10-23-2010, 01:38 PM | #276 | |
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Since Kokoro was so handicapped by herself, she had to rely on the group's strength to survive. I think that made it eased in the desire to cooperate. In comparison, I think most of the Ever17 cast could have survived on their own for the week, but perhaps not escape in time. Something I liked about Ever17 was how everyone was smart. Not just knowledgeable, they were resourceful and cooperative. There was great chemistry among the cast (due to similarity in age?) that lead to greater accomplishment than similar groups. Remember11's party would have been doomed without Yomogi, while I got the impression Ever17's group might have been able to compensate a little without Sora. Sora made things too easy at times, but that managed to defuse a lot of major problems. Other times she was indispensable, like with the blackout, but it is possible the group could have worked out of that.
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10-23-2010, 03:46 PM | #277 |
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Completed Sora's path. Gah, where's the epilogue? Did Takeshi not escape this time either? >.<; Man, he gets the short end of the stick compared to Kid.
I see now where the Tsugumi/Sora divide stems from. Had I played Sora's path first, I probably would've hated Tsugumi as much as Dopple. Having learned Tsugumi's circumstances first, I felt horrible for being cruel to her during Sora's story, despite what happened in the Qualle. As for the romantic aspect of the story... Hm, I'm not really sure what my feelings on "virtual" love are. I liked the reference to the story of Pygmalion since it's one of my favorite Greek myths, but at the same time I think it's a tragically dumb tale. I was happy to "voice disagreement" in response to the version You told during Tsugumi's path, but was loathe to nod my head and agree with the "happy ending" for Sora's sake (at least I assume those choices matter). Pining over an artificial body who can't think, feel, or speak... Is not love. It's just an unhealthy obsession. Clearly, Takeshi's and Sora's relationship is on a completely different level. Which is why I enjoyed the Pygmalion allusion, but hated the manner in which it was applied to Takeshi x Sora. Disregarding that, I still have conflicting feelings about AI romance... Well, I'll set those aside. I liked the story, and Sora herself. Though she creeped me out a little at times compared to her roles in other paths. o.O; Anyway, just need to clear Sara's path now, right? And then I gain access to Coco's?
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10-23-2010, 04:38 PM | #278 |
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That's correct. Time to find out what the backstory is of the superficially least impressive member of the cast, Matsunaga Sara. Though once you find it out, you might see Sara in a more wholesome light. I did.
You're really rushing through this, though. Tell us what you've observed! Tell us about any oddities or inconsistencies you may have noticed. The game is much more subtle than Remember11 but packs just as many punches if not more. For example, to make the Remember11 comparison ... Remember11 spoilers: Spoiler: show There are similar clues which become obvious, or at least have the chance to become obvious, once you've seen as much of the game as you have. But you're not mentioning any of them! ^^; Let us know what's going through your mind! For starters ...
There are other questions I could ask you, too -- questions I asked when I was at your stage -- but they're much too leading and could potentially spoil the ending for you if I lead you into them. It's safest if you ask them yourself, so until you do, I can't even bring them up. But there are lots of other questions you should have if you've been keeping your eyes wide open.
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10-23-2010, 05:18 PM | #279 |
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Well, I do go back and follow up on (mostly your) old posts once I finish a path. So I'm considering the parallel worlds theory. And I know the statues are important, but I haven't been able to discern anything just by looking at them. I'm guessing the directions they point in mean something though.
As I play as Kid again, I remember one thing that stuck out at me was that both Kid and Takeshi thought that the other was late to show up to a meeting spot. This reminded me of something in the Haruhi novels that has to do with time. In fact, a lot of happenings so far felt similar to this story. Haruhi Book VI spoilers (Sorry, Talon =/) Spoiler: show And Tsugumi just said something about "throw[ing] LeMU off its axis." Could she be referring to the time or dimensional axis? As for Remember11... Spoiler: show
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10-23-2010, 06:47 PM | #280 |
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I think she just meant the physical axis. I don't remember the context of the line nor its exact wording, but I think she meant that LeMU (a roughly vertical structure), if thrown off its axis, would then tumble down into the ocean depths in no time flat.
