Pokémon Sun and Moon General Discussion [Spoiler Warning]

[Heather]

Let's not forget that by far the most common offtype for any Water type is Ice, and EVERY person usually finds a Water type they like at some point because you always need a Surfer to complete the story. Add that you can now tack Ice Beam onto anything at all, and you see why Grass/Flying just doesn't make the cut so much these days.

[Beautiful Savage]

But it's so gosh dang cute! Honestly for me, it's tough to pick a starter this early on because I like to see the final evolutions before I choose. That being said, Rowlett is currently the one for me. It'd be especially nice if it's fast and gets U-Turn. That would help with it's terrible typing.

[Heather]

I mean don't get me wrong I used a Pelipper for a long time in my latest AS nuzlocke but that was because natural protect access and it was my only surf candidate besides a modest Zigzagoon to make a Linoone when that time rolled around. I eventually replaced it with Seaking because that also gets Dive and natural Waterfall. The problem with Rowlet is that it has that flaw from the get go. Charmander was fine because if you didn't have a way to safety from Rock moves by the Charizard stage you did something WAY wrong, so it's not a deal breaker. A Water flying starter that is that way from the get go? Instant deal breaker for Water that region.

[Talon87]

How I feel about Rowlet.

[phoopes]

Obviously I feel different about competitive battling, but if something is neato burrito aesthetically, I will not hesitate to use it in-game. So yeah as of right now Rowlet, unless they balls it up like they did with Fennekin.

[gmoyes]

One of the gaming news channels I follow have been of course been covering the Sun and Moon reveals, but it's awesome that they got Serebii Joe to join a discussion.

One thing I like about what has been shown is that the route aren't locked to a grid like previous games. The running seems much more free and the routes turn at uneven angles and even has more natural changes in elevation. This game looks great and I can't wait to learn more.

One thing that I saw pointed out is that from what has been shown is that we haven't seen any tall grass. Sure, these shots are all presumably from the very start of the game, but even in the island shot you can't really see any. Maybe they're only in forests and caves letting people travel the routes without hassle? Wow I think I called it how the route would be wide open to allow easy travel. Of course, this is based off the first area and presumably the other islands of Hawaii will be different.

[Talon87]

Went on a fanart dive. Rowlet bias is obvious but there's stuff here for everyone to enjoy. A lot of these are too large for a forum post, so as always click pictures you're interested in for the full-size versions.

Our Alola starters, official Ken Sugimori art. (Full-size versions have invisible backgrounds; great for personal use!) And now, onto the fanart!

Spoiler: show

This was one of the very first fanart pieces to go up after the reveal. Surely you've seen it by now. You're also probably aware, but just in case you're not and the joke's been lost on you -- this is a Pokémon parody of the infamous "how to draw an owl" meme. The Rowlet version is provided to us courtesy of ｋｉｏｎ－ｋｕｎ (9445737).



This adorable drawing of Rowlet comes to us from Pixiv user ぷっと (5706880).



These next two are from Pixiv user まにょん (456542).



Here we have some nice vector art by Pixiv user 柠檬亚历山大 (7526007). He's made similar artwork for earlier Pokémon as well. I suggest checking out his gallery if you'd like to see more.



火種 (4270641) shares with us his vision of the starters' middle stages. These look like they could be the real deal! And I am lovin' that Rowlet evo! Please let this man determine the path Rowlet's evolutionary line will take! NO MORE BLAZIKEN/DELPHOX DISAPPOINTMENTS!



時媛かせき (14351134) offers his own take on what the starters' final forms could be. A lot of fans have been looking for any sign of discernible themes with these three new starters, themes that would link them together the way that recent generations' starters have been. With Popplio being such an obvious contender for circus clown, a lot of people look at Litten and make the short little hop over to "tiger who jumps through a ring of fire." That leaves Rowlet, who doesn't seem to fit ... until you consider his cute little bowtie. One of my friends has speculated that Rowlet might end up being the magician of the group, but 時媛かせき takes note of Rowlet's razor-sharp quills and wonders, "Might he not be a knife thrower instead?" Good guess! :o We'll just have to wait and see, now won't we? While I'm none too crazy about his Rowlet final evo (Blaziken ... orz), and I'm not really keen on his Popplio final evo drawing either, I think that his Litten final evo looks badass and hugely on point. I will be surprised if Litten's final evo does not look an awful lot like what 時媛かせき has guessed it will.



