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Old 12-05-2017, 04:16 PM   #476
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I don't have my kanji etymology reference on me at the moment but my understanding is that all cardinal direction kanji have a similar origin with regards to borrowing, though that's not a particularly unique quality among abstract yet basic kanji.
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Old 12-05-2017, 05:03 PM   #477
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I just think it's interesting/strange when more basic concepts' characters are either built upon (or, in this case, are outright thieves of) less basic concepts' characters. For example ...
日 = sun
勿 = must not; may not

Okay, fine ... that second one's not exactly "common" but whatever, let's roll with it.

易 = divination, fortune-telling

Okaaay ... we're getting more complex here, but that's good! The more complex the concept, the more complex the character.

場 = place

...
Or like ...
氏 = clan

Okay, cool.

氐 = Di (ancient Chinese ethnic group)

O-kaaaaaay ...

⺅= radical form of 人 person

Well sure ...!

低 = short, low

orz

(Even if we take this as a jab at the Di people, it still doesn't change the fact that either we wrote out of existence an earlier character signifying "short; low" or else we gave the Di people their own character before we even came up with one for a fundamental adjective.)
Usually it works the other way around, for which I am grateful. Especially best is when a story is told within, as is the case with characters like 歯, 喜, 薬, and 投. But even if there's not a clear story, even if it's just a case of grabbing a radical for the sake of its reading, it usually makes more sense when more advanced concepts build upon more basic ones. Why do 穴 and 工 come before 空? Why does 各 come before 落? Usually things are fairly evenly matched (like 農 preceding 濃 or 童 preceding 瞳, where honestly I can see the temporal order going either way). Often times the simpler concept wins out, as with 言 getting to be the base of so many other characters. But it's just when the more esoteric or rare-to-hear concepts get the basic radicals for characters that I'm like ... "What!?"

Not saying it's bad. It's just interesting, is all. Will be interesting to learn the stories behind these various, seeming peculiarities.
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Old 12-29-2017, 01:19 PM   #478
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カチューシャ (n) (named after a character in Tolstoy's novel "Resurrection") Alice band (rus: Katyusha); horseshoe-shaped hairband made of metal or plastic (often covered with cloth)



Kachuusha.
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:53 PM   #479
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おもむろに 《徐ろに; 徐に》 (adv) (1) (uk) suddenly; abruptly; (2) (uk) (original meaning) deliberately; slowly; gently



Perhaps what ESL learners feel towards a word like "terrific."
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:53 PM   #480
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Most people assume that "peruse" means "to skim through casually" but it actually means "to examine very carefully".
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:48 PM   #481
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N2 results are available to those who took the test in Japan and the United States.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Took the 2017 JLPT N2 today. Perhaps more details later.
Whoops. Well, in brief: I was very confident that I failed. When I took the N3, I was 50/50 on whether I had passed or failed. When I took the N2, I was more like 5/95 or 10/90. Very, very confident I had failed. Primary reasons being:
  • I had not made the kanji goals. I knew how to write 771 characters and knew how to read approx. 150-200 more, but you're supposed to know ~1100 characters when you sit the test and in addition a lot of the characters I know right now are N1's, meaning I'm missing a lot of N2's. (For example, as of this post I can both read and write 繭, 龍, and 紫 but I can neither read nor write 述 or 担.)
  • I bombed the listening section. I guessed on well over half the questions.
My results are in, and I managed to eke out a passing grade. But when I say "eke out," I mean it: my scores reflect that I not only barely passed but that I have a lot of work ahead of me to get to the point where I would score on the N2 the way that I scored on last year's N3. Of course, if employers don't care about the nitty gritty details of my scores then I have no reason to re-sit the exam this coming December: I'm done with the JLPT until years from now when I sit the N1. But at the end of the day it's not about scores or certificates: it's about how well you truly understand the language. And right now, as of the writing of this post, I feel like I have little to boast about regarding my passing the N2. This isn't faux modesty or humble bragging. This is me sincerely saying, I think I got lucky; and I think before I can consider myself anywhere near an N2, I have an additional ~300 characters to learn, I need to complete my review of my third-year college material, and I need to pick up the N2-advised grammar that I haven't even gotten around to yet because I ran out of time in 2017.

