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Old 12-23-2013, 01:15 AM   #1
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Log Horizon

Okay, okay.

Anime themed around a MMORPG. Not just any MMORPG, a JRPG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87
Nothing to see here, folks.
Wait, you're wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87
No, Doppel. I do believe I am right.
Okay, okay. Hear out the rest.

Log Horizon isn't a 'deep' show. I like to use the term 'critically significant'. Typically, what we seasoned veterans like to characterize as a good anime begins like baking a cake, layering idea upon idea, concept over concept...stuff like themes, symbolism and parable form the foundation of plot, characters and setting.

You won't get any of that inner layer in Log Horizon, but for a cake that's basically a monolayer, it's sure got some tasty frosting.

The basic plot: there's this old MMORPG called "Elder Tale" that this college guy, Shiroe, is pretty fond of. He's made some friends and it's had an impact on his life - given the time he's invested in it, that wouldn't be an understatement. Elder Tale recieves a new update and Shiroe and a number of his friends find themselves in what appears to be the game world. Yes, they're trapped in the game!

Or so it seems. There's a lot more to this story than meets the eye, but the characters have a lot to do before they're in a position to investigate those secrets.

And that, perhaps, is both LH's biggest strength and its weakness. Where the story is now, it's insanely addicting and interesting, but how it got there isn't the ideal of a cohesive whole. It's tough to summarize LH's plot in a lump because it doesn't fall into a neat easily summarized pattern like the "hero's journey" or similar story archetypes. Up to Episode 12, where I am, the series has basically had three sub-plots:

-it's Sword Art Online with respawn!
-dude, where's my guild?
-PEOPLE OF THE LAND ARE PEOPLE!

While all these events are neatly shaded under the umbrella of "we're in a video game?" the focus and characters involved are vastly different. Naotsugu and Akatsuki, Shiroe's side-kicks, feature heavily in the first two parts but are more accessory in the third. Shiroe promotes himself from guy in the background to political nucleus. I wouldn't even call these side-stories either...more like chapters in a book without a permeating idea to bind everything together. And I feel like that gets in the way for people trying to start out with it.

Regardless, I've had a lot more fun with the Fall 2013 anime season than I've had in a while, since I've picked up and followed multiple seasons to their ultimate fruition. Log Horizon was the first and it hasn't tapered off yet. It's worth looking into if you like fantasy, politics, and characters who may seem a bit closer to home than you'd expect.
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:01 PM   #2
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Log Horizon - 13

This anime just keeps on rolling! Where are all the fans?!
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Old 12-29-2013, 10:30 AM   #3
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I'm getting around to watching episode 13 in a bit, but here's some thoughts about Episode 12.

Spoiler: show
I'm really glad levels don't mean a thing in this game. We can all focus on how the teamwork in Team Newbie develops! I still don't like the mage though, that attitude of his only gets in the way. Good thing the bard's of help, it's kinda rare to see a job class like that being put to use so well in an MMO...and I'm not sure those even existed in SAO.

For some reason I'm still convinced that the purple Lady among the People of the Land is a player. Just...a gut feeling.
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:03 PM   #4
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Levels do mean something, as you'll find out in the next episode. The adventurers on the whole are more powerful than the People of the Land.

What amuses me too is that it's becoming more and more obvious Akatsuki is shipping herself with Shiroe, but 'tis indecent for a lord and his personal ninja, no?!
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Old 12-29-2013, 03:29 PM   #5
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Episode 13!

Spoiler: show
GODDAMMIT SHRINE MAIDEN GIRL SPEAK UP ALREADY! I bet Team Newbs would already be done with the dungeon if she'd just stop letting people walk all over her. She's got the Shiroe Memo too! Hopefully we won't have to watch her being walked over for much longer, I have a feeling she'd be a great player in any team if she just spoke up her mind properly.
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Old 12-29-2013, 04:55 PM   #6
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It's not just the fact that they're newbies but that they're also like eight years old. I don't think I was as smart as them in elementary school (but I was certainly better at games).

I learned something about the flashy sorcerer guy in their party too. Not telling what it is.
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:12 AM   #7
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I don't think Minori(?) & Co. are eight, more like....in their early teens. Not old/mature enough to understand everything that happens, but not too young to be unable to play a computer game.

