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Old 01-31-2017, 12:09 AM   #3451
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I'm sure you already know, but for those unaware, it can't be McCain and Co because the impeachment proceedings must start in Congress. Right now you have something like 25 Republicans in Congress openly against Trump, and the rest are silent or supportive. They would need a healthy handful more to even get started. Until such a time that the House has just enough to motion for impeachment proceedings to begin, McCain and Co are just going to have to twiddle their thumbs.

We might be waiting until January 2019 before anything happens, and that's assuming the Dems take control. For now though, I'm too worried that every day that goes by is more and more irreparable damage done to our country and how the rest of the world views us.
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:21 AM   #3452
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Given the House...I don't think most Republicans care. It's going to be immensely difficult to actually get him impeached with our current house.
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:27 AM   #3453
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We might be waiting until January 2019 before anything happens
He's done more in two weeks than W. Bush ever did in a single one of his eight years to hurt the reputation of America in the eyes of the world or to hurt his own reputation in the eyes of Americans. I sorely, severely doubt we're going to be waiting two years for change on this one. The country simply won't hold. There will be massive (million citizen plus) riots in cities like New York and Chicago if the anti-ethnicism continues at this rate. The man saying "grab 'er by the pussy" three months prior managed to transform a Facebook invite into a 500,000-woman march on Washington one day after his inauguration. I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that "fuck permanent residents," if it either stays put or it escalates further, is going to produce civil riots the likes of which this nation has not seen or known since the War of Independence. Misogyny is disgusting, but de facto deportation of lawful residents illegally ruins lives. They are on different levels of how badly they call Americans to action.
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:37 AM   #3454
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Impeachment will probably happen, in fairness, if it really looks like not trying to will cost Reps and Senators their job. If his presidency causes massive civil unrest. But as of right now, I don't think anything will happen. Plus, depending on your demographic, it could potentially be political suicide; Trump will take an impeachment as ample opportunity to make himself a martyr. Someone like McCain could probably do it, but if your demographic is white lower-middle class people, you're not going to want to touch impeachment.
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:52 AM   #3455
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It doesn't matter if 100% of Democrats come out against Trump if at least 50% of Republican voters aren't supporting impeachment. Because until that happens, GOP Senators/Congresspeople have no political reason to support impeachment.
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:08 AM   #3456
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Can you explain for us why you so strongly believe that the Republican congressmen are all so in Trump's pocket as to make mutiny unthinkable?
Because, bluntly, it's Miracle of the House of Brandenburg daydreaming for the American left: we're paying the price for creating an environment that allowed Donald Trump to ascend to the leadership of the free world, and people desperately want to believe that there's One Amazing Trick (doctors hate it!) that will spare us from his ineptitude rather than bear the thought that the next few years will be a political slog to make sure that he doesn't destroy our institutions out of ignorance, laziness, or pique.

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I'm sitting over here along with Jeri wondering what's taking McCain & Co. so fucking long to get the impeachment ball rolling. You seem to be pretty confident that the entire Republican Party sees Trump as "their guy," but surely you agree that they would rather have a Paul Ryan in office than Donald Trump.
It's no secret that the Republican party has no love for Trump: when your savior is Ted Cruz and his extremely punchable face you know that things have gotten desperate. That doesn't change the fact that Republican primary voters and 63 million general election voters looked at Donald Trump and inexplicably said "yes, this is the man who will lead us to greatness:" any legislator who was in office before Trump stumbled along and who wishes to remain so after he leaves his skidmarks behind will be taking this into consideration.

Plus, nobody wants to take their full control of two branches of the government and piss it away on infighting (much less a damaging impeachment fight) during the honeymoon period where they have relatively wide latitude to push their agenda.

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I can buy the argument that Trump & Co. have "bought them out" for a select number of Republicans. But even Trump and his cronies are not so wealthy as to buy out literally every Republican congressman. On the contrary, Trump's pockets are so shallow (compared with titans of industry) as to make it easy for a Republican-aligned industrialist to step in and buy his own counter votes to oust Trump from office. To say nothing of Democrat-aligned titans who could easily buy Republican votes. (Who says you have to stay put on your side of the aisle?)
Money alone isn't everything: Trump stomped Jeb!'s balls down his throat, and he was the Republican frontrunner by a good green country mile in terms of funding. As noted above, Trump doesn't need money while he has the implicit threat of the voters behind him: no Republican can say with certainty how much of their constituents' support is tied up with Trump's rise, and so they are going to tiptoe through tulips for the foreseeable future.

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"Nobody wants to be the one who has to justify impeaching a president who hasn't even reached the end of week two," you say, but I ask in all sincerity: why not? What egotistical politician wouldn't want to go down in the history books as the one who led the charge against America's greatest tyrant since King George? Who wouldn't want all of the hero-worship that would come from branding himself as "the one man of integrity who set party politics aside and fought for what was right, even at the risk of his own career"? I feel like ousting Trump from office is a fucking soft ball right now for any of these egotistical pricks on Capitol Hill. So why aren't they budging!?
What exactly has Paul Ryan done in the last couple months to convince you that he can be classified as a vertebrate? Why would Democrats even breathe the word when it would be from a position of serious weakness and interpreted, at minimum, as extreme sour grapes?

Additionally, what makes you think that there is currently a massive overwhelming consensus in this country that Donald Trump is the assbaby of the Antichrist and Hitler? You live in a state that went 57% for Trump, for fuck's sake: drive out to an old factory town in Indiana and see if anybody there gives a shit that foreigners they'll never meet are being inconvenienced when the local economy's biggest driver is bathtub meth. Not every Trump voter is a fanatic: these are people who can be brought around, but they are going to give him the benefit of the doubt and will be waiting for some time to see if he succeeds or fails.
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Old 01-31-2017, 04:04 AM   #3457
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Worth pointing out that Trump's disapproval is "only" at 51 percent. Albeit he hit the record for hitting majority disapproval fastest, so.
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Old 01-31-2017, 07:08 AM   #3458
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Man I sure do love being treated as a second class citizen.
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Old 01-31-2017, 07:13 AM   #3459
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It's a little shocking to me that Trump was able to sit down and do things within basically hours of assuming the presidency. Even barring the fact that Trump himself should have known it was a bad idea, was there really nobody in the entire government infrastructure who had the presence of mind to establish a "welcoming committee" to educate Trump on both his powers and his responsibilities as President?

I lost a lot of faith in the legislative branch over the past 8 years, and in the course of just a few weeks I've lost a lot of faith in the executive branch, too. This is a mind-boggling failure at every stage of the game.

And let's not even talk about the way that Trump has stopped caring about optics entirely over the course of the last couple months. Back during the campaign, Trump was very careful about what he said and how. What the fuck is this bullshit now? Not only a Muslim travel ban, not only a Muslim travel ban passed in the first two weeks of being in office, NOT ONLY a Muslim travel ban that was written up in 15 minutes, but a Muslim travel ban that doesn't even ban Muslims from dangerous countries from traveling (Saudi Arabia: Not on the list).

We probably won't see impeachment, but what we will need to see is:

1. Congress doing its job and passing laws
2. SCOTUS limiting the powers of the President

The Obama administration defined a presidency that does not work closely with Congress. Trump's actions are a regrettable consequence of this.

As long as Congress does not act, Trump will not need to work with them and will feel justified in signing powerful EOs.

As long as the SCOTUS does not act, Trump will continue to be able to sign powerful EOs if Congress does not give him what he wants.

Also we need Bannon gone and we need Congress to actually pay attention to who is allowed on the cabinet or in any council.

Failure of checks and balances. God fucking damn.
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Old 01-31-2017, 07:15 AM   #3460
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WaPo says you are still a first class citizen, Jeri, don't worry.

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The White House is pledging to keep the Obama administration protections extended to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender workers, a statement said, apparently responding to reports that the orders would be reversed.

