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Old 05-22-2011, 09:37 PM   #2526
Talon87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unownmew View Post
Well, for one, I don't know the age of that girl, she could be 8, or she could be 15, now, she's depicted as young, but that doesn't mean she is
The classic Etna argument. "She may look like she's only 10 years old, but since she's actually stated in-game to be 1,470 years old then it's all okay." No, it's not all okay. She was drawn in a sexual manner and in the body of a prepubescent child. The intent is clearly to sexualize children and to try to mask it as a-okay because "she's officially an old hag ;P". That'd hold up in a court of law about as well as saying that a work of art does not actually depict bestiality because the horse in the painting who has a human's dick up his ass is actually a human female named Roberta who merely was turned into a horse by an evil witch's spell. Well, that's hardly relevant to the state's case that the work depicts bestiality, now is it? Regardless of the horse's "true" identity, the painting clearly shows a man fucking a horse and thus panders to bestiality. Similarly, a work depicting a child in a sexual manner -- regardless of the child's stated age, mentality, origins, etc -- is pandering to paedophilia. Period.

If you want a simple proof of this, you need only consider some classic examples from the opposite camp: examples of girls who look older than they actually are, specifically who are legal minors but in the bodies of legal adults. These are girls most lolikons have rejected as being loli. Gee, I wonder why? Maybe it's because I'm right in that it's the looks that ultimately matter most, not the declared ages. These characters include, but are not limited to:
- the DOA sisters Kasumi (17) and Ayane (16) who have the bodies of women in their 20s
- Dizzy (3) who has the body of a woman in her 20s
- Harumi (3) in Irresponsible Captain Tylor looks like she's in her 20s
- {spoiler} (10) in Planetes looks like she's in her late teens or early 20s

No one considers these girls lolis because, let's face it, most lolikons identify themselves as liking girls who look like little underage girls and behave like little underage girls.

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Originally Posted by unownmew View Post
you however, placed a definitive age on her against the will of the artist (unless her age is specified on another page of the comic? I only saw the one page, so I can only say things are vague.)
As explained above, the official age is of no more importance than the name of the publisher or the year in which the comic was written. She could be his 30-year old chemistry teacher transformed by a magic potion into the body of a what looks like (and is never specified to be) an 8-year old's body and I would still say that the scene depicts, and the author encourages, the sexualization of children. What would matter to a court, and what should matter to each of us deciding for ourselves whether we think what we're seeing is appropriate or not, is what is visually depicted and not what the text bubbles try to excuse away like some cheap Monopoly-style Get Out Of Jail Free card.

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Originally Posted by unownmew View Post
Thirdly, is more about personal opinions and terminology. "Fucking an 8-year-old up the ass" is meant to carry a vile tone to it
No: sugarcoating it by wording it as politically correctly as possible carries the more vile and sinister undertone to the use of the word "fucking"'s more brash overtone. Would you have me say "partook in carnal pleasures with a budding woman"? No way am I doing that: that's the sort of language a paedophile would use to try and paint this picture as rosily as possible. "He did her up the bum"? Is that how you'd have me say it? All cute and funny-like? How about no? It's not funny, it's not rosy, and so I'm not going to describe it in those terms.

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Originally Posted by unownmew View Post
for one, "Fuck" (at least used to long in the past), carried with it a very demeaning, hostile, and resentful connotation.
Maybe? But your anecdote about fornication under consent of the king is an urban legend. See: Snopes' disproof of F.U.C.K.. Too long? Then I'll give you the one sentence summary: acronyms are almost exclusively all from the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries whereas fuck dates back to at least 1503 (when it first made its way into the OED). There's more to it than that if you're interested.

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Originally Posted by unownmew View Post
Also, to me, "Abuse" means, doing something against someone's will, which will more often then not, hurt that person is some way (physically, emotionally, mentally, etc.), or forcing someone into doing something that they do not want to do.
The state almost agrees with you. Take out the "against someone's will" bit, leave in the rest, and you'll get the state's case for why statutory rape is still rape even if both parties are consenting. See: Mary Kay Letourneau. I personally would agree with you that if both parties are knowledgeably consenting that there is no abuse. However, I disagree that a child that young can knowingly consent. This is probably also true for the state, although I won't claim to know all the legal ins and outs of statutory rape cases. I would argue that even if the child is not in any physical distress (highly unlikely), the child may still wind up impregnated (vaginal), maimed (anal), and/or infected with STDs for life, some of which can be life-threatening. Few children this young know about these things and even if they did know or even if they had these things explained to them beforehand by the other party, I would still question that the child isn't the victim of a sexual predator and thus a victim of sexual abuse. Even if no "abuse" in the traditional physical sense took place (i.e. beatings), it's still abuse because a powerful entity is enforcing its will upon a hapless weaker entity. Even if that weaker entity appears to be consenting, problem is it doesn't know any better.

Think of it this way: would you agree with me if I said that a man is abusing his golden retriever if, every night when he comes home from work, he were to physically punt it like a football across his yard? Of course you would. Would it change your mind if I then told you, "But the golden retriever ...! He loves his master! And even after going through these experiences repeatedly, he still greets his master when his master comes home! And he still runs back to his master after having been punted! So if he's not showing signs of anger, depression, or violence towards his master, then why should we care?" Of course you wouldn't. Animal abuse is animal abuse even if the animals still display love and affection towards their masters -- and it's the same thing with children. Even if the girl was to say, "You may enter my bum," it wouldn't change the fact that she was being abused. It just goes against your idea that abuse can't occur if both parties are consenting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unownmew View Post
Is it wrong for a couple about that age [11 y.o.] to engage in sexual intercourse? And if not, why then would it be inappropriate for someone of that same age to do so with someone older then them under similar circumstances? (Again, I do NOT support "forcing your way with someone" in any aspect)
A debate I'm not up for right now. This crosses over from debating whether something is loli or not to debating whether full-blown paedophilia is defensible in our society or not. tl;dr I'll say I'm definitely against paedophilia (durr, as if that wasn't obvious already). I am okay with the idea of a 13 y.o. and an 11 y.o. having sex together, sure, and I even remember when I was 10 years old (in the 4th grade) that kids were already doing it, or at least claiming to, but I'm in NO WAY okay with a 15 y.o. and a 10 y.o. doing it and the idea of a 16 y.o. and an 8 y.o. doing it is about as repugnant as that of a 20-something y.o. and that same 8 y.o. doing it. I would say that the younger you are, the more important it is that you're the same age or very nearly the same age; and that the older you get, the less important. 30 y.o. man with 20 y.o. girl? A little creepy, maybe, but I wouldn't be flat-out against it. It doesn't strike me as criminal, just very unusual. (Even at age 26, I'm already finding a lot of college-age kids to be way way too immature for my tastes.) But a 20 y.o. male with a 10 y.o. girl? Dead wrong. Same age gap (10 years) but very different emotional and physical consequences.

