UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Debate

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-17-2014, 10:11 PM   #1
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
Shooting your Friend

If your friend asked you to kill them, would you? There's a lot of contextual modifiers, but I want to keep the topic pretty general in case someone has a "no, under no circumstances would I ever kill a friend" viewpoint.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 10:20 PM   #2
phoopes
Double Dragon
 
phoopes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,776
I don't think I could literally shoot my friend. Say if I were drafted to war and my fellow soldier was suffering through a clearly fatal injury on the battlefield, I don't think I would have the heart to shoot someone I knew and cared about. However, if it was just a "pulling the plug" kind of deal, I think I'd be able to do it. Knowing that I killed a person, even if they asked for it, would probably weigh heavily on my conscience for a long time but ultimately I think I would be able to respect the person's wishes.
__________________
phoopes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 10:40 PM   #3
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoopes View Post
I don't think I could literally shoot my friend. Say if I were drafted to war and my fellow soldier was suffering through a clearly fatal injury on the battlefield, I don't think I would have the heart to shoot someone I knew and cared about. However, if it was just a "pulling the plug" kind of deal, I think I'd be able to do it. Knowing that I killed a person, even if they asked for it, would probably weigh heavily on my conscience for a long time but ultimately I think I would be able to respect the person's wishes.
I don't understand how the battlefield example differs from the hospital bedside example. Aren't they both examples of euthanasia? Aren't they both examples of "pulling the plug?"

If it's a matter of consent, then I feel like you'd be even better off with the battlefield example (where consent is unmistakably given and the relief from suffering is immeasurable) than with the hospital example of a patient who is being treated, given painkillers, given sedatives, perhaps even in a coma, etc.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 10:48 PM   #4
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
I feel like I could handle the battlefield example better than bedside assisted suicide. On the battlefield, the guy is outright giving you consent at that very moment that he wants to be put out of his misery. If there's reason to think he's a goner anyway (like his entrails have utterly spilled out) you save him some excruciating pain by putting him down.

In the coma case, even if a person leaves a will, you have no idea what they're thinking if they're conscious somehow. That is in the same murky territory as abortion, where the target to be executed can't communicate with the executioner.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 10:59 PM   #5
phoopes
Double Dragon
 
phoopes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,776
Well like the battlefield example is a more graphic way to die, which is why I don't think I could do it. Like if called to serve I think I could shoot at people that I didn't know (ugh that sounds awful but it's true I think) but having to look at a mortally wounded person that I know and end their life via a gunshot would be more emotionally traumatizing than just pulling the plug at a hospital bedside for me personally.
__________________
phoopes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 11:13 PM   #6
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
If your friend asked you to kill them, would you? There's a lot of contextual modifiers, but I want to keep the topic pretty general in case someone has a "no, under no circumstances would I ever kill a friend" viewpoint.
This is a question that no one on this forum is likely well-equipped to answer. That stated, I feel like I would be able to in extreme situations where the choice is made easy for me (e.g. the example of the soldier-friend dying on the battlefield beside me, with no chance of survival, with the guarantee of his death lasting minutes to hours without my intervention, with no means by which to save him, etc.) but that I would otherwise find it difficult if not downright impossible to do.

Revisiting the battlefield example, I keep thinking of Forrest Gump:

Spoiler: show
Forrest did not relinquish Bubba to the Vietkong. He did not abandon him to the U.S. Air Force either. He picked Bubba up, threw him over his shoulders, and carried him out of the jungle as fast as his legs could carry him.

Say I was in Forrest's position. And say that there were no air raid. Say that the Vietkong were notorious for torturing American POWs. And say Bubba asked me to shoot him, to ensure that the Vietkong could not save Bubba's life only to torture it more. Would I grant Bubba's request? Would I disregard it and make to escape the forest with Bubba on my back? If I did shoot him and flee, would I be a coward? If I chose not to shoot him, tried to "do the right thing," and then ended up getting us both captured by the enemy, would I be a fool? You only have seconds to decide, a decision that will impact you for the rest of your life. What would I do? I don't know. I can see myself doing both things. And that's the thing: many men have done one or the other in their own lives. Both decisions -- to shoot and not to shoot -- have many heroes in fiction and in reality fall on their side of the fence.

Many have remarked on our society's difference from the generation depicted in the story Old Yeller. The generation depicted in that film were more than capable of euthanizing animals in suffering. Not just capable -- willing. Modern generations refuse to have a pet put down until it's blind, deaf, soiling the house, emaciated, and covered in tumors. Where old generations would shoot a dog with a broken leg, our generation takes the dog to a veterinary hospital to have its leg put in a cast or splint. People who can afford to are now seeking organ transplants for their beloved pets, where earlier generations would put a pet down, feeling you not only relieve the pet of its suffering but it's also the far more economical and sensible thing to do.

Nothing highlights this difference more for me between the Old Yeller generation (meaning the people in the story, not the generation who grew up watching the movie) and our generation than John Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men:

Spoiler: show
While a fictional character, and while perhaps a remarkable specimen even for his time and place, the fact that George is able to euthanize Lennie much as one would euthanize their pet dog says an awful lot for the older generations' capacity for euthanasia. People today struggle to put down a pet. How would they handle putting down a mentally handicapped best friend?
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 12:29 PM   #7
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
Yup.
Mercutio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 12:34 PM   #8
Zelphon
Caffeinated
 
Zelphon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Bed
Posts: 2,788
Send a message via Skype™ to Zelphon
My negative opinion towards suicide and those that commit it is probably at least somewhat known, so the answer really would be a no (although I may try knock some sense into them)

Although the example of the battle field with entrails sprawled all over the place would be a bit of an exception, if a person is gonna die they may as well die humanely and I wouldn't mind making sure said kind of death was the one that occurred.
__________________
Life, but a series of paths and flows
Down many one can go
May yours run smoothly and be soft to your feet

Zelphon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 02:19 PM   #9
Slash
Silver LO
 
Slash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tokyo Underground Sewage Facility
Posts: 6,760
Send a message via Yahoo to Slash Send a message via Skype™ to Slash
I couldn't do it. I'm not strongly opposed to it, but I'm not a killer, even a mercy killer. If the person was in severe agony, or whatever, I would not stop someone else from doing it
__________________
--- ---
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneezey12 View Post
KAIRNE I WILL RIP OFF YOUR SCROTUM AND FEED IT TO YOU THROUGH A FUCKING SWIRLY STRAW.

Slash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 09:42 PM   #10
Rangeet
Foot, meet mouth.
 
Rangeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 4,362
Send a message via MSN to Rangeet Send a message via Skype™ to Rangeet
I like to think I could do it. Both in the battlefield and in the euthanasia case.
__________________
Spoiler: show
Rangeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 10:05 PM   #11
Heather
Naga's Voice
 
Heather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: somewhere gay idk
Posts: 3,279
The word suicide brings up stuff I'd rather not think about. Quite frankly, I could not bring myself to assist in it.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTheFishGuy View Post
Quoth the Honchkrow (nevermore!).
Fizzy Member Post: Catherine Park
Heather is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Debate


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:50 AM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.