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Old 02-07-2015, 04:44 PM   #26
Talon87
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Episode 06:

Spoiler: show
I get my wish and the love story between Yukino, Hachiman, and Yui begins to move forward. Yui informally quits the Volunteer Club following Hachiman's words of sabotage at the end of the previous episode, Yukino hopes to re-recruit Yui and half-related half-unrelated wants to throw Yui a surprise birthday party, and Yukino asks Hachiman to help her shop for Yui's gifts -- something which looks and feels like a date to everyone, even a tsuntsun Yukino and an initially-clueless Hachiman.

Taken as a straight entry into the genre, I feel like OreGairu is a 5 out of 10 or at best a 6 out of 10. Taken as a satire piece, I can see why Doppel enjoys it. I disagree that it's satirical, that it's intentional commentary on the OreImo genre, but I can see the things that Hachiman says or does which enable those who see OreGairu this way to enjoy it much more than I have. The Episode 05 one that stands out in particular is when the trio are in the clubroom, Yui is mistaking Yukino's words and believes that Hachiman and Yukino are dating, Yukino is mistaking Yui's replies and believes that Yui is responding to Yukino's party talk, the omniscient audience understands the miscommunication ... and/but then there's Hachiman, who (interpreted literally) is a do-nothing putz but who (interpreted the Doppel way) is in on the joke with the audience, falls just short of breaking the fourth wall with his commentary, and comments that the girls appear to have misunderstood one another. Taken for its surface value it's silly, but taken for its Doppel value™ it's a wry critique of the genre's absurd but beloved cliches.

Episode 06 hints at what's been obvious from the beginning (given the patterns of the genre) -- a Hachiman x Yukino ending. Which is frustrating since I still much prefer Yui to Yukino.

Yukino's sister, while attractive, is explained to be putting on a facade for the public. Sad. :\

Yui's dog Sable escapes from his leash too easily. >_> Good present choice, Hachiman!
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Old 02-08-2015, 11:24 PM   #27
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RELEVANT TO THIS DISCUSSION.

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Old 07-31-2015, 12:41 AM   #28
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Surprise! Long time no see! After a string of other distractions, projects, and tasks to attend to, I've circled back around to OreGairu with the intention of polishing off Season 1. I don't currently have any plans to watch Season 2 after I finish Season 1, but I remain hopeful that the second half of Season 1 will be so good as to change my mind.

Episode 07:

Spoiler: show
This episode was only decent as far as personal entertainment went, but it was fantastic as far as character development went. And for a huge number of people -- Hachiman, Hayama, Yuigahama, Yukinoshita, the list goes on.

I found the opening scene with the sensei's Overly Attached Girlfriend-esque text messages to be funny.

I enjoyed the JJBA reference that Hachiman made. Something like, "Just as Stand users are naturally attuned to one another, I wonder if loners are naturally attuned to one another." I wouldn't have gotten this reference a year and four months ago!

I enjoyed the various humorous scenes with Totsuka. Partial list:
  • when the gang meets up at the sensei's car, Yui says "Hello~" in a dorky, slangy way that pisses Hachiman off. Then his sister fires back with it. Yukinoshita declines to use it, to Hachiman's amusement and satisfaction. And then Totsuka shows up, totally uses the slang greeting, and Hachiman is like, "So cute. ^-^ We should totally make this a thing!" hahahaha
  • when Hachiman is in the log cabin at night, he can hear Totsuka talking in his sleep, Totsuka says "Hachi ... man ...", and then Hachiman's like, "Yeah, no: I can't sleep. I gotta get out of here."
A gentle reminder that I need to nominate my last few nominees and soon after get the SaiWaifu party started.

The one girl's BL fascination was obvious to me out of the gate. I'm not sure if that's just because I've seen BL-lovin' fujoshi in a number of stories at this point or if it was obvious to everyone. Certainly it becomes obvious to everyone once she goes and proselytizes the entire group on the wonders of BL.

The author's tradition of giving characters comically sound-alike first and last names continues. We had had names before like Hikigaya Hachiman, Yuigahama Yui, and Yukinoshita Yukino. And now we have Tsurumi Rumi, the little girl that Hachiman and the others are trying to help out at summer camp.
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Old 07-31-2015, 01:41 AM   #29
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Oh hey, I'm actually watching this right now too! After plowing through Episodes 5-8 last night, I'm checking out 9 before heading for bed. I've really enjoyed it so far. Humor's right up my ally, and the character's are (almost) all great.
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Old 07-31-2015, 01:50 AM   #30
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Episode 08:

Spoiler: show
Well that seems illegal.

It's sad that in their bid to fix Rumi's standing with the crowd the teenagers had to sacrifice their own friendships with the children. They never explain that what happened wasn't real. And of course they can't, either. They have to maintain the secret if Rumi is to get any credit in the girls' eyes for her heroic actions. But consequently, the teens all get the cold shoulder from Rumi from that point forward -- even Hachiman.

Because I hadn't watched in so long, I had completely forgotten that Yukino's limousine had hit Yui's dog and/or Hachiman diving out into the street to save the dog. But the ending scene reminded me of this subplot.

More Totsuka humorservice. It was appreciated. The part about docking onto the Totsuka route was the best.

The boob joke (i.e. Yukino's lack of them) seemed out of place.

What if things don't go according to plan? What if the girls' friendship with {the girl who was physically pushed forward} is severed and {that girl} has now been made a newborn loner but the remaining three stay friends? What then? I don't feel like enough was done to ensure a happy ending for Rumi and the four other girls.
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Old 07-31-2015, 07:43 AM   #31
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Episode 09:

Spoiler: show
Yuigahama is distractingly attractive with that summer festival look. The hair, the yukata color choice. It is a constant frustration watching OreGairu knowing that stories like this 99% of the time set the "primary female" up for winning the guy's heart in the end while the "secondary female" is at best friend zoned and at worst cast aside. I can appreciate that Yukinoshita has her own positive attributes, but damn if I am not attracted moreso to Yui's cheerful personality and general lack of bitchiness. I get that Yukinoshita is the waifu Ice Queen, but Yui's the waifu Sun Angel and I'm repeating myself but I just plain like Yui more.

The episode continues to separate Doppel's interpretation of the series from my own. I can look for what he alleges the show is all about, and I can find in crevices here or there some supporting evidence for the idea that OreGairu is lampooning the popular romcoms of the day; but in the end, what I see more strongly is an anime which is yet another romcom that succumbs to the tropes rather than subverting them. I don't see Hikigaya as someone with no interest in love and who keeps dodging girls' obvious attempts to ask him out. I instead see a guy who is so afraid of being hurt that he lies to himself that he is perfectly happy being a loner. I see a guy who desperately wants to live the teenage dream but has resented others for it for so long that now he can't allow himself to seek it out lest he feel like a disgusting hypocrite. And that's really the tragedy: his fixation on the hypocrisy is stupid, as really he should well understand that his loner costume is just that -- a costume, a manteau he wears to shield himself from the pain in the world.

I don't really like the guilt bomb dropped by Yukino's sister. "Ahhhhh~ ... if it is true that you two are dating, then I guess this means it'll be the second time that Yukino got rejected. Haaaaaah~" Oh please. That's so tasteless. Guilting Hachiman into giving Yukino a chance. What sort of foundation does that even lay for their relationship? "I wasn't gonna date you, but then your sister told me that if I didn't then it'd be the second time you lost a guy to a rival girl, so ... here I am. Let's date."

I'm still not really feeling the magic that Doppel felt towards this series. If I had to give it a rating right now, I think I'd give it a 5 out of 10. It's a perfectly average romcom anime. It may try to do things slightly differently from many of the others, but in the end it just can't seem to stand out in my eyes. Episodes tend to go in one eye/ear and out the other, and I feel like I'm not watching so much for entertainment as I am for the personal satisfaction of being able to say I've seen it. While I've quickly re-picked up the main characters' names, I still couldn't tell you the names of any of the supporting characters aside from Hayama. Hachiman's sister, Hachiman's overly energetic childhood companion ... hell, I didn't even remember that the girl with the long silver-gray ponytail existed until they showed her putting her shoes away in the shoe locker, and even then all I can recall is, "I know I've seen her in an episode, possibly the fourth episode of the series, that was partially or fully dedicated to her ... but damn if I can remember who she is or what she's all about."
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Old 08-01-2015, 12:47 AM   #32
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I wonder if age/maturity has something to do with how we view this series.

Frankly, there is no direct evidence for either side (yet). It's us drawing conclusions about the character thoughts based on how they behave and monologue. Accusations are made by characters on both sides, so it's kind of a half empty half full scenario.

That said, as I have matured, I have noticed that my tolerance for slice-of-life has depreciated tremendously. I've lost patience with the "trial and tribulation" nature of discovery that comes with the territory in adolescent fiction. And frankly, some of the issues just irritate me. Overall, I think it's helped to shave me down to a cynical, misanthropic person who likes to make black comedy jokes at the expense of morally sensitive issues.

Perhaps I'm projecting my desire for something unique and different onto OreGairu, and I'm seeing things that aren't there. I watched this show independently of my discussion online with it, so I don't think I was influenced by other thoughts as far as considering it a "subversion". Many others independently arrived at that same conclusion. But, this was not the first show I watched that tried to do that - Muv-Luv outright did the same, but had a lot of cues that clued in the viewer that the story was intentionally being cliche. So perhaps there was some projection upon it.

It's too bad you don't share this view! But given Hachiman's age, I think it would have been a serious challenge to convince you that Hachiman is a corrupted, fully matured individual and not an edgy teen trying to avoid being emotionally hurt. The nature of the beast in adolescence is going to negatively bias that line of thinking. A disillusioned adult is far easier to accept just on the basis of age.

That said, Yukino's sister Haruno is a wicked woman. Her personality is pretty darn bad, even if she's beautiful and smart, too.
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Old 08-01-2015, 07:29 AM   #33
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Episode 10:

Spoiler: show
I just feel like I really don't understand this show, like either a) the studio's or else b) the fansubber's English does not process on my wavelength. 50% of the time words go in one ear and out the other even though I am vigilant in my efforts to understand what is being thrown at me. It's not as though the series is high brow or super intellectual. It's about as intellectual as any of the other beloved romcoms of the past ten years; it has some wisdom to share, but by and large it's Yet Another High School Teen Drama™. No, failure to comprehend the subject matter isn't the problem. The problem is failure to even grasp what is going on -- because all too often it feels like people say things which exist more like independent thought bubbles than like conversation balloons on a beaded string.