That said, times have changed and people play video games at age three now, so...
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:02 AM   #8
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Apparently, [adventurer speculation]

Spoiler: show

permanent death is possible in Log Horizon. The immortality is a special ability granted to individuals with the Adventure class, so humans who lose it die as they would in the normal world.
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:30 AM   #9
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DOPPLE YOU REALLY SHOULD SPOILER-BOX THAT!
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:27 AM   #10
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Alright if you insist.

To be fair, whenever I say something like that, it's mostly speculation. I remember a twist like that in Yu-Gi-Oh! ZEXAL too where the main character has this invincible monster, but it turns out that invincibility is a monster effect that can be negated.
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:21 AM   #11
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If it's speculation, at least let me know it's speculation. When you just write "X is Y" with no other context I'll instantly take it as a fact about the show. T^T
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:47 AM   #12
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Well, here's something.

Earlier in the year, when Log Horizon was first airing, there were some huge sticky posts on 4chan that I participated in, and apparently the reason they got so huge was the author of Log Horizon (Mamare Touno) actually visited the board to get feedback and discuss the series. I didn't really appreciate that when it was happening and it's certainly something I'll look out for in the future. He's been popping in from time to time to talk with people.

He's also the writer of Maoyuu, so definitely feel a kindred spirit in this guy because the VN I'm writing has a similar, unconventional approach to the subject matter that he's taken to in both Log Horizon and Maoyuu. A pity Maoyuu got boring as fudge really quickly, moreso than a legit Economics lecture. X_x
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Old 01-01-2014, 12:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
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I didn't really appreciate that when it was happening and it's certainly something I'll look out for in the future. He's been popping in from time to time to talk with people.
Wait, isn't it a good thing that the author's in touch with the people he writes for? I know plenty of shows that would've ended a lot differently if the fanbase had gotten a say in it. *cough*OreImo*cough*
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Old 01-01-2014, 01:07 PM   #14
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I mean when it happened, I didn't really think it was the actual guy. I just assumed it was an imitator. But the dude called out the thread on his Twitter, so I'm forced to believe it and it was a major missed opportunity for me.

I'm not sure OreImo would have had a different ending if the fans had a say. The author had a hard-on for Kirino and was only shamed into an "it's our little secret!" ending with heavy implication because of his editor's censorship pressure. The fans were divided on which girl they liked, there wasn't a "de facto" best girl, just a default one, who won.

I think it's a good idea this guy is receptive to ideas, although it belies where he's trying to go with LH. For my story, I've already got the overall plot done, and am trying to fill in the details on how to get there (not to mention the hardest part, the character names). Perhaps he is similar.
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Old 01-01-2014, 01:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Wait, isn't it a good thing that the author's in touch with the people he writes for? I know plenty of shows that would've ended a lot differently if the fanbase had gotten a say in it. *cough*OreImo*cough*
There's a dilemma in the creation of fiction when it comes to an author reading comments from the fans.
Pro: the fans can steer an author clear from an unpopular development

Con: the fans may pollute the author's thinking with ideas inferior to those he would have come up with on his own
For example, consider the author who doesn't want to be predictable. In his efforts to avoid being predictable, he may read what people are speculating will happen and then declare to himself, "Well I'm definitely not going to write that then! " This can be problematic when the fans, in their sheer volume, cover all of the best possible developments and leave the author with slim, awkward pickings. In cases like these, it would have been best had the author never read the fan comments at all.

For another example, consider the artist who did not achieve great fame or critical acclaim during his life but who today is considered a genius for his unique vision. That sort of "unique vision" is generally lost the more one listens to the whims of the public: because the public, as a large body of different people, tends to have a rather homogenizing effect on an artist's writing. ("Can't write this or I'll piss Faction A off. Can't write this or I'll piss Faction B off.") The net result is that artists who listen to the public are often at risk of producing works that have homogenous appeal in the current day but which aren't particularly incredible.

Think of all of the stories you've ever read or seen where you felt that the first installment was the best and that the final installment was the worst. The Matrix films, maybe? Or how about the Indiana Jones movies? Perhaps popular television dramas like Lost or Dexter? Even popular cartoon series like Avatar: the Legend of Korra and My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic come to mind, with many people feeling that these series were best back when the writers cared less about trying to please people and were just writing from the heart what they felt was best. I think you should have no trouble identifying at least one franchise where you feel things went downhill as time went on and where you know for a fact that the creative team (whether one writer or many) were reading the fans' comments as they went along.