Last edited by Talon87; 05-22-2011 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 05-22-2011, 11:05 PM   #2527
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Unownmew and I also touched upon this subject in our robot debate. I'll re-state my view that robots fall under the same category as children, therefore I apply the very same arguments against their abuse.

Dial-up's been on the fritz lately, which is part of why I haven't been posting much. Also there's not much to talk about since I still haven't made any more ML progress.

Ran out of time to finish AnoHana ep06 at the library today, so holding off on discussion there as well. Didn't even get to HanaIro. (I should really try to wake up early enough for my mom to drop me off during weekdays... Or learn how to drive. >>; )

In other news, I finally got around to updating my status list. I also went and made a MyAnimeList account. Finding it useful to keep a backlog of all the shows I intend to check out. (60 and growing!)

I may have missed/forgotten some series (especially in the manga department; it's been ages since I read most of them), but I think I've uploaded the bulk of it for now. So far we've got "Somewhat High" compatibility, Talon.
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Old 05-22-2011, 11:27 PM   #2528
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I can sort of see how you might place a robot like Chii there (even though I still disagree given the specifics of her programmed behavior -- this would take us back towards your Pygmalion argument, though ^^; ), but I don't see how you'd place a robot/computer program like Sora there. Or Andromeda/"Rommie" from the TV show Andromeda ...

... Chii, though, admittedly does have some hefty parallels early on in the story with small children (e.g. she's ignorant about the world to the point that she consents to sexually abusive situations, e.g. tagging along with the peep show guy); but I'd say that, partly due to her programming (so you can call this Pygmalion if you want, whatever, can't win this argument with you both ways ), she ends up behaving more like an amnestic teenager or young adult than she does a brand-new-brained baby or small child. A lot of her behavior may seem childlike but that's because a lot of her behavior, particularly early on, is that of childlike wonder and innocence, attributes we strongly associate with children because they tend to exhibit these traits more than adults do. But why wouldn't an amnestic teen/young adult do the same? Obviously you can't have a human go as amnestic as Chii does and then come all the way back to near-full functionality the way she does, but if you could have an adult human forget its name, forget its vocabulary, forget everything except (a) how to learn and (b) to know deep down inside that it's searching for somebody very special, you'd probably get someone slightly close to Chii. Sure, there'd probably be less "Chiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ^-^" moments, but I think there'd be a lot of the general hijinx and stuff seen in the show.

And I rambled. ^^; Well, I'll cut it off there.

Cool! Someone else has joined the MyAnimeList site and decided to reach out! Last time I posted about it, some people said they'd joined but nobody ended up updating their profile pages or anything as a result of it. Cool to see you did. I've sent you a friend request. I doubt it's accurate since I think it operates largely on how many titles which are the same both people have seen (and not so much the scores given, though those nominally matter too), but yeah, it does say we have the highest compatibility I've yet seen with anybody I know. (71.9%? My other friends are 59.6% medium and 48.5% medium-low! )

It would have been nice if the Status Updates thread had worked as planned but few people update their posts their regularly and I get the feeling I'm probably the only one who even checks it even once monthly (and that's not frequent enough at all in order for it to work right!). It would be nice if the MyAnimeList thing worked out for our community. It'd help us avoid cluttering this thread with a lot of status updates (since you could just see them in each member's Recent History bits) and we could just focus on discussions.

EDIT: About that last bit: obviously people will still want to discuss what they've just seen. So it's natural to still maybe list what you've seen and talk about it. I'm just saying that there'd be no point anymore in having posts which only say what you've seen, like ...
Quote:
Hey guys. Whats up. I watched:
- Muff Luff Episode 03
- AnoBaka Episode 06
- Gaijin Episode 07
- Neon Exodus Armageddon: You Are All Alone
And that's all there is to it. No commentary, no nothing. That could just as easily be done via MyAnimeList. And it might even be better since, when people went to your page to look for that info specifically, you wouldn't have to have the same worry as you might here that people just scan right past your list.

Last edited by Talon87; 05-22-2011 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 05-22-2011, 11:52 PM   #2529
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Sora I'll cede this argument on. I didn't really take much issue with her "childlike" status, per se. She has existed for a long time and apparently observed enough to get a true sense of human relationships, so she's more like an adolescent yearning to break free and discover. What bugged me about her story was the fact that...

Spoiler: show
Sara was able to easily rewrite Sora's system so that she'd value herself above others. This brings us back to the "programming" debate.


Since I tend to marathon series anyway, I eventually found keeping a regularly updated "Currently Watching" status rather pointless. ^^; It works now that I'm following two shows weekly for the first time, ha.

On a random note, now you finally know my other online alias. ^-~ So all you stalkers can probably find me on non-Pokémon sites. XP
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:06 AM   #2530
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Yeesh, it's only hentai. I didn't really expect/hope for an argument out of it.

Oh well, I have excellent news (for myself atleast!) Gilligan's Island chapter 8 has a 50% patch out. While I'm not sure whether I'll start on it or not, it shows that the translators are nearing completion of this excellent title. I think I'll also replay it when I find a full PS3 patch, since it turns the Tsukihime level sprites into something beautiful. Bern's troll face has never looked so awesome.

For status....finished Fire Emblem and Zelda, and in sort of anticipation for Elder Scrolls 5, I started replaying Obwivion, and have gotten addicted to it again.

Anime-wise, I'm only rewatching Ojamajo Doremi Sharp, and that's only while I eat (I can't eat and play PS3 at the same time.)
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Old 05-23-2011, 01:14 AM   #2531
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Yuki's MyAnimeList list, first thoughts:
Oh, you've broken my heart, Yuki: you dropped Genshiken after only one episode and you gave it a 3. Well, truth be told, imo the anime is terrible compared with the manga. I read the manga first (LOVED IT) and then migrated over to the show which ... I was really disappointed by. They did a few things right (OHNO'S AND SAKI'S VOICE ACTRESSES, OMG) but for the most part the really low budget and the painfully slow pacing of the anime really hurt the show for me. But the manga? Probably the best manga I've ever read. (Not that I've read too many. But still.)

Question: why do you have Pokemon listed as "Dropped" but you also have listed that you've seen all 276 of it? I'm assuming you meant to put "Completed" but somehow it got listed as "Dropped". No?

Hmm, so you didn't like Code Geass much either, huh? Not intrigued by smug shounen Lelouch? Nor sexy mysterious C.C.? Nor the Geass concept? Oh well. Everyone has their own interests. But I thought Geass led with a really strong opener.

Oh wow: I still haven't finished the manga yet (and have not been spoilered), but you listed School Rumble San Gakki (i.e. Episodes 25 and 26 of what would have been the third season) a 4 out of 10? Ouch! Wuh oh! I wonder what perils await me ...!?

Aww, you won't be winning Mcsweeney's heart either: Kanon, 9/10, Clannad After Story, 8/10, but Air? 5/10. ^^;

I was wondering if Kaiji was on your To See list!
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:59 AM   #2532
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I'm also curious about her opinion on Geass, but I could probably anticipate it - while Lelouch's character is well explored, the other interesting aspects of the story warp/distort to accomodate it, which wasn't what Geass set out to do at first.

I'd argue Geass was 60% Lelouch, 40% plot in R1. R2 was like 95% Lelouch and 5% plot. Characters ceased to matter unless they had some connection with Lelouch. That definitely eroded the suspension of disbelief toward the setting.

@BBB - don't bite the patch! I want to wait for a full one as well. I definitely want to play all of Umineko dressed in its PS3 glory, even if the original sprites are supposedly endearing.

@myself - still haven't downloaded Ano Hana. Demonbane's eating up all my time because I'm trying to play all three routes at once. I'm most interested in Al now, despite my earlier attraction to Ruri. It's ironic, I liked her at first for being mature/confident, then when she gets her vulnerability exposed and finds true maturity, I lose interest. To borrow one of those popular quantum mechanical analogies, I'm an observer, and there's an unobserved quantum cloud in front of me. I'm interested in what it can become, but not what it is once I've observed it and it's become something.

Ironically, though I haven't seen a lot of magical girl anime, I tend to gravitate toward the "magical girl" of harems and VNs. Either the lonely magical girl, or the resolute/mysterious one. Or rather, a girl with an unbalancing trait/talent, though I also seem to favour those with no special qualities at all. Some favourite heroines:

Sora (Ever17)
FES (Chaos;Head)
Kou (Rance)
Haru (G-Senjou)
Saber* (FSN)
Sumika-Meiya** (Muv-Luv)
Ayu (Kanon)
Yuki (Haruhi)
Chihaya ([email protected])
Madoka (Madoka)
Anaru (Ano Hana)
Arashi (NnA)
Nia (TTGL)
Midori (MnH)


*While I like Rin's character a LOT, I think Saber is pure heroine material, and was simply not handled in as satisfying a way as I felt possible for her character! The same could be said for Ilya.
**Try as I might, I cannot pick between them. At the end of Extra, I couldn't do it. Unlimited, Meiya. But Alternative? I'm as indecisive as Takeru himself and I feel bad about it.


...

Actually, I don't really see any strong traits in common between them all. I don't get it.

Ah, mentioning MnH brought back good memories, so re-read the last few chapters. I'm kind of surprised at Midori's level of obsession over Seiji. It's (at least on the surface) of the same grade as Sumika's. But while Sumika feels more like a more complex character, because we got to see the evolution of Midori's relationship with Seiji said relationship is definitely better done than in Extra, though I think Takeru-Meiya is comparable but still inferior (in Extra). Maybe even Unlimited...but not Alternative by a million miles. :p
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:15 AM   #2533
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So I'm looking for a new anime. Probably something Talon would hate.[/ohsnap] (In all seriousness, I'm glad you watched Reborn Talon, sorry you didn't like it more).

Zany characters and a large number of episodes are pluses, seriousness in places is appreciated. If the characters are compelling I can get behind pretty much any premise (see: Infant Hitmen), and lots of episodes are good because... it's hard finding shows that I really like, so I prefer them to take a while to get through.

http://myanimelist.net/profile/muyotwo- This would probably be more helpful if I remembered all of the animes I saw when I was the designated "Guy with an ebay account" for a big group of anime loving friends. They gave me cash, I ordered the anime, watched it and delivered it afterwards. Mostly nondescript things, but it would flesh things out a good bit.

Suggest away!
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:16 AM   #2534
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What you've said doesn't make any sense, though, for she who has dropped it after only one episode. It'd make sense if she had seen through Episode 07 or 15 or something and then dropped it, but the arguments you've raised require exposure to the series. Maybe she's had that via spoilers? I dunno. We'll let Yuki speak for herself.

Three Kingdoms 2010:
Since it's popular right now to be apologetic for not watching much anime , I'll confess that I too haven't watched any over the past couple of days. I discovered Three Kingdoms, the 2010 television adaptation of the famous Chinese novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms and have been in absolute heaven as a result. I'm through Episode 12 (of 95!). I'm planning to make a thread in Misc.Disc for it eventually, but for now I'm being lazy about it. Here's a scene from Episode 05 if you want to sample it. It's the famous battle at Hu Lao Pass between the three oath-brothers Liu Bei, Guan Yu, and Zhang Fei and the most powerful warrior in the realm, Lu Bu.
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:27 AM   #2535
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Suggest away!
I'm inclined to throw out other Jump titles, particularly Toriko which will likely kill off Bleach from the magazine given enough time, but it's still a recent anime since it started this past spring.

Long ago, I did suggest you try One Outs and I still feel it's a good fit. It's a baseball story but is kind of a fusion between Eyeshield and Akagi. The first few episodes won't do it justice, you have to wait until Tokichi gets into Nippon Professional Baseball for it to take off.

OO actually set the stage for me recently (2009-present) getting interested in Major League Baseball (other factors were my local team the San Francisco Giants having players near my age, and winning the World Series last year).

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What you've said doesn't make any sense, though, for she who has dropped it after only one episode. It'd make sense if she had seen through Episode 07 or 15 or something and then dropped it, but the arguments you've raised require exposure to the series. Maybe she's had that via spoilers? I dunno. We'll let Yuki speak for herself.
Oh.

Perhaps she felt that Geass shared more in common with the Flying Spaghetti Monster than it did with Death Note?
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:42 AM   #2536
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KateKyo Hitman Reborn:
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Originally Posted by Muyotwo View Post
So I'm looking for a new anime. Probably something Talon would hate.[/ohsnap] (In all seriousness, I'm glad you watched Reborn Talon, sorry you didn't like it more).
Yeah, I'm sorry too! It's a character-driven show and unfortunately for me I didn't much care for most of the characters. My favorites were definitely Gokudera and Lambo, but the list abruptly ends right there. And even after 29 episodes, I still hated everything about Reborn, from his design to his voice to his behavior to everything. The idea of seven mystical mafia babies with pacifiers the seven colors of the rainbow didn't help endear him to me as much as I think it was supposed to have. Oh well. Better luck next Shonen Jump series.

I might pick the show back up some day out of boredom, but you can go ahead and answer me this question now if you want:
Spoiler: show
Is Reborn actually Tsuna or some other Vongola mafia boss? That was the theory I was operating on from the beginning, but I shelved it to the back of my mind after five or six episodes. Then some time around Episode 16 or so I started seeing posts by this one guy on Crunchyroll. They showed up right next to the video screen b/c he'd written them within days of my viewing the episode and so they were the highest up on the comments section which placed them right smack dab to the right of the video. And this guy happened to have for his avatar a picture of what looked like Tsuna but wearing Reborn's clothing (hat, suit, color trim)! I didn't know whether it was just fanart, whether it was just the outfit Tsuna chose to wear when he got older because he admired Reborn, or whether it was actually hinting at the fact that Reborn, true to his name, is some kinda perverse reincarnation of Tsuna.