My metric has always been this: "an N2 is someone who can read a light novel with minimal dictionary use; an N1, someone who can do the same with the newspaper." Right now, I still fall short of that N2 metric. But my plan had always been for 2018 to be the year where I really start to change that, and while I've lost a lot of time over the past four weeks, I made a lot of progress in mid-December and hope to make much more progress this coming month.

Still, it's wonderful to have passed -- even if I have to work to fill the shoes, at least I have the shoes. It will be nice to be able to honestly place on my resume that I am N2-certified.
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:35 PM   #482
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這 connotes crawling in Japanese but "this" in Chinese. (Contrast with Japanese 之 and 此 for "this".) In either case, it originally meant "to meet" in Chinese, so in both languages it has drifted away from its original meaning. It's a really simple character, consisting of only two radicals and both very basic ones ... yet it's beyond Joyo prescriptions and is attached to a verb that, honestly, while basic in a human experience sense you still won't see used in conversation every day.

Bonus: just realized, I can't think of any verbs off the top of my head that end in ふ. Looking into it, two things. First, it appears that there are few to no verbs in modern Japanese ending in ふ. Second, it appears that a great number of verbs ending in う historically ended in ふ. :o You're probably familiar with the terms ichidan for る verbs and godan for う verbs. Well, apparently once upon a time we had nidan and yodan distinctions -- in the time of Heian-kyo -- and all of the verbs that were previously yodans and today end in う ... back then ended in ふ! Anyway, 這う is one such verb -- it was previously 這ふ, in ancient times. The more you know™!
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:05 AM   #483
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Spreading the word in case we happen to have any U.S. federal employees here, present or future, who are also interested in studying abroad in Japan for a year:
The Mansfield Fellowship Program provides up to ten federal employees with one year of professional development and networking opportunities in Japan. It was established by the U.S. Congress in 1994 to build a corps of U.S. federal government employees with proficiency in the Japanese language and practical, firsthand knowledge about Japan and its government.

The Mansfield Fellowship Program includes seven weeks of language training in Ishikawa Prefecture and ten months of professional assignments in the Government of Japan. During the one-year program, Fellows will develop an in-depth understanding of Japan’s government and its policymaking process and create networks of contacts with their counterparts in the Japanese government, business, professional, and academic communities.

Fellowships are awarded on a competitive basis to mid-career government employees with a professional interest in Japan. Successful candidates will join a diverse pool of Mansfield Fellows who currently serve in senior positions with the U.S. government.
An old friend showed me this and thought I would share. I don't think we do have any active members currently who work for the federal government, let alone are advanced enough in their careers to be considered "mid-career" or in "senior positions", but things can always change (new members show up, old members get new jobs), and I figured I'd spread awareness that this is an actual thing for those who are interested. There may even be similar programs in other countries, so be sure to investigate if you work outside the USA but would have otherwise qualified.
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:32 AM   #484
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Writing a summoning chant for a certain Pokemon. I think this looks right, it's pretty simple. My main reason is to double check if there are more common/easier ways to pronounce it, since there's a lot of alliteration here that I dunno native speakers would use. I also need a second line.

Almost all chants like this have a second line that involves "BECOME THE LIGHT", which seems perfect? Just drop the Z-Move in here and case closed? Except, because I have "hikari ni kaeru" which accurately describes what happens, there's some redundancy not present in other chants. NO OTHER chants of this style mention "hikari" in line 1, it's almost always a metaphor for light, like

"opening the door" > "become the path light shines on"

I can't think of any metaphors that are specific to the game.

「集いし結晶の黒が新たな進化の光に帰る。
(INSERT SOMETHING HERE)
ウルトラバースト!
生来せよ、
《ウルトラ・ネクロズマ!!》」
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:09 AM   #485
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I don't really know what you're looking for there but it should be noted that this "光に帰る" means "come home to the light", which sounds kind of weird. If you want to say return, 戻る is more appropriate.
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:08 AM   #486
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Thanks! These chants are either metaphorical or describe what's literally happening. So I would use something like

復活の咆吼が宇宙に響く

For the second line, although I'm not sure if inochi/fukkatsu, sakebi/hokou or uchuu/sekai or even 都心.

