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Old 11-09-2012, 09:53 PM   #51
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Mono-sun will definitely be a threat, but so will mono-sand. Chlorophyll and Sand Rush are both good speedy abilities, and Sand Stream and Drought are both difficult to work around.

I can see Sand rivaling Sun, though. Hippopotas and Vulpix both fill their roles well, and Sand Force can be pretty good, too.

Is Sand Force legal on Shellos or Diglett yet?

EDIT: We have Snover and Phanpy, as well as Delibird that may be able to cover 'pluff.
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:54 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kairne View Post
Mono-sun will definitely be a threat, but so will mono-sand. Chlorophyll and Sand Rush are both good speedy abilities, and Sand Stream and Drought are both difficult to work around.

I can see Sand rivaling Sun, though. Hippopotas and Vulpix both fill their roles well, and Sand Force can be pretty good, too.

Is Sand Force legal on Shellos or Diglett yet?
Yes to both.

And I though something being banned from UU would make it a no-no here.
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:57 PM   #53
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If we ban Hippopotas and/or Snover, we should ban Vulpix, too.
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:57 PM   #54
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TBH, I use Shuckle in higher tiers solely so I can Power Split their sweepers and kill them.

You'd be surprised at what can happen when your 600 attack is averaged out with Shuckle's 13 attack.

Power Split is such a godsend though.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:00 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kairne View Post
If we ban Hippopotas and/or Snover, we should ban Vulpix, too.
It was more Hippopotas, because of how good he is. Snover is still in the LC tier, and Vulpix...is not that great.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:03 PM   #56
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Pardon me if I don't see it, but what makes him so gosh-darn good?
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:05 PM   #57
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Pardon me if I don't see it, but what makes him so gosh-darn good?
Eviolite + Slack Off.

Also, I m drooling at Abra right now. 300 speed and special attack is scary.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:12 PM   #58
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Hmm, lemme theorycraft for a sec...

If Snover and Vulpix are our auto-weather bringers, Hail is at a noticeable disadvantage to Sun. But without sun to keep it in check, Hail has quite enough Ice-types in the tier to lolBlizzard everything, including that scarf Glaceon I mentioned earlier. Of course, if a trend of non-auto weathers emerge, sun could find itself in trouble when the opponent sets up rain or sand- I can't think of any sun sweepers which would be unable to stop Mantyke from walking in, setting up rain, and heavily turning the tide of battle. Aron, too, to a lesser extent, since he's not as specially durable, and worries about a sun-boosted fire move. Hail, however, faces similar fears from Aron- After setting up a sandstorm, Aron would be near-impervious to many hail strategies, bar water moves, and proceed to Head Smash everything into oblivion without the help of it's teammates. They also have to worry about the afore mentioned sun, but I believe Snover out-slows Vulpix and sets their weather up first in a lead-off?


The thing is Sandstorm really wouldn't be broken, but Hippopotas as a pokemon is. While Snover and Vulpix have many problems, Hippo-darling would be a passable 'mon without sand. But many sand 'mon aren't as effective without auto-sand. Though I suppose Regenerator Corsola could serve as a psudo-auto-sander with the Sandy Stone (Or whatever it's called).


EDIT: Oh, Abra. To be fair, I was worried about him being too powerful, but Liepard and priority really eat him alive. EvoScraggy serves a pretty good job of it, too.

EDIT2: Mightyena isn't too strong, right?

EDIT3: Wait a sec, gonna do some calcs. How well does Hippo stand up to the wealth of Ices this tier promises?
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.

Last edited by Kindrindra; 11-09-2012 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:18 PM   #59
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I have been making sets for like the past half hour, and would like to name some Pokemon I think would be amazing.

Gloom: Gloom is more than just an ugly stench maker. In the sun, it has 200 speed, and a nice 200 Sp. Atk for a wall. This can make it very anti-stall, especially with Leech Seed. Has nice bulk too.

Mankey: Mankey's 85 Attack is pretty scary, though, when compared to more physical sweepers like Beedrill and Hustle Nidorino, it might be better than revenge killer. Ponyta is also similar.

Weepinbell: THE sun sweeper. Weather Ball is what makes it killer.