Even when I understand the dialogue, I have a hard time understanding the characters. I don't understand what Yukino's motives are. She's said to be chasing after her sister, even matching her plans for university-level study with those of Haruno. And yet when she's given an opportunity to be the festival committee chairperson, Yukino declines. Why does she decline? It's not clear, and no one in the show seems to understand why she does it either. Then, this one minor character named Sagami decides to speak up. She says she wants to be the chairperson. And no one objects, so she gets the honor. (More on this in a second!) Later, Sagami approaches Yukino after school. She wants Yukino's help. At first, Yukino objects -- as we would expect her to -- pointing out that Sagami just wants Yukino to do all the work while Sagami will take all the credit. When Sagami insists that that's not the case and that Yukino would only be serving as her aide, to the surprise of everyone, Yukino accepts. "Sure. I'll help. But only as your aide." Okaaaay ... But then what happens? Yukino de facto takes over for Sagami. She keeps cutting her off in committee meetings. She keeps taking on responsibilities that normally you'd expect the committee chairperson to take on. She gives orders, she receives reports, everything a leader would do. Eventually it gets to a point that Sagami just hands Yukino her hanko (signatory stamp) and says that Yukino can sign off on anything in Sagami's absence. "Power of attorney" and whatnot. So like ... what is the point of all of this? I don't get it. Why did Yukino say she didn't want to be the committee chairperson but then she took the position anyway by force? Why does she say she doesn't want to do it yet is clearly allocating so much private time to the job that she ends up making herself sick? What is her motivation? I need to know. Because I don't understand what I am watching otherwise. Is she trying to humiliate Sagami? Is she shy about wanting to emulate Haruno and didn't want everyone comparing the two? Was it her plan all along to get everyone to delegate everything to her only to then vanish on them without warning, such that the festival could very well fail? I have no idea. Hopefully Episode 11 will shed some light on things.

It isn't just Yukino who's confusing. Sagami is too. Sagami says that she wants to be the chairwoman because it will present her with an opportunity for personal growth. Only problem is ... she was clearly lying, or rather being a typical politician. It turns out that she really doesn't want to work hard at this, that she isn't particularly passionate about the position, etc. So she dicks around with her girlfriends, is perpetually late to committee meetings, etc. Okaaay ... What was the point then? Is she a girl who craves popularity but shirks responsibility? Is she a pre-polisci student who has career aspirations in politics and sees "festival committee chairwoman" as a nice bullet point for her resume? Was she trying to impress Hayama or some other boy in school? What is going on here? What is her agenda? Without understanding that, I'm having a hard time a) following along and b) enjoying the episode.

What about Yuigahama? I have absolutely no idea why she's in the committee and was completely lost by that when they introduced it. Not but five minutes before, she was being offered the girls class rep position (alongside Hachiman in the boys class rep position), was entertaining taking it because she has a crush on Hachiman, and then declined taking it because a) the other girls started to tease her about HachiYui and b) she was reminded that she was needed elsewhere. So okay. She doesn't have time for the committee because she's needed elsewhere ................................. oh wait she's on the committee now. What happened!? Was something cut from the book for the sake of time? Did I miss something? Why is Yuigahama on the council when she isn't even an ordinary representative? Maybe I've forgotten from the first half of S1 that Yui's a part of the regular student council or something. Maybe that's it. Someone please remind me if that's the case.

Haruno seems like quite the black-hearted woman at times. ^^; That whole scene with Sagami ...

The scene with the BL-obsessed fujoshi was okay. Token "Totsuka is the cutest" / "Hachiman chooses Totsuka" nod was okay.

Really not much else to say.
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Old 08-01-2015, 03:53 PM   #34
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I'd save those questions for once this arc is finished, and if they're not answered then you can raise them as criticism. Because for right now, I think the show is accomplishing what it wants to by frustrating you. It's showing things that don't make sense, but intends to explain them away as those things unravel.

One of the big keys to OreGairu, I think, is that Hachiman comments that the high school romance everyone wants to be a part of isn't as glamorous as it is idealized. Aside from the main clique of characters, that's largely true. I would hate someone like Sagami in real life.

My own high school life, while interesting at times, was not nearly as impressive as those in animes. Which I think is a near universal agreement with anyone who watches anime. Perhaps Hachiman is a real world person who knows about anime, but isn't aware he's actually in one, yet?
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Old 08-01-2015, 04:42 PM   #35
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Episode 11:

Spoiler: show
Still confused by what's going on. Though on that topic, there is one hypothesis I've just formed. (See next paragraph.) It doesn't help that the subs I'm watching this show with don't seem to be the greatest. I tend to put my trust in them blindly, but because of how confusing and dull I've found the dialogue to often times be, I've started paying closer attention to the spoken Japanese and comparing it with what the subbers offer, and ... for the most part, they get things right, but they tend to be rather liberal and plain in their translations. And when they're not, they go 180° the other way and talk like 4channers or Redditors. (Example: "Epic fail. Saged, reported, call the cops.") There were a few parts I paid close attention to where they were wildly off -- like a part where Hayama mentions something being broken but the translation goes in a completely different direction -- but like I said before, for the most part they are seeming to get things correct and so I really do have to question if it's less the translators' fault and more the screenplay writers'.

With Sagami sitting on the toilet in the women's restroom, I seem to have had a baby epiphany about Yukinoshita's motives. I'm wondering if she's done what she's done ... as a callous sort of favor to Sagami. After all, Sagami did go to the Volunteer Club as a client. Even though she went there specifically requesting an "aide," she made mention during her bid for the chairperson's seat that she wanted this experience to help her personally grow. So maybe Yukino is doing what she's doing ... specifically to engender the situation Sagami is going through right now ... specifically so that Sagami grows as a person. It's pretty fucked up, but I suppose it would fit with the sorts of characters that Hachiman, Yukino, and Haruno are. We'll have to see.

Speaking of Haruno, I find her continued presence to be really weird. She's only a few years older than Yukino, meaning she's probably in college right now. What the fuck is she doing spending her afternoons in her old high school spying on a bunch of underclassmen as they put together their culture festival? So weird. So unrealistic, as far as I know.

I like how Yui basically tells Hachiman this episode, veiled behind poetic word choice, that:
  1. she wants to ask him out
  2. but she's waiting for Yukino to get the courage to do it too/first
  3. however, that doesn't mean that Hachiman can't be the one to ask her (Yui) out first
Adding a layer of humor to this situation, Yui ends up asking Hachiman out anyway on yet another date-that's-not-officially-a-date. "You want to compensate me for the snack I shared with you? Fine! Then take me to the cafe I bought it from and buy me another one!" And then Hachiman realizes that this would essentially be a date. And wiggles his way out of it by deceiving Yui into thinking that he wants to upgrade to a different, better place for their date. Poor Yui. I was hoping they'd reveal that she saw right through Hachiman but sadly she seemed to fall for his tactics hook, line, and sinker.

I don't understand why the kids' slogan for their culture festival references Chiba when, just two episodes ago, the sensei had to take the kids by car to Chiba. It doesn't make sense to me. If Chiba's that far away, how can you guys call yourselves Chiba kids?

I continue to be amused by Le Petit Prince popping up in anime. I feel rewarded by my high school French program's decision to have us read the book in 3rd year French. The story comes up constantly. I've lost count at this point of just how many anime I've seen it referenced in.
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Old 08-01-2015, 08:27 PM   #36
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Episode 12:

Spoiler: show
The episode was okay; the payout was the best part of the episode but it also felt inadequate and thus kinda sorta disappointed. But let's talk about it.

I liked the part where Hachiman tells Sagami exactly what he thinks of her.

I also liked the aspect that, per Hachiman's inner monologue, he told Sagami these things not to be cruel but to try and ensure Yukino was successful in her goal -- aiding Sagami in putting on a successful culture fest.

I disliked Hachiman forcing it at the point he forced it though. It was already clear that Hayama had shown up and managed to get Sagami to return to the stage. Even if she would have done so as a phony, she still would've returned and seen to it that the cultural festival ended without any additional hitches. But Hachiman has to open his big mouth -- for reasons that still elude me -- and risked ruining everything, even his stated goal of aiding Yukinoshita. It made no sense to me.

I'm conflicted over how to feel regarding Hayama's reaction to Hachiman. I both like it and dislike it, am both entertained by it and made uncomfortable by it. It's weird.

I liked the idea that it would take a loner like Hachiman to sniff out Sagami's location ... but then quickly disliked it when he outsourced his search to his loner buddy. It ends up being the loner buddy who gives Hachiman the bright idea to check the roof. I would've liked it better if this were Hachiman's own idea.

I didn't really care that much about the musical number featuring Haruno, the sensei, Yukino, Yui, and the other girl. It felt like a weaksauce Haruhi rock number and the Yukino+Yui duet bit felt like a weaksauce Toradora! duet. Putting such comparisons aside, though, I'm still saying that I didn't care about it. It didn't excite me, the song was not memorable, etc.

I'm surprised that Season 1 more or less seems to be wrapping up here. I always imagined that OreGairu would have more substance to it, not to mention more closure, because of the fact that Doppel rated it a 10 out of 10. Granted: I have rated series 10/10 in the past without them having 100% closure too. (Minami-ke's not a terribly fair comparison since it's more akin to a 4koma comedy manga, but Suzumiya Haruhi's a plenty fair comparison since I rated it 10/10 even with just Season 1 and still do to this day.) But I just don't see how this story can be that satisfying ending where it's ending, given the subject matter. Whether it's a bonafide romcom or whether it's a wolf in sheep's clothing, the fact of the matter is that OreGairu makes me as a viewer badly want to see some resolution to Hachiman x Yukino and Hachiman x Yui ... and not just resolution, but development! That's the thing. As romcoms go, I feel like OreGairu is still somewhere in the middle of its second act! We still have three acts remaining! You can't call it quits here. And, of course, we now know that they don't. And that there's a Season 2. Still though. I expected more out of S1 given Doppel's excitement for it.

One episode to go, but according to the sneak peek it's to be considered a bonus episode. (See above for thoughts.) After this I'll likely press on to the OVA(s) that came out between S1 and S2, but if I'm still not won over by then then I will likely drop out there.
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Old 08-01-2015, 08:40 PM   #37
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Did the episode end with a Yukino-Hachiman conversation?
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Old 08-01-2015, 08:53 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Did the episode end with a Yukino-Hachiman conversation?
Episode 12 ends with the following scene:

Spoiler: show
It is late afternoon, and Hachiman heads to the Volunteer Club clubroom to work on some reports he has to fill out for the culture festival. There he finds Yukino. She teases him, calling him the most unpopular guy in the school presently. After a little banter, he discovers that she is working on some assignment of her own. They both came to the clubroom to work for similar reasons.