Like I say, it's a dilemma. It's not a clear-cut thing where I can say "input from the fans is always poisonous to the creative process and should be avoided at all costs." There are numerous instances where an author's being plugged into the fandom allowed him to create the masterpiece that he would've otherwise been unlikely to produce. But I'm just saying, since you seem to be unaware, that there is a very real risk of producing inferior art as an artist whenever you receive input from others.
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Old 01-01-2014, 01:56 PM   #16
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I wouldn't call it a dilemma, exactly. There's a pretty clear-cut criteria for when fans or the author should push one way or the other.

Sometimes authors of modest skill stumble onto premises beyond their abilities to harness the full effect thereof. Naruto, Fate/stay night, and Code Geass come to mind with brilliant premises and so-so execution. The fanfiction (Fate/Zero) essentially proves this point, and with stories of meh authors, refusing or not looking into fan input is definitely detrimental to those who have a vested interest in the series' progression. A more skilled author, or a collective agreement of what is valued in the series, are definitely superior to an un-skilled author trying to project an unclear vision.

Shingeki no Kyojin is a different example, the author has yielded some concessions like aborted the series' horrifically tragic ending, and not killed off the comic relief characters (Potato Girl) but is still largely headed in the same original direction.

In the case of this guy, Maoyuu definitely lost direction and quickly, but it's hard for fans to provide input for such a thing that demands technical expertise. I'm an economist, so I could probably rewrite Mayouu in a way that is more interested in lay people using the original as a template for NOT how to do it (although I'd have Maou cast breast reduction magic on herself ).

Log Horizon is more focused but the ultimate destiny of the story is in doubt, so I wouldn't be against the author seeking out some ideas of what to do after the current exploration is done. He seems to be going down the character development route with Akatsuki, which is helpful but is kind of a stall.
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Old 01-04-2014, 05:46 PM   #17
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Log Horizon - 13

I've watched the last part of this episode at least three times now. Rundelhaus is awesome and Isuzu is cute. I hope they get together!
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Old 01-05-2014, 01:46 AM   #18
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Episode 14 chock full of interesting stuff
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Old 01-05-2014, 02:01 AM   #19
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Yeah that was the one I watched.

I thought the discussion on magic class was kind of filler-ish, though. It was pretty self-explanatory and didn't need 5 minutes devoted to visual demonstration.
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Old 01-05-2014, 11:17 PM   #20
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Manmare opened up a GoogleDoc to allow Log Horizon fans from across the world for submitting their ideas to the project:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1W39...yZx5o/viewform

I submitted my own, the North American "Cowboy" subclass of Swashbuckler. Will continue to brainstorm ideas! It'll help me with my own VN!
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Old 01-06-2014, 04:18 PM   #21
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Manmare opened up a GoogleDoc to allow Log Horizon fans from across the world for submitting their ideas to the project:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1W39...yZx5o/viewform

I submitted my own, the North American "Cowboy" subclass of Swashbuckler. Will continue to brainstorm ideas! It'll help me with my own VN!
Just checking: this is something you appreciate and like?

Also, I'd actually love it if LH ever got to the point where the players start crossing continent barriers and meeting "foreign" players. How things are working out for American and European players, for example.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:03 PM   #22
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Just checking: this is something you appreciate and like?
Does this imply you don't like it when writers ask for input? I have a spectrum of opinions on that sort of thing, it isn't just a yes or no answer.
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:29 AM   #23
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Does this imply you don't like it when writers ask for input? I have a spectrum of opinions on that sort of thing, it isn't just a yes or no answer.
Oh, I just want to be sure I've got your opinion right. ^^;; Tone doesn't carry too well over the Net and I'm pretty bad at understanding tone even in face-to-face situations.

I'm fine with reader input as long as it doesn't go to flat-out plagiarism.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:18 PM   #24
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My general opinion is that if the author is smart, fan ideas will probably negatively influence his/her work. If the author's a moron, the fans are probably smarter and have a better idea of where to go.

In this case...the author's smart, but isn't asking too much, simply basic skeleton ideas for him to draw the flesh and muscle on. So it's definitely OK with me, I wholeheartedly endorse the outreach effort.
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Old 01-11-2014, 05:59 PM   #25
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last 4 minutes of ep 15 like wot
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