02-12-2011, 12:47 PM | #76 | |||
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Rin doesn't have a flat chest!
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02-12-2011, 01:20 PM | #77 |
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What? The fact that Rin's eyes turned a hypnotic red? I assumed it meant ...
A) Shirou was dreaming of sex with a hypnotized Rin B) Shirou was having sex with Dark Sakura in his dreams, and she took on the visage of Rin C) Shirou was having sex with Ilya in his dreams, and she took on the visage of Rin But all three were pretty outlandish so I didn't even bring it up last post.
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02-13-2011, 01:22 PM | #78 |
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Ilya Glomps Me, I Nosebleed:
So Ilya came out of nowhere and attacked me one day. (pic) And by "attacked me," I mean she jumped out of hiding and glomped me with a pouty face. What do I to turn her frown upside-down? Why, I invite her to my house, of course! Needless to say, Saber was not amused. But this was a very cool scene. Without actually coming out and saying it, Nasu more or less tells the player with this scene, "Ilya is looking around the house she would have grown up in had she been raised by Kiritsugu and not the Einzberns." It was awkwardly cute when she looked sad at the end and said that she was upset she hadn't been able to find the man her mission was to kill (i.e. Kiritsugu). She said it like that, but you know what she really meant was that she was sad that Daddy is really gone. Oh, Ilya, you poor thing ... A Surprise Meeting in a New Location: Rin tells me to meet her at 4pm after school at the Chinese restaurant in the business district. This was unexpected. New scenes this late in the game? Wow! I wonder what it looks like inside. I wonder if-- AUGH! What are you doing here!? This was a really cool scene. I really enjoyed it. Spoiler: show Dickworms: So, yeah: the Makiri lustworms. I had not remembered from my doujinshi purveys just how phallic these creatures were until I saw them in-game. They look like a bizarre fusion of a silverfish, a penis, and the LOLWUT pear. They just ... look so weird. >_> But it was pretty cool to learn all about Matou Zouken's usage of them in the scene where ... Spoiler: show Sakura in Heat: So, I've reached my first teaser for the route's promise of Shirou x Sakura action. But nothing more than this yet. Sakura has a number of times gotten red in the face and panty, but so far Shirou's still identifying it as "the flu" and Sakura is writing it off as "being tired" . To give you a feel for where I am ... Spoiler: show
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02-13-2011, 02:26 PM | #79 |
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True Assassin is Servant #7. He replaced Kojirou as the proper Assassin of the 5th HGW.
And a big reason Shirou hates Kotomine is because they're really alike. Kotomine even looks like Shirou in F/Z, though the similarities don't seem to have much bearing on what Archer thinks. Funnily enough, Kotomine also seems to have similar harem/seduction powers to Shirou, given his antics prior to the 4th HGW.
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02-13-2011, 02:31 PM | #80 |
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I thought so, too! Glad to hear I'm not crazy or imagining things. I thought the two were very similar as well.
You say True Assassin is servant #7. And I can see that being true, given that I've now seen his fight against Saber at the Ryudou Temple. But ... what does that make Sasaki Kojirou? Was he an imposter, summoned by Caster but never really a Servant recognized by the Grail? Or was he authentically Servant #7 and some sort of switcheroo took place between him and True Assassin? One thing is clear: where Sasaki Kojirou seemed more swordsman than assassin, True Assassin is totally what you think of when you think "assassin." The throwing daggers, the trickery, the crawling-like-a-shadow up temple rafters and along the grassy ground ... I just don't like how he is some identity-less Middle Easterner. I'd much rather he be a Heroic Spirit. But I even read the text in-game which confirmed that the Assassin Class is not compatible with Heroic Spirits, i.e. there really aren't any famous heroes in the history of Man who have been assassins. Wizards like Merlin, swordsmen like the Three Musketeers, lancers like Cu Chulainn, sure: but no assassins.
