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Old 10-01-2016, 07:54 PM   #1076
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Guardians of the Galaxy.

Is.

So bad.
why?
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Old 10-02-2016, 05:42 AM   #1077
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Guardians of the Galaxy.

Is.

So bad.
At least it's Better.

Than.

Suicide Squad.
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Old 10-10-2016, 05:10 PM   #1078
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Damn it Kush if you hadn't banned yourself I'd rip you to fucking shreds
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Old 11-05-2016, 09:15 AM   #1079
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Doctor Strange is good but doesn't really come close to being great. Needed better action scenes, better villain, somewhat better plot. The visual effects are godlike, though - make sure you see it in 3D, Imax 3D if possible.
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Old 11-05-2016, 10:39 AM   #1080
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Benedict Cumberbatch is fuckin garbage in it.
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Old 11-05-2016, 04:43 PM   #1081
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Enjoyed Dr. Strange. I think with all the concepts they had to add made the plot become quite simple. I liked that the villains were on par with their power throughout and didnt suffer from jumps and drops in power as the movie went on
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Old 11-06-2016, 10:42 AM   #1082
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I recently watched Spirited Away. My first time in over twelve years, and only my third overall. I'd been wanting to buy it on Disney Blu-Ray & DVD for a long time, and an unrelated Amazon purchase finally gave me the excuse to go ahead and get it.

The bad things I remembered about the movie, they are mostly still present but are much, much smaller in degree than I remember them being. The horror of a certain early scene, the narrative itself (plot points, plot progression), the "boringness" compared with the children's classics of the 1980s and 1990s West ...

But the good things I remembered are even better than remembered. And there were a number of good things not remembered, or that my position changed on. The narrative is actually one such example.

Narrative: While I would still hold that it is more confusing than, say, Disney's The Lion King or Pixar's Toy Story, I would no longer call it a "confusing story." Maybe that's just because I know the major plot points already. Maybe that's because I came at the film with twelve years of belief. Whatever the case may have been, I found Spirited Away to be one of Miyazaki's best / easiest to follow stories. There's a single fork halfway through the story but one of its prongs doesn't last too long and the story continues down the remaining prong.

Animation: People make a big deal about this one with this movie, but in 2016 I can appreciate now that they are right to. It really is a pretty incredible feat of animation, this movie. There's such attention to detail in nearly every frame, and yet most of the artwork is only good for a small handful of frames -- it's not uncommon for an animated setting to last less than 5 seconds on screen -- and so it's almost like ... Spirited Away is like the Sistine Chapel of sand castles. The team has put so much work into making this exquisite Renaissance work of art ... that the ocean then carries away but five seconds later.

Music: Good, but surprisingly not as strong a soundtrack as I had thought it would be! For years, I have loved two tracks from this movie and had them with me on portable music players -- "Itsumo Nando Demo", the ending credits theme song, and "Reprise", the song that plays at the climax of the film. It turns out, these are the film's musical legacy. The rest of the soundtrack, while not bad (and while doing its job well!), is unassuming and not particularly noteworthy. But that's okay. Because "Reprise" is the perfect song for that scene ... And "Itsumo Nando Demo" still moves me to tears on occasion, even now, all these years later ...

Themes & Symbolism: This is something I tend to be pretty bad about appreciating or looking for. I'm more of a plot-and-characters kind of guy. For me, they constitute the cake, and things like themes and symbols tend to be the icing. But if 18-year old me was still too young or inexperienced to appreciate what Miyazaki had written with Spirited Away, 32-year old Talon can easily appreciate some of what's been stored.
About growing up: Miyazaki famously provided an interview in which he explained the inspiration for Chihiro (a friend's daughter) and discussed how Spirited Away explores that time in every girl's life where she goes from being a child to being an adult. Knowing that in advance, and thinking on it for over a decade, I came at this film fully ready to spot all of the little hints and signs that that was what was going on here. And there are lots of them. I think the most striking set/category of signs, and the one Miyazaki likely was focused on the most, was Chihiro's timidness/cowardice earlier in the film that gives way to bravery/courage later in the film. She goes from being a girl who is too scared to advance without being pushed or pulled to being a young woman who leads her own way and has others following her or being the ones who are scared.

No-Face: Just what he's about in general. I don't think younger me had had enough experience with Japanese ghost stories to get this guy. He makes a lot more sense to me now.

Identity: Explored in this film through the idea of "true names" and Yubaba's control over people who sign her contracts (from which she takes their names and assigns them new ones). Ideas about identity, about submitting or not submitting to others, about what it means to be your own person, etc etc. Superficially the film places great importance on knowing your true name, but it's a symbol of something deeper that I don't know that I appreciated before.
Play-on words: For about a decade now, I've been self-made aware of how Sen's name is a two-pronged pun:
Chihiro, 千尋, is her real name. Sen, 千, is the name she is given by Yubaba. Western viewers will likely miss the easy wordplay here, but sen is the on'yomi of the character 千 while chi is its kun'yomi. When Yubaba lifts the characters of Chihiro's name off of the page, leaving behind only a 千, it directly communicates to the Japanese viewer what is going on here.

But the second prong of this pun is Chihiro's relationship with Haku. Spoilers:

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As revealed in the film's climax, Haku is the spirit of the river that Chihiro fell in when she was younger. She nearly drowned, but the river carried her to safety -- that is, Haku saved her. This explains why he knew her name at the start of the story. It adds depth to his role as Chihiro's protector during the main events of the film. Haku's name is revealed to be Kohaku, the Kohaku River.

The play-on words here is that while the kun'yomi for "river" is kawa ... the on'yomi for "river" is none other than sen. :> Thus, Chihiro and Kohaku have been inextricably tied together since forever and always.
But that's really been the only pun I've known, the only one I've remembered the basis for. In re-watching the movie, I have newly discovered several other puns. I was delighted to see these, and though I've forgotten some of them already, the most visually striking one I can now share below:
I didn't know enough Japanese when first watching this movie to understand why she might be called "Yubaba". The name becomes obvious though once you know that the Japanese word for hot water, 湯, is yu. She is Yubaba, "the old hag of the bath house."

But the flags Yubaba flies don't say 湯. They say ... what's this? 油? But that's :oil"! Why would she fly a flag that means ... ohhhhhhhh WAIT A SECOND!

湯 kun'yomi is yu
油 on'yomi is yu

Not only does Yubaba also have the whole dual names thing going on ... but, given her nature as a sorceress who ensnares people by stealing their true names, it seems likely that she masks the true spelling of her name (the kun'yomi yu of 湯) with a fake alternate spelling (the on'yomi yu of 油). Think of it as a pen name, if you will. It's still a way for her to place her legally binding seal on her property ... but without divulging the true spelling of her real name.

Maybe.

Or maybe I'm just reading into it too much.
Voice Acting: The last two times I watched this, it was in English. This was my first time watching it with the original Japanese audio. I ................ was not impressed by Chihiro's voice acting. ^^; Like, at all. Just shy of "bad", she's a pretty poor voice actor. I know, I know: she's a kid. But I've perhaps been spoiled by amazing child vocal performances in recent years in the anime scene. (Usagi Drop and Barakamon come to mind.) I would've thought that Studio Ghibli could've gotten someone like those shows' child voice actors. But that's okay. 'Cause if Chihiro was just shy of bad, eeeeeeeeeverybody else was solid. Exactly what you're used to hearing from Japanese animated works. While Disney seems to be awfully proud of their English dub, I can't imagine I will watch it again outside of curiosity.

Subtitles: Uh, yeesh. Surprisingly bad at points I could pick up, and a lot of points I couldn't because holy crap for a kid's movie this script sure is a toughie for me to understand! :\ The official English translation of the end credits theme song is just garbage. (In trying to match the original's poetry, it completely rewrites the lyrics far, far too much. I get that a straight literal translation will lose the poetic sound of the original, but ffs, guys ...!) All of that stated, I was as reliant on the subtitles as most people here would be, and I found them to be okay / okay enough to watch the movie with. It's not the end of the world to watch this subtitled ... but if you can watch it raw, do.

=======================

I enjoyed Spirited Away less than I had hoped to but much, much more than I did previously. I had hoped to enjoy it at like an 11/10 level of masterpieceness. I didn't quite get that. But I did get a movie that was much, much better than the 6 or 7 out of 10 that I remember feeling it was when I was a teenager. The story is decent plot-wise and rich themes-and-symbols-wise. The characters are mostly enjoyable. The music is fine at worst, exquisite at best. The animation is almost always exquisite, only marred by the occasional early-2000s computer-generated-graphics part where Miyazaki is trying out something new.
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Old 11-06-2016, 12:24 PM   #1083
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An excellent write-up. It's good to hear from someone who isn't totally enchanted from Miyazaki's "whimsy" and can break down the film's nuts and bolts. Most Miyazaki critics tend to exaggerate his "old man yells at crowd" indignation toward otaku and that debases their entire argument.

I've know about Miyazaki's take on "growing up" in the film but I've always found it curious. It's almost as if Miyazaki is making a statement for all people watching the film...but if it wasn't evident enough, Chihiro is a special individual. So I can't say I was all that thrilled with such a theme that implies it's for everyone but actually isn't.

You need to take an ordinary person i.e. Takeru in Muv-Luv Alternative to really make a universal statement about growing up stick with the viewer. These exceptionals can't be applied to self all the time.
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Old 11-18-2016, 11:03 PM   #1084
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Lil' Bluey *writes another super-long superhero rant* help i am nerd now

Was recommended to watch Doctor Strange by someone, so I went with my friend today to see it. She's a huge fan of his character from the comics and it's her second time seeing it, whereas I went in with only the knowledge that:

Spoiler: show
There's "repeated dying in a time loop".


That said, here are some of my thoughts (rambly rant follows):

Spoiler: show
Immediately off the bat I formed a dislike for the protagonist (which I felt bad about since I know how much my friend loves him), or rather the way he was presented as: "I'm a quirky asshole genius look at how quirky I am lololol". I understand now why they picked Benedict Cumberbatch, since he basically was Sherlock; or an even more apt comparison would be House, who's based off Sherlock anyway. Seriously, as soon as they showed him rejecting "uninteresting" cases in his car I got the same vibes as both of them. ...It was kinda satisfying to see him crash off the cliff as a result, honestly. *shot*

So okay. He gets his comeuppance, and I hold out hope that he'll be humbled by the experience and improve as the movie goes along. I get that they established him as an asshole to make room for that character growth. The thing is... I never really felt that he did make a conscious decision of progress to become a "hero", so much as it was thrust upon him out of necessity? It's pointed out plainly when he takes the life of one of the mooks while defending himself in the astral plane that he didn't become a doctor out of a desire to "save lives", but in order to fuel his own ego. You'd think he has an epiphany then, but as "The Ancient One" again stresses before she dies, his arrogance still keeps him from achieving true "greatness". Yes, he basically sacrifices his life in order to save the world/become its magical guardian, but I don't feel much sorrow for his loss since all he really had to lose was his pride, especially at that point. (Doesn't help that I didn't feel much chemistry between him and the love interest.)

It's not the same as say, how other superheroes have to balance maintaining their civilian identities and having lives of their own in addition to superheroing. (In fact it rather annoyed me how much they shamed the guy who just wanted to walk again rather than joining "the cause". What's so wrong about wanting to live a normal, peaceful, healthy life? Isn't that what they're fighting for? =3=) I just don't get the feeling that he had to "give up" as much of himself to accept this burden. Yes, he had a successful career and "girlfriend", but like, to draw a contrast with DC's Doctor Fate (I'm sure the comparison has been done to death and I'm honestly not familiar with the character either beyond Young Justice's version, but bear with me here; spoilers for YJ S1):

Spoiler: show
In YJ, the Helmet of Fate is explicitly regarded as like a "cursed object" that completely overtakes the body of the one wearing it. That's why Kent Nelson warns Wally about using it and has to beg Nabu - the spirit within the helmet - to release the boy's consciousness. Ultimately, Zatanna's father Zatara is coerced into putting on the helmet in order to protect his daughter, trading his place and magical ability for hers. From then on he is bound to always be Doctor Fate, and it's heartbreaking to see how the young orphaned Zatanna mourns for what is essentially her father's "death".


Strange is shown to have no loved ones or close connections in his previous "life". He already cast aside the one person who cared for him, and even then it's unclear how much she really "loved" him to begin with, whether she really was just staying by his side out of pity. (Because I sure as hell can't tell what attracted her to him in the first place, beyond him being a brilliant neurosurgeon.) To that end, the ending felt anticlimactic - not so much because the final "fight" was disappointing (I thought the solution, while unorthodox, was somewhat clever and suitable for the story in that regard as well as personally amusing), but because there wasn't really a "resolution". We don't get to see him bid any final goodbyes, struggle with regrets over his decision, just settles comfortably into his place as "Sorcerer Supreme" (to be? idk what he's called now).

I feel sorta cheated in that sense, since it's implied he'll be making future appearances in the cinematic Marvel-verse and I get the sense he may show more further development down the line, but I didn't sign on for a multi-film experience. Which isn't to say I'm not interested in broadening my horizons, but I'm just not sure I'm ready to make that big a commitment yet to another franchise. OTL I do want to invest in the story and characters - just not for the long haul, if that makes sense. ^^; I was seriously hoping this would work by itself as a stand-alone. And it does, just... Not as well as I'd anticipated based on what I heard.

In short: I'm here for suffering, and there simply wasn't enough of it to satisfy me in a short amount of time. *shot*


All that said, there were things I liked about it:

Spoiler: show
I like that Strange is someone who had to work to earn his capacity for using magic, rather than being born with or gaining powers. I liken him to a "magical Batman" - but without Bruce Wayne's brooding, which again is something I surprisingly miss. *shot* His snarky personality is fun though, and I laughed at some of his one-liners/magical hijinks. *casually waits for the inevitable CinemaSins ep to call out the obvious cliché of "eating an apple to make yourself look like more of an asshole"*

The magical duels in themselves were cool - if extremely trippy - to watch. The effects were neat, and I experienced a sort of nostalgic excitement at seeing actual "spells" being cast. Feels like I haven't visited a "mystical realm" like that since Harry Potter.

On that note: The cloak. <3 I so much love the fact that it's sentient, and its actions were utterly adorable. >w< I admittedly got a charge out of seeing it fly out of its case in order to save Strange, knowing he would come floating up a moment later. I'm sure fans already saw it coming a mile away, but I had no idea it would have a mind of its own. XP I do enjoy witnessing the origin of a character's staple attributes like that though, ŕ la Wonder Woman blocking bullets with her bracelets in her trailer.

I just wish we could've seen the cape utilized more. It was honestly my favorite character in the whole thing. (...And when you like an inanimate object more than the lead, then you know you've got a problem. >.>; )


Phew. A lot to say about a movie I went into casually and completely clueless. ^^; I didn't really dislike it per se; I was entertained quite a fair bit. I guess I was just expecting more given the glowing reviews (at least outside of UPN, as I didn't pay attention to this thread before seeing the film). My friend mentioned there was an animated film, which I'm curious to check out now to see how it compares to this one, content and faithfulness-to-canon-wise. Apparently Strange has a "sister" in that one, and his relationship with her plays a much larger role, which sounds promising. Since I really would like to learn more about the character and what appeals to people about him. I can certainly see the potential, I just... don't think the film got it across very well.

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Old 11-20-2016, 12:50 AM   #1085
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I saw Doctor Strange like a week ago. It was actually pretty good and I didn't expect it.
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Old 11-20-2016, 11:31 AM   #1086
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Not too impressed by Fantastic Beasts. While it did manage to capture some of the magic of the Potterverse, I had serious issues with its pacing/editing and a major plot hole. It looks lovely, particularly the beasts (and the characters too :3), but honestly that's not enough for me to really like a movie.
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Old 11-20-2016, 01:39 PM   #1087
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Fuck Eddie Redmayne.
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Old 11-21-2016, 09:18 AM   #1088
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Not too impressed by Fantastic Beasts. While it did manage to capture some of the magic of the Potterverse, I had serious issues with its pacing/editing and a major plot hole. It looks lovely, particularly the beasts (and the characters too :3), but honestly that's not enough for me to really like a movie.
Do you think the source material would have been better served as a documentary-type, like Walking with Dinosaurs?
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Old 11-21-2016, 03:59 PM   #1089
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Not too impressed by Fantastic Beasts. While it did manage to capture some of the magic of the Potterverse, I had serious issues with its pacing/editing and a major plot hole. It looks lovely, particularly the beasts (and the characters too :3), but honestly that's not enough for me to really like a movie.
I really enjoyed it. The best character being Queenie. And the beasts themselves had wonderful designs.

But I'm curious, what major plot hole is this? Care to spoiler-tag it? I'd be interested in reading it xd;
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Old 11-22-2016, 10:49 AM   #1090
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If you wanted to adapt the actual source material then yeah a magical documentary would be great. But also it'd be boring as hell and very few people would watch it xd

There were a few plot holes I found in the movie but the major one is...not so much a plot hole as
Spoiler: show
that I just don't buy Graves being Grindelwald. When Barty Crouch impersonated Moody, he picked an excellent target- an eccentric, paranoid, loner, and made great pains to imitate his every characteristic. I don't see what amounts to an actual head manager of the US Aurors being impersonated.


Some others that annoyed me are
Spoiler: show
since ol' Grindy canonically has the Elder Wand by now, then technically its allegiance should lie with Newt or Tina
and
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the amnesiac potion being somewhat vague as to its effects- how will people forget the murder of a Senator?
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Old 12-22-2016, 08:10 AM   #1091
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Rogue One anyone?

Contains spoilers about a range of aspects of the film.

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I am by no means a hardcore Star Wars fan but I really enjoyed Rogue One.

I think most of what I enjoyed was that it didn't rely upon the nostalgia factor as much as The Force Awakens did, like I can't sit through that scene with Hana Solo and Leia reuniting in TFA without rolling my eyes at the sheer level of fan service. Not to say there isn't fan service in Rogue One, of course there is but there are far fewer fan service-y bits than I was expecting. And who watched that Darth Vader scene and didn't love it?

I thought Felicity Jones carried it all very well. For me the real highlight was K-S20, he really brought the light hearted comedic factor that saves the film from collapsing under the sheer weight of it's bleak tone.

My only major criticism is that it is a little quick pace and claustrophobic in parts, it would have been nice to have a bit more time to explore the non-Jyn characters in a bit more depth and their relationships with each other. Not to mention (similar to Finn rejecting his Storm Troopers programming in TFA) some quick turn arounds on previous strong willed moral viewpoints (I'm looking at you Cassian).

The ending came as no surprise to me as half way through I thought 'wait for this film to work in the time line it means...' and surely, yep. That end scene with Jyn on the beach was really powerful. Highlight.

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Old 12-22-2016, 04:12 PM   #1092
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Rogue One:

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I liked it. RIP literally everyone (even though I kind of figured). That was a pretty bold move on the part of the studio. No major complaints. IMO I liked it a little better than Force Awakens, maybe because Chirrut is awesome. TBH, I liked the characters in Rogue One better than TFA, and was rather disappointed with the result consequently. Rey and Finn are still great but :/.
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Old 01-02-2017, 01:02 AM   #1093
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Rogue One:

The movie is like... 100% fan service. Sorry, but if you knew absolutely nothing about Star Wars and this was somehow your first film in the series, it would make no sense whatsoever.

There's also been a huge fan rage recently over Red Letter Media's review of the film. Which is odd enough because others have made the same criticisms of the film, but gave the movie a positive rating, whereas RLM are kind of leaving their Star Wars fanboyism at the door and giving an honest review based on the film itself rather than the franchise.

Spoiler: show
BORKED
Link


I felt the movie was a good action film, but it's definitely not solid film. And I'm a pretty big Star Wars fanboy, so know when I'm saying that, I'm trying to be as objective as possible.

Full Spoiler Review:
Spoiler: show
The first half of the film is very weak. Pretty much everything prior to the scene where they steal the shuttle to sneak onto the shielded planet was boring or uninteresting.

Saw Gerrera had like 3 scenes. And the film tells us he's a terrorist, but doesn't really do anything with that. Which was weird because when he first appeared, I had thought we would see him as almost a mirror for Vader. Whereas we usually see the Empire as the dark side (due to the Sith involvement), we typically associated the Rebellion with the light, but Saw kind of breaks that theme. He was what happened when a Rebel cell fell to the dark side and did terrible things in the name of freedom from tyranny. Sadly, none of that really pans out. The worst thing he did was release the tentacles on Bohdi Rook and he didn't even have permanent damage, so... okay. He's bad because everyone said he's bad?

And this brings up the other problem: Cassian Andor. The first scene we see him in, he guns down a crippled informant because he doesn't want the information to leak back to the Empire. It was like a seed of darkness placed on his character. Cassian was willing to do anything to see the Rebellion succeed, but there's no real payoff for this. This contradicts his conflicted feelings with assassinating Galen Erso. Like, why didn't he want to kill this guy? It seemed like the informant in the street was someone he at least somewhat knew, but Galen is basically a stranger. Was it because of Jyn for some reason? What there some kind of dropped romance story line?

Jyn, Chirrut, and Baze are all very weak characters. Jyn is apathetic to the Rebellion but then randomly switches to being all in, despite the Rebellion ordering her father's death and their bombing run that would ultimately kill him. There's pretty much no backstory for Chirrut and Baze besides being Guardians of the Whills, but even that is glanced over. Sure they were all pretty cool, but they're basically nobodies.

I didn't really notice the Grand Moff Tarkin CG face, but I blame the 3D glasses. What did bother me was Darth Vader. Yes, the voice is James Earl Jones and the costume is more matte and dull like it is in the original Star Wars, but the actor in the costume didn't look like Vader. The way he walked, it wasn't intimidating or give us a feeling that he's large or powerful or heavy. He actually looked like he was strutting down the catwalk. I don't know, the nuances of the walk just bothered me immediately and it took me out of it.

Once the action started though, it's an amazing action film. Seeing the Rebellion basically go all-in and try and back up the group was exciting and fun. X-Wings and Y-Wings and the singular VCX-100 and the Hammerhead Cruisers and everything like that, it was all fanboygasm inducing stuff.
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Old 01-02-2017, 01:43 AM   #1094
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There's also been a huge fan rage recently over Red Letter Media's review of the film. Which is odd enough because others have made the same criticisms of the film, but gave the movie a positive rating, whereas RLM are kind of leaving their Star Wars fanboyism at the door and giving an honest review based on the film itself rather than the franchise.
Only in the last 72 hours, I've come to discover that there is a new wave of anti-RLM sentiment sweeping YouTube. I have no idea why, but:
  1. the netizens comprising this wave seem to be those born after 1995 as well as others who watched the prequels before watching the original films
  2. they espouse a viewpoint that the prequels are not only not objectively bad but that they are good, even better than average
  3. they believe that RLM has poisoned people against the prequels
  4. they don't credit RLM with any cinema analytical prowess; in fact, they spit on his name, suggest he has no idea what he's talking about, etc.
  5. they seem to suggest that if you have a problem with the prequels, then you're just another RLM fanbot who can't think for himself
It's very strange, given how much love RLM has enjoyed over the past six or so years (since his review of The Phantom Menace first went viral on YouTube). And leading the charge, of all people, seems to be none other than ... the CinemaSins guy. Yeah, I know what you're thinking. I'm thinking it too. A combination of "Who? " and "Why!? " CinemaSins, that sellout who years ago would make videos pointing out the 30-50 cinematic booboos in a movie and who has since degraded into nothing more than a career YouTuber who takes even perfectly good movies and just "DING!" ding dings them for "sins" every time an actress bats her eyelashes , apparently he's decided to annoint himself the prequel apologists' champion and to lead the way with a new channel he's made, called CinemaWins, in which he takes the prequels, Sins-style, dinging his dinger every 3 seconds -- only this time it's to claim how good something is rather than how awful it is.


