purpose of that paper he's going to hide in his [bloody, missing] ear?
What game will they play? Each time I watch, I just want to continue, but I know I can't..

Also, WTH is with that figurine of Tonegawa buring himself? Why would someone want that? >_>
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:18 PM   #310
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Because Tonegawa is admirable.

A lot of the characters in Kaiji are garden variety scum. They have some caveats, but most of them are half-wits who crack under pressure. Ohtsuki and Ichijou in S2 fit this bill pretty well.

Tonegawa's intellect reflected his position in Teiai, and his pride was something equally rare, especially in a show that emphasized how humans slither when they're fudged hard. Kaiji hasn't defeated an opponent of that caliber since the first season.
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:44 PM   #311
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I suppose that makes sense, I just didn't really see what general appeal a figurine
Spoiler: show
of Tonegawa kneeling on the hot plate
had.
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Old 12-11-2011, 05:24 PM   #312
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Found this at the end of a doujin some time soon after you guys started watching Kaiji. Could not upload it because it'd be too spoilery what with you guys just then starting Kaiji, but now that you've seen the event, I think it's safe to share. You'll have to admit, it was pretty random to see this at the very end of an erodoujin.

(work safe, home safe, person looking over your shoulder safe)
Spoiler: show
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:19 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Found this at the end of a doujin some time soon after you guys started watching Kaiji. Could not upload it because it'd be too spoilery what with you guys just then starting Kaiji, but now that you've seen the event, I think it's safe to share. You'll have to admit, it was pretty random to see this at the very end of an erodoujin.

(work safe, home safe, person looking over your shoulder safe)
Spoiler: show
...Do I even want to know?

Thought/speculation about episode 22+ to come later in the week.
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:33 PM   #314
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It was completely random. I don't even remember which doujin it was in, simply that, out of the blue, that showed up on the final page.
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:14 AM   #315
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Gonna start up Kaiji 23 in a bit. Talon asked me to write my thoughts on where I believe the show's theme is heading, so I'll give it a shot:

Spoiler: show
I kind of doubt the message of the series has to do with "human relationships", given the betrayal(s) we saw in the first arc. Although human horse-racing and E-card demonstrated that people can be supportive, those acts felt minor in the grand scheme of things.

If it's about the "human condition", I'm not sure what exactly it's trying to say. That people are selfish and are easily tricked? Humans go to extreme measures in the name of greed?

If it's about whether gambling is good or bad for you, well... I don't think you guys would praise the series so much if it was pro-gambling. ^^; So I'm gonna place my bet on "gambling is bad, kiddies, don't do ii or you'll lose an ear".


Edit- Finished 23.

Spoiler: show
"Wow... This box is awesome!"

Oh, Kaiji. Lol at all the guys pointing out the flaws with his plan. Something tells me this isn't going to go as well as he hopes.

Maybe the message here is that you should cut your losses or quit while you're ahead. Gambling and/or revenge start a vicious back-and-forth cycle.

*sees tissue box on nightstand* ...*checks to see if she can insert somehing in the side* Nope, glued shut. =x

Last edited by lilbluecorsola; 12-16-2011 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:32 PM   #316
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I felt the theme of the series is that humans are selfish and fearful by nature, and so are easy to anticipate and manipulate. Individuals like Hyoudou with skills can rise in power by exploiting them, and human progress was only made because of this exploitation. A real social darwinian scheme of predator/prey interaction.

Kaiji himself is contending with this idea - he's at the interstice between the two worlds of "predator" and "prey". He possesses a unique nature. Kaiji has the skills of a predator, but thinks and lives in the world of prey. He believes people are fundamentally good and honourable, but is consistently frustrated by the reality that many of those he bands together with aren't like that. Hence his moniker, "The Suffering Pariah".

This is contrasted with "The True Pariah" Akagi, whose skills alienated him from conventional wants/needs, so he was always searching for a satisfaction through a test of his abilities.

I feel this is also the big contrast between Hyoudou and Washizu - Hyoudou isn't going to give up his materialism for his conceptual passions. He's a bit more mysterious than Washizu in that we don't know what his interests are or what drives him.

