08-04-2007, 04:05 PM | #1 | |
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Islamic marriage (News).
Couldn't bear to give this topic a proper title, too depressing. Just watch out folks.
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08-04-2007, 07:09 PM | #2 |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
That is what living under a religous patriarchy will get you. It is sick, disgusting and barely recongizable as human.
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08-04-2007, 07:13 PM | #3 |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
That is so very depressing.
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08-04-2007, 07:31 PM | #4 |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
What Ahmed said ("I would rather die than see my wife suffer") would have been really honorable ... if he had meant it in the sense "my wife has been sullied" and not in the sense he clearly did mean of "I am the one who has been sullied."
I think what Um did was truly courageous; and frankly, given that she was (allegedly) given the option to abandon Ahmed and not have sex with strange men, I think her decision shows true selflessness. She sacrificed herself for the sake of her husband, rather than abandoning him. (I say "allegedly" because duh they would have raped her anyway. In fact, I'm amazed that they let her go afterwards and really did release Ahmed.) When a culture encourages men to despise women who are that selfless, you know something is wrong.
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08-04-2007, 08:30 PM | #5 | |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
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08-04-2007, 11:33 PM | #6 |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
I'm too desensitized to work up even a small amount of outrage or sadness. This is just normal human behavior, don't worry about it.
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08-05-2007, 12:03 AM | #7 | |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
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I'm not accusing you of playing favorites, but I feel compelled to say (to anyone who writes what you wrote), "Let's play fair, huh?" If you want to insinuate that most Muslims practice what is verbatim in the Qu'ran, that's your prerogative, but it's my prerogative to turn around and tell you, "For all your reading of the Qu'ran, you haven't done much living amongst Muslims, have you? :x If you seriously think most Muslims are this pigheaded, then you must surely believe that Jews still sell off their raped daughters for 50 silver bits." For every one Ahmed, there are a hundred other dudes who would have gladly taken their wife back home. The problem is that those husbands, role models that they are, make for boring news coverage. It's only assholes like Ahmed who make it into the American headlines. Let's not make the dangerous leap from "one Muslim done bad" to "all Muslims do bad," 'kay? Anyway, I'm probably just tired ... it's 1am, and you know as well as I do that I do think world organized-religion is one of the most dangerous, subversive, and hurtful things on the planet. (clarification: not including "way to live" religions like Buddhism nor the "way to live" aspects of such organized religions as Christianity, which has some pretty great moral guidelines to its name. I consider Buddhist teachings to be more of a philosophy, anyway, ... and the strictly religious aspects [e.g. the Mahayana "great wagon" which ferries souls to the afterlife] as being pretty useless and hokey)
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08-05-2007, 12:44 AM | #8 | |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
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08-05-2007, 01:24 AM | #9 |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
Well, I disagree. I believe that at a fundamental level, people are people, and all people are capable of the most cruel and barbarous acts, even if they feel that they aren't and deny it fervently. Even the most kind and civilized has an entire horde of animal instincts boiling and bubbling under the surface, just waiting to come out. All they need is the right excuse, and there you have it.
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08-05-2007, 10:00 AM | #10 |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
Misogyny is common in EVERY FRICKING culture, even in ours (although I'm not as afraid of being beaten to death or raped and then shamed for being a victim, oh wait, yes I am afraid of being shamed for having been raped, but at least I don't have to fear divorce). Joss Weldon, of Buffy fame, has a VERY good rant about it. http://whedonesque.com/comments/13271#more
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08-05-2007, 12:35 PM | #11 | |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
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Any way, I think all women should be strong and confident, like "The Boss" from Metal Gear Solid 3. Now there was a fine example of a women. Beautiful, strong, tough-as-nails, confident, and could easily kick the ass of any man who gave her crap. But she also had a caring side as well. |
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08-05-2007, 01:47 PM | #12 |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
Namek- In my experience BOTH men and women are manipulative and conniving, I just think that women are that way toward men and men are that way toward women, so men don't see how men are, but they see women being manipulative. Almost every man I've ever met as well as almost ever woman I've ever met has been manipulative and/or passive aggressive.
