American Politics

[Muyotwo]

I'm referring more to the hope that both Trump and Cruz will continue to run for president no matter which gets the nomination, just to ensure a democratic victory.

[Princess Ana]

Cruz has pretty much stated that he wouldn't do that. I mean it was mostly "let us not have a brokered convention please."

[deoxys]

Yikes...

[Doppleganger]

Originally Posted by Muyotwo

I'm referring more to the hope that both Trump and Cruz will continue to run for president no matter which gets the nomination, just to ensure a democratic victory.

The Republican's best chance of a victory is Trump, so that guarantee is hardly assured. If anything, from the hostility we've seen toward the establishment Republicans, it's likely that only conservatives would come out to vote establishment. Which means Hillary wins by default.

I read something from one of the conservative think-tanks, and it basically said that Republicans will always lose to Democrats because the Democratic Party is bigger, and the only way they can consistently win office is to be ideologically pure (conservative) and be extremely militant about voting and voter turnout. Superior organization allows them to beat an outright bigger mob.

This discussion really has me wanting to re-evalucate the 2012 election. Did the Republicans even stand a chance in that one?

[satosere]

Look you guys are all about hating on the Republicans and I am trying so hard not to go wacko.

[Rangeet]

Because the Republicans are a joke. There is not and has not been for several decades now a single Republican candidate who should have won the Presidency. The Republican party runs on being socially regressive. That's literally all it's been running on for the last three campaigns. The current Republican candidates for President are all, to put it mildly, terrible human beings with the sole exception of Kasich, who is borderline as has been discussed multiple times in this thread.

[Heather]

Yeah sato the Republican Party stands for the rich getting richer and social regression. You can't expect me to like the Republican Party when the two main candidates are Donald Trump, the blustering xenophobic asshat, and Ted Cruz the transphobic nightmare. The latter is especially dangerous in my case and in those of others here, and the ascent of such a person to the Oval Office would be frightening. Before that, we just had good old Dubya, who started a completely unjustified conflict on arguably false pretenses (we found none of the supposed weapons in Iraq) which is pretty much responsible for how much the Middle Eaat hates us-the militants hate us one way, the civilians just want us to go home already. Honestly, we screwed a good deal of the stability in that region. Now, say what you will about Obama not getting us out, but remember that Dubya was the one running that for somewhere around seven years, driving us in wayyy too deep to simply back out.

[Mercutio]

There's no need to be quite so aggressive about hating on Republicans. Not everyone is a Democrat.

[Rangeet]

I'll stop getting aggressive about the Republicans the day they stop pulling back social rights in America as much as they can keep doing so. The day I can think about a Republican President and not either laugh or get really angry depending on my mood.

[Heather]

Originally Posted by Rangeetsuper

I'll stop getting aggressive about the Republicans the day they stop pulling back social rights in America as much as they can keep doing so. The day I can think about a Republican President and not either laugh or get really angry depending on my mood.

This essentially sums up my thoughts about the topic.

[Doppleganger]

George H.W. Bush is under-rated.

[deoxys]

While I don't take nearly as an aggressive stance on Republicans, it's hard to not feel incredibly put off by them as a whole when the majority of them stand for the following:

- Anti-Climate Change (don't believe in it or are paid off by oil companies)
- Anti-Environmental protection
- Anti-LGBT rights
- Pro-Obstructionism (unwillingness to work across the aisle)
- Pro-Trickle down economics
- Much more willing to beat the drums of war


I hate grouping them all together like that but it's not inaccurate anymore. While certainly not all of them believe these things, it isn't wrong to associate the Republican party with these beliefs. And a lot of what they believe is designed to appeal to and service the Bible Belt and the deeply conservative Christians that live within it. A lot of these beliefs do reflect in policy and legislation and play key roles in being successfully elected.

I do understand and in some cases agree with fiscally conservative and small-government policies, but the republican party is a shell of its former self. A lot of the things believed by the majority is simply intolerant and dangerous thinking. Democrats are by far and away not perfect either, not by a long shot, but at least the majority of them understand the threats scientists are telling us climate change could present if we do not act, as well as willing to defend basic human rights without letting religious beliefs get in the way.

This is why there is such a large divide right now in politics. If the Republican party were willing to be more open minded on certain issues and be willing to work across the aisle instead of staunchly objecting to working with democrats and Obama, for a majority of them anyway *glares at Mitch McConnell*, then I would probably have no issue leaning back to the right to some degree. But the further right the republicans continue to go, the further left I automatically become, and I'm not even trying to.

[Doppleganger]

Originally Posted by deoxys

Democrats are by far and away not perfect either, not by a long shot, but at least the majority of them understand the threats scientists are telling us climate change could present if we do not act, as well as willing to defend basic human rights without letting religious beliefs get in the way.

Most Democrats don't have college degrees, so I wouldn't make this claim.

I understand the jist of what you're saying, but you're really using Republican as a proxy for "conservative". Before Barry Goldwater, mainstream Republican meant Hillary Clinton. Starting with Goldwater, the Republican Party was able to coalesce several non-contradictory ideologies, including the evangelical Christians, top 1%, and war hawks into a voting machine. They used new forms of communication (publications, talk radio, television and grassroots proselytizing) to unite the group nationally.

A smaller subset of Americans held an over-representation in politics due to their strong political mobilisation.

The advent of the internet is really the smoking gun for Republicans as it gives younger generations (who are far and away more liberal than conservative) a similar ability to mobilise and control information, but the problem with liberals is their views are going to be contradictory. So while they can deny conservatives, they won't be able to elect progressive Democrats who will actually enact change.

It's just a pallet swap basically where the people in power are going to reap the benefits. Basically pillage the system, which was what happened in the Bush Administration.

Really, Dubya might not be the worst president, but he's the exact opposite of Obama in terms of resources. Obama has virtually accomplished nothing in 8 years as president beyond acting as the personification of opium, because his ability to act is hindered. Bush had tons of leg room and pushed a lot of policy through, but most of it was ineffective, misguided, or harmful.

Bush is like the ideal evangelical president, it's the thought that counts, guys! Hence why, even if technically I am closer to Ted Cruz ideologically than any other candidate, I'm not voting for the guy because I don't care about the thought. Git 'er done, let's roll, let god sort 'em out, whatever. I just care about the bottom line.

[deoxys]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Most Democrats don't have college degrees, so I wouldn't make this claim.

Source? I'm sure all of the bible belt republicans living in trailer parks do, though, yes?

[Doppleganger]

Originally Posted by deoxys

Source? I'm sure all of the bible belt republicans living in trailer parks do, though, yes?

VGM.

Do most Americans have college degrees?

[deoxys]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

VGM.

Do most Americans have college degrees?

I'm not sure what the point of your initial comment was unless you were trying to make a wisecrack and didn't make that clear. It's not exactly easy to tell.

[Doppleganger]

I'm disoriented right now for several reasons, so let me offer an apology and it seems I misinterpreted what you said.

I won't even make an attempt to back-track in this state.

[satosere]

Ok I'm done with this thread because I am getting very frustrated with everyone. Sorry if that sounds weird, but it's true.

And I'm only 13. I'm obviously not a voter yet, so my opinion(s) don't really make a difference. But I still hold my ground on what I believe and what I like. (Loves Cruz and thinks (and knows) that Trump is a arrogant clown)

[Heather]

No one is saying you're wrong for being a Cruz supporter. Even if a Cruz presidency has some dangerous potential to ruin my life as a transgender person, no one is going to tell you you're wrong for being a Cruz supporter. They may give you reasons they do not agree with you, but if they're going ad hominem to you specifically rather than to the candidate you support, that's a problem.

Also, dispose of that "my opinion doesn't matter" mentality because that's what makes so many people not vote and it's a problem and I think it to be vitally important that you grow into a strong willingness to do your civic duty in voting.

[deoxys]

Originally Posted by satosere

Ok I'm done with this thread because I am getting very frustrated with everyone. Sorry if that sounds weird, but it's true.

And I'm only 13. I'm obviously not a voter yet, so my opinion(s) don't really make a difference. But I still hold my ground on what I believe and what I like. (Loves Cruz and thinks (and knows) that Trump is a arrogant clown)

I thought you were from Sweden or something

[satosere]

I am from there but my father's job is in Augusta Maine, so we moved to America when I was 8. But all of my extended family is back in Sweden so we go there lots. (Yes I am an American citizen)

[Rangeet]

Originally Posted by satosere

Ok I'm done with this thread because I am getting very frustrated with everyone.

Welcome to American Politics.

Sato, I want you to, not now, but at some point when you're not so frustrated, think about how many of your views come from you and how many come simply from the fact that your parents hold them.

[Heather]

Originally Posted by Rangeetsuper

Welcome to American Politics.

Sato, I want you to, not now, but at some point when you're not so frustrated, think about how many of your views come from you and how many come simply from the fact that your parents hold them.

This is important too. When I was much younger I was a huge Republican because my dad was right leaning and always watched Fox News, so I had no other source. Now I shiver when I think of how I once actually wanted Dubya reelected.

[satosere]

But I'm not just a Republican because my parents are.

[Slash]

Then why? Do you agree with the homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, oppressive, sexist, racist, F-in-economics, religiously-intolerant, climate change-denying platform of the Republican party? Is that really the party you want to affiliate with?