A lot of Pixiv users have been comparing Rowlet with Love Live character Minami Kotori. Part of it is the shared color pallet, part of it probably has to do with Kotori's name. (Kotori literally means "little bird.") Regardless, there's been a lot of Pokémon-Love Live crossover fanart between these two over the past 48 hours. This just happens to be one of the ones I saved. (This artist, Pixiv user ヒノッチ (17409388) was kind enough to provide a non-Kotori-fied version of his picture here.)



Pixiv user daipY (2314099) shares this picture with us. An adorable fanart of the three Alola starters interacting with one another.

[deoxys]

@ Talon

SAME. God I love this owl so much.



Anyway guys - found this interesting thing. Someone on reddit noticed the background of the trailer shows "Solgaleo's" signature move.

https://gfycat.com/AdmiredPalatableIndri

I wouldn't be shocked if the name of the attack is "Supernova" honestly.

[Heather]

OH GOD NOT LONG CUTSCENE ATTACK

But it basically appears to be Solarbeam on speed. Just call it Dynamite with a laser beam.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by deoxys

Anyway guys - found this interesting thing. Someone on reddit noticed the background of the trailer shows "Solgaleo's" signature move.

https://gfycat.com/AdmiredPalatableIndri

I wouldn't be shocked if the name of the attack is "Supernova" honestly.

I feel like "Solar Flare" would be more likely.

I like the bat's signature move more, personally, but I am glad to see the continued return to signature moves. While Solgaleo's looks like it could be easily transplanted to other Pokémon with mouths, the intricate nature of Luna'ala's attack animation makes it seem like his/her attack has to remain exclusive.

......................................... I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING.

Holy wow, none of us have been discussing the fact that THE POKÉMON'S BODIES DO UNIQUE THINGS WITH THE ATTACKS NOW. At least Luna'ala's body does. The way its wings knot and twist and fan back out, it's very unique. While Generation 6's attack animations were the very best we've ever had, they still suffered from the Colosseum problem of "beautiful gifs that are sort of ... plopped down in front of a Poke Man and the player is expected to fill in the rest of the gaps with his imagination." But when Luna'ala fires off his/her attack, it seems like his/her body is an intrinsic part of the attack, like ... the attack couldn't work if you didn't have the surface area Luna'ala generates with his/her massive wings. It isn't just "an attack that is unique because Game Freak coded it to be so," it's "an attack that is unique because I can visibly witness that no other Pokémon in the world can do with its body quite what Luna'ala can."

Makes me wonder if we're going to see more custom animations like this in the future. It seems a monumental task to take all of XYORAS and then to tack onto it "700+ unique attack animations multiplied by 800+ unique creatures for a total of 560,000+ unique attack+creature animations." A lot of data to house, a lot of data to code. Not sure if it's even remotely feasible. But if it is feasible, holy balls we're in for a treat. :o And even if we're not getting 560,000+ unique animations , at the very least I have to wonder if Game Freak went back and re-animated Psystrike and other signature moves so that when the signature Pokémon uses them the animation more visibly involves their body doing something cinematic and unique. Like, here's the XYORAS version of Psystrike. The animation of the attack itself is easily copy-pastable to any other Pokémon in the game, while the animation of Mewtwo's body is rather short and simple. We're on the same page of thought with his arm stretching out and CARD CRUSHER'ing, but I feel like they could do something a bit more cinematic with it, akin to Solgaleo's and Luna'ala's attacks.