Another possibility: 命のメロディが世界に響く

...

I like this one:

「集いし結晶の黒が新たな進化の光に戻る。
怪しいのメロディが宇宙に響く
ウルトラバースト!
生来せよ、
《ウルトラ・ネクロズマ!!》」

Technically, the roar/scream happens the Ultra Burst, doesn't it? So I'm not sure that fits...
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Last edited by Doppleganger; 03-12-2018 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:18 AM   #487
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I'm not really any kind of expert on Japanese poetry or religious chants or anything but from my experience these kinds of things generally echo poetic tropes with regards to language use and unless they're trying to invoke some ridiculous on'yomi compound or a specific Buddhist term (which are almost all borrowings via China) they'll stick mostly to native Japanese words over Chinese borrowings or gairaigo.

For the first one, 命 appears pretty frequently in poetry (it's also got the benefit of being 3 mora and a nice native word for the broad concept of life) so it's probably a more natural choice. If you want to talk about the world broadly, 世の中 is probably one of the more poetic options, but if you want to strictly talk about the universe as in the cosmos, 宇宙 is the most literal option. 世界 exists somewhere in between them both and also kind of implies more of the mortal world in this kind of context, as opposed to 異界 which is roughly the idea of a spirit world.

Also I am not familiar with the word 咆吼 and the kanji you've chosen seem to be the less used ones. Just looking at my dictionary, I found a native word that might be more appropriate or at least more stylistically pleasing: http://jisho.org/word/轟き

For the second, it'd be a little weird to use a gairaigo word in something that's supposed to be like an ancient spell or summoning chant. It doesn't look like any native words quite hit on this concept and I don't really know of a good word, but my dictionary lists 諧調 with the meaning of "harmonious melody, harmony, euphony". It looks to be a word not really used in Japanese but is a common-ish word in Chinese for this kind of thing. It might be a better fit over メロディー in the second one.
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:55 PM   #488
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I was under the impression Dopple was intending to say "光に変える" since it reads the same as 帰る.
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Paradise lies beyond the horizon, challenge it because it is unreachable.
Speak of the absolute territory, and grasp it with your hands.


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FLOOF AND MOFUMOFU JUSTICE! *WHACK*


Spoiler: show

"Quit poking my face! >_<"
"Ahahaha, you'll never get rid of this! *hiss*"

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"STOP POKING MY SISTER!"

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"That was a terrible idea. But holy carp, this tastes pretty nice."


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"YOUKOSO WAGA CRAZY E"



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Old 03-12-2018, 01:42 PM   #489
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The verb is kaeru, but I only had kana so I picked the top result for "most common kanji" usage. But it seems Jeffrey's isn't very good at ranking them by grade level!

I've got an idea to add ambiguity with regard to roar/melody...歌!

「集いし結晶の黒が新たな進化の光に変える。
怪しいの歌が時に響く
ウルトラバースト!
生来せよ、
《ウルトラ・ネクロズマ!!》」

I wanted to avoid using both toki and houko because of Palkia. Alternatively,

「集いし結晶の黒が新たな進化の歌に来る。
天焦がす滅亡の光となれ!
ウルトラバースト!
生来せよ、
《ウルトラ・ネクロズマ!!》」
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ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
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Old 03-12-2018, 02:00 PM   #490
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Since you're aiming to say "to change darkness to light", it would be more appropriate to say 変える. However, the whole thing with your choice is that it's returning to its original state, so 帰る also works. Things like this I've often found writers have left ambiguous by using kana only so it's understandable either way. Makes translating a pain in the ass though, but tl;dr you're right either way more or less.
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The Kamen Fleet (TL5 / A- Grade Referee) | Cameron Kalmia: Viridian's Maskmaker
Hizumi Yukikaze: Emerald Breeze~ | Tokikou Nobuyuki: Time Mage
Ludger Bullenaar: Bastion of Raji City | Helena Levinton: Violet Stitching
Shizuya Kasen: SHSL Armourer

Waifu Squadron and Explorers | Cavern of Chaotic Creativity




Paradise lies beyond the horizon, challenge it because it is unreachable.
Speak of the absolute territory, and grasp it with your hands.