Hachiman decides to ask Yukino out, but she misinterprets (or feigns misinterpretation of) his question. She thinks he's going to ask her to be friends, and she rejects him flatly. They talk a little bit, and Yukino reveals that her original reason for not wanting to formally befriend Hachiman -- that she hardly knew the guy -- no longer applies. "I know you quite well now," or some such. It's sort of a bittersweet thing for Hachiman: on the one hand, she's still shooting him down, but on the other hand, when she says that she knows him she does so with a kind smile on her face and in her voice.

Yuigahama soon shows up. It's suggested that she realizes she's interrupting a possible Hachiman x Yukino moment and is simultaneously 1) apologetic but 2) unapologetic insofar as she wants Hachiman x Yui to win. Anyway, she doesn't leave, and she seats herself in between the two. She informs them that Hayama is hosting an after-party at his place. They ask her what "after-party" means. Yui takes a guess but reveals that she isn't certain herself. Yukino and Hachiman tell her they're not going, bringing up their respective assignments. Yui insists that they're going -- the three of them -- and that she'll wait for them until they get their assignments done.

~Fin~
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Old 08-01-2015, 10:29 PM   #39
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Episode 13:

Spoiler: show
Yuuuuup: definitely a bonus episode. I'm not sure whether it was made for TV to fill a gap in the books or whether it's in the books too, but this episode details the events of the athletic festival that follows on the heels of the previous episodes' cultural festival.

I enjoyed the episode okay. First half was kinda meh, second half was better.

In its second half, the episode felt a lot like a poor man's School Rumble. There've been loads of animes to do a sports festival, from Toradora and Haruhi to Ouran and Prisma Ilya. But none've done the sports fest quite like School Rumble has, and it is in particular that series' sports festival which OreGairu's bears so much resemblance to. But it feels watered down. The characters are less "OMG! >D<", their scenes less momentous ... I dunno, I feel that some of this is because I am bringing less investment to the series than I did to School Rumble but I feel that most of it is because I am correct and School Rumble simply did it better. :\

That seems to be the story of my OreGairu viewing, huh? ^^; Constantly comparing it with other anime I've seen. Poor OreGairu.

But it's not all bad! :') I did have things I liked here. For example, I liked the part with Hikigaya and "Hikki Mode." I had forgotten about this "mode," but it makes a return appearance here and in quite the fun, relevant way. I also like how he went the extra mile to ensure it worked by masking his headband with a bandage. And while it was disappointing as far as the outcome went, I also liked how this ended up tying into the plot/the outcome itself.

I also enjoyed Zaimokuza. (That's his name! :')) He's a pretty spot-on mix of awesome and overly autistic, someone who you both love and grow tired of in waves. It's pretty damn fitting for who/what he is supposed to be.

Speaking of forgotten names, remember the silver-haired girl? Yeah, about her: at the end of the episode, they show a montage of scenes from Episodes 01 thru 13 ... and she isn't shown in a single one of the scenes. Not a one. That's how unimportant she is to this series. Even the summer camp kiddos were featured. But not the silver-haired girl.
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Old 08-01-2015, 10:40 PM   #40
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A bit tangentially related Talon, but what did you think of Toy Story 3?
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Old 08-02-2015, 05:15 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
A bit tangentially related Talon, but what did you think of Toy Story 3?
I still haven't gotten a chance to see it.
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Old 08-02-2015, 01:42 PM   #42
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I suspect there might be a philosophical difference as to what we value in endings for shows. I see OreGairu's ending as not dissimilar from Natsu no Arashi, both "baby steps" endings that I really love to see, especially when the romance is unconventional and improbable. In certain cases, I like things being left up to the imagination, especially when the writer says something concrete so as to heavily suggest what was happening.

In Natsu no Arashi's case, you have a feeling the romance isn't going to work out. But I want to believe, so I don't care for actually seeing it break apart or come to fruition. Ending on feelings of optimism and hope for it working out is a good place for the viewer to bid sayonara to the title.

But not just optimism: the original ending of Muv-Luv Unlimited was very powerful, as it created a sense that the world was a cosmic force out of control of a single person. It was a very sobering feeling of helplessness, and ended with one of the series most iconic image: a wrecked TSF in a repose of death, reaching toward the distant heavens. The ending for Alternative was moving too, but both were really good.

To explain Toy Story 3, I thought TS2 had a godly ending, while TS3 sucked. In fact I objected to the whole premise of TS3 because it was predictable and sappy. Why would people want to watch something definitive like that? TS2 was basically Happy Ever After, why would you deliberately want to see what happens after that?