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02-13-2011, 02:55 PM | #81 | |
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Kojirou could be created because there was a vacancy open for a Servant, but he's more of a "substitute" Servant #7. The amount of mana that went into his creation was far less than a regular Servant, so he's literally only a fraction of the soul power of average Servants like Lancer or Archer. But, even though he's a substitute Servant, the fact that he was summoned means all the vacancies were filled, since only seven Servants can be summoned in any one war (more than seven occured in the 5th because they were hold-overs from prior wars). To summon True Assassin, Zouken needed to replace an existing Servant, and so he basically appropriated Kojirou as a start up cost for TA. So I guess it's like Yu-Gi-Oh!'s concept of tributing monsters to summon stronger ones.
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02-13-2011, 03:08 PM | #82 |
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02-13-2011, 04:28 PM | #83 |
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It only happened like it did in the 5th because Caster, a Servant herself, summoned an incomplete Servant with insufficient mana. Hassan is supposed to be the only being who can be summoned as Assassin, Kojirou is "bugged" as it were.
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02-13-2011, 07:47 PM | #84 | |
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Of Superheroes and Sakuras:
Okay, well, now once again I feel like I've gotten to a crossroads, but who's to say in hindsight whether the choice I was presented with will really have any bearing on the unfolding plot or not? Spoiler: show So anyway, we'll see how things play out as a result of this choice. Maybe it was just an artificial choice, I dunno, but it seemed pretty heavy-duty. I mean, it got the Archer treatment, the Ilya treatment, and the song "This Illusion (Piano Arrangement)" playing during it. So yeah: if that isn't over-the-top obvious that the scene was important, I don't know what is. Sakura, you're creepin' me out, girl!: There's this scene in the game where Sakura says: Quote:
RIDER! : Backtracking a bit to the scene at Ryudou Temple (Saber vs. True Assassin) ... Spoiler: show It was also really cool to finally, finally officially have her identity revealed. And her Mystic Eyes! Talk about great timing on my part to watch Kara no Kyoukai before picking FSN back up! I wouldn't have even remembered what the term "mystic eyes" meant from Tsukihime were it not for Kara no Kyoukai. So the whole explanation about Rider's particular flavor of Mystic Eyes and how they are of a legendary status not seen in the times of mortals was both well-understood and well-received. I didn't like the handwavey bullshit Nasu pulled, though, at the end of that fight scene. Spoiler: show Current Progress: The sex scene with Sakura at Maison d'Emiya. Leave it to Nasu to take a touching sex scene and muck it up with ridiculously corny dialogue. "Senpai ... is my body dirty?"
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02-13-2011, 08:11 PM | #85 | |||
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You chose wisely. Trying to protect the town would've lead to a Bad End, I think. Also,
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I should chime in that most of the H-scenes I've seen in VNs tend to be rather bad, yet Nasu's personal charm seems to amplify the abberance. But the awkward ones are the worst.
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ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望 今 信じあえる あきらめない 心かさね 永遠を抱きしめて Last edited by Doppleganger; 02-13-2011 at 08:16 PM. |
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02-14-2011, 03:21 PM | #87 | |
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That didn't happen.
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02-20-2011, 11:19 AM | #88 | |
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Disclaimer: this post contains major spoilers, but nothing that hasn't already been spoiled earlier in the thread back when our community was smaller and so we all just assumed that everyone knew certain major details. Lil' Blue, you're safe to read all of this.