Washizu was simply bored with power, and looked for the next big rush. But his resolve wasn't grounded in trying to test his abilities, and is why at his core he's as scared and selfish as any of the people in Kaiji, but far richer. He's only convergently similar to Akagi, but that didn't mean he couldn't provide Akagi with the match of his life.
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Old 12-31-2011, 10:27 PM   #317
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*poke*

So what's going on with Kaiji, guys? Are you through 24 yet? 25? You're almost there! Eager to hear what your guys' thoughts are. I'm sure there will be lots to discuss once you reach the end of Episode 26.
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:12 PM   #318
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I'm still where I was last time (episode 23). XP Will watch 24 when I get back to the apartment. I think unownmew's on 25, he may have finished the series already.
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Old 01-03-2012, 02:22 PM   #319
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Sorry, I got distracted with another anime ^^;

I have one more episode to go for finishing.

To be honest, this final arc isn't quite as compelling to me as the previous one.

Particularly after
Spoiler: show
learning what his plan is for fixing the gamble, and
Spoiler: show
Learning the gamble is now determined entirely on luck
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Old 01-03-2012, 02:41 PM   #320
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Quote:
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To be honest, this final arc isn't quite as compelling to me as the previous one.
No, I quite agree. I think we all do. Depending on who you ask, people will say that the Tissue Box Raffle (what we've been calling "TBR") is either the least exciting or the second least exciting arc in Season 1. It's riddled with several problems (some of which are IRL problems and some of which are in-universe problems) that knock it down a few pegs. But that doesn't mean that it's a bad arc. In a show as excellent as Kaiji, even the weakest arcs tend to be quite strong. It's kind of like what happens when a student who got A's and B+'s in high school then goes to a college for the mentally gifted. He may be the stupidest kid there but it doesn't mean that he is stupid compared with the general populace.

Once you finish the season (that means once you finish Episode 26), be sure to check out this post I wrote in the summer and especially the figure that I link you to in it:
Spoiler: show
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Outside of the pachinko arc, all of the strategies Kaiji utilizes are fairly simple. But in any given story arc, one usually begins with the simplest least impressive strategies and works one's way towards the more complex satisfying ones.

And like I said before: imo, in hindsight, the Espoir arc is one of the weakest. It isn't bad -- in fact, imo it's quite good, so if you're not really digging it by episode 6 or 7 then there might be a problem -- but things only get better as you progress. Without going into details, I'd say ... see this chart. (36 kilobytes) Would love to qualify that diagram more, but I can't do so without getting your expectations up or down for certain segments, not to mention possibly spoiling things. You'll just have to watch the show first, and then come back and look at this chart once again and see if you see sense in it or not.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:00 PM   #321
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Well, I finished, and it certainly ends things with a bang.

Spoiler: show

I was NOT expecting Kaiji to lose though, even when things got luck based. I figured either the lot had been taken out for cheating purposes (though did not know how it would have been brought back in), and the box must have been taken from a different location)

Marking it inside the box had not occurred to me.. (Glad I wasn't the one betting there >_> )

The graph you linked detailing excitement levels of each arc seems to be pretty accurate for me so far as well.


Thank you for getting me to watch it.
Do I have to keep the same (wait) schedule for watching the second season, or can I marathon it? ^^;
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:14 PM   #322
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I think you can marathon the second half. That's what I'm going to do~
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:28 PM   #323
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Feel free to watch Season 2 at your own leisurely pace. While you won't experience the same near-heart-attack-inducing moments that we did last summer should you choose to not watch only one episode a day or even a week, you've already earned your Scout badge by watching Kaiji S1 one episode/week on average. Mission: Accomplished! And job well done.

I'll hold off on saying what I want to say because Yuki still hasn't finished the show and we know how she is with spoiler boxes. But yeah. Glad you've enjoyed the first season. If what I charted for excitement level has also been what you've experienced, then -- given what I charted for the next two arcs -- you know you're in for some good times.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:58 PM   #324
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Oh, a Scout badge? Why thank you. Would I get a Master Badge if I continue with the schedule? :3

For my thoughts as this matter draws to a close, I'd just like to say "Kaiji!! You are Absolutely Crazy!! But thank you for taking me on this harrowing yet thoroughly enjoyable journey. I can say, not a moment spent here feels wasted. I salute you for your losses, and rejoice in your gains. Thank you again, and Good Luck in the future!" *Bows out*
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:57 PM   #325
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Finished Kaji!

Spoiler: show
As soon as they focused on a shot of Hyoudou's hand lingering on the lot after he and Kaiji put it in together, I figured he put some adhesive onto it to make it stick to the bottom. The thought was supported by the hint that the paper was "soaked" with luck. Wasn't expecting him to simply fold it. XP


In the end, all I can say is "ouch, man". ='( Hopefully season two has a happier conclusion? May continue the weekly schedule from now on since I'm used to it. Though I might casually marathon when I've nothing else to do.
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