“President Trump continues to be respectful and supportive of L.G.B.T.Q. rights, just as he was throughout the election,” the White House said in a statement early Tuesday. “The president is proud to have been the first ever G.O.P. nominee to mention the L.G.B.T.Q. community in his nomination acceptance speech, pledging then to protect the community from violence and oppression.”
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Old 01-31-2017, 07:20 AM   #3461
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In fairness, that is still only part of the rumored EO. It's important but I'd prefer we didn't take any little baby steps in that direction.
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Old 01-31-2017, 07:22 AM   #3462
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Mkay so I am legitimately driven to the point of "I will actually sit down at some point and write a letter to one of my Representatives" done with Trump's shit. Anyone particularly interested in just compiling a list of grievances with sources so I can ask this person to just read it out on the House floor or some shit idfk anything that might possibly give me the chance to collectively tell Congress to make their branch relevant again/grow a spine/what have you?
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Old 01-31-2017, 08:23 AM   #3463
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CBP detains a five year old US Citizen, Spicer defends it because he could have been a terrorist.
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Old 01-31-2017, 08:39 AM   #3464
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Since more people are killed by toddlers in the states, he actually poses more of a realistic threat than 'islamic extremists'.
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Old 01-31-2017, 08:54 AM   #3465
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I imagine that's at least mostly from people not properly storing their guns and then the toddler gets ahold of it while the safety's off and it's loaded for whatever bonkers reason and well you know how this goes. A five year old who was apparently accompanied by another family at an airport is not going to have those circumstances.
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Old 01-31-2017, 08:55 AM   #3466
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That was sarcasm mate.
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Old 01-31-2017, 09:03 AM   #3467
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IM going to be quite frank and say if I was accounting for sarcasm being a possibility with every post made here there would be some people I'd only take seriously about half the time they're being serious. I'd much rather miss sarcasm than realize "oh wait you were serious about that."
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Old 01-31-2017, 09:29 AM   #3468
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Worth pointing out that Trump's disapproval is "only" at 51 percent. Albeit he hit the record for hitting majority disapproval fastest, so.
The problem is that the disapproval can be anything from "I realized he's going to take my healthcare" to "he ain't killin' them damn sand coons fast enough", and contrary to many peoples' hopes and dreams going below 50% approval rating is not an executable offense for the presidency. It's a good indicator that Trump can't help but burn bridges though, which might end up limiting the practical damage he can actually do.
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Old 01-31-2017, 09:41 AM   #3469
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I mean yeah that was basically an add-on to what you said about the factory town in Indiana part. There's only barely a majority of people who think he's being a bad president, which probably means they're not close to one that think he's being a terrible president. Which doesn't really speak very well of the country as a whole, but.
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Old 01-31-2017, 09:47 AM   #3470
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IM going to be quite frank and say if I was accounting for sarcasm being a possibility with every post made here there would be some people I'd only take seriously about half the time they're being serious. I'd much rather miss sarcasm than realize "oh wait you were serious about that."
No it was pretty obvious sarcasm. First of all, that's not even Shuckle's own opinion or post. It was a comment somebody made on the article that was intended to be humorous (nobody actually believes toddlers are more dangerous than militant extremists, except maybe people who REALLY hate kids) that Shuckle posted here because well...it was funny. Everyone knows that murderous toddlers (probably) don't exist and that most, if not all deaths, are accidental. Chill mate, not everything Shuckle posts on the forum needs to be torn apart.
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Old 01-31-2017, 10:01 AM   #3471
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Also this is absurd - Jimmy Carter is derided as one of the worst presidents of the modern era. Why would he actively try to emulate Carter? What would that achieve? A moral highground? Yes, the implications of Obama using his powers to circumvent legislators is somewhat troubling, but it is both fully within his power to do so and can be stopped, overturned or legislated away. Not to mention, due to his vast Republican opposition, Obama's orders were relatively tame.
I don't think there's anymore to discuss here, since I clearly won't change your mind. All I can offer is that Congress did indeed stop, overturn and legislate away those executive orders.

As I see it, a martyrdom would have been a better legacy to look back on, and it probably wouldn't have lead to Donald Trump.
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:45 PM   #3472
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DeVos got through.
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:14 PM   #3473
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:57 PM   #3474
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Old 01-31-2017, 02:39 PM   #3475
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So, can we get some legitimate discussion on this quote from Steven Bannon, please?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...a63_story.html

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"What we are witnessing now is the birth of a new political order, and the more frantic a handful of media elites become, the more powerful that new political order becomes itself.”
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