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Old 11-27-2012, 12:00 AM   #51
Talon87
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So many ifs. So many unintentionally hilarious ifs. Poooooooooor Focus Energy.

Focus Energy: ;.;
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:08 AM   #52
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Eh, I've gotten Focus Energy to work before. It's definitely the move I've gotten to work the least, but...

Then again, I'm the kind of person who gets moves most people think suck to work just for the challenge, soooo...
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:18 AM   #53
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No one ever said they couldn't "get it to work", just that it isn't worth bothering with in the first place. Just because you can get a 1979 Honda to work doesn't mean it's a preferable ride over a 2012 Bentley. ^^;
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:26 AM   #54
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Well, I guess I phrased that badly. By 'get to work' I meant 'make into something worth bothering with'. But Focus Energy is like Swords Dance in that it's one of those moves which doesn't find that much use ingame.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:04 AM   #55
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I personally use Swords Dance and other boosting moves ingame, especially against gym leaders or rival battles. This strengthens the master movepool argument, though, because it would be nice to rotate moves like Swords Dance into my movepool right before a gym fight, so I didn't have to keep it as one of the four moves all the time, in preparation for the 10 battles I'll actually use it for.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:05 AM   #56
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I like the four-moveslot thing. It does offer a challenge and it can be quite fun to do. In fact, in the offered scenario I'd probably lose either Swords Dance or (more likely) Submission rather than Focus Energy, because crit increase goes hand in hand with Slash and Shadow Claw, and quite frankly, crits are useful (bypassing defensive buffs) and just oh, so satisfying. If I remember right, crits also bypass Reflect, although I may be wrong on that account.

How about another scenario. Excadrill with Hone Claws, Rock Slide, X-Scissor, and Earthquake. He wants to learn Drill Run. Now, do you use the more powerful Earthquake, or use the crit-increase and single-target aim to your advantage (as, in-game, Double/Triple Battles are definitely things, generally not so much in comp where single battles are standard). Both have great merits. As well, on the same Pokemon, a decision between X-Scissor and Shadow Claw. One has a bit more power, the other a bit more accuracy. One benefits you against Caitlin and Grimsley (as well as Iris's Hydreigon, providing you can outspeed it or take a SE Surf/Fire Blast/Focus Blast and stay standing), the other against Caitlin and Shantaul (at least, the Pokemon Earthquake won't hit harder). Same with Hone Claws (lower power boost but improved accuracy with Rock Slide and Drill Run) vs Swords Dance (bigger power boost but doesn't help accuracy at all, meaning a bit more chance of missing). It's just like the classic question of natures: you can't have them all, so you have to make a choice.

Sure, some Pokemon it's easy. Physical Zebstrika? Wild Charge, Return, and a couple fillers, like Double Kick, Flame Charge, or Pursuit, or some sort of support move. I have a Banette with Shadow Claw, Shadow Sneak, Return, and Will-O-Wisp, because of lack of a better fourth move. But it's been a staple of the game since the very first, making you choose because that's part of the fun.

Besides, do you really want to scroll through a list of 50-something moves every single turn to find the perfect one?
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:07 AM   #57
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I personally use Swords Dance and other boosting moves ingame, especially against gym leaders or rival battles. This strengthens the master movepool argument, though, because it would be nice to rotate moves like Swords Dance into my movepool right before a gym fight, so I didn't have to keep it as one of the four moves all the time, in preparation for the 10 battles I'll actually use it for.
But that's the entire point of what I'm saying- the ability to rotate in a move at precisely when you need it and only for when you need it takes out all the challenge.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:10 AM   #58
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The point of the master movelist is that you have the ability to change it anytime outside of battle, and it's saved for multiple battles, until you change it again.

Say I'm about to fight Clay, and I want to use Energy Ball, even though it isn't in my current movepool (just ignore the fact that no one would get rid of Energy Ball before fighting Clay). I pull of the master movepool menu, select Energy Ball, and voila, it's there. I then go on to fight Clay and decide I like Energy Ball. No need to reselect it, I just keep it in my moveset as is. Changes only happen manually when needed.

It's basically just condensing the Move Tutor/Move Relearner/Move Forgetter/TM/HM into one menu so you don't have to travel around all the time and spend tons of Heart Scales/BP.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:11 AM   #59
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If you want a challenge, why not do a self-imposed one? Nuzlocke, etc. Some people don't like being screwed out of awesome moves because they don't have 100+ hours to screw around in a Pokemon game.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:43 AM   #60
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The point of the master movelist is that you have the ability to change it anytime outside of battle, and it's saved for multiple battles, until you change it again.