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The Archer vs. Shirou fight is probably the climax of the path, if for no other reasons than: (1) should one enter it unspoilered, it is the point where one once and for all learns Archer's true identity, and (2) the bad-ass theme song "EMIYA" plays during the fight and is just so, so perfect But of course the scene offers more than these two things alone. As you mentioned, the scene is important because the future self chastises the younger self for his self-destructive dream -- a dream which we all admire. It is the ultimate tragedy that Archer, in successfully becoming a superhero, necessarily sacrificed some lives (cough cough) in order to save others. And that, afterwards, the people would reject him for his actions, despite the fact that he saved them, and he would become the pariah of his era. The thing which bugs me most about the fight is temporal logic. If Archer is the future Shirou, and if (as in the UBW path) the events of UBW are what is playing out, then it follows that Archer must have himself, as a young man, experienced the UBW path personally. This means two things for the plot: First, it means that we know that Shirou can't possibly lose the fight. For Shirou to die would be to introduce a paradox: for how could a boy who dies grow up to become the man who kills the boy later in the time-loop? It doesn't work. The boy has to survive such that he can grow up to become Archer. So if you think about it, this takes a lot of suspense out of the fight. Second, it calls into question why Archer would even attempt to kill his former self in the first place. Yes, I understand his motivations, but what I'm saying is that he should know full well that the past cannot be changed: that even if you are summoned into the past, everything you do there will all lead towards the future you just came from. I suppose the answer to the temporal paradox is the supposition that Nasu does not share in my theories of time travel -- namely, that he subscribes to the belief that multiple timelines originate from any one action-point in time and that he also believes that his creation, the Throne of Heroes, transcends all timelines -- and thus you can theoretically have Archer be the end-result of Shirou from Path 4 (Heavens Feel Unwritten End?), and you can have that same Archer be summoned into the Fate, UBW, or HF paths without any problems. In other words, perhaps Nasu believes that you can change the past with time travel. But I say bah to that. :\ This is where we have creative differences ... although I guess that's not the right term for it since I'm not on the creation staff for this game. ^^;
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02-20-2011, 01:17 PM | #89 | ||
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Lancer is really awesome in UBW but F/ha is really where his character grows. If the Master-Servant dynamic is a major selling point to FSN's plot, you can imagine Lancer had such an interesting relationship with his original master.
We also get the TYPE-MOON version of his past, which is surprisingly accurate to the original legend (as opposed to Rider's...or Saber's). Quote:
1. It was for his own personal satisfaction to kill Shirou, as if reaffirming his pessemism was correct. 2. A temporal paradox. What Archer was gambling on in killing Shirou was the hope that UBW Shirou was going to become an Eirei. Records in the Throne of Heroes are composites of information from all time-lines, and they're constantly being drawn from the time-lines, it's not a one-time copy/paste, it's more along the lines of a computer running on vital resources in a system32 file. Archer wanted to delete a vital file in system32, which he hoped (he wasn't sure, and had a lot of doubts given he existed) would sublime reality and free him of his torment. If it wouldn't, he'd settle for #1. Quote:
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02-20-2011, 02:15 PM | #90 |
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Yeah, see, I think that's dumb. But whatever. I'm still enjoying the ride, so I can handle a few bumps in the road ...
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02-20-2011, 03:16 PM | #91 | |
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Quote:
Anyway, finished UBW. I pretty much agree with Talon's complaints about the ending, but otherwise I very much enjoyed it. Question: I'm missing one final CG after the one of Rin sitting on a desk with the sunset coming through the window. Is this from the "Good" ending Dopple mentioned? Is so, how do I achieve this ending? Also, how does one go about docking onto Heaven's Feel? Should I just pay attention to Sakura from the beginning?
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02-20-2011, 03:23 PM | #92 |
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About how to dock onto Heavens Feel ...
Spoiler: show I was disappointed to discover that there was no Heavens Feel opening movie file. I was so certain there would be one. Oh well. Letting you know this so that you don't do what I did: panic that you may not have docked properly since you never saw the movie. (I quit panicking once I was already on, like, Day 6 or Day 7 and was clearly playing Heavens Feel but still had not seen a trace of any movie ... )
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02-20-2011, 03:25 PM | #93 |
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Yeah, the CG you're missing comes from the Good End.
I can't say I don't agree. It's needlessly complex, and the complexity only seems to arise because it has to tie into the TYPE-MOON world mechanics.
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02-20-2011, 03:51 PM | #94 |
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There's really no opening movie for HF? Darn, I was wondering why I couldn't find one when I searched YT.