560,000+ unique animations may be unreasonable, but what if we pare that number down to only 1 move per legendary times 20 or so for the number of legendaries who still know a move exclusive only to them? That's far more manageable. Mewtwo with Psystrike, Lugia with Aeroblast, Ho-oh with Sacred Fire oh shit Entei learned it in Gen 6. Well, maybe legendaries can share. The point is, so long as the move is still perceived as a "signature move," then maybe each legendary can have this one really epic animation to go along with it. It would be a lot more manageable for the team to animate / code. It would also provide fans with a subconscious reason to be impressed by legendaries over ordinary Pokémon. "Man, did you see that Moonbeam attack? So epic! "

[deoxys]

I think you could be onto something.

I have this theory that the reason Gen 6 had such few new Pokemon is because a. The introduction of megas count as "unique" new Pokemon too, to some degree, but b. Because they had to make and animate 700+ Pokemon in Maya.

Which leads me to believe that, since Maya is being used in Gen 7, here is what will happen: All Gen 6 models will be imported to Gen 7, which will leave them time to make even more new Pokemon to create and animate, and then to top that off, they will be able to go back through Gen 6 sprites and add new animations.

It makes sense when you consider it. "Why did we only get 70 new Pokemon in Gen 6 Gamfreak!?" "Because we spent so much time 3D modeling and animating all of the currently existing ones!" Well, now they don't really need to do that, which means they can just simply import all of them and go back through to add uniqueness to the animations, and variations to attacks - and I'd wager it also means we will have at least 100 new Pokemon this gen (not counting new mega evolutions).

[Talon87]

Looking into more Alola stuff, I've learned that Kukui and Hala, the names of two SM characters, are both named after plants native to Hawaii.

• Kukui is named after the state tree of Hawaii. Ancient Hawaiians used it for many purposes:
  

  In ancient Hawaiʻi, kukui nuts were burned to provide light. The nuts were strung in a row on a palm leaf midrib, lit on one end, and burned one by one every 15 minutes or so. This led to their use as a measure of time. [...] Hawaiians also extracted the oil from the nut and burned it in a stone oil lamp called a kukui hele po (light, darkness goes) with a wick made of kapa cloth.
  
  Hawaiians also had many other uses for the tree, including: leis from the shells, leaves and flowers; ink for tattoos from charred nuts; a varnish with the oil; and fishermen would chew the nuts and spit them on the water to break the surface tension and remove reflections, giving them greater underwater visibility. A red-brown dye made from the inner bark was used on kapa and aho (Touchardia latifolia cordage). A coating of kukui oil helped preserve ʻupena (fishing nets). The nohona waʻa (seats), pale (gunwales) of waʻa (outrigger canoes) were made from the wood. The trunk was sometimes used to make smaller canoes used for fishing.
  
  Kukui was named the state tree of Hawaii on 1 May 1959 due to its multitude of uses. It also represents the island of Molokaʻi, whose symbolic color is the silvery green of the kukui leaf.

• Hala is named after another tree found in Hawaii.
  
  

  The seal of Punahou School in Honolulu, Hawaii features the hala tree, in part because lauhala, the art of weaving with the leaves of that tree, is pivotal to the history of the island, with everything from houses to pillows being made in this fashion. Local legend tells of an aged Hawaiian couple who lived long ago above the present Punahou campus, and had to travel far for water. They prayed each night for a spring, but to no avail. Finally one night, in a dream answering their prayers, they were told to uproot the stump of an old hala tree. They did as they were told and found a spring of clear, sweet water, which they named Ka Punahou, the New Spring. According to legend, Punahou School's lily pond is fed by this same spring.

As Pokémon professors have historically been named after trees even in English -- Oak, Elm, Birch, Rowan, Juniper, and Sycamore -- it seems only fitting that the Alolan professor, Hala, would be named after a Hawaiian tree.