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08-05-2007, 02:09 PM | #13 |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
Yeah, all these ideas on what makes one sex different to another is not my cup of tea.
Besides a few based on the ideas of attraction. Anyway, yeah. This sucks. Very sad read. |
08-05-2007, 02:45 PM | #14 | |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_w_bush http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_M ... 1evi%C4%87 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_sharon And of course, if we're willing to go back beyond the last 20 years and allow all 20th century entrants, then duh-hur, here comes Public Enemy #1 who has been responsible for more deaths than Osama bin Laden, Yassir Arafat, and Saddam Hussein combined ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitl ... us_beliefs The fact is, during the Clinton years, I heard more news stories on Serbian genocide of Bosnians than I ever did on Palestinian terrorism against Israel. And even now during the Bush years, I'd say for every one "Muslim extremist" news story we hear there's one other "Iraqi nightmare" story. For instance, yesterday morning around 8am, I turned on the television while eating my cheese and toast sandwich and heard that some white fucker in the US Army raped and murdered an Iraqi woman and her family and was (thank God) being charged for the crimes in a court martial hearing. Thing is ... he's not the first, nor will he be the last. $10 says he's a self-proclaimed Christian.
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08-05-2007, 02:59 PM | #15 | |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
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08-05-2007, 03:39 PM | #16 | |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
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EDIT: Just saw KV's reply. I didn't bother to click on the link and don't have the time to read anything right now. All I'll say is that (just like with any political movement) you've got your racist, xenophobic anti-Zionists and you've got your calm, cool-headed ones like myself. I for one do believe the Holocaust happened but I also believe that, much like a lawsuit where a family sues a corporation for all its worth because of the loss of their father & husband, many surviving (Zionist) Jews sued the world for an "Israeli state" and wrongfully seized land from the Palestinians. Are all Jews Zionist? Absolutely not. Is the Holocaust real? I'm convinced it is. Do I have ethically Jewish friends? Tons, some of them my best friends. Do I have religiously Jewish friends? A few, in fact, though not too many. (I haven't met many practicing Jews, truth be told.) Do I believe that Zionist Jews took advantage of the situation in 1945 to finally steal back Jerusalem and the lands around it? Yeah, yeah I do. :\ Do I believe they're religious zealots? Yeah, yeah I do. :\ Do I believe religious zealots are the cause for so much suffering on this planet? Yeah, yeah I do. So how could I not be against Zionism, a force which declares "we have the God-given right to kick millions of people out of their homes"? I cannot.
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08-05-2007, 03:48 PM | #17 |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
You're a Holocaust denier dami?
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08-05-2007, 04:33 PM | #18 |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
Meh. I know what you're saying, but for me, it's proof enough that eyewitness reports (made prior to and during the war, NOT at Nuremberg!) of Hitler's noted antisemitism and the fact that 6 million Jews went missing that the Holocaust was very, very real.
I've actually been reading this collection of essays, short stories, and poems that deal with medical ethics, and one of the essays is about Hitler's state program of euthanasia for children with disabilities. It began in 1933 as a program to help parents with "trouble children" (e.g. severe cerebral palsy resulting in a vegetative state of existence for the child) have legal avenues to seek euthanasia. Technically, euthanasia remained illegal during the Weimar era, but the Chancellor himself made it clear that these cases were to be reported to him directly (not higher, and not lower) and that he would pardon German parents from any accusations of wrong-doing that might be filed against them. By 1941, the year Hitler officially terminated the program, it had evolved into something horrible: parents who brought their children in for treatment were told by doctors, "Your child needs to be hospitalized for radical surgery, it is the only way to save him" and were then being injected (2-3 months later) fatal doses of sedatives. These reports began to leak out during the war when outraged parents realized what had happened and when they noticed that the same fate was falling to half-Jewish half-German "Aryan halfbreeds." It of course came to light at Nuremberg four years later during the hearings. Again, one is free to disbelieve the various doctors, co-patients, nurses, and parents who have testified that this program is real; one is free to believe that the many written documents we have confirming this program's existence have been forged; and one is free to believe that any children who did die died of natural causes or as a consequence of the extreme therapies they were subjugated to. However, if one believes what I've just written, then I think he ought to acknowledge that the Holocaust proper is not significantly different -- simply