Say I'm about to fight Clay, and I want to use Energy Ball, even though it isn't in my current movepool (just ignore the fact that no one would get rid of Energy Ball before fighting Clay). I pull of the master movepool menu, select Energy Ball, and voila, it's there. I then go on to fight Clay and decide I like Energy Ball. No need to reselect it, I just keep it in my moveset as is. Changes only happen manually when needed.

It's basically just condensing the Move Tutor/Move Relearner/Move Forgetter/TM/HM into one menu so you don't have to travel around all the time and spend tons of Heart Scales/BP.
Yeah, but that's what I'm saying the problem is. Being able to change your entire team's moveset to perfectly counter each and every battle defeats the entire point of even having the battles.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:04 AM   #61
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Yeah, but that's what I'm saying the problem is. Being able to change your entire team's moveset to perfectly counter each and every battle defeats the entire point of even having the battles.
... what!? Does "war" mean nothing to you? ^^; Historic generals changed their troop formations, infantry/cavalry/artillery ratios, and other various battle strategies all the time on a battle by battle basis. "Oh, the enemy encampment is on a beach with mountains to the south, ocean to the north, and forests on either side? We'll launch a pincer attack from each of the two forests and rout them!" "Oh, now this time it's different and it's a naval battle? Okay then ... how about we set fire to their boats with fire arrows?" "Oh, this time it's a battle on the open plains and we have superior numbers? BRUTE FORCE CHAAAAAAAARGE!" Whether the battle was at sea or on land ... whether the battle was won by foot soldiers, horses, or artillery ... castle sieges vs. open warfare on plains vs. guerilla warfare in forests or mountain valleys ... the use of fire ... the use of poison ... the use of spies ... the use of decoys ... the planned use of the weather ... on and on the list goes! Winners throughout history have thought on their toes and planned accordingly for each and every fight. Locking yourself in with moves is just as foolish as, and no more noble an endeavour than, locking yourself in with your creatures. If you're going to sit there and tell me "It shows more strategy if you only use the same four moves," I'm going to sit here and say back to you that by your logic it should show more strategy if you only use the very first six Pokémon you encounter (and yes, you MUST capture them, NO CHEATING by strategically delaying who you catch until opportune moments). Obviously you don't do that. Obviously you allow yourself to rotate creatures between battles. How many people here have boasted or moaned about switching in a Ground type for their fight against Elesa? How many people here have gone on record to say that they brought someone out of the PC for a specific gym fight and then put them back in? How is that any different than rotating moves between battles?
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:33 AM   #62
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Obviously you don't do that. Obviously you allow yourself to rotate creatures between battles. How many people here have boasted or moaned about switching in a Ground type for their fight against Elesa? How many people here have gone on record to say that they brought someone out of the PC for a specific gym fight and then put them back in? How is that any different than rotating moves between battles?
Err...

People do that? :/

I never reconfigure my team for a specific battle- once I have my six partners which I've decided to stick with out of all the ones I've seen, I use them and only them. When necessary, I use HM Slaves, but that's the maximum amount of variation.


I... Didn't realize that wasn't the typically course of action. I'd argue that it's not the same as your war example, because in your example you're simply switching up strategies. Changing moves for every battle isn't that- It's going all the way back to base and changing the units and weaponry you're bringing. I've always argued that you should find a way balance your team so that you're prepared for every situation as you are. But, from what you're saying, this isn't in fact universal, so... idk. Though I'd still argue that switching up pokemon is different from being able to change moves at will, as it provides a cost/benefit split- You gain a temporary advantage, but sacrifice the EXP on that unused 'mon.



...I suddenly understand why other players have to grind. *Dawning realization*

EDIT: Might not respond for a while. Having that 'Everything I ever knew was a lie' moment.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:59 AM   #63
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That is a lot of willful ignorance on your part man. I mean, I know people who went through entire games by just leveling up their starter so high that even if it was at a type disadvantage they'd still breeze through, but what is the point of having catchable monsters at later parts of the games if switching out Pokemon from your old team to better strengthen your team with the newer, stronger Pokemon was not part of the game? The only way I can believe you thought everyone played the nuzlock way all the time is if you started at Gen 4 or 5, but that isn't the case.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:41 AM   #64
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I think Talon is the only one that does that. I usually play with 3-5 pokemon on my team.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:47 AM   #65
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If it's my first playthrough I'll stick to a team, but for subsequent playthroughs I switch around at will.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:06 AM   #66
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I think Talon is the only one that does that. I usually play with 3-5 pokemon on my team.
Don't lie! First off, I don't ever have to do the examples I provided because I know exactly who I want, invest experience points only in permanent keepers, and more. I mentioned other people saying those things precisely because it was other people, not me.

