UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Debate

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-02-2017, 05:53 PM   #3651
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
Trump's speech was a major success and really illustrates why Bannon is kept on the team.

That said, while I know Trump is looking for capable guys who also submit to authority - much like a corporation of military - it's amazing how awful guys like Sessions and Flynn could screw up regarding the Russian diplomat.

I don't think Russia wants to have plants, if that's what they are, be exposed like this, so clearly this is incompetence beyond what the diplomats themselves could dictate as acceptable international relations.

It's also disappointing Sessions gets his barb in regarding the guidance when he's probably out the door by next Thursday.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2017, 01:45 PM   #3652
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,766
New travel ban: only prevents issuance of new visas, no indefinite refugee ban for Syria, no ban on Iraq, no ban on GC holders or those with valid visas.

It's less crazy and stupid than the last order but still effectively baseless, especially when the DHS is alleged to have told the administration that terrorists are 75% of the time radicalized in the West.
__________________


私のことを消して本気で愛さないで 恋なんてただのゲーム 楽しめばそれでいい
閉ざした心を飾る 派手なドレスも靴も 孤独の友達

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2017, 08:47 PM   #3653
Mozz
Golden Wang of Justice
 
Mozz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
New travel ban: only prevents issuance of new visas, no indefinite refugee ban for Syria, no ban on Iraq, no ban on GC holders or those with valid visas.

It's less crazy and stupid than the last order but still effectively baseless, especially when the DHS is alleged to have told the administration that terrorists are 75% of the time radicalized in the West.
So if the "real threat" is 2nd generation Iranians, as an example, wouldn't it be a good thing to prevent 1st generation Iranians from getting citizenship or having anchor babies on lapsed visas?
__________________
Mozz's Van, named after Bulbagardens creditor, was a hidden forum section where staff members could share pictures of their tiny penises and engage in homosex. Sadly, HAVA media, Bulbagardens new corporate overlord, forced it's closure. Can't have porn on a children's website.
Mozz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2017, 10:53 PM   #3654
Blastoise
We deny our creators.
 
Blastoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Reduces construction time
Posts: 3,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozz View Post
So if the "real threat" is 2nd generation Iranians, as an example, wouldn't it be a good thing to prevent 1st generation Iranians from getting citizenship or having anchor babies on lapsed visas?
This may come as a shock to you, but people whose parents were born here can also commit crimes or become radicalized (and as things like Oklahoma City demonstrate, not just by Islam).

In any event, criminal babies are a red herring since Trump made a campaign promise of taking on Islamic terror now, not Islamic terror that's still fucking prenatal.
__________________
"It does not matter anymore. We cannot change the past. The future will have to do."
-Windham Khatib
Blastoise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2017, 08:27 AM   #3655
Rangeet
Foot, meet mouth.
 
Rangeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 4,362
Send a message via MSN to Rangeet Send a message via Skype™ to Rangeet
It's been extremely clear for a while now that the "real threat" to America is Republicans. It's so much cleaner to kill millions of people by ignoring climate change and denying people healthcare and denying people welfare than to actually blow them up or shoot them.

Sure, you can talk about passively vs actively killing people. I think the end result of people avoidably dying is the part that matters.
__________________
Spoiler: show
Rangeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2017, 09:19 AM   #3656
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
Actually, the real threat are the extremely rich. Republicans happen to have a lot of members who are extremely rich, but it's a problem on the Democratic side as well.

The class war isn't between rich and poor (despite what inequality might suggest), it's between the rich and middle class, and the rich declared war on the middle class almost from day one. The middle class has been largely clueless.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2017, 09:31 AM   #3657
Rangeet
Foot, meet mouth.
 
Rangeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 4,362
Send a message via MSN to Rangeet Send a message via Skype™ to Rangeet
There are clearly people who are extremely rich but aren't completely ignorant of reality (see: Bill Gates; Elon Musk) and there are clearly people who are extremely poor and yet still fall for every Republican lie.
__________________
Spoiler: show
Rangeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2017, 09:46 AM   #3658
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
The rich don't have much beef with the poor but the middle class totally does.

Also fuck rich people.
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2017, 10:12 AM   #3659
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangeet View Post
There are clearly people who are extremely rich but aren't completely ignorant of reality (see: Bill Gates; Elon Musk) and there are clearly people who are extremely poor and yet still fall for every Republican lie.
I'm pretty sure Gates/Musk are in on it too, but in less overt ways.

For example, billionaires, own hundreds of millions of acres of land that they hold in trust for the federal government. The idea is the feds want this land undeveloped/pristine, so as an incentive for tax purposes the IRS calculates the value the land should be worth if developed, then determines the difference between what it should be making and what it actually is making.

Since undeveloped land versus a fully developed plot isn't making any money, it generates an enormous tax loss. So the billionaires can declare this enormous loss on their returns and not pay anymore taxes. Meanwhile, the land goes unused because it cannot be developed or sold, and the trust is handed off to different members of the family every 15 years to keep the write-off in perpetuity.