that the scope changes from several thousand to several million and that the target changes from disabled children to non-Aryans. Not attacking you, dami. I know a lot of "Holocaust agnostics" and I acknowledge that it's light years away from being a "Holocaust atheist." In fact, given how sensationalized that time period in history has been, it is difficult for us (the children of future generations) to really know what to make of it all. All I'm saying is, for my part, I believe that millions of human lives were terminated prematurely by the Nazi regime. Motives and methods be damned, the fact (as I see it) is that it happened, and the millions of Jewish children who lost beloved parents and grandparents are proof enough for me. "Massive conspiracy" theories really hold very little water in my book anyway, since the larger the conspiratory group gets (from one person, to a few people, to a few thousand, to an entire racial group), the less able that conspiratory group is able to keep their "facts" straight with each other's testimonies. The fact that the Holocaust testimonies from so many different survivors of WW2 -- Jewish and non-Jewish alike -- all match up is one of the strongest arguments there is for the Holocaust's veracity. While there are mixed opinions on the nature of (say) poison gas chambers or acidic showers, most testimonies seem to concur that there were "death camps" where slave labor was used to further the war effort and that slaves who were no longer deemed capable of earning their keep were eliminated.
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08-05-2007, 10:48 PM | #19 |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
You know, I was going to post something long and thoughtful in this thread, but then I saw shit like George W. Bush's policies being equated with Islamic extremism and the phrase "Holocaust agnostic" and decided that all sane discourse had decided to flee this thread faster than a refugee out of Darfur.
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08-05-2007, 11:45 PM | #20 |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
Dude, he's the West's equivalent of Khomeini.
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08-05-2007, 11:56 PM | #21 | |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
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Yeah, this is one of those times. Unless you can somehow logically equate Bush's (misguided or not) idea to bring democracy to the Middle East with the radical Islamic ideal that all infidels should convert or be destroyed, I am not particularly interested in engaging in a conversation on a subject where several of you very clearly have your heads up your asses.
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08-06-2007, 04:09 AM | #22 | |
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
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08-06-2007, 08:18 PM | #23 | |||||||||||||||||||
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Re: Islamic marriage (News).
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I'm seriously beginning to wonder if you actually believe any of the stuff you post in political debates, or whether you're performing a very elaborate troll that would make the anonymous of /b/ proud. Nice job on posting a critique of the Holocaust by an anti-Semite, by the way. I wonder if your next link will be Fred Phelps' unbiased views regarding gays. Let's begin, shall we? Quote:
More importantly, what Steele declines to mention is that most historians agree that roughly between 5 million and 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust: 6 million is hardly a "holy number" (though apparently the estimate of the guy managing the logistics of the whole shebang apparently is a puppet of world Jewry, or something). So even if you go to the very low-end estimate of 800k-900k Jews killed, that's fairly close to the commonly accepted range amongst historians. Quote:
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Before I continue, I would like to ask if you honestly believe this bullshit damicatz. In the space of a couple pages or so I've read at least half a dozen unsubstantiated claims of the insidious hand of world Jewry, a severe misrepresentation of historical facts, and Steele conveniently "forgetting" to mention most of his scholars have expressed anti-Semitic views, among other things. It took me roughly 20 minutes of Google/Wikipedia surfing to do this. Has the phrase "grain of salt" ever crossed your mind at any point while reading this? Now then. There were about 8 to 10 million Jews in the territories controlled by the Nazis before the Holocaust. 2-4 million is still a large number of people if you subtract 6 million from that initial total, but the assertion that "there are a lot of Holocaust survivors, ergo it never happened" is a complete and utter logical fallacy. Quote:
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Oh, and we remember the victims of the Holocaust in particular because they were, you know, victims of a state-sponsored campaign of extermination. Quote:
Another simple answer is that ideology often trumps reason: from a purely practical perspective, there's no reason for denying gay couples the right to marry, yet there are groups fighting tooth and nail to ensure it doesn't happen. Quote:
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You know what, that's enough for me for one sitting. I might tackle the rest of this load of massive steaming horseshit later.
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