Machoke: Iffy. Bulk Up and EvioCareful makes it extremely bulky. Plus Dynamicpunch??????
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:23 PM   #60
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Yeah, I think Machoke might be too strong. That bulk+Evolite+NoGuardDynamic? Off a whooping 100 base attack?
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:24 PM   #61
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Quote:
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Yeah, I think Machoke might be too strong. That bulk+Evolite+NoGuardDynamic?
I was thinking that too. Says the person who put clefable on the list.

Graveler and Dewgong are also possibilities.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:37 PM   #62
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Ah, I've been dancing around looking over Dewgong for some reason.

Checking them out, they're stunningly bulky, but keeping in mind they can't use Evolite, it's only borderline. Their stats appear similar to Phione, but with a slight tipping towards defense. The choice of abilities and delicious Ice/Water STAB is rather frightening, but it's one of those things which seem borderline enough to be 'wait and see'-type deals- She fits nicely onto rain, hail, or weatherless teams, but there are quite a few powerful fighters waiting in the wings to match their strength against her.

Graveler... Hmm. Those stats and that Evolite ability scare me, and bring thoughts of Lairon, but I have to admit that his typing is very different- Rock/Ground is a stellar offensive combination, but brings a weakness to Grass and Water, two primarily specially based types, targeting his lower defense. Though I have to admit most of the water-types I saw in this tier actually have a higher physical attack, which is... odd. Grass-types, on the other hand, like that Gloom you pointed out, are likely to frighten Graveler, though Fire Punch will deal hefty damage to them if they fail to OHKO him- and Sturdy means you MUST have prior damage on him. I'm leaning a little towards "Too strong", but he's questionable enough that I'd like to do a little testing before hammering this rock.


EDIT: Carvanha? Speed Boost is making me iffy about this one.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
Quote:
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.

Last edited by Kindrindra; 11-09-2012 at 10:41 PM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:39 PM   #63
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Oh thank God you posted. I did not want to double post. Here are some more Pokes you might want to include:

Staryu
Rhyhorn
Drowzee
Electrode(???????????)
Ditto
Cubone(??)
Onix(an Aron who has no Attack)
Lickitung
Shellder(????)

Also, I take it DeepSeaTooth Clamperl is VERY MUCH BANNED?
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:54 PM   #64
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Staryu- Meant to put them on, not sure how forgot.

Rhyhorn- Graveler with lower attack, lower defenses but higher HP. Can we have him instead of Graveler?

Drowsee- Looks good, tempted to let Hypno in as well.

Electrode- WAAAAAAAAAY too fast for 80 power.

Ditto- Already on there. ;)

Cubone- Why am I not surprised you would bring him up? Sure, let's try him out- Evolite and Thick Club both have their merits, but I would favor Thick Club, myself.

Onix- Not quite an Aron with no attack, but close. An Aron with no attack who takes no damage from physical moves- sounds fair. Will find competition with Aron and Shuckle, though.

Lickitung- Kid's got some crazy bulk, but let's see if that's enough to shine.

Shellder- I was thinking it looked like a physical Mantyke, but then I saw Shell Smash. Does lack of STAB on Icicle Shard make it manageable? May as well find out.


ToothClamperl- MOTHER OF GOD KEEP THAT THING POINTED AWAY FROM ME.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:56 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindrindra View Post
Staryu- Meant to put them on, not sure how forgot.

Rhyhorn- Graveler with lower attack, lower defenses but higher HP. Can we have him instead of Graveler?

Drowsee- Looks good, tempted to let Hypno in as well.

Electrode- WAAAAAAAAAY too fast for 80 power.

Ditto- Already on there. ;)

Cubone- Why am I not surprised you would bring him up? Sure, let's try him out- Evolite and Thick Club both have their merits, but I would favor Thick Club, myself.

Onix- Not quite an Aron with no attack, but close. An Aron with no attack who takes no damage from physical moves- sounds fair. Will find competition with Aron and Shuckle, though.

Lickitung- Kid's got some crazy bulk, but let's see if that's enough to shine.

Shellder- I was thinking it looked like a physical Mantyke, but then I saw Shell Smash. Does lack of STAB on Icicle Shard make it manageable? May as well find out.


ToothClamperl- MOTHER OF GOD KEEP THAT THING POINTED AWAY FROM ME.
I'm okay with replacing Graveler with Rhyhorn. Gen I all over again.