You can also go ahead and answer these questions since they're probably the only things which will nag at me about the series, laughably:
Spoiler: show
Who does everyone wind up with?
(1) Haru vs. Kyouko. It seems like Haru is just the comic relief and Kyouko's Tsuna's dream girl, but I wonder who he gets. Both? Neither? And regardless, what happens to poor Haru?

(2) Adult Lambo. Who does he like, if anybody? Is it Iipin? Who does he wind up with? Is it that friend of Kyouko's? Is it somebody else? Is it nobody?

(3) Who is Romeo, Bianchi's ex-fiancé? Is he actually Lambo but from farther ahead in the future, thereby explaining why 15-year old Lambo has no memory of her? Or is it just a funny coincidence that Adult Lambo looks like her ex?

(4) Who does Adult Iipin ultimately fall for / wind up with? Little Iipin likes Hibiki (boo!), but I think she and Lambo make a cute pairing and so I'm curious if when she grows up she has a thing for Adult Lambo or not.

Yeah. Pretty laughable that none of those questions were to do with Tsuna. ^^; I just ... didn't like him. Couldn't get into the story. Sorry. I tried.

Recommendations for Muyo:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muyotwo View Post
Zany characters and a large number of episodes are pluses, seriousness in places is appreciated. If the characters are compelling I can get behind pretty much any premise (see: Infant Hitmen), and lots of episodes are good because... it's hard finding shows that I really like, so I prefer them to take a while to get through.
Have you checked out Gintama? Our senses of humor may differ wildly given my lack of enthusiasm for Reborn, but I think it's worth your investigating if you haven't done so already. A, it's another Shonen Jump comedy. B, it's definitely pretty zany at times. C, it's ridiculously character-rich and character-driven. (By the time you get to the new series, it seems like there are at least 20-odd regular supporting characters who make frequent appearances.) And D, it's got 208 episodes and is still running. Seemingly it fits many of your requirements ... but we'll just have to see how you like it.

If it helps, I started with Episode 202 and have recommended to all my friends they do the same since the original series gets off to a pretty slow start. I'm currently through Episode 29 of Gintama and I still haven't seen more than an inkling about the show's shonen-action plot. I'm sure it'll show up eventually, but for now it's just adventure-of-the-week episodes and character introductions. But I have enjoyed it. As for Gintama' (which is the name of the current season/series), I'm through all the episodes that have aired (so ... Eps 202 thru 208 ), and it's rated a 9 out of 10 by me on MyAnimeList. Lowest it's ever fallen has been an 8. I think it's hysterical. But I showed it to a friend who is orgasming over Nichijou this season (which I find dreadfully boring and stupidly silly) and he felt much the same way about Gintama. Soo ... yeah. "Different strokes for different folks," I guess. ^^;

Last edited by Talon87; 05-23-2011 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 05-23-2011, 01:32 PM   #2537
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For status....finished Fire Emblem and Zelda, and in sort of anticipation for Elder Scrolls 5, I started replaying Obwivion, and have gotten addicted to it again.
Which Fire Emblem? The one for GBA?

Hey DCD, if you want to learn about baseball, you should join my fantasy league next season. Fantasy baseball is the best way to gain knowledge about the statistics and all of the players, unless you only care about the Giants. I kinda liked the Giants back when they were led by the two biggest assholes in sports (Barry Bonds and Jeff Kent), and they were so awesome because of it. But then they had that ridiculous collapse against the Angels in the World Series, Kent left, and Bonds was finally defeated by injury, old age, and the media.
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:07 PM   #2538
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Yeah, Fire Emblem 7 basically. Probably due to the fact that it's my first, it has always been my favorite. I need to replay 6, since I barely remember anything about it other than the fact that it was way harder than 7. Also, Lilina was great.
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:11 PM   #2539
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I've got some more thoughts on Buraiden Gai.

There's that old cliche about how you should "write what you know". Fukumoto obviously has a strong interest in gambling, particularly mahjong, therefore he was able to create such strong drama in Akagi and Kaiji, with sharp insights on the psychology, addiction, and fear involved in gambling. I can't choose which story I like best out of Akagi, Kaiji, and Kurosawa, but the reason why Kurosawa is PERHAPS the strongest one of them all, is because I feel like it's a very personal story for Fukumoto. He was in his mid 40s when he made it, just like Kurosawa, and was himself a former blue collar worker before he made it as a mangaka. I don't think he's married, so maybe this combination of things caused him a mid life crisis and inspired the story. He isn't a big ugly lug like Kurosawa, but maybe shyness and lack of social skills never allowed him to have the wife and family he longed for. This is likely, since pariah characters who don't fit in with society are a common theme in his works. Unfortunately, Kurosawa is the person who most WANTS to fit in, but is the least equipped to do so.

Maybe this is why Gai is the weakest of what I've seen so far. It falls outside of Fukumoto's area of expertise. As far as I know, he is not a fighting expert, nor has he ever been imprisoned. One of the parts I found most interesting though, is when the instructors at the prison delve into Gai's past, and try to figure out why he committed murder. They discover that he lived in an orphanage for most of his life, but left, and had to live by himself in a run down house with no electricity or running water. Their theory is that it was here where he developed a contempt for society, and lashed out. Gai tells them that they're dead wrong. It was this period of time where he was the happiest! Because he was free, and not depending on anyone. Independence is the biggest theme of the manga (the very first page is a black page with the words "STAND ALONE" on it, as Gai escapes from the cops).

Gai looking quite content reading books in the dark, on the floor of his dirty, ghetto ass house:
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:23 PM   #2540
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HE'S READING THREE KINGDOMS! XD That's awesome!

Very interesting insight/thoughts, Mcsweeney. You're probably quite right about Kurosawa, though without some interviews for us to read in English with the man himself, it'll be hard for us to know where the line should be drawn between fascinations Kurosawa has which transpired into his stories vs. full-blown life experiences he's personally had which transpired into them.
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:56 PM   #2541
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Genshiken:

I think we had this conversation before, but I personally gad a bad gut feeling about the first episode of the animé. It was slow, dull, and far less relatable than I expected/hoped. Honestly I don't remember much of what happened - if anything - aside from the misleading (yet catchy) theme song. I remember telling my brother afterward that I had zero intention of continuing the series. It left that sour of an aftertaste.

For you, I'm willing to give it another shot. Thanks for also reminding me to put the manga on my "to-read" list. I will probably start there to gauge if my reaction is any better compared to the animé.

It might just turn out to be a similar experience as watching Excel Saga. My brother once hailed it as his favorite series, though I was indifferent when he first introduced me to it. After gaining more animé exposure over the years, I returned to the show and found it hilarious. Now that you guys have initiated me into the world of hentai, visual novels, and hardcore otakuism, I may be better able to appreciate Genshiken's humor. *thumbs up*

Pokémon:

I have seen most of the first season (dubbed), but I listed the title as "Dropped" just to indicate I'm done with the series as a whole. I left off watching the dub towards the end of Hoenn. With shows I watched in English as they aired, I don't know exactly how many episodes I saw so I just rounded up to "Completed" status.

