Sleep Study!

[Talon87]

Prelude: A year and a half ago, I moved in with my first roommate ever. After a few months, he complained that I was snoring very loudly at night and waking him up and preventing him from getting a good night's sleep. We were friends for 2 years prior and remain friends today, but his difficulties with my snoring -- which nobody had ever told me I had a problem with before -- almost ruined our relationship and forced one or the other of us to move out. I chalked it up to him being a light sleeper, and he to me having put on some weight causing me to snore.

In September of last year, I began to notice signs of tiredness. By October, I was noticing how much I wanted to go to sleep by 4 in the afternoon -- and how easily I could if I chose to!

And when talking to somebody about this a few weeks ago, I realized that going back I don't know how long (guesstimate: September 2007) I had been having dreamless sleep and been periodically waking up in the middle of the night every 1-2 hours.

Main Point: Today I went to my family doctor. She contacted a sleep clinic in town and I just got a phone call from them. I am slated to go in tomorrow night at 9pm for a sleep study. I show up at 9 and within 10 minutes or so they begin the 45-minute long non-invasive procedure of putting electrodes on my scalp and legs. (No idea if they'll have to shave my head or not, but I don't mind even if they do. Just so long as it's non-invasive, i.e. no electrodes going into the skin, just onto.) I don't know how much you can really figure out from a person's "brain waves" *holds back urge to roll eyes* , but hey, I'm counting on their ability to do exactly that, so I guess I shouldn't make fun! ^^; Hopefully they can monitor my brain, as well as listen in on the noise(s) I'm making while asleep, and figure out if I have sleep apnia, some other sleep disorder, or nothing at all.

Why I'm Posting: Hell, I post most things here, don't I? But seriously, I thought there might be some teenagers or college students here who could use my experience in some way. I also was wondering if anybody else has ever had this done, or if I'm taking "one small step for UPN" here and becoming the first UPNer to have his brain waves examined while he's sleeping. :P

What I Hope to Get Out of This: A diagnosis, first and foremost. But seeing as I absolutely refuse to be put on "sleep meds," if they do diagnose me as having a problem, I hope it can be treated either through simple magically simple lifestyle changes or by surgery. Granted, ever since I've been a small child I've been afraid to death of the thought of being anesthetized and never waking up from it, and I also can only imagine how much the middle of my face would KILL if they had to do some sort of nasal surgery involving the breaking of bones and stuff. But at this point, I miss my dreams, I miss having well-rested sleep, and most important of all I'm fucking sick and tired of feeling sleepy even when I get 10 hours of sleep in a row. So if I can fix this problem surgically, scared as I am, I probably will.

[Doppleganger]

Did you know I tend to wake up between 6-9:00 AM and go to sleep at 5:00 AM? I'm having sleep troubles as well and I'm not sure why. The horror of putting off work until a later date yet being too tired to actually do that work while I'm still awake seems to put me in insomnia limbo.

[Doppleganger]

My father has that problem. Try sleeping on your back, Talon.

[Lunar Delta]

I had electrodes attached to my head and my sleep studied when I was a child.

I really wish I could have it done again now, because my sleep problems are getting so out of hand that they're drastically affecting my quality of life and the quality of my work as well. My insomnia is extreme. I normally only get about 2-3 hours of sleep per day. Nothing can keep me asleep, not even the perscription medications I've tried. I'm against medications as a matter of principle, but sometimes you just get desperate. It's really bad when you're taking something like Ambien or Lunesta and can't get to sleep even while under its effects! It makes you feel like a zombie and you risk suffering memory loss from it as well.

[Kasumi Violet]

A couple of my uncles, and it seems like every other male on the planet has sleep apnea. My uncle has had two surgeries for it (but that's b/c he doesn't want to wear a mask). It'll be great for you if they can treat it, you'll sleep better.

I should probably be grateful that I just giggle and talk in my sleep.

[Talon87]

My dad and I drove to the sleep study center last night and got there around 8:50pm, ten minutes before my scheduled arrival at 9:00pm. We were buzzed in (the building was locked up for the night for security) and took the elevator to the 4th floor. Within 30 minutes, a nurse-tech (dunno quite what her position was) showed up and began to put the electrodes on me.

Legs: two electrodes were places on each leg to detect any myoclonus

Shoulders: I don't remember what these were for. One on each shoulder.

TMJ: these were to detect any grinding of the teeth and also to give an electrical response to go along with any snoring heard over microphones in the room

Eyes: just in front of my temples, they placed one electrode each to detect eye movement.

Nose: not electrodes lol, but two devices were placed on my upper lip. One had two probes, one for each nostril, that went in about 1.0 cm and were to detect nasal airflow. The other was made of a moldable wire that rