UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Debate

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-04-2016, 01:34 PM   #1426
Heather
Naga's Voice
 
Heather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: somewhere gay idk
Posts: 3,279
Well then, I guess I better start researching independent candidates.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTheFishGuy View Post
Quoth the Honchkrow (nevermore!).
Fizzy Member Post: Catherine Park
Heather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 01:47 PM   #1427
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Indiana: Lincoln's boyhood home.

Indiana: where the Republican Party died.

Kasich dropping out of the race is a clear sign that party stalwarts are abandoning ship. Lacking the means to force Trump to leave, they are leaving themselves.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 02:02 PM   #1428
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Kasich dropping out (has it been confirmed by an official statement yet?) was pretty much a given. He has no hopes against Trump for delegates and he doesn't have enough to force a brokered convention. Cruz dropping out pretty much signaled there was no way to keep Trump from not becoming the nominee.
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 02:10 PM   #1429
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
Kasich dropping out (has it been confirmed by an official statement yet?)
He was due to speak in D.C. but ordered his airplane turned around for Ohio. Reports say he plans to announce he is ending his campaign. He will speak at 5pm (a little under 2 hours from now).
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 02:13 PM   #1430
Emi
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 12,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Ahhh ok. I didn't know if it was confirmed since its was (so far) not backed up by an official statement.
__________________
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 02:36 PM   #1431
Blastoise
We deny our creators.
 
Blastoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Reduces construction time
Posts: 3,070
If your primary campaign is dead and you drop out, does anyone care?

Edit: I'm also glad I get to vote in the Beast vs. Smiler election in my lifetime.
__________________
"It does not matter anymore. We cannot change the past. The future will have to do."
-Windham Khatib
Blastoise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 02:47 PM   #1432
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,766
Which is which?
__________________


私のことを消して本気で愛さないで 恋なんてただのゲーム 楽しめばそれでいい
閉ざした心を飾る 派手なドレスも靴も 孤独の友達

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 02:56 PM   #1433
Blastoise
We deny our creators.
 
Blastoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Reduces construction time
Posts: 3,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
Which is which?
It's a legitimately tough question, but I put Hillary as the Beast due to her being the craven, poll-chasing devil we know and Trump as the Smiler since I suspect his only real animating force is the belief that he should be president.

So basically when Trump's family starts dropping suspiciously in sync with his poll numbers I won't be surprised.

Edit: also I ruined the joke and spoiled a large part of Transmetropolitan so whoops
__________________
"It does not matter anymore. We cannot change the past. The future will have to do."
-Windham Khatib

Last edited by Blastoise; 05-04-2016 at 03:04 PM.
Blastoise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 04:25 PM   #1434
Heather
Naga's Voice
 
Heather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: somewhere gay idk
Posts: 3,279
Can we stop for a second to appreciate politics tweet of the year 2k16?
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTheFishGuy View Post
Quoth the Honchkrow (nevermore!).
Fizzy Member Post: Catherine Park
Heather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 04:46 PM   #1435
deoxys
Fog Badge
 
deoxys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,513
Have a sneaking suspicion Kasich was made an offer he couldn't refuse.

I'm just shocked at the sudden change of rhetoric. Before Indiana it was Ted and Kasich staying in no matter what to contest the convention and broker it. After Indiana, they both drop out.

I also expect this to really help Sanders in remaining states with open primaries. A lot of Trump supporters will swing to vote for Bernie now that their man is all but crowned.
deoxys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 05:31 PM   #1436
Miror
Marsh Badge
 
Miror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
I also expect this to really help Sanders in remaining states with open primaries. A lot of Trump supporters will swing to vote for Bernie now that their man is all but crowned.
Would be interesting to see if and how this happens in any of the primaries it can still occur in, it would really boil down to whether they see Hillary or Bernie as a bigger general election threat. They may prefer a Trump v. Clinton match up as they could see it as the better chance for him to win.
__________________
Miror is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 05:34 PM   #1437
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
I also expect this to really help Sanders in remaining states with open primaries. A lot of Trump supporters will swing to vote for Bernie now that their man is all but crowned.
I doubt it. If polls showed that Trump beats Sanders in the 1v1, then sure, but it's the opposite.* There's no point in helping the man who beats your man win his fight. Current polls show Trump losing to both Clinton and Sanders, but the gap with Clinton is smaller, and so if anything a Trump supporter would be likelier to vote for Clinton than for Sanders.

On the flipside, someone who absolutely abhors Trump and doesn't like Clinton would be likelier to vote for Sanders than Clinton since, like I just said, Sanders' victory margin tends to be higher in the 1v1s with Trump than does Clinton's.

* Click on the thumbnails below for full-size images of the latest polls for Clinton vs. all three and Sanders vs. all three.



1. Clinton beats Trump and Cruz while losing to Kasich.

2. Sanders beats all three.

3. Clinton beats Trump by 7 percentage points according to Fox News' own poll.

4. Sanders beats both Trump and Cruz by nearly double the amount Clinton beats them.

You can interpret the data however you like. As I see it, the data shows us:
  • that Trump and Cruz are generally seen as odious by the American people
  • that Clinton is disliked enough for liberal independents to flip over to the Republican side just this once and vote for Kasich (Sound familiar from this very thread?)
  • that Republicans and independents alike prefer Sanders to Clinton
  • the above bullet point coupled with the observation that Clinton is still beating Sanders in the primary race and that she tends to fare better in closed primaries than open ones, all of this tells us that Hillary Clinton's support emanates from registered Democrats
The polls would support Sanders claim to being the "people's pick" given that he is the only candidate who beats all three Republican candidates (pre-May 4) and he is the candidate who defeats Trump more soundly. But at the end of the day neither the DNC nor Hillary Clinton care. This was ever intended to be Hillary Clinton's sweet 16 bus to the White House, and we're going to see that loudly and clearly come California.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 05:45 PM   #1438
Concept
Archbishop of Banterbury
 
Concept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nipple-Hunting with Elsie and Kairne
Posts: 7,030
Send a message via Skype™ to Concept
Cruz dropping out after Indiana is one thing, but both him and Kasich within 24 hours? Something is going on behind the scenes. Either a huge chunk of the more mainstream party has given into the idea that Trump is inevitable (and so Cruz and Kasich have been basically told that even come a contested convention, they've no chance) or the #NeverTrump brigade have something else up their sleeve that benefits from those two getting the hell out of the way. I don't see either just rolling over and backing Trump at this late stage; Kasich has known for ages he's an also-ran and a contested convention is his best chance, nothing's changed for him, and despite Cruz's loss in Indiana he's way too much of an idealogue (and by all indications had a very strong convention floor game prepared) to give up to someone who's been historically pro-LGBT and only tokenly religious.

In other news, Trump has managed to make me agree with David Cameron on something.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTerry
What can the harvest hope for, if not the care of the reaper man?
Concept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 10:09 PM   #1439
Blastoise
We deny our creators.
 
Blastoise's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Reduces construction time
Posts: 3,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concept View Post
Cruz dropping out after Indiana is one thing, but both him and Kasich within 24 hours? Something is going on behind the scenes. Either a huge chunk of the more mainstream party has given into the idea that Trump is inevitable (and so Cruz and Kasich have been basically told that even come a contested convention, they've no chance) or the #NeverTrump brigade have something else up their sleeve that benefits from those two getting the hell out of the way. I don't see either just rolling over and backing Trump at this late stage; Kasich has known for ages he's an also-ran and a contested convention is his best chance, nothing's changed for him
I'm not so sure. Kasich could probably justify staying in as a spoiler with his delegates (and the subsequent influence it would grant) so long as there was one other candidate who could plausibly stand against Trump (if only as a long shot): with Cruz gone and the hilarious gulf between his and Trump's delegate counts his only legitimate chance would involve the party equivalent of a coup d'etat (which would most likely be a pyrrhic victory and sink any Republican hopes for this year anyways).

Quote:
and despite Cruz's loss in Indiana he's way too much of an idealogue (and by all indications had a very strong convention floor game prepared) to give up to someone who's been historically pro-LGBT and only tokenly religious.
Trump's nomination strikes me as probably the strongest indication you can use to mark the religious right's influence in the GOP at an ebb (or an indicator that most primary voters feel enough financial pressure in their personal lives that who's buttfucking who has become a secondary concern at best). Not to mention that (legal, national) momentum is in the pro-LGBT direction at this point, so anyone sticking to their guns against it is either raging against the dying of the light or playing to constituents in the deepest assholes of the South.
__________________
"It does not matter anymore. We cannot change the past. The future will have to do."
-Windham Khatib
Blastoise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2016, 11:30 PM   #1440
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
The Republicans have to acknowledge Trump's voter base. They've tried to pretend they'll go away, but when Trump started to pull in numbers greater than 30% (which was for a long time the limit of his appeal) the continued resistance began to break the illusion of the Republicans as a homogenous entity, with the loudest voices belonging to the evangelicals and elites.