I haven't particularly paid much attention to Sakura since I prefer Saber and Rin. I still support ShirouxSaber mainly due to the fact Shirou has you-know-what inside of him, so it makes symbolic sense. Rin's cool so I admire her, but I don't quite see her as a match for Shirou. Though UBW's ending did make me more partial to the idea of ArcherxRin, if that makes any sense. It's just that in my opinion I don't think any girl should settle for Shirou until he fixes that old-school "chivalric bordering on chauvanistic" view of his, which Archer thankfully seems to lack. Saber gets a pass since she has zero experience as a woman and therefore doesn't know any better, not to mention she lived during the age of chivalry anyway. That being said, I guess Sakura would be the best choice since she seems weak and in need of protection anyway. I just don't personally feel anything special towards her. We'll see if this path changes my mind. And Dopple, could you give me some advice on how to achieve the "good" UBW ending? I'm also curious to see how it turns out.
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02-20-2011, 07:10 PM | #95 |
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I just saw the dream sex scene with Rin. All I have to say is that those HYPNOTIC RED EYES ARE GONNA GIVE ME NIGHTMARES AHHH!!!
... Anyway, my theory is that the dream Rin is somehow related to the "True Assassin" that was just summoned. As "it" consumed the corpses at Ryuudouji and kept repeating "It is not enough", Rin's sexual advances towards Shirou in the dream seemed to echo those sentiments. I've been relatively unspoiled on the Heaven's Feel path aside from the knowledge of what Sakura eventually becomes (and only in name), so I'm pretty much playing blind from now on. All of these events and characters are new to me. o.o;;;
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02-20-2011, 07:37 PM | #96 |
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Rin and Shirou really work optimally as best friends/partners, not as lovers, though I like Rin a lot as a heroine. I agree that Saber x Shirou is best, and Archer seems to feel that way too (the memories of his life are rather vague, but the one scene he distinctly remembers is his first meeting with Saber). I wish Nasu had given a more satisfying resolution to the Shirou x Saber, Fate doesn't cut it.
Throughout the route make a lot of pro-Saber decisions.
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02-20-2011, 07:39 PM | #97 |
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Not a bad guess, but like Doppel said: it's all about the eyes.
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02-20-2011, 10:43 PM | #98 |
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I'm about to form a contract with Rin, and she's asking me whether I will obey her or not. I tested out both answers. Seems refusing actually nets a positive response, whereas accepting the condition places a geas of coercion on me. Talon, which option did you choose? I'm curious how this will affect the story later on.
As for the event that led to this proposal... Spoiler: show Btw, Talon, you may want to go back to the Ilya glomping scene and choose the second method of apologizing to her. ^~
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02-21-2011, 10:12 AM | #99 | |||
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I didn't explore the other options -- to me, that's sort of like cheating in a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book where you look at the outcome for both options before sticking with one -- so I can't weigh in on the ramifications for what having told her "Yes" would mean. Which brings us to ... Quote:
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(do not click unless you can fill in the blanks I wrote up above all on your own already) (see comments below for more about this) Spoiler: show There's a very, very famous wallpaper that spoiled some HF stuff for me ages ago. But it was also one of those things which had me interested in HF from the beginning. However, it's a big spoiler, especially if you say you've managed to avoid HF spoilers, so only click this if you're wanting to verify that you already know what I'm talking about, yet do so at your own risk. If you have successfully avoided HF spoilers, then this will be pretty devastating.
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02-21-2011, 11:03 AM | #100 | |||
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The reason I decided to try agreeing to it first is because I thought Shirou just might be stupid and desperate enough to do so. In this scenario, he's lost Saber and Rin seems to be the only one he can rely on. Maybe I just can't forgive him for being so easily trusting of his enemies in previous paths (*cough*Ilya*cough*). Certainly in real life I personally wouldn't agree to such terms, but then I also wouldn't go stupidly running into danger all the time like Shirou does. =x Having seen the animé first, I'm more familiar with animé Shirou's personality and view him as a seperate entity. Thus unlike the previous VNs I've played, I've discontinued the gamer thought process entirely and instead try to emulate the protagonist's. In that vein, I decided to lie to Sakura about the sex dream, since I see him as the type of guy who'd avoid the truth in order to protect somebody, as well as be too embarrassed to admit such a thing - especially to a girl he likes. We'll see how our paths may differ due to this decision. Quote:
(This is another reason why I'm exploring more options now in search of hidden gems. As a warning, option three produces a scary response.) Quote:
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