It's the damnedest thing. I have no idea where it came from. Like I said, I only learned of it (from the first-hand experience of tripping upon the video above) in the last 72 hours. Didn't even know the anti-RLM movement was a thing before then. And I still don't get it. Everyone knows he forced it a little with his Attack of the Clones review and forced it even harder with Revenge of the Sith. Everyone knows that Revenge of the Sith, while still part of the "shitty Star Wars prequel" anthology, is the best of the bunch and is even, really, not all that bad a movie. (It has many hallmarks of a bad movie, don't get me wrong. But who among us would seriously consider Revenge of the Sith to be a 1/10 or a 2/10? Whereas Phantom Menace ... ) But RLM proved his cinema analysis chops with that first review he did of The Phantom Menace. People were saying, "Man, this needs to be shown in every cinema studies course in every university in America." And I agree. I agreed back then, I still agree now. And so I just don't get it. How did we go from "GIVE THIS MAN AN HONORARY DEGREE!" to "DOWN WITH RED LETTER MEDIA!"?
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Old 01-02-2017, 02:14 AM   #1095
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People have criticized their Half-in-the-Bag movie reviews, but the bulk of anti-RLM videos have been recently been about their review of Rogue One.

Prequel Praising kind of started a bit after Disney bought LucasFilms, you can probably guess how that started. RLM mentions this in their Plinkett Review of Star Wars The Force Awakens.
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Old 01-02-2017, 08:21 AM   #1096
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How did that start? Disney hasn't really pimped the prequels at all. And, while the movies are bad, stuff like the Clone Wars cartoon iterations have coloured opinions of how good the movies were.

Tie Fighter got me really excited about A New Hope and it briefly became my favourite SW movie, but as an adult I see the dialogue as vague and riddled with silliness. I would expect CW fans to have gone through something similar.
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Old 01-02-2017, 01:06 PM   #1097
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Disney sends out checks to bloggers to write why they think the prequels are good.

If you Google Star Wars Prequels, you eventually hit "Top 10 prequel things" or various articles about how great they were. And anything shy of lobotomizing myself, I can't fathom how I could say any of the prequels were actually good. So unless everyone suddenly has gone hipster and now thinks terrible films are great, I think Disney sent out some bags of cash.
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Old 01-02-2017, 01:40 PM   #1098
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Disney sends out checks to bloggers to write why they think the prequels are good.

If you Google Star Wars Prequels, you eventually hit "Top 10 prequel things" or various articles about how great they were. And anything shy of lobotomizing myself, I can't fathom how I could say any of the prequels were actually good. So unless everyone suddenly has gone hipster and now thinks terrible films are great, I think Disney sent out some bags of cash.
My take require less insidiousness from Disney.

I think what a lot of it is is, it's typical late teenage behavior. You have these teens, ages 15-19, and young adults adjacent to that, ages 20-?? (it cuts off for different people), who:
  • grew up with the prequels
  • in typically teenage fashion, reject what their elders say and go for the counter position because YEAH I'M SO WISE
It's the two of those together that solicits this phenomenon we're now observing. In the '00s, we knew the prequels were bad but few of us could articulate as well as RLM has why they were so bad, why they failed as films. In the early '10s, RLM comes along and de facto theater majors it up with his analysis of why The Phantom Menace, and later the other two Star Wars prequels, sucked so bad. During this time period, the 2017 apologists for the prequels would've only been between the ages of say 6 and 10. They weren't ready to speak out as they are now. But fast forward to 2017 and they are ready. They've an adult enough brain to be able to reason things out like an adult would and to be heard online, but a teen enough brain that ... well ... frankly, they're being obstinate and stupid teenagers. -_-; "Actually, The Phantom Menace was a pretty good film." Actually, you've shit for brains and TPM was a terrible movie, Star Wars or otherwise.

I don't think Walt Disney Corp. is sending out paychecks to bloggers to write glowing reviews of the prequels. I think the glowing reviews are being written willingly by passionate people who want to voice their opinions on the matter, particularly because they are so contrary to the commonly-held opinion that's voiced on the Internet. When you hold an unpopular opinion, IRL you keep quiet but online it's been the habit for the past 30 years that people speak up. It's why you have so many Internet atheists, for one example out of many. On the one hand, online or offline, humans are social creatures programmed to not want to rock the boat (i.e. to not want to do something which will get them ostracized). But on the other hand, offline or online, people when they feel like birds in a cage, they want nothing more in the world but to be free of the cage and sing to their heart's content. So when you give all these prequel fans the Internet, and now they're old enough to blog and be heard by others, then yeah -- they're going to do it.

I just find it weird that RLM is getting so much hate. It's one thing to be a stereotypically "I'm so edgy " teenager who makes the rest of us embarrassed for you, but it's quite another to be like, "RLM is an idiot and an asshole and nothing he says is right." It's like ... like they take it very personally that he's given a voice to millions of people's thoughts about why the prequels sucked so bad. They feel like he's poisoned us against the films, that we might not hold the opinions we hold today if he'd never come along. It's very strange to me, and I really wish I could take these people back to 2007, 2008, a time shortly before RLM showed up ... And I could show them, "Look -- even now, no one likes the prequels. No one except for a few tasteless fools and a handful of fans in denial. The rest of us are all ready to admit, the prequels are nowhere near as good as even the very worst of the original trilogy," whether you hold that to be A New Hope or Return of the Jedi.
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Old 01-02-2017, 03:42 PM   #1099
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I watched both the Plinkett Rogue One and "Half in a Bag" review of Rogue One.

The videos actually parallel one of the problems with Rogue One well: you need context to really get it. The original TPM dissection was seven parts and systematic, each like 30 minutes long; the R1 review is 7 minutes and just casually dumps on it by calling it an abject failure. You need familiarity with how RLM thinks to really find this acceptable.

I mean, I found the editing scene with A New Hope effective visual presentation. But just like how an angry teen isn't one to listen to reason I don't think it would go over well after someone plants BIG RED X's over the qualities a good R1 film should have.

The "Half in a Bag" review was a lot more palatable, but I can see why people would be upset with it. Three white guys insulting the R1-loving audience at every turn, with scalding ad hominems at that, along with natural discussion about the film's flaws in a fairly spoiler-free conversation.
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:37 AM   #1100
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In a discussion about green screen technologies, this conversation arose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrewAttackThis
The directing [in the Star Wars prequels] was bad, the editing was bad, the writing was bad, the characters were bad. There's some good stuff in there but yeah those movies missed the mark.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgelord_of_Tomorrow
The sad thing is that George was very aware of his weakness in those areas... but the people who had been there to handle that for the original trilogy had moved on or died, and the people he tried to bring on board for the prequels turned him down.

Have to wonder what it would have been like if Zemeckis or Spielberg had taken him up on the offer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KristinnK
Gary Kurtz was the real magic ingredient. He had worked with Lucas on American Graffiti, and was the producer on both Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, having his hand in basically everything, from story to directing to post-production. Ultimately Lucas got rid of him and canned the story outline they had for Return of the Jedi:

Quote:
“We had an outline and George changed everything in it," Kurtz said. “Instead of bittersweet and poignant he [Lucas] wanted a euphoric ending with everybody happy. The original idea was that they would recover [the kidnapped] Han Solo in the early part of the story and that he would then die in the middle part of the film in a raid on an Imperial base. George then decided he didn’t want any of the principals killed. By that time there were really big toy sales and that was a reason.”

The discussed ending of the film that Kurtz favored presented the rebel forces in tatters, Leia grappling with her new duties as queen and Luke walking off alone “like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns,” as Kurtz put it.
Source

RotJ was always the black sheep of the original trilogy, and this is the reason why. The nuanced storytelling disappeared long before the prequels. Whenever anyone praises Lucas for at least having come up with Star Wars they should remember that the best film (Empire) was the one where he basically wasn't evolved at all. His only credit is 'story by George Lucas', meaning he hammered out the general direction of the plot, again with a lot of help from Gary Kurtz. I suspect it was more the latter than the former.

Edit: When you think about it, The Force Awakens is actually more of a sequel to the original story idea to RotJ as opposed to the film that was made. "Rebel forces in tatters" - in TFA it is the First Order rather than the Rebellion that is the dominant force as a pseudo-Empire even though the rebels won the war in the RotJ film. "Leia grappling with her new duties as queen" - Leia is the queen in both the original story idea and in the film, but if the rebels had won there definitely would have been less struggling, as a opposed to the tired Leia in TFA that is still fighting from the fringes. "Luke walking off alone “like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns,” " - This is basically exactly how Luke returns to us in TFA.
I thought that was really interesting -- not just the reminder about Return of the Jedi's original script, but the similarities between how that script ends and how The Force Awakens opens.
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