Here in OreGairu, Yukino and Hachiman both have some serious emotional problems. Yukino seems utterly incapable of letting someone get close to her, and expecting her to radically unravel over the course of the first season is a bit too much. But at the very end, there's a glimmer of hope where she lets Hachiman get a little closer to her than he was. I appreciated that a lot because the series did a solid job (for me) of illustrating how screwed up the two of them were, yet how this odd marriage might progress into something if they hang around long enough.
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Old 08-02-2015, 06:40 PM   #43
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OVAs can generally be divided into two categories: bonus episodes and canon episodes. Canon episodes are a part of the main story and tend to either bridge television seasons or else finish off stories whose television broadcasts ended prematurely for one reason or another. They should not be skipped if you want to know the full story. By contrast, bonus episodes tend to have the following properties:
  • they don't develop the plot, as they tend to be made-for-TV (or made for home video, in this case) and don't tend to be direct adaptations of the same source material used to make the TV series
  • they don't develop the characters, or if they do it's in the most inconsequential of ways. This is especially true for bonus episodes that come in the middle of the source story rather than coming at the end of it.
  • they tend to be fan servicey. I don't mean in the T&A sense, I mean in the "for the fans, by the fans" sense. If you're not already a fan, you're probably not going to have a great time. If you are already a fan, then you should at least mildly enjoy what's on offer.
The OreGairu OAV is definitely in the latter category. I am 99% certain having seen it that it is not an adaptation of any of the chapters in the light novels. And even if it were, I can assure you that you would not be missing out on anything if you skipped this one. No plot developments, no significant character development ... it's the sort of episode that should be watched only by those who are already really enjoying OreGairu.

OVA:

Spoiler: show
So you might guess that I didn't really enjoy it. And you'd be right. ^^; I found it difficult to follow once again -- this time I was watching with subs that I could swear were done by someone who doesn't speak English natively -- and even when I could follow along what I found waiting for me was boredom, irritation, and apathy.

The OAV toys around with the idea that Komachi, Hachiman's little sister, is a legit candidate for the OreGairu harem. There's a lot of fan service in this one that's intended to titillate imoutokons, but I found Komachi's exuberance to be grating, her energy levels too over the top. The episode ended up coming across as a weak Carnival Phantasm-style episode rather than coming across as a strong but fun OreGairu episode.

The subject matter was pretty boring too -- something something poll about what people want from a wedding something something Hiratsuka-sensei is 30 years old and still unmarried something something. I get the gag, and I can even appreciate it in better series, but here in OreGairu it's just annoying. And it's not enough to carry an entire episode, either.

The script, both in content and in dialogue, struck me quite strongly as being similar to the radio drama MP3s we often find on OSTs. You know the ones: the audio files where the voice actors perform a 5 to 15-minute sketch in character. Something like the SOS Brigade tackling the problem of a child's kite stuck in a tree. They tend to be hammy, vociferous, and energetic. That's what this episode felt like to me -- a radio drama except one with actual video to go along with its audio.

Series review next post. (Yes, yes: I'm aware there's a second season now. Too bad! )
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Old 08-02-2015, 08:13 PM   #44
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When my good friend Doppleganger recommended I check out OreGairu, I took his suggestion to heart. He went out of his way to create a separate thread for the series, and at a time when the only person who was frequently doing this in Anime was me. And he rated it a 10/10! Doppel has been known to pride himself on the fact that he doesn't dispense 10/10s often. He also has been known to point out that, for him, a score of 10/10 really does mean "Masterpiece" -- it isn't enough to say, "I loved this show to pieces and it's in my Top 10 favorite shows ever," it has to actually be flawless. "Flawed masterpiece" is a term Doppel's coined for many of his 9/10s, series he loves as much as a 10/10 but which are flawed in one form or another, forcing him to objectively give the series a lower final score. So when Doppel rated OreGairu a 10/10, I knew that it meant he thought it was not only great but also flawless. And when I considered the genre -- high school romcom -- I felt like I was going to be in for a treat.

I'm not happy with the outcome. I don't like raining on people's parades, least of all my friends'. No one likes it when someone downgrades your favorite show. Some of us are bothered by it more than others, but I think that just about everyone is at least slightly perturbed when someone takes your 10/10 and gives it a 5/10. So I want to disclaim that nothing I am about to say I say with ill intentions. I'm just offering my end-of-series review like I almost always do. You're free to disagree with what I have to say. I'm just going to explain how I felt about certain categories and why.

------------------------------------------

Plot: 5/10 for a high school romcom, would probably be a 4/10 or lower otherwise but I acknowledge that the plot in OreGairu is pretty damn standard for the genre and certainly doesn't feel like a bad plot. Weak? Oh, absolutely. But not any more so than, say, the plot in Nyan Koi!. I don't think this is a story you watch for the plot. Certainly not Season 1 all on its own, anyway.

Characters: 5/10 I found everyone in this series to be perfectly average for a romcom anime. Generic, even. Oh sure: Hachiman is slightly different than usual protagonists. Yuigahama and Yukinoshita are slightly different from usual Girl No.1 and Girl No.2 characters. But for the most part? Not really. Things get really bad once we leave the main trio. Then I think there can be no debate: everyone outside of the main trio is categorically plain yogurt average. I could transpose to or from OreGairu any number of secondary plain characters and a newcomer wouldn't be able to tell something was amiss with either the source or the target series. (E.g. I could transport Zaimokuza to Hyouka and you wouldn't know he didn't belong there. I could transport the mail carrier from Nyan Koi! into OreGairu and you wouldn't be able to tell she didn't belong to the OreGairu universe.) I will forget every single one of the secondary characters' names within one year, I wager, unless otherwise reminded by sources outside myself; and I will forget Hachiman's, Yui's, and Yukino's names too inside of five years, I reckon. That's where I'm coming from when I rate the character category score a 5 out of 10. It's that bad for me. None of the characters are really bad ... they're just not great either.