One thing is clear -- Game Freak is still keeping the tradition of naming gym leaders, E4, and professors -- how could I have forgotten professors earlier today? -- after plants alive and strong. It seems all the more doubtful now that we're going to get any E4 or gym leaders in SM named "Ed" or "Caitlin," at least not in the Japanese version of the game. Could still be a possibility for the English-language version, but I wouldn't count on it.

I need to rewatch the Japanese trailer, but someone pointed out that the Hawaiian boy introduces himself as Hoku. If he's Hoku, then there's one of our silhouettes identified. Either a) the names aren't easter eggs at all or else b) they are but Hoku is then probably the name of the friendly rival shown in the trailer. (The one with the big smile who doesn't even seem like a rival he's so friendly.) So again, not an indication of gym leaders or E4.

Originally Posted by deoxys

I have this theory that the reason Gen 6 had such few new Pokemon is because a. The introduction of megas count as "unique" new Pokemon too, to some degree, but b. Because they had to make and animate 700+ Pokemon in Maya.

Which leads me to believe that, since Maya is being used in Gen 7, here is what will happen: All Gen 6 models will be imported to Gen 7, which will leave them time to make even more new Pokemon to create and animate, and then to top that off, they will be able to go back through Gen 6 sprites and add new animations.

It makes sense when you consider it. "Why did we only get 70 new Pokemon in Gen 6 Gamfreak!?" "Because we spent so much time 3D modeling and animating all of the currently existing ones!" Well, now they don't really need to do that, which means they can just simply import all of them and go back through to add uniqueness to the animations, and variations to attacks - and I'd wager it also means we will have at least 100 new Pokemon this gen (not counting new mega evolutions).

If what you're saying is true -- "we planned for 2+ gens on the same hardware; we did the bulk of the legwork with the first of the gens; that gen received fewer new Pokémon and moves because ffs we don't have time to animate everything; but the later gens received spiffier moves and animations because now we have time" -- then it begs the question of what they're going to do for Gen 8. Surely they're not going to release Gen 8 on the 3DS. And the New 3DS isn't enough of an upgrade to be worth considering either. Surely Gen 8 is going to come out on the as-yet unrevealed next-gen handheld of Nintendo's. If that's the case, then wouldn't that mean that Gen 8 is going to require the "re-do everything in Maya" step you mentioned to be done all over again, with new development tools on the new hardware? Wouldn't that mean that, the more the generations add up, this problem is going to get worse and worse for Game Freak?

[Kindrindra]

*Hugs the wall*

PIPPLIO AAAAAAH ITS SO CUTE I COULD CRY
The bubble balls are really cool too, it's so easy to picture how you could use them in a 3D environment like the anime or an RP... If it doesn't naturally learn Bounce I will be very surprised. I'm curious to see how they'll all lean stat-wise on the Physical/Special axis. If Floofowl- Err, Rowlet-'s data about having powerful kicks is an accurate hint at where it'll go on that front... I can imagine some awesome fanarts with it's final form and Blaziken showing off- They even each have SE with one of their STABs on the other! Litten's spitting fire initially makes me think Special, but the fact that it's its fur that is flammable makes me think we are in for some Flare Blitz funtimes. Popplio I have literally no idea. Agile with high speed coupled with either bounce-fueled impacts or mastery of water? A more 'ringmaster' type with high defences and support? Or maybe good speed and defences? I'd love any of them~ XoX
As an aside, I'd actually be quite surprised if Litten became Fire/Dark. Although that might just be my instinctive "Black=/=Dark" kicking in, afterall the "doesn't show it's emotions much" could hint towards that path.

Luna'ala (is that it's name?) is so much my aesthetic and so elegant and the colour scheme is so masterful and aaaaaah its perfect for me I love it
I cannot for the life of me figure out what its typing will be though. Dark would be awesome. Fairy would make a lot of sense because #Moon. Dark/Fairy would utterly slay my heart but it's got a lot of other options it could take. Flying, Psychic, maybe even Steel. Pairing them up gives me some guesses of Dark/Flying (bit boring), Fairy/Flying (pretty cool, but seems like a really odd typing with how dark it's colour scheme is), Dark/Psychic (This would be pretty sick thematically), or Dark/Steel (unlikely but a possibility). I feel like Levitate fits it a bit better than being an actual Flying-Type but Levitate is so old-school and it does have huge wings.