Spoiler: show


SAAVE ME


FLOOF AND MOFUMOFU JUSTICE! *WHACK*


Spoiler: show

"Quit poking my face! >_<"
"Ahahaha, you'll never get rid of this! *hiss*"

Spoiler: show

"STOP POKING MY SISTER!"

Spoiler: show

"That was a terrible idea. But holy carp, this tastes pretty nice."


Spoiler: show
Kamen's mind:

"YOUKOSO WAGA CRAZY E"



Love burns brightly for one and all.

Spoiler: show


Please don't diss idols or fluffy things in my presence.
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Old 03-12-2018, 07:04 PM   #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KamenAeons View Post
I was under the impression Dopple was intending to say "光に変える" since it reads the same as 帰る.
I think the whole passage is riddled with similar problems. Look at that first bit of text: "集いし". It's utterly nonsensical, but if you sound it out and note context it becomes clear he was trying to say 熱いし, as in 情熱, likely having heard it in an anime (and quite probably the Sun and Moon anime).

Re: kaeru, I think you're glossing over transitive vs. intransitive again, Doppel. If you really want to go with 変 (change / turn into) rather than something like 成 (become), then I think your English sentence indicates you want 変わる rather than 変える. You're asking someone to change into light, i.e. they become light. You're not asking someone to change someone or something else into light, i.e. they effect change outside themselves.

"TURN THEM ALL INTO ZOMBIES!" would use something like 変える.
"TURN INTO A ZOMBIE!" would use something like 変わる.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
For the second, it'd be a little weird to use a gairaigo word in something that's supposed to be like an ancient spell or summoning chant. It doesn't look like any native words quite hit on this concept and I don't really know of a good word, but my dictionary lists 諧調 with the meaning of "harmonious melody, harmony, euphony". It looks to be a word not really used in Japanese but is a common-ish word in Chinese for this kind of thing. It might be a better fit over メロディー in the second one.
I agree with Jeri that, generally, foreign loan words sound weird in what is meant to be an authentic-sounding Japanese sutra or chant. I think there can be contextual exceptions, especially in fiction writing; but generally speaking, one of the hallmarks of modern Japanese is all the gairaigo; and thus conversely one of the features of classical Japanese that your subconscious notices is the absence of loan words. And sutras belong to the world of classical Japanese, not contemporary.

Luckily, we have a native Japanese word that can replace メロディー. And that's 旋律 senritsu. I mean, it isn't pre-Chinese native, but ...

Getting to the heart of the matter, though ...

None of us here can help you out with an authentic-sounding sutra, Doppel. And that's because:


an authentic sutra doesn't follow the conventions of Japanese grammar. So if it's sutras you're after, then this task is probably beyond anyone here's pay grade. If it's simply a Pokémon Sun & Moon-style shounen motto that Doppel-Ash says each time before he does The Thing™, then while you've inched closer in the last 24 hours ... you're still not quite there yet, and with over one hour's investment I think I'm all tapped out.
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:08 AM   #492
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Some more intransitive & transitive pairs, selected from a song I was just listening to:

染まる 染める / somaru someru / to stain, to dye
止まる 止める / tomaru tomeru / to stop
続く 続ける / tsudzuku tsudzukeru / to continue

I don't want to say "every single Japanese verb has a transitive-intransitive pair," as that's demonstrably false, but I often feel like it's true. The number is probably something around 40% to 60% of the five hundred most commonly-used verbs coming with a partner. I can't emphasize enough the importance of studying this topic and understanding when to apply which of the verbs in each pair.

To my surprise, this topic was not introduced until my second year of Japanese. I could have sworn it was introduced in the first year. It's that important, that foundational to speaking proper Japanese.

Further reading:
Tae Kim
Wikibooks
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:47 AM   #493
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Is はじまれ shortened to just はじめ, or are they different things entirely?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Some more intransitive & transitive pairs, selected from a song I was just listening to:

染まる 染める / somaru someru / to stain, to dye
止まる 止める / tomaru tomeru / to stop
続く 続ける / tsudzuku tsudzukeru / to continue

I don't want to say "every single Japanese verb has a transitive-intransitive pair," as that's demonstrably false, but I often feel like it's true. The number is probably something around 40% to 60% of the five hundred most commonly-used verbs coming with a partner. I can't emphasize enough the importance of studying this topic and understanding when to apply which of the verbs in each pair.