Trump, with his tax manipulation shenanigans, was definitely among these Gilded Age barons prior to his celebrity, able to dodge losing much of his fortune to taxes. But I think he's different in how his narcissism is so enormous he values his name above his own fortune, and so can be trusted to make an attempt on his campaign promises.

Theoretically, James Gandolfini's situation should be close to the norm for rich people, except with regard to illiquid assets like houses. There should be ladder reset every generation or so with the upper crust. But the uber rich have been able to craft dynasties by manipulating tax law. And they're using politics to stumble the middle class, who are their biggest threat to losing that massive wealth.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2017, 08:03 AM   #3660
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,766
Assange got his hands on a huge number of CIA Docs, which he is terming Vault 7 and is releasing in 7 parts. The first part dropped recently and is mostly about the CIA being dicks and not informing software devs and companies like Apple and Microsoft of exploits so they can use them as backdoors. Also your smart TV is a listening device.

There's some really funny shit though like a glossary of Japanese emoticons.
__________________


私のことを消して本気で愛さないで 恋なんてただのゲーム 楽しめばそれでいい
閉ざした心を飾る 派手なドレスも靴も 孤独の友達

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2017, 02:38 AM   #3661
Shuckle
Problematic Fave
 
Shuckle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: VA
Posts: 3,199
I've been getting really worried over the level of invasiveness that phones have been getting. I believe it's rumored that the CIA will be monitoring everything coming out of those phones; I doubt they haven't at least been trying. They could probably build a new me based off the shit I put out on the Internet through google searches, "secure" payment forms, the information recorded in government records, aggregate data, website history, apps I download, emails I receive, etc.

I firmly believe at this point that the Internet is no longer secure except at the literal highest levels of encryption. That's scary.
__________________
Shuckle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2017, 11:23 AM   #3662
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuckle View Post
I've been getting really worried over the level of invasiveness that phones have been getting. I believe it's rumored that the CIA will be monitoring everything coming out of those phones; I doubt they haven't at least been trying. They could probably build a new me based off the shit I put out on the Internet through google searches, "secure" payment forms, the information recorded in government records, aggregate data, website history, apps I download, emails I receive, etc.

I firmly believe at this point that the Internet is no longer secure except at the literal highest levels of encryption. That's scary.
It doesn't work that way.

People are freaking out about this CIA Wikileaks leaks without realizing the context. I'm here to give you some relief.

The CIA DOES have the ability to get into pretty much any device. However, in the case of smartphones specifically, you pretty much need to have a malware app installed on your phone. Like, someone would had to have downloaded a sketchy malware app, onto the phone, in order for you to be at that sort of risk. I can't speak to the same of smart TVs and other IoT devices but there was an excellent interview on NPR this morning with the creator of Signal who helped clarify that this really is not something the CIA can just have blanket mass surveillance with. There are still restrictions in place.

But your concerns are nonetheless still valid, just, hopefully this provides some comfort.
__________________





MAL - Fizzy Bubbles - Twitter



deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2017, 05:05 PM   #3663
Shuckle
Problematic Fave
 
Shuckle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: VA
Posts: 3,199
I mean, the shit I do isn't important on a fundamental level. The CIA is fairly low on the list of people I don't want having my info, since they basically already have all the life-ruining stuff. Hackers who want my bank account details, Facebook, etc. are all bigger concerns for me.

I just really don't like the flippant attitude towards privacy that we see nowadays, especially since we don't have protection systems in place to make it hard to steal that important info. If someone steals my SSN, that's apparently not the government's problem...and that's something that I have absolutely no doubt is stored on many peoples' Firefoxes or phones.

If someone gets ahold of that number + your name and DOB, you're going to be battling off fraudulent charges until whoever it is just gives up and leaves you alone. Or you die. Whichever comes first. And to be clear, it doesn't actually end when you die; you just stop battling off the charges.

It is comforting that nobody's at THAT level yet, and that the surveillance isn't absolute and out of hand, but we have the technology to make it that way and I find that the CIA is not exactly the organization you trust with that kind of power.
__________________
Shuckle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2017, 07:43 PM   #3664
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
Worries about the IoT are completely justified. Devices in an IoT are not going to have the same level of firewall, encryption protection that PCs will. There's too many systems and it's too expensive. But if you use the same protection for a single, mass produced device, you are sitting on a potential botnet. CCTVs are currently recruited into existing DDOS attacks.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2017, 12:32 AM   #3665
Rangeet
Foot, meet mouth.
 
Rangeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 4,362
Send a message via MSN to Rangeet Send a message via Skype™ to Rangeet
The IOT is a fucking terrible idea especially when everything is manufactured in shitty Chinese factories.
__________________
Spoiler: show
Rangeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2017, 12:55 AM   #3666
phoopes
Double Dragon
 
phoopes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,776
I don't really have a problem with the government monitoring what I do. Like is someone really going to come to my house and bust me because Joe Schmo from the CIA read my texts and found that I've had alcohol underage? Probably not. I'll only really start having a problem if I feel like they're abusing that power. But in my mind I've done nothing to end up on some sort of terrorist watch list or anything so I don't think I have anything to worry about.
__________________
phoopes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2017, 12:58 AM   #3667
Rangeet
Foot, meet mouth.
 
Rangeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 4,362
Send a message via MSN to Rangeet Send a message via Skype™ to Rangeet
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoopes View Post
I don't really have a problem with the government monitoring what I do. Like is someone really going to come to my house and bust me because Joe Schmo from the CIA read my texts and found that I've had alcohol underage? Probably not. I'll only really start having a problem if I feel like they're abusing that power. But in my mind I've done nothing to end up on some sort of terrorist watch list or anything so I don't think I have anything to worry about.
Is that so?

How many numbers do you have saved on your phone? How many contacts do you have on Facebook? How many email addresses do you have in your list?

All it takes is for that one guy from Craigslist you sold your phone to five years ago to be a serial killer, and you're a person of interest.

And that's not even counting the potential ramifications of future politicians.
__________________
Spoiler: show
Rangeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2017, 01:09 AM   #3668
phoopes
Double Dragon
 
phoopes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,776
Not trying to be difficult here:

I don't trust Craigslist at all (even eBay kinda sketches me out) so I've never used it and never planned to. Also not understanding the point about future politicians. Can you expand on that?
__________________
phoopes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2017, 01:11 AM   #3669
Rangeet
Foot, meet mouth.
 
Rangeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 4,362
Send a message via MSN to Rangeet Send a message via Skype™ to Rangeet
Well, I'm just saying, it only takes one. I could join an eco-terrorism group in 5 years and everyone on this forum's on a shit list. That's just how governments work.

Secondly, can you imagine the blackmail material NSA/etc could dig up on famous personalities - especially politicians - and force them to give the agencies even more power, causing a vicious cycle? Especially if they have literally all your reddit posts or whatnot?
__________________
Spoiler: show
Rangeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2017, 01:16 AM   #3670
phoopes
Double Dragon
 
phoopes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,776
That's true that the government probably has compromising stuff on just about everyone, but forgive me if I'm not too concerned with the vicious cycle you mentioned after "grab them by the pussy" didn't stop Trump from getting elected.
__________________
phoopes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2017, 08:15 PM   #3671
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoopes View Post
I don't really have a problem with the government monitoring what I do. Like is someone really going to come to my house and bust me because Joe Schmo from the CIA read my texts and found that I've had alcohol underage? Probably not. I'll only really start having a problem if I feel like they're abusing that power. But in my mind I've done nothing to end up on some sort of terrorist watch list or anything so I don't think I have anything to worry about.
The access is a problem. I would bet that a lot of identity thefts happen out of insecure government systems. Many corporations and the federal government (depending on the agency) are using very old systems that are being patched up over the years because it's too much of a hassle to introduce a new system.

Once someone is accustom to something, it's harder to break up the relationship. Towns that grew around coal or the car industry are still around now that those industries are gone, and they're fighting to bring them back rather than adapt. Now that people are on Obamacare, they're fighting back to protect the health insurance they already have, which is a stronger pull than trying to fight for the health insurance in the first place.

If the government has access to you, your data is basically unsecure, because you cannot trust the person reading your information to respect your rights. The only safety is in no access.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2017, 08:29 PM   #3672
Mozz
Golden Wang of Justice
 
Mozz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,936
The "why do I care if the gov't watches me because I have nothing to hide" argument is incredibly tilting.
__________________
Mozz's Van, named after Bulbagardens creditor, was a hidden forum section where staff members could share pictures of their tiny penises and engage in homosex. Sadly, HAVA media, Bulbagardens new corporate overlord, forced it's closure. Can't have porn on a children's website.
Mozz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2017, 09:03 PM   #3673
Snorby
Snackin'
 
Snorby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,754
I agree. While I personally don't care much (mostly because if I started to care I'd start to panic about something that's not only out of my control but also something that definitely won't be changing anytime soon), people who pretend that only people who're trying to hide something should be concerned about their privacy are pretty much the entire reason this shit can slip through without the people responsible being punished accordingly in the court of public opinion.
__________________

Click on Fawful for my ASB squad summary. Other links coming soon.
Snorby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2017, 03:18 AM   #3674
Rangeet
Foot, meet mouth.
 
Rangeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 4,362
Send a message via MSN to Rangeet Send a message via Skype™ to Rangeet
American citizens are now "allowed" to be in America. Rejoice!
__________________
Spoiler: show
Rangeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 06:30 PM   #3675
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
Trump's presidency is certainly a bizarre one.

Some of the least substantial issues are at the top of news headlines, like how Comey denies that Obama wiretapped Trump. The whole matter is rooted in Trump's egoism and anti-media vendetta.

Yet, at the same time, Neil Gorsuch is probably going to be confirmed for the Supreme Court. The real news is buried beneath the pomp and circumstance.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Debate


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 5 (0 members and 5 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:36 AM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.