Also: reading my old posts is painful. What an asshole! "I do not need you to tell me," I tell Doppel in one post about how to read Japanese names. Jesus H. Christ, Talon. He knows you speak the language, he's just trying to be friendly and share some of his own insight. Jeezus. >_<;
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Last edited by Talon87; 10-23-2010 at 06:51 PM. |
10-23-2010, 06:55 PM | #281 |
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Aw. Nevermind then. ^^;
Just found out that Kid is indeed Sara's brother... Although I get the feeling "cloning" may play a role in this. We shall see... Edit- Gah! Another Bad End. >.<; Edit2- Phew. Easily reparable.
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Last edited by lilboocorsola; 10-23-2010 at 07:07 PM. |
10-23-2010, 07:28 PM | #282 |
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Well, you can read 'em. I can't stop you from reading them, lol; and the me who wrote them in 2007 certainly wanted them to be read and replied to. I just hope you won't read them and judge my character by them. ^^;
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10-23-2010, 08:11 PM | #283 | |
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Snow Mountain Syndrome plays heavily into Infinity works, I won't say if it's comparable to Ever17 though.
Sara is indeed the least impressive of the heroines, but I think the big reason why is she's not exactly romance material. ^^; I liked her ending the best of Kid's two, though, it was suitably dramatic and the promise the two make in the epilogue extremely powerful, about as powerful as it could have been given their relationship. Quote:
Spoiler: show
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10-23-2010, 08:46 PM | #284 |
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@Talon: Don't worry about it. I can tell you've changed. ^^
@Dopple: I also really liked Sara's tale. Maybe because I'm not romantically invested in any characters from the beginning (I feel bad for any players who were hoping to hit it off with Sara). But it really did deepen my sympathy for her and Kid. I'd love to adopt them both. =< And I agree that Sora's different from a statue, that's precisely what bothered me about the Pygmalion comparison. When you put Takeshi's decision to deny the copy and stay with the original in a worldly sense... You're right, it is really deep and tragic. It's like asking if you can replace a dead loved one with a clone, or another body implanted with the same memories. Drawing back on Remember11, I think I'm starting to grasp some of the central themes in the Infinity series... Just what is "self"? What makes us who we are? Our memories? And in Sora's case - what makes us "human"? With those thoughts in mind... I'm about to embark on Coco's path. Wish me luck! Edit- Hm... So I've come across some differences in this version of events, such as everyone confronting Tsugumi in the security room. I'm surprised Kid's subsequent conversations with You, Sara, and Tsugumi weren't edited so it still seems like only You and Sara talked to Tsugumi. Although Sora's conversation turned out to be slightly different...
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Last edited by lilboocorsola; 10-23-2010 at 09:33 PM. |
10-23-2010, 09:41 PM | #285 |
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Play as Kid on Coco's Path. Do not play as Takeshi.
... Ah, spoke too soon. Sorry.
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ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望 今 信じあえる あきらめない 心かさね 永遠を抱きしめて Last edited by Doppleganger; 10-23-2010 at 09:43 PM. |
10-23-2010, 09:44 PM | #286 |
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I know, I read your advice to Talon and BBB. I'm playing as Kid right now (see above edit).
I'm starting to wonder if the pool was actually some kind of dimensional portal or something... XP Question: If both Kid and Sara have infrared vision, how come Sara didn't try to stop You from opening the door to the Generator Room?
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Last edited by lilboocorsola; 10-23-2010 at 09:50 PM. |
10-23-2010, 09:51 PM | #287 | |
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Quote:
Here's a baby spoiler example intended to help you out. If you want to feel proud of yourself for figuring it out on your own, then don't click. Otherwise, click. It's a pretty small spoiler, but it's admittedly fun to figure it out for one's self. Spoiler: show Things like this abound in what I'll refer to as "pre-Path 5." And it'll be up to you to catch them, deal with them accordingly, and enjoy the sometimes hilarious and sometimes exhilarating consequences of your prescience. EDIT: if you're already to the generator room bit, then it sounds like you're way passed what I mentioned in the spoiler box. So go ahead and click on it and read its full contents.
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10-23-2010, 09:55 PM | #288 |
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I'm pretty sure I've made all the right choices so far. I always checked the others just to be sure. Will the normal responses always elicit the standard text? If so, I can just skip them, right?
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10-23-2010, 09:57 PM | #289 | |
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Regardless, Sara would not want Nakkyu-senpai to get burned. If she failed to warn You in time, it may simply be because she was preoccupied with other thoughts; or that Kid beat her to it; or something.