Animation: 4/10 in terms of how it looks and feels, but perhaps a score of 5/10 or higher would be fairer in consideration of the team's budget (or lack thereof). I don't know the details. All I know is, in terms of technique / in terms of how it technically looks, it looks like shit an under-budgeted high school romcom even by 2012's standards, much less 2015's. Like ... I know not every studio can be 2010 KyoAni, but OreGairu at times looks less well animated than Studio Deen's Maria-sama ga Miteru (2004) or Madhouse's Chobits (2002). Chobits I'll give you was probably well funded (yay CLAMP money), but no realistic sum of money is going to justify why an anime ten years your senior still looks better than you do. The problem gets worse for OreGairu when you consider that most high school romcoms have relatively few costs of animation outside of the characters' faces. There's little to no action. There are few to no unearthly textures. This isn't Fate/Zero or Hunter x Hunter we're talking about here. This is a slow-paced romcom set in a real high school in real Chiba, Japan. All the more reason we should expect the character animation to be clean, sharp, and vibrant.

Music: 5/10 Same damn problem as with the characters. None of the music in the series was bad, but it never really captivated me either. All of the episodes' background music is generic background music that I hardly even noticed was there. (To its credit, then: it did its job! ) The OP was okay but I wouldn't go listening to it over and over again. Same idea with the ED, although slightly different: I actually quite like the melody of the ED's chorus, but the rest of the melody I'm not too crazy about and the lyrics kinda ruin it for me too. :\ But yeah, ED chorus melody is good.

Replay Value: The only reason I'd re-watch S1 would be to refresh my memory on the characters and events in preparation for a viewing of S2. That aside, I don't think I will ever want to watch this one again.

OVERALL: 5/10 OreGairu isn't bad, per se. It's mediocre. It doesn't do enough to stand out from the crowd for me to really care or take notice. It isn't a show I'd ever recommend to someone, but neither is it a series I regret spending time on. The time investment was low and I can't act like it was torture to watch it. It was never torture. It was just ... boring.
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Old 08-02-2015, 08:38 PM   #45
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I feared this. The series hinges almost completely on your attitude of Hachiman, as the plot and story more or less revolve around him. If you view him as little more than an immature, angsty teen, the story falls flat. We're pretty much in agreement about the art, animation, music and characters outside of the main cast.

It's too bad. It seems I've swung and missed twice on two series I really liked that you were merely tepid towards, so I'll have to take this into consideration the next type I choose to hype something to you. As I said, I do think there's a philosophical preference at work here that I will be more mindful toward.
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Old 08-03-2015, 07:37 AM   #46
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... Well look who's back! ^^; I decided to watch the first episode of the second season, curious to see what changes if any were made to the animation, characters, presentation, and so forth. And you know something? I had a fun time! I know it sounds crazy, but there was something of a nostalgic feeling being "reunited" with these characters after ... what? Several hours? Yeah. It seems crazy to me too. But it is what it is: my heart was definitely warmed to be reunited with these characters for a second touring, despite all that I wrote (and still stand by) about the weak character writing in Season 1.

The animation in Season 2 gets an upgrade over its Season 1 predecessor. It still doesn't look anywhere near as good as the best that 2015 has to offer, but it's also one to two budget levels removed from the look and feel of Season 1. You'll notice it immediately -- because S2E01 opens with a re-animation of part of the climax of Season 1, and if you're like me and you just watched that scene only 24 hours prior, it will be immediately obvious. Thankfully, they didn't just decide to re-animate the climax and then return to their S1 standards -- the great good character animation continues on throughout the episode. Yuigahama looks vibrant. Hachiman looks sharper. Even Yukinoshita looks a lot more vibrant -- which honestly I'm kinda iffy on since the loveliness of her S2 face seems to clash with the iciness of her personality.

Another obvious upgrade is the direction. I'm not sure whether S2 has a new director or whether the first director took criticisms to heart and changed how he's doing things this season, but either way, this season looks and feels a hell of a lot better than Season 1 ever did.

For starters, I can actually understand what's going on now! While I think this can partially be attributed to the fan translation, sure, this goes well beyond words in sentences -- we're talking at the root level of ideas that are communicated. The communication between director and viewer is so much more intelligible now. If before it felt like the director would go from A to D to Fish to Saturn, now it feels like he goes from A to B to C to D. It's so much better.

Another obvious upgrade is the dialogue. A huge part of it is the script itself. There's some overlap with what I just wrote above, but here what I want to focus on is the fun and flavorful aspect of the dialogue. The show is a lot more fun to watch now. Yuigahama's excitement when Ebina entered the club room was palpable. Hachiman's personality comes across so much more clearly now. Another huge part of the dialogue upgrade is the voice acting. I mentioned Yuigahama and Hachiman already, and they once again are the primary recipients of the shot in the arm in S2E01. Hachiman has gone from sounding like an aloof, self-styled bad guy -- basically a teen with a bad case of Doppel's "I'm evil! X3" chuunibyou -- to sounding like the love child of Naruto's Shikamaru and Suzumiya Haruhi's Kyon. The Sugita-ization of Hachiman is something I welcome, even if not everyone does. I'm not saying that I wish all male leads in romcoms sounded and acted like Kyon. Nor am I saying that I think Sugita-ized Hachiman holds a candle to Kyon. He's in Kyon's shadow, alright, and the characters are too different for the contest to hold anyway. But no, why I like the Sugita-ized Hachiman so much more than what we had in Season 1 is that:
  1. paradoxically, the rapid speed with which he delivers his philosophical ramblings actually makes his trains of thought easier to follow rather than more difficult
  2. Sugita-ized, he's much more amusing now, and I'm enjoying him that much more because of it
  3. he feels much more like a man in control of his own life rather than a listless teenager adrift in the sea of adolescence
These last two bullet points I could see being controversial with some fans of the franchise. They might feel that it contravenes his character. But personally, I see both as upgrades. I find S2 Hachiman to be much more enjoyable than S1 Hachiman.

Alright! Time for spoiler discussion.

Zoku Episode 01:

Spoiler: show
When Tobe confessed that he has a crush on Ebina, I was very confused at first. A holdover from my S1 viewing, I don't know the supporting characters' names very well. So I just assumed that Ebina was the blonde beauty that he and Hayama always hang out with. It wasn't until what felt like ten minutes later (but was probably only five), after the real Ebina visits the club room and gushes about BL, after they board the train car to head to Kyoto, that I figured out that Hina is the blonde and Ebina is the BL girl. I think it was around the part where they enter the one building that they act like is scary? Yeah. ^^; I wish this had been communicated more clearly. I suppose the director can be forgiven for assuming that Zoku viewers are S1 veterans and that S1 veterans should already know the characters' names, but a 2-second directorial trick or two could've easily linked in viewers' minds the name with the face. Oh well.

I got really excited though when Tobe came in and requested assistance from the Volunteer Club. I felt like this was single-handedly the most exciting thing we had seen in OreGairu yet, more exciting than anything Season 1 had to offer. It wasn't just the "omg teen romantic drama X3" aspect, although that was part of it too. (Oh, Yuigahama. You know us too well. ) It was ... well, one big part of it was the actually getting to see big stuff happen to big characters. Like, yes, I know: Tobe isn't big, and neither really is Hayama. But like ... previous volunteer club requests have been boring and small-scale, whereas this was more exciting and mid-sized scale ... and it felt even larger-scale owing to the fact that it concerns a friend of a friend of the group's.

One of my absolute favorite parts of the episode was when Yukino asked Tobe and Hayama to leave after they were so disrespectful towards Hachiman. That was possibly the No.1 best scene in all of OreGairu so far for me. Absolutely loved it.

One thing S2 seems to have done, although maybe this is just me perceiving things, is that it has devoted itself to its running gags wholeheartedly. Like ... before, in S1, the running gag that Hachiman chooses Totsuka as the winner was dealt with more ... seriously? "Seriously"'s not quite the right word, but ... more ... more, um ... less whimsically? ^^; Whereas S2 is having a lot more fun with it. I want to say that in Episode 01 alone the "Totsuka is mai waifu" gag came up at least twice. (Once in the classroom and once on the train.) It might have come up even more than that, I can't recall. And both times it came up it was delivered with the sort of energy and brovado that Sugita Tomokazu delivers his Kyon lines. Gags about Yukino's icy personality came across better. Gags about Yui's vibrant outward personality came across better. It just plain felt like S2 was more in the mood to crack jokes than S1 and that this being in the mood was subconsciously apparent to the audience and made the jokes better received.

I was surprised by Yui complaining about Kyoto saying there's nothing to do there. At least in anime, Kyoto seems like the No.1 most common destination for a school trip, although I think the putative No.1 is definitely Okinawa, which Yui refers to. (What I mean is, I think that in real life Okinawa may be No.1 and in anime the characters may likewise believe that Okinawa is No.1, but that in practice we see Kyoto being the destination in anime much more often than we see Okinawa.) There's plenty to see in historic Kyoto, from architecture (temples, shrines, castles) to unique cuisine to unique souvenirs, etc. I mean, it may not be a beach, but even if you went to Okinawa you wouldn't be playing on the beach 24/7 either. I dunno. Suffice it to say that Yuigahama would've rather they went to Okinawa but Yukinoshita was quite happy to go to Kyoto, having even already purchased a Kyoto tour guide magazine.

I was surprised by Yukino's hair in the closing chapter of the episode. It felt out of character. Maybe that just goes to show how little I know her character. *shrug*

I hadn't really been planning to, but I guess I will go ahead and keep on watching S2 for now. Current score would be a 6.5/10, which I realize is cheating so ... if I had to pick one, I guess it'd be a 6. Still! That's already one point better than the 5 I handed to S1, and I can only hope the score will continue to improve from here.
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Old 08-17-2015, 12:59 AM   #47
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I finished Zoku, and honestly, I didn't care for it. It took away some of the things I loved about season 1. Sure, more happened, but that touchey feeley shit doesn't belong in I'm A Frog! I gave it a 6 as opposed to the 9 I gave season 1. I'm sure the people who didn't care for the cynicism in season 1 would like season 2 better.

Also my favorite scene from season 1 was actually (end of show spoilers)
Spoiler: show
when Hachiman started smarting off to the girl who nominated herself as the committee head. She was such a lazy, obnoxious attention whore, and it felt so good when he railed on her!
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