But second of all, don't you lie to me when I just watched you play Pokémon FRLG this summer and saw you switching around members of your own team as you needed or wanted. I specifically recall you withdrawing (and subsequently depositing) somebody for a gym battle. I recall you changing up your team on Cinnabar as you upgraded to Kabuto. I'm pretty sure you did something many people do which is to withdraw an HM dude for a certain task and then promptly deposit him again once you had done it. Yes, from the start of the game you had been thinking about who your final six (including Kabutops) would be; but, don't sit there and tell the board that you had an active roster of five or fewer before hitting Cinnabar, dude.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:15 AM   #67
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You also have to realize that people don't want to play the game exactly the same way as you do, Kin. I am not playing Pokemon for a challenge (usually). I am playing Pokemon to have a good time. If I want a challenge I will go play a strategy game or do my homework.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:46 PM   #68
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Don't lie! First off, I don't ever have to do the examples I provided because I know exactly who I want, invest experience points only in permanent keepers, and more. I mentioned other people saying those things precisely because it was other people, not me.

But second of all, don't you lie to me when I just watched you play Pokémon FRLG this summer and saw you switching around members of your own team as you needed or wanted. I specifically recall you withdrawing (and subsequently depositing) somebody for a gym battle. I recall you changing up your team on Cinnabar as you upgraded to Kabuto. I'm pretty sure you did something many people do which is to withdraw an HM dude for a certain task and then promptly deposit him again once you had done it. Yes, from the start of the game you had been thinking about who your final six (including Kabutops) would be; but, don't sit there and tell the board that you had an active roster of five or fewer before hitting Cinnabar, dude.
That was the only time I did different. Only because I pretty much said "You know I want to have a full team this time" or something.

First time playing Blue I just had Blastoise and Haunter, Gold had 5 pokes (starter, togepi, misdrevous, ampharos, jumpluff), RuSa had god knows what cause I hated that game, Pearl had Empoleon, Staraptor, and Luxray. Etc.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:04 PM   #69
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Fair enough. I'm just saying, don't go throwing me under the bus when I don't normally do these practices either and you've done 'em once or twice yourself. ^^;

Really, the point of all this isn't even for Story Mode, as I note in my video, but for competitive play. Move Tutors were a retarded and incomplete fix to this Gen-1-old problem. They're like a band-aid on a lopped-off arm. Not doin' it. But as far as Story Mode applications go, Amras has been nailing it yet most everyone's either ignoring him or disagreeing with him. Baffles me, fuckin' baffles me.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:23 PM   #70
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Talon, just be happy they made TMs infinite use and accept that the idea of a master Movepool would be like the ability to freely change classes in CoD without dying.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:01 PM   #71
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No, it wouldn't. You guys just don't get it. Your analogy would compare with being able to change your moves during a battle. In real life, people change what they play as in CoD or WoW all the time. They bounce between this gear arrangement and that gear arrangement. Let's even look specifically at WoW and take the comparison one step further. During most high-level raids, you don't have the luxury of time to change around your gear mid-fight; but you can totally change things up as you go from one dungeon to the next! People put on their anti-ice armor when they go raid the dungeon with the ice fiends. Then they put on their anti-fire armor when they go raid the dungeon with the fire demons. They put on their anti-poison armor when they go raid the dungeon filled with venomous insects. And so on and so on and so forth. WoW doesn't come up to them and say, "Well, pfft, that isn't much of a challenge, dweebs. How 'bouts ya just keep the same armor on at all times? And once you unequip it, that's fine, but you can never have it back?"

It's not rocket science, people. There is absolutely no difference between the following two scenarios except one takes hundreds more hours to do assuming you don't cheat:

Scenario A: I have two Raichus. One is a lead with four certain moves, the other is a mid-game sweeper with four other moves, only two of which are the same. I hatched both of them independently from eggs. They have the exact same nature and ability and IVs. They have different EVs and moves though.

Scenario B: As before, only this time I only have one Raichu and GameFreak makes it possible that I can tweak EVs from a special screen and I can also re-apply moves from a master movepool. If you want to say "not accessible during Story Mode," whatever, fine by me. The primary intent has always been for post-Story Mode anyway, to make it so that people can be competitively varied without wasting hundreds of hours of their lives or without cheating.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:04 PM   #72
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Make a simple list your predicitions thread and end up with wishlists & warring...?

Pokémon: Serious Business


04.) Expanded Global Link support (maybe a version that works with the 3DS browser?)
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:54 AM   #73
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It would be nice to have a GTS that actually works well.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:09 AM   #74
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There are 4 things that I also want back from previous generations that I honestly missed.

1) The follower Pokemon from HG/SS

2) The versus finder.

3) Growing berries.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:17 AM   #75
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There are 4 things that I also want back from previous generations that I honestly missed.

1) The follower Pokemon from HG/SS

2) The versus finder.

3) Growing berries.
Oh god the VS Seeker amen

And my precious Watmel Garden oh god why
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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