It would be nice if MyAnimeList had an option that allowed you to display whether you watched a series dubbed, subbed, or raw (like ANN). Hence I made more specific notes in my UPN post.

And no, I'm not really interested in (re-)watching Pokémon in Japanese.

Edit- I switched Pokémon and Pokémon Advance around. Now the former is "Completed" and the latter "Dropped". Does that make more logical sense now?

Code Geass:

I mentioned before I'm not too keen on mecha series. The first episode was all right, but frankly rather uninteresting until the end. I was not a fan of Lelouch's character from the start, and I don't know enough about C.C.'s character to be a judge. The Geass concept is intriguing, but like Dopple mentioned the plot resembled Death Note - which I was also watching at the time - too closely to warrant immediate excitement.

Also, bear in mind most of these "dropped at one episode" listings were just first episode samples my brother provided me while I was on dial-up. I couldn't have easily continued them even if I wanted to. Hence why they're listed as "on-hold", not "dropped" entirely. I just haven't gotten a chance to pick them up again. The tentative score is simply based on what I've seen so far and how well the preview captivated my attention, so don't take these initial impressions to heart. (That goes for Genshiken and Chobits too.)

School Rumble San Gakki:

I gave it a low score in part because it was just so rushed- or rather, abrupt. Perhaps the manga executes it better, with proper buildup and atmosphere. As it is, it's just an incongruous mood-killer. Do let me know your thoughts once you finish the manga, and your comparison judgment on the OVA once you see it.

Kaiji:

Ha, I've been watching you boys squealing and wetting falling all over yourselves in the Kaiji S2 thread. I am curious to see what all the fuss is about. XP ^~

Katekyo Hitman Reborn:

Watched the first three episodes before leaving college. Like Talon, I'm finding it rather bland and annoying so far. Sorry, Muyo. I'll give it a chance up to... 26, was it? But I can't make any promises on whether I'll stick with the series afterwards. =/

Recommendations for Muyo:

The two main long shounen series I've seen are Rurouni Kenshin and Hunter x Hunter. Kenshin's good if you like samurai stories, of course. Often silly outside of battle but gets serious during the main arcs. (I prefer the silly moments myself.) A friend of mine loves this series and made me read the entire manga, though I can't say I share in her devotion.

Hunter x Hunter is actually my preferred of the two, and seems rather underappreciated, IMO. The characters are all fun and likable. Gon is probably my favorite shounen lead since he's genuinely an innocent kid who succeeds by doing things naturally at his own pace. He's not hotheaded or an idealist, just a laidback cool dude. (Yoh from Shaman King is my second favorite for similar reasons.)

For the most part, the show has a good mix of humor, fighting, and the occasional drama. However, be forewarned that the last arc of the TV series focuses on the character with the most emotional baggage and gets really angsty. Once his issues are resolved in the first OVA, the story does return to a lighthearted tone in the final Greed Island arc. Unfortunately, most of the main characters are again pushed aside (two of them entirely offscreen), and the "modern" art and style shift clashes with the retro feel of the early episodes. The ending is disappointingly underwhelming. A shame, really. I would've been happy to follow this series had it gone for longer while featuring the main cast. They were a lovable lot, with the right balance of silliness and tragic/emotional pasts.

For pure, unadulterated zaniness, there's Excel Saga. My brother loved this series for its off-the-wall hyperactive humor. Like I mentioned before I wasn't that impressed with it at first, but warmed up after I watched a lot more animé. Basically, it's one of those shows where the more tropes you're familiar with, the more you'll probably appreciate the parodies. Unlike other referential shows such as Lucky Star, it covers a much wider variety of genres, isn't strictly loli-moe-otaku-pandering, and is generally more manic and spontaneous.

Fire Emblem & Zelda

Been curious about Fire Emblem since it's the other handheld fantasy title I've heard about besides Golden Sun. What's it like? Perhaps I'll look into playing this summer as well, especially if it's for GBA. (Confirmed to be home for the summer, btw. Go offline entertainment!)

And is the Zelda you're referring to Minish Cap?

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Old 05-23-2011, 08:04 PM   #2542
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Pokemon: yeah, that makes more sense. When they say "Pokemon", what they're referring to is the Japanese idea of what constituted the anime called "Pokemon" -- 276 episodes that us English-speaking fans have referred to since the beginning as Seasons 1 through 5 (Season 1 = Kanto, Season 2 = Orange Islands, Seasons 3-5 = Johto). Obviously we're not using the term "season" correctly here, but that's not really the point. Point is, the Japanese themselves believed that Ash's adventure between Johto and Hoenn was so drastically different in terms of animation budget (true) and storytelling (really? ) that they decided to give it a whole new name: Pokemon Advance. So on MyAnimeList, since they go by Japanese production names, that's why Pokemon doesn't mean "the entire Pokemon anime" but rather it only means Kanto, Orange Islands, and Johto.

Genshiken: well, we'll see. A lot of the love for Genshiken comes from fans who see familiar friends and things in that series. It's definitely written for a male readership imo so who knows what you'll think. No hard feelings if you drop it. *jiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii* ¬.¬

Geass: even though I've referenced the show as a mecha at times -- usually when trying to prove to myself or to others "I have too seen mecha anime!" -- I really wouldn't market it that way to a newcomer. Geass is imo primarily about the geass itself in Season 1 and it's secondarily in Season 1 and primarily in Season 2 about the political and psychological warfare Lelouch wages with the leaders of various nations. If you already knew you didn't like it, shrug, maybe it's not worth your time to go back to any time soon. But I thought the show was good in the beginning, tripped over its own two feet quite a number of times over the course of both seasons, but then not only firmly found its ground -- it surprised us by revealing that its feet had never left the ground in the first place and it had been in control the whole time. (Or at least that's my opinion. Other fans believe Sunrise epically caught what looked like a dropped ball doomed to hit the floor. So take your pick: ball never dropped or epic save was pulled off.)

Kaiji: I'd be really interested to see what you think of this series. It's such a man's show, but I don't think the story is or has to be inaccessible to the female gender. You'd be the first girl I know to watch it, though, so I'd really be interested to hear what you think. Just don't let the character designs put you off! Yes, they're ridiculous. We all got inoculated to them by watching Akagi back in '06 or '07, so by the time Kaiji came out in Fall 2007 we were ready. But trust me: they'll grow on you (even if only just a little) and you're not watching this one for the animation anyway. It's all about the tension. If you want to try and replicate our experience in watching this show, just try to space the viewings to one episode a week. (I wager it can't be done. XD Only reason we did was 'cause we had to 'cause it hadn't been aired yet. At one point in Season 1 I even got desperate and watched it raw, right, guys? That's how cliffhangery the show can be.)
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Old 05-23-2011, 09:03 PM   #2543
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Geass v. DN - I actually had this discussion with Malcom a couple nights ago. Geass R1 is strongly character driven while Geass R2 is completely character driven. DN is plot driven, and by contrast has weak characters. The only good character development wise in all of DN is L, and Lelouch is far more dynamic than L is.