To my surprise, this topic was not introduced until my second year of Japanese. I could have sworn it was introduced in the first year. It's that important, that foundational to speaking proper Japanese.

Further reading:
Tae Kim
Wikibooks
The original chant I based this off of had the equivalent of ときをとまる. From what I read about the transitive/intransitive, this shouldn't be possible because it specifies a direct object but pairs it with an incompatible verb conjugation. Without knowing the details, it sounded wrong just because I'm familiar with the meme regarding Dio Brando: his famous catphrase ときよとまれ was known as ときをとまれ in English and the mistake persisted because people insisted を was right and よ was wrong.

I'm starting to be more cognizant of this!
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Last edited by Doppleganger; 03-13-2018 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 03-13-2018, 06:49 PM   #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
The original chant I based this off of had the equivalent of ときをとまる. From what I read about the transitive/intransitive, this shouldn't be possible because it specifies a direct object but pairs it with an incompatible verb conjugation. Without knowing the details, it sounded wrong just because I'm familiar with the meme regarding Dio Brando: his famous catphrase ときよとまれ was known as ときをとまれ in English and the mistake persisted because people insisted を was right and よ was wrong.

I'm starting to be more cognizant of this!
Side note: apparently 「時よ、止まれ!」is the Japanese localization of the well-known line from Goethe's Faust, "Verweile doch! Du bist so schön" in which Faust explains to Mephistopheles that the condition for his death, for the flip-flop of their arrangement as master and servant, shall be when he encounters a moment so exquisite it makes him say, "O, Moment! Stay awhile! For you are so beautiful." 「時よ止まれ、お前は美しい」, "Stop, Time! Thou art beautiful." Or some such.

Side side note: if one googles 運命よ, the top hit is the Japanese localization of a Michael Jordan quote: 「運命よ、そこをどけ、俺が通る。」"Fate, outta my way. I'm comin' through." I can't seem to find the original English quote, although "out of my way" for Michael Jordan gives a lot of returns for this one time he slam dunked against Charles Barkley.
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Old 03-15-2018, 01:51 PM   #495
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I had forgotten about this: バイキング Viking is the Japanese term for an all-you-can-eat buffet. バイキング料理, rather than meaning Viking cuisine, refers to a buffet.
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:26 PM   #496
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In the newest Overlord there's a line (taken from the novel, apparently) where Shalltear, I presume, tries to haughtily say われわれわ and it comes out as a timid わららわ and it's just the cutest thing I've ever picked up on in Japanese. I can only assume it's stumbling over her words, but if you had presented this to me academically, I don't think the effect would have been so pronounced.
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Old 03-21-2018, 08:28 PM   #497
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BORKED

This is a really good introduction to くれる / あげる / もらう. It omits politeness levels in favor of keeping things simple and establishing a solid footing for students. I came upon it the other night while trying to look something related up and thought it was a very good resource to share here for anyone who is either self-teaching or who is still really early in their Japanese adventure.

Spoiler: show
Like the video says, you can think of the くれる class of verbs as "giving downwards" / "motion towards the center" (where you are at the lowest / the centermost point), whereas the あげる class is the opposite, "giving upwards" / "motion away from the center".

What the video omits, is keigo. Good ol' Japanese politeness morphs. And a quick note: we have three parties in these exchanges, not just two. They are 1) the giver, 2) the recipient, and finally 3) the speaker. So, with that said:

● くれる has 下さる (くださる), which is used when the giver is socially superior to the speaker and found outside the speaker's in-group.

● あげる has both 差し上げる (さしあげる) and やる. The first, 差し上げる, is used when the recipient is socially superior to the speaker and outside the speaker's in-group. The second, やる, is used when the recipient is an animal, plant, or is otherwise beneath the speaker enough to merit the downgrade from あげる to やる.

● 貰う (もらう) has 頂く (いただく), which is used when the giver is socially superior to both the recipient and the speaker.

If all of this seems overwhelming, then I would suggest just focusing on くれる, あげる, and もらう for now. Exposure to Japanese will breed familiarity with (at the very least) くださる and いただく, and you can springboard from there into the greater world of KEIGO!
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