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10-23-2010, 10:02 PM | #290 | |
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IIRC one of the last pre-Path 5 choices you'll have to make involves Sora's moon analogy when she asks you to close your eyes in the water-filled hallway while you guys are playing hide and seek or Kick the Can or something. Although I don't remember that scene being any different from how it was on Sora's Path proper, iirc Doppel had told me back in the day that that would be one of the final important questions I'd have to answer correctly in order to dock onto Path 5. So I guess I would say to you that if you get passed that scene tonight or tomorrow, then check back in with Doppel and he'll be more than able to let you know whether you've docked or not. Or, you can verify it for yourself if you press further on and start uncovering a bunch of things which you know you've never seen before. Like when Kid-- OW! *Doppel smacks Talon* But all I said was when Kid-- OW! *Doppel smacks Talon* You'll know when you get there.
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10-23-2010, 10:04 PM | #291 |
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Well, I just came across a completely new choice where I can tell the others about seeing Coco outside the Generator Room or not. I decided to tell them, and now I feel like Kokoro again. XP Yay for acting like a lunatic!
Edit- You's description of the third eye: "Clairvoyance, telescopic vision, ghost sense, the gift of the prophet, the power of seeing the past or future..." So does Kid really have the third eye? Hm...
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Last edited by lilboocorsola; 10-23-2010 at 10:11 PM. |
10-23-2010, 10:34 PM | #292 |
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OH SNAP! Kid saw his reflection in the mirror. o.O;
I had a feeling something like this might happen... Another personality transfer? There's probably more to it than that...
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10-23-2010, 10:39 PM | #293 |
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That was it!
That scene, I mean. And now the shit has officially hit the fan. Good shit, mind you. And more shit will just keep coming. This is the epic tip of the iceberg. Enjoy the ride.
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10-24-2010, 12:33 AM | #294 |
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The mirror scene was the first of many bricks to be had in Coco's Path. 'twas part of the reason I was flipping out in Remember11 at getting to see Kokoro's face so early, as well as see her (and Satoru's) sprite several times when they talked.
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10-24-2010, 03:19 AM | #295 |
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Finished. Ever17.
The ending was gorgeous. A bit unbelievable at times (understatement), but the final CG truly made everything feel worth it. Dopple, I understand now why you recommended this game for its inspirational message - and why you were curious to hear a "lady's impression" of it. On that note, I certainly did not mind being called "oniichan". I think of it as how God is referred to as "Him", but God probably doesn't have a gender. (I'm not religious or comparing myself to God, but that's the closest analogy I can think of at this hour.) I was sort of spoiled on the fact that Blick Winkel = the player, actually - or rather I just knew that the player is involved in the game somehow. So that didn't really come as a shock. ^^; Still, I went into the game with the dark notion that "summoning" Blick was a bad thing, based on experiences with Remember11 and the demonic connotations of the word. So I was very pleasantly surprised when it turned out our purpose, as Blick Winkel, was indeed to rescue everyone from the abyss. Mm... I should wrap this up and go to sleep now, if I want to wake up and have time to actually study. ^^; So I'll add more detailed comments later. At any rate, I still can't shake this crazy feeling of déja vu that's plagued me through the entire game... Somewhere, in a past life or another world, I feel like I've seen this story before. x.X Agh, it's driving me nuts.
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10-24-2010, 04:57 PM | #296 | |
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10-24-2010, 06:20 PM | #297 | |
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10-26-2010, 05:09 PM | #298 |
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A couple questions I've been meaning to ask:
1) What exactly happened during Kick-the-Can? Dopple, you said you had a theory about this, but I haven't been able to find it in the thread. Care to explain? 2) How come the life reading was always "1" at the end? It shouldn't have picked up Coco and Takeshi since they were cryogenically frozen, right? Blick Winkel shouldn't count either since he's just a "perspective". So then who/what is this mysterious entity?
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Last edited by lilboocorsola; 10-26-2010 at 05:58 PM. |
10-26-2010, 06:24 PM | #299 | |
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Spoiler: show I dunno. It just seems like something which was there to intrigue the player but which was ultimately an artifact from the drafting days of the game's design. It feels like an element which belonged to an explanation for Blick or Leiblich which they wanted to pursue but which they ultimately didn't, yet they forgot to take that aspect of the Kick the Can game out. (Hey Doppel, I just noticed something. I'm sure this is totally unintended, but check this out: Lie + Blick (Winkel) = Leiblich. Lieblich lies to Blick! Too bad "Lieblich" is "LEE-blick" and not "LIE-blick", being as it's German and all. ) As for the life form readings question ... Spoiler: show
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