If the party continues to fight Trump, it'll destroy itself. So they've acquiesced, but are unsure of their next move aside from that.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2016, 08:05 PM   #1441
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,766
BORKED
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2016, 09:48 PM   #1442
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
>Narration claims moderation is a personality trait
>Flashes images of Obama and Hillary

oooookay, time to pause and watch the baseball game!
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2016, 06:16 AM   #1443
Rangeet
Foot, meet mouth.
 
Rangeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 4,362
Send a message via MSN to Rangeet Send a message via Skype™ to Rangeet
Obama is a super moderate.
__________________
Spoiler: show
Rangeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2016, 06:29 AM   #1444
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
He's also led a moderate republican administration.
Mercutio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2016, 02:53 PM   #1445
Connor
Flashbacker
 
Connor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 9,068
If that is really how people see being moderate then I am really worried for America. What that spells out to me is that Americans wanting a moderate President want someone who will bend over backwards for a lot of things.

I don't like Trump but that video didn't really sit well for me.
Connor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2016, 07:43 PM   #1446
Jerichi
プラスチック♡ラブ
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connor View Post
If that is really how people see being moderate then I am really worried for America. What that spells out to me is that Americans wanting a moderate President want someone who will bend over backwards for a lot of things.

I don't like Trump but that video didn't really sit well for me.
I don't think people necessarily think this is what a moderate politician is, I just think this is what "moderate politics" has become - someone who is willing to compromise and not going be stubborn-- and unwavering.
__________________


私のことを消して本気で愛さないで 恋なんてただのゲーム 楽しめばそれでいい
閉ざした心を飾る 派手なドレスも靴も 孤独の友達

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2016, 09:50 PM   #1447
RealMrGame10
CAN'T BELIEVE KH3 IS HERE
 
RealMrGame10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Trapped in the Land of Darkness
Posts: 1,574
The problem is that party divisions, at least as the general public sees it, has boiled down to Republicans being the angry Bible thumpers who deny climate change and oppose change at all and Democrats as communist hippies who want to undermine the American way of life by complete subversion. Thus, a moderate is viewed as someone who can balance "progressive" thinking with making concessions to the right wing so that they don't complain. That's how I see it, at least.
__________________

WHEN YOU WALK AWAY

D- Ref on PASBL
(PASBL squad!)
Let's go WILD
I will battle for cheap


lol who knows
RealMrGame10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2016, 10:13 PM   #1448
Doppleganger
我が名は勇者王!
 
Doppleganger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Emina Isle
Posts: 14,198
Send a message via AIM to Doppleganger
If that's the running definition of moderate, it explains why Obama's presidency has largely been one of un-accomplishment.

I feel like we've been down this road before, but since the conservative revolution, the flavour of politics in the US has been to get in power, spam passing laws, get some networking cred and go on a speaking fees or consulting binge. So if you're a "moderate", someone willing to compromise, you're facing an electorate and congress that does not believe in compromise. You will go nowhere.

This is a major shift in ideology from how the US was founded up until the New Deal, I think, although it took some time to be fully mainstream. We still had the veneer of a compromise willingness through Ford.

This article does a bang up job of summarising it.

Europeans, this isn't the American you're looking for.
__________________
あなたの勇気が切り開く未来
ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望
今 信じあえる
あきらめない 心かさね
永遠を抱きしめて
Doppleganger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2016, 10:27 PM   #1449
phoopes
Double Dragon
 
phoopes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,776
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Obama's presidency has largely been one of un-accomplishment
lol
__________________
phoopes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2016, 12:23 AM   #1450
Rangeet
Foot, meet mouth.
 
Rangeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 4,362
Send a message via MSN to Rangeet Send a message via Skype™ to Rangeet
Bring the country out of the worst recession in years, skyrocket LGBT rights, even have a small hand in toning down the war of drugs, manage to introduce at least a checkpoint on the way to single-payer healthcare.

Come on Dopple.
__________________
Spoiler: show
Rangeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Debate


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:24 PM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.