Also, no Togetic? Am dissapoint. If you don't want me over doing it, just say. I am just TOTALLY INTO THIS!
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:02 PM   #66
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Sorry, I love Togetic so much I though wanting to throw it in was just my personal bias. Now that someone else agrees, though... >:D


EDIT: Just looked at her stats- holy fuggers, please let this be the right choice.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:29 PM   #67
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Sorry, I love Togetic so much I though wanting to throw it in was just my personal bias. Now that someone else agrees, though... >


EDIT: Just looked at her stats- holy fuggers, please let this be the right choice.
I don't think it is the stats the might be the killer, it is the Baton Pass options.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:31 PM   #68
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Ah, BPing NP would be a breeze with those defensive stats.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:33 PM   #69
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Ah, BPing NP would be a breeze with those defensive stats.
I had something far more grander.

Ancientpower + Silver Wind.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:37 PM   #70
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You're forgetting Ominous Wind (Only knows this because he once ran a gimmick Togekiss with all three).


So Your Choice of two of the three moves alongside Roost and Baton Pass? Tasty. Unbeatable in the hands of Talon. XD
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
Quote:
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:50 PM   #71
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Cryogonal- What think? Insane speed and special defense, along with huge special attack for the teir, offset only by being as physically fragile as, well, a snowflake.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:52 PM   #72
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Cryogonal- What think? Insane speed and special defense, along with huge special attack for the teir, offset only by being as physically fragile as, well, a snowflake.
IDK. Is considered in the RU tier, not to mention that he can comfortably wall quite a bit of the tier.

I am conflicted, but I say no.

EDIT: We should totally have Octillery.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:55 PM   #73
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Good point. Picturing them under hail is... a scary thought.
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Quote:
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:04 AM   #74
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Here is Sun in FF.

Spoiler: show

Battle between DiamondSomething and Plight of Leon started!

Rule: Unrated

DiamondSomething sent out Ditto!
Plight of Leon sent out Vulpix!
Vulpix's Drought intensified the sun's rays!
DiamondSomething: Shite, I forgot something, didn't I?

Start of turn 1
Vulpix used Will-O-Wisp!
The foe's Ditto was burned!

The foe's Ditto used Transform!
The foe's Ditto transformed into Vulpix!

The sunlight is strong!
The foe's Ditto is hurt by its burn!
Plight of Leon: no impostor?
DiamondSomething: Yeah, that would be what I forgot.

Start of turn 2
Plight of Leon called Vulpix back!
Plight of Leon sent out Ponyta!

The foe's Ditto used Pain Split!
The battlers shared their pain!

The sunlight is strong!
The foe's Ditto is hurt by its burn!

Start of turn 3
DiamondSomething called Ditto back!
DiamondSomething sent out Stu! (Torkoal)

Ponyta used Double-Edge!
The foe's Stu lost 18% of its health!
Ponyta is hit with recoil!

The sunlight is strong!

Start of turn 4
Plight of Leon called Ponyta back!
Plight of Leon sent out Porygon!

The foe's Stu used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around Plight of Leon's team!

The sunlight is strong!

Start of turn 5
DiamondSomething called Stu back!
DiamondSomething sent out Lil' bro! (Scraggy)

Porygon used Tri Attack!
Porygon's Normal Gem raised Tri Attack's power!
The foe's Lil' bro lost 56% of its health!

The sunlight is strong!

Start of turn 6
Plight of Leon called Porygon back!
Plight of Leon sent out Combusken!
Pointed stones dug into Combusken!

The foe's Lil' bro used Rest!
The foe's Lil' bro went to sleep and became healthy!

The sunlight is strong!
Combusken restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 7
DiamondSomething called Lil' bro back!
DiamondSomething sent out Stu! (Torkoal)

Combusken used Swords Dance!
Combusken's Attack sharply rose!

The sunlight is strong!
Combusken restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Combusken's Speed Boost increases its speed!
Combusken's Speed rose!

Start of turn 8
Combusken used Protect!
Combusken protected itself!

The foe's Stu used Clear Smog!
Combusken protected itself!

The sunlight is strong!
Combusken's Speed Boost increases its speed!
Combusken's Speed rose!

Start of turn 9
Combusken used Sky Uppercut!
The foe's Stu lost 39% of its health!

The foe's Stu used Clear Smog!
Combusken lost 55 HP! (21% of its health)
Combusken's stat changes were eliminated!

The sunlight is strong!
Combusken restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Combusken's Speed Boost increases its speed!
Combusken's Speed rose!