Geass' mechs really are tacked on, but it gets worse/comic in R2 when a ridiculous arms race occurs. You'll find MLU is a lot more tolerable in how it approaches mechs.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:59 PM   #2544
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Pokémon: Yeah, thank you for pointing that out. I'm not sure why I even organized my list like that in the first place. This way makes much more sense.

Genshiken: Familiar friends = Talon? XP

I've never really known any hardcore otaku IRL, or even online until I set foot in here. I'm probably the biggest otaku in my group, and that's not saying much. Most of my friends have moved on from animé - I've only been able to keep my psycho friend's interest in TMoHS alive by feeding her all these angst and conspiracy theories. Right now I'm trying to convince her to watch AnoHana (so we can both make fun of Yukiatsu- I mean, relate to the story about friendship), but I doubt she will.

Even back when we were all into animé I was mostly surrounded by squealing fangirls, ya know? Most of the guys joined us later, and were more into video games than animé. A few had their favorite series (one was a big fan of Evangelion), but no underground obsessions or collections to my knowledge.

In all, my friends were mostly just familiar with mainstream titles: Naruto, Bleach, etc. I was the one who managed to successfully convert two of them to Haruhiism, and struggled but failed to wrangle in the Haruhi-esque person whom I was sure would appreciate the story most. Nor would several of them have been introduced to Ouran if it weren't for me. Heck, most of them knew about Yu Yu Hakusho but no one ever mentioned Hunter x Hunter. When a group of freshmen arrived during our senior year, they twittered about nothing but Axis Powers Hetalia.

I'm ranting off-topic so I'll stop, but basically it's hard for me to relate to a show like Genshiken when I'm still inexperienced with otaku culture, and I'm not exactly sure how far I want to stick my head into it at this point. My idealistic dreams of becoming a mangaka or animator are behind me, and everyone else I know has already moved on entirely. If there was no one to discuss and share niche media with before, there certainly isn't now. As a girl, it's even harder to admit to watching/reading hentai or playing eroges, let alone finding someone else who might share an interest, male or female.

Originally when I arrived at college and had unlimited access to streams for the first time, I was only planning to finish off the shows I had left off/been dying to watch and then put away the weeaboo cosplay for good. Then I went and made that post in the Haruhi thread (the only series I would never lose love for), and the rest, as you know, is history.

That's not to say I regret meeting the UPN Brigade in the slightest. You guys are great and I really appreciate some of the awesome recommendations you've given me, as well as the chance to have sophisticated discussions for the first time about them. Tales like Ever17, Kanon, and AnoHana have reminded me how enjoyable and moving storytelling can be, regardless of form or origin. AnoHana in particular has shown me how I could've easily missed out on something amazing had I thrown in the towel. I guess I'm just still somewhat ashamed to embrace my otaku side, rather than seeing it as a chance to explore and discover new precious gems.

Apologies again for the personal rant. Just felt the need to get that off my chest. To make a topic out of it... Have any of you ever felt you would lose interest in animé? What keeps you going? Do you keep your fandom on the down-low IRL, or wear the otaku badge with pride?

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Old 05-23-2011, 11:45 PM   #2545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YUKI.N View Post
As a girl, it's even harder to admit to watching/reading hentai or playing eroges
Helloooooooooooooooooooo, Genshiken Season 2! (Or manga volumes 5 thru 9!) Meet Ogiue.

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Originally Posted by YUKI.N View Post
Have any of you ever felt you would lose interest in animé? What keeps you going? Do you keep your fandom on the down-low IRL, or wear the otaku badge with pride?
I've never felt it, though I have briefly wondered about it when it has come up in my life because other people I know have talked about "growing out of" watching anime. I know one guy irl who actually quit watching anime for a good 2-3 years not because he was trying to kick the habit but because he felt like he'd seen all there was to see. Then, for whatever reason, he started watching shows again last year. I haven't asked him about it since I don't want to pop the bubble. ^^; But me? I don't see anime as something to be grown out of nor do I see it as intrinsically special. Anime is a way for me to enjoy some great stories, pure and simple. As you guys know, I also discover stories by ...
- watching live-action Japanese television
- watching live-action Japanese cinema
- watching live-action Chinese television (starting just this week ^^; )
- watching live-action American television
- watching live-action American cinema
So it's not like it has to be animated. Then there's the fact that it doesn't even have to be cinematic or televised. 'Cause I also discover stories by ...
- reading books
- reading comics
- talking to people
- playing visual novels
- playing video games

So to me, anime is no more something to grow out of than any of these are. (And I realize a lot of people do think some of these are to be grown out of, like video games. To those Roger Eberts in the audience, I simply say "SHENMUE" or "SHADOW OF THE COLOSSUS". ) But at the same time, anime is no more special than any of these are. Anime is special in some ways, but so too are each of these. For instance, what made Shadow of the Colossus so magical, in part, was the fact that you were in control. It wouldn't have had as much of an impact had it been an anime. Anime is an ideal medium for certain kinds of stories. These often include stories featuring young main characters (since as we all know child actors suck ) or stories which involve crazy magical or fantastical settings and creatures that (until the last decade, anyway) would have been far uglier and yet far more ridiculously expensive to produce the CGI way than the animated way, a double-lose scenario. To put it simply, a series like Kaiji would theoretically make for a fantastic live-action television series whereas a show like Madoka was meant to be an anime. (Two words: Kyuubei, witches.)

Digression. On to some of your other questions ...

What keeps me going? Good stories keep being told. (And when they aren't? Then I look elsewhere. 2010 was an awful year for anime for me, and it's no coincidence it saw me pick up and play FSN two-thirds of the way to completion and Remember11 ~all the way to completion [not counting you and your need to get 100% of all text ].)

Do I keep my fandom on the down-low irl? I didn't used to. During college, I made a point of wearing my X/1999 t-shirt with Kamui on the front once every two weeks or so. It was the only anime shirt I had, but I liked it a lot and saw no problem with wearing it. I retired Kamui in 2007 when I entered medical school and since then I've been more hesitant in telling people I watch anime. Often they guess, but I generally try not to bring it up. If I overhear people talking about anime, in the past I would butt in in the hopes of making friends. Now I just ignore them, not wanting to make an ass of myself nor necessarily wanting to expose that I too know the secret language in which they are speaking. (Yes, I know of this "Alucard" of whom you speak. ) But in the privacy of my own home? I don't hide anything. You've seen photos of my apartment before, I think, but if not ...
living room wall above couch (PhotoBucket page) (full size)
bedroom wall next to door, to left of head of bed when standing from foot of bed (PhotoBucket page) (full size)
Much to the chagrin of my father. And it's probably not doing my any favors in the romance department. But oh well. "To thine own self, be true!"