For attack animations, honestly for me the ideal would be that each pokemon gets 3 default animations (contact, non-contact, and support- we even already have the all the flags we'd need... or well, almost) and then 'mon with signature moves can get another one... Or maybe just legendaries, yeah. XD

[Ironthunder]

See, the Pokemon's bodies doing unique things with the attacks I thought started with Oblivion Wing and Yveltal.

[TheKnightsFury]

Rowlet is cute but i feel like we may be facing an owl infestation better call the....

Spoiler: show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxEpzum_HCw

[Ironthunder]

Nah, we don't need to pay exterminators. Just put new!Mt Moon in the region, and the Zubat swarm will eat the fuckers alive.

[Heather]

Talon's point makes me wonder: you know, there are several Pokemon with moves that just don't make sense on them seemingly-Element punch Gastly comes to mind-but what if GF actually varies their animation to show why on earth Wooper gets Ice Punch? I'd LOVE to see that!

[Ironthunder]

I think it'll be legends-only, and only with their 'signature' moves. Having individual animations like that for everything would take forever, and unless they've been working on this since XY (which I doubt because ORAS), I don't think they'll have had nearly enough time.

[rotomotorz]

Originally Posted by Serebii March 12th

The next image from CoroCoro has leaked showcasing the limit of what is in CoroCoro for Sun & Moon. In this small bit of information, it promises that from next month, special features on Sun & Moon will begin in the magazine. This will begin next issue, which is released on April 15th 2016.

Originally Posted by Serebii April 12th

The first images from CoroCoro have leaked and have revealed that next month's issue of CoroCoro will provide a huge scoop on Pokémon Sun & Moon. It has text saying that you can't see the Pokémon in the box art yet.

Originally Posted by Serebii May 12th

Some images have appeared from this month's CoroCoro and within the issue, while not providing any more new news about Pokémon Sun & Pokémon Moon, it confirmed that next month's issue will have an exclusive scoop on Pokémon Sun & Moon

I see a pattern

[phoopes]

Culminating with the game being leaked early, on November 12th

[Missingno. Master]

Wow. I mean, I wasn't expecting CoroCoro to give us anything the trailer didn't already give us, but it didn't even give us that much? Yeesh. Were it not for the trailer coming out, I'd already be investing money in companies that make torches and pitchforks, in anticipation of the impending angry mob.

[Ironthunder]

inb4 they break the trend next month with the entire Pokedex being leaked.

Speaking of the Dex, if the region is multiple islands, do you reckon there'll be sub-dexes for each island, like how XY had the Kalos dex split up into three parts?

[Missingno. Master]

Originally Posted by Ironthunder

Speaking of the Dex, if the region is multiple islands, do you reckon there'll be sub-dexes for each island, like how XY had the Kalos dex split up into three parts?

That's certainly a possibility. Never thought of that.

[Whimsy]

Oh hey does this mean I can use that "it's fucking nothing" gif I prepared earlier?

No but seriously, I understand there may be a schedule to the spoilers and I understand people do get a little hasty and jump the bandwagon at times when it comes to wanting to share the news (Ao Shin, mirite league fans?) but honestly, three months of Soon™ is pushing it just a little. I mean I am optimistic still that next month we will get some news, mostly because we've just started spoiler season with this month's reveals but...
idk hopeless optimism is my highest stat

[Raves]

Okay, a second glance at Litten just dawned something prety damn disturbing. Maybe I;m overlooking things, but this cat's going to pretty much evolveto Fire/Dark. Why?

Look at the mark on its head and the eyes. Then realise it strongly resembles the Leviathan Cross, symbol of Satan.

And we all said Giratina was the devil...