Start of turn 10
DiamondSomething called Stu back!
DiamondSomething sent out Mozzu! (Hypno)

The foe's Mozzu's Forewarn makes it wary of Flare Blitz!
Combusken used Protect!
But it failed!

The sunlight is strong!
Combusken restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Combusken's Speed Boost increases its speed!
Combusken's Speed rose!

Start of turn 11
Combusken used Flare Blitz!
The foe's Mozzu lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Mozzu fainted!
Combusken is hit with recoil!

The sunlight is strong!
Combusken restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Combusken's Speed Boost increases its speed!
Combusken's Speed rose!
DiamondSomething sent out Shuckle!

Start of turn 12
Combusken used Swords Dance!
Combusken's Attack sharply rose!

The foe's Shuckle used Power Split!
The foe's Shuckle and Combusken had their power shared!

The sunlight is strong!
Combusken restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Combusken's Speed Boost increases its speed!
Combusken's Speed rose!

Start of turn 13
Combusken used Swords Dance!
Combusken's Attack sharply rose!

The foe's Shuckle used Toxic!
Combusken was badly poisoned!

The sunlight is strong!
Combusken restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Combusken is hurt by poison!
Combusken's Speed Boost increases its speed!
Combusken's Speed rose!

Start of turn 14
Combusken used Flare Blitz!
The foe's Shuckle lost 86% of its health!
Combusken is hit with recoil!

The foe's Shuckle used Power Split!
The foe's Shuckle and Combusken had their power shared!

The sunlight is strong!
Combusken restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Shuckle restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Combusken is hurt by poison!
Combusken's Speed Boost increases its speed!
Combusken's Speed rose!

Start of turn 15
Combusken used Flare Blitz!
The foe's Shuckle lost 20% of its health!
The foe's Shuckle fainted!
Combusken is hit with recoil!

The sunlight is strong!
Combusken restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Combusken is hurt by poison!
Combusken's Speed Boost increases its speed!
DiamondSomething sent out Stu! (Torkoal)

Start of turn 16
DiamondSomething called Stu back!
DiamondSomething sent out Ditto!

Combusken used Sky Uppercut!
It's super effective!
The foe's Ditto lost 71% of its health!
The foe's Ditto fainted!

The sunlight is strong!
Combusken restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Combusken is hurt by poison!
Combusken fainted!
DiamondSomething sent out Stu! (Torkoal)

Plight of Leon sent out Weepinbell!
Pointed stones dug into Weepinbell!

Start of turn 17
Weepinbell used Sludge Bomb!
The foe's Stu lost 42% of its health!
The foe's Stu fainted!
Weepinbell is hurt by its Life Orb!

The sunlight is strong!
DiamondSomething sent out Maple! (Glaceon)

Start of turn 18
Weepinbell used Weather Ball!
It's super effective!
The foe's Maple lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Maple fainted!
Weepinbell is hurt by its Life Orb!

The sunlight is strong!
DiamondSomething: Welp, I'm screwed.
DiamondSomething: Should of gone with my first team idea.
DiamondSomething sent out Lil' bro! (Scraggy)

Start of turn 19
Weepinbell used Growth!
Weepinbell's Attack sharply rose!
Weepinbell's Sp. Att. sharply rose!

The foe's Lil' bro is fast asleep!

The sunlight is strong!

Start of turn 20
Weepinbell used Weather Ball!
The foe's Lil' bro lost 78% of its health!
Weepinbell is hurt by its Life Orb!

The foe's Lil' bro is fast asleep!

The sunlight is strong!

Start of turn 21
Weepinbell used Weather Ball!
The foe's Lil' bro lost 21% of its health!
The foe's Lil' bro fainted!
Weepinbell is hurt by its Life Orb!

Plight of Leon won the battle!
Plight of Leon: This is team is successful.
DiamondSomething: Countered nicely.
Plight of Leon: weepinbell is awesome
DiamondSomething: Welp, making a good team.
Plight of Leon: yep
Plight of Leon: i am going to post the log
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:27 AM   #75
Slash
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I think that it presents Drought as too game-breaking for this tier, honestly. Plus, when did we decide to let Combusken in? He's in NU proper already.
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KAIRNE I WILL RIP OFF YOUR SCROTUM AND FEED IT TO YOU THROUGH A FUCKING SWIRLY STRAW.

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