P.S. That Mikan/Jasmine + Steelix painting is roughly 3' x 2'. I have the plastic ruler up there on the bottom of the frame to lend a sense of scale. It's huge. And I love it.

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Old 05-23-2011, 11:46 PM   #2546
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Fire Emblem & Zelda

Been curious about Fire Emblem since it's the other handheld fantasy title I've heard about besides Golden Sun. What's it like? Perhaps I'll look into playing this summer as well, especially if it's for GBA. (Confirmed to be home for the summer, btw. Go offline entertainment!)

And is the Zelda you're referring to Minish Cap?
It's kinda like taking FF Tactics and making is simpler and more difficult. For the most part, it's really addicting and fun.

Also, nah, it was A Link to the Past. I could've played it on the SNES, but I like the GBA emulator much better.
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Old 05-24-2011, 12:12 AM   #2547
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I don't think I'll lose interest, though the fear has crossed my mind. Certainly, of the folks I grew up with, a bunch of them have left anime but they weren't in that deeply to begin with. My friend in Pharmacy school was like that, he flat out told me "yeah, I'm not watching anime anymore because I'm going to a place where that kind of interest isn't acceptable". I've never yielded to that kind of mentality.

The primary reason I won't lose interest is I have no-where else to go. I've evolved into a certain mindset that would only be receptive to foreign ideas. Comic books never interested me, and I've never owned a video game console. I was spoiled by LucasArts as a child and modern games don't live up to the quality of those projects. Likewise, modern cartoons in the post-Turner renaissance (the 1990's and early 2000's) are demographic oriented and universally awful. I mean, what do I watch when I turn into TV? Documentaries. Almost exclusively documentaries. My favourite is Modern Marvels.

I feel I've been isolated by my own education, taste and intelligence, and it's a distinction that most advertisers would classify as "niche" - the kind of person they can't sell a product to.

I had a discussion two nights ago with RoboBlue and Jonas, admins on Arlong Park, about advertising and why I find it almost humorous in how it tries and fails to pander to me, namely the ads on CrunchyRoll. It went something like-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlong Park
"Well, obviously you're going to be influenced by whatever ads you see, and subconsciously make decisiosns that lead you to buy the product".

"No, I don't buy stuff like that."

"What do you mean?"

"I don't listen to music, and most of my friends use AIM, so I don't have any need for an Ipod or anything like that."

"I don't own consoles, so I don't spend my money on expensive games. When I was younger, I got all of my entertainment from forums or Newgrounds.com".

"Well, if you see an ad for a local car dealership, like John's Car Emporium, you'll be more likely to get a car there..."

"I don't drive"

"What?"

"I don't have to. I take the public transit when I have to work, and run the distance from where the bus leaves me to the hospital".

"What do you spend your money on?"

"Food".

"Well, then you'd buy national brands from what you see..."

"Not really, I buy from the farmer's markets for local vegetables or buy convenience products from Costco, because they're cheaper. I've often lauded Kirkland Signature Soymilk, right?"

"Yeah."

"That's a Costco brand. I'll never buy Silk".

"Well, most of the world isn't like your country town. I live in New York. It's nothing like that."
It was then that I realized that despite being middle class, I'm possibly one of the most privileged people I know. It's why I could relate to Takeru so much. Once upon a time, Talon once talked about buying Prego tomato sauce at a Kroger's (a chain then unfamiliar to me). I kept wondering why he'd buy what I consider an awful tomato sauce, but it didn't occur to me until a year later that, living in the tomato capital of the planet, I am extremely spoiled by the local bounty and others aren't as fortunate. Who can say they live a block down from a Team Fortress 2 style train yard, adjacent to a rice mill? With turkeys inhabiting a forest about 2 miles away, and chickens running across my yard? With parents as accomodating, supportive and forgiving as mine? I'm extremely blessed, and I want to transform these unique expriences into something rare and powerful.

Likewise for anime, I've found diamonds in the rough, beneath the shounen surface most anime fans never touch. I can't share Yolo tomato sauce with the world, but I can share my passion for anime with my experience. If I can connect to a few kindred spirits, and establish a communication, it's more than enough.

Getting Malcom to play Muv-Luv, for example, was enormously fun for me. I don't think I could ever get bored with that kind of communication, though there is a method to properly coerce the maximum interest out of such a discourse.
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Old 05-24-2011, 12:25 AM   #2548
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Helloooooooooooooooooooo, Genshiken Season 2! (Or manga volumes 5 thru 9!) Meet Ogiue.
I did notice her description as I was reading the Wiki entry, and that basically sparked this whole introspection. My curiosity about her has certainly bumped up my interest in the series.

Quote:
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It's kinda like taking FF Tactics and making is simpler and more difficult. For the most part, it's really addicting and fun.

Also, nah, it was A Link to the Past. I could've played it on the SNES, but I like the GBA emulator much better.
Cool. I've played FF Tactics Advance and loved it. What do you mean by "simpler and more difficult" though? ^^;

Ah. I played ALttP a few years ago after OoT and MM, but didn't really understand the hype.

To answer my own questions, I think I've made it clear I had my doubts about whether I would retain interest in animé. What keeps me going now is, as Talon stated, good stories are still being told, as proven by AnoHana.

I've never been the type to collect merchandise, so I don't have much to display my fandom. In high school I used to wear pins of TMoHS, Ouran, and Full Moon on my backpack which I got during my first trip to Animé Boston (plus a Piplup keychain from Chinatown). They were all lost one by one though (the latter broken). I still carry a Haruhiism keychain which I received as a present, though it's not very conspicuous.

Early in the year one girl did recognize my cell phone's Full Moon background, and she mentioned reading Fruits Basket at one point. She too had "grown out of it" though.

I have encountered one surprisingly still passionate fan of animé and video games. She recognized my Triforce pendant that I wear daily, and one topic led to another. Astonishingly enough, she had even heard of VNs. Unfortunately, living in separate dorm halls made interaction somewhat difficult.

Being in Pharmacy school myself, I do feel a pressure to hide these sorts of interests. In general, I don't openly broadcast my geekiness in public. But I still keep a few leftover mementos from high school on my person in case a chance meeting such as the above may occur.
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Old 05-24-2011, 01:06 AM   #2549
Muyotwo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
I'm inclined to throw out other Jump titles, particularly Toriko which will likely kill off Bleach from the magazine given enough time, but it's still a recent anime since it started this past spring.

Long ago, I did suggest you try One Outs and I still feel it's a good fit. It's a baseball story but is kind of a fusion between Eyeshield and Akagi. The first few episodes won't do it justice, you have to wait until Tokichi gets into Nippon Professional Baseball for it to take off.
I'll look into these, thanks DCD.

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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
KateKyo Hitman Reborn:

Spoiler: show
Is Reborn actually Tsuna or some other Vongola mafia boss? That was the theory I was operating on from the beginning, but I shelved it to the back of my mind after five or six episodes. Then some time around Episode 16 or so I started seeing posts by this one guy on Crunchyroll. They showed up right next to the video screen b/c he'd written them within days of my viewing the episode and so they were the highest up on the comments section which placed them right smack dab to the right of the video. And this guy happened to have for his avatar a picture of what looked like Tsuna but wearing Reborn's clothing (hat, suit, color trim)! I didn't know whether it was just fanart, whether it was just the outfit Tsuna chose to wear when he got older because he admired Reborn, or whether it was actually hinting at the fact that Reborn, true to his name, is some kinda perverse reincarnation of Tsuna.
Spoiler: show
No, Reborn is not Tsuna, nor is he any of the previous Vongola bosses. As for just what he is, that's a pretty huge spoiler that I don't really want to reveal all of in case you do decide to pick things up again. But I'll let Reborn tell you when he became so strong...
Intrigue!


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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Spoiler: show
Who does everyone wind up with?
(1) Haru vs. Kyouko. It seems like Haru is just the comic relief and Kyouko's Tsuna's dream girl, but I wonder who he gets. Both? Neither? And regardless, what happens to poor Haru?

(2) Adult Lambo. Who does he like, if anybody? Is it Iipin? Who does he wind up with? Is it that friend of Kyouko's? Is it somebody else? Is it nobody?

(3) Who is Romeo, Bianchi's ex-fiancé? Is he actually Lambo but from farther ahead in the future, thereby explaining why 15-year old Lambo has no memory of her? Or is it just a funny coincidence that Adult Lambo looks like her ex?

(4) Who does Adult Iipin ultimately fall for / wind up with? Little Iipin likes Hibiki (boo!), but I think she and Lambo make a cute pairing and so I'm curious if when she grows up she has a thing for Adult Lambo or not.
Spoiler: show
Sorry to say that there aren't good answers to the first two questions. The first because the KHR manga is ongoing- the anime is simply pausing to allow the manga space to get back ahead, rather than subjecting its fanbase to Naruto-style endless filler. I appreciate the thought, but this is one series where I actually really enjoy the filler. So no resolution for Kyoko/Haru yet.
(2) As for who adult Lambo likes, there is more development of adult Lambo in the next arc (including Lambo's most ultra badass moment too date), but the ten year bazooka is a harsh mistress- if Lambo makes a different decision at any point in his life, the Lambo he becomes in ten years will change significantly.
(3) Romeo is an actual different person who looks like Lambo. It turns out he died of food poisoning. Weird, huh?
(4) No resolution for I-Pin yet, manga ongoing etc. I think that the Mr. Kawahira she's constantly delivering ramen to is a strong contender though ;o

I'll look into Gintama, would I get a good feeling for it if I read the manga? I've seen/read several shonen series where it seems to take a while to get to the beat-'em-up stage: Yu Yu Hakusho and Reborn for example, so slow developing doesn't bother me as long as the characters are good. If there's a key point where the anime starts kicking in, feel free to tell me and I'll watch at least up to there. Turnabout being fair play and all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YUKI.N View Post
[COLOR="LightBlue"][SIZE="1"]Katekyo Hitman Reborn:

Watched the first three episodes before leaving college. Like Talon, I'm finding it rather bland and annoying so far. Sorry, Muyo. I'll give it a chance up to... 26, was it? But I can't make any promises on whether I'll stick with the series afterwards. =/
There seems to be very little in middle ground when I've gotten people to watch this show- two of my buddies have loved it, and you and Talon have been "Eh"-y. I'll still hold out hope for you coming around in the future, but thanks for trying it all the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YUKI.N View Post

Recommendations for Muyo:

The two main long shounen series I've seen are Rurouni Kenshin and Hunter x Hunter. Kenshin's good if you like samurai stories, of course. Often silly outside of battle but gets serious during the main arcs. (I prefer the silly moments myself.) A friend of mine loves this series and made me read the entire manga, though I can't say I share in her devotion.

Hunter x Hunter is actually my preferred of the two, and seems rather underappreciated, IMO.

Also Excel saga bit

This is where MyAnimeList not being fully up to date comes back to bite me, as I've actually read the full RuroKen manga and seen the Excel Saga anime. Oops. I really like the manga for Kenshin, but I've heard bad things about the anime, what did you think about the comparison between the two? My RL buddy is a huge HunterxHunter fan as well, so I've thought about giving that a try a few times, though the fact that it's on an indefinite hold worries me somewhat. Since you and he both recommend it though I suppose I'll have to give it a go.

Thanks for your suggestions, folks. Keep 'em coming if you have more.
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Old 05-24-2011, 01:30 AM   #2550
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I dunno: I've never read the manga and only just discovered Gintama myself this spring. From what I've seen of the manga in my video game ShonenJump Ultimate Stars on the Nintendo DS, I can say that the anime did a good job of capturing word-for-word and exact-look-of-the-face for exact-look-of-the-face some of the scenes in the manga. I can't say how often it does this though since all I have to work with are like 30 or so random cels. ^^;

I can say that you'll get an extra layer of pleasure out of the series -- one that's by no means necessary, just welcome and extra -- if you know famous figures from the time period Gintama is parodying. Many of the characters in the show have partial personality overlap with their historic counterparts but with key details altered. Most noticeably, all of their given names have been changed, so that ...You get the idea. This doesn't apply to every character (including the main three, lol) but it applies to a good many of the characters seen in the show. And it's for that reason, then, that recognition of who they're supposed to be parodies of and in what manner they're parodies of these historical figures would probably lend you some added smiles here or there.

Don't be scared away from checking out the show though if you don't know any of these names: because I didn't know half of them (including all four of the ones I just listed for you!) before starting this show either. (I knew the Shinsengumi, of course. But I didn't know the names of anybody in it. ) I'm just saying that if you do know them then you will be in more an additional treat while watching.

As for where you should watch to before dropping Gintama ... uh, I'd say ...
If you should start with Episode 001 ...
(1) Watch until you meet the bad guy with the eye patch. He debuts in the episode with the robot inventor. I think it's like Episode 24 or 22 or something. He's the first indication that the story might actually get serious. If you're willing to stick around, press on. If not ...
(2) Go ahead and skip to episode 202 (trust me) and watch it.

If you should start with Episode 202 ...
(1) Watch through Episode 203. If you love what you're seeing, feel free to either keep pressing forward or to go back in time to Episode 001. (I did both.) If you don't like what you're seeing ...
(2) Go back to Episode 001. The show is still pretty silly-zany here but decidedly less so than it was in 202 or 203. So give it a try here and see if you can handle this better. If not? Either press on to Episode 24ish (see above) or feel free to drop at your convenience.

Last edited by Talon87; 05-24-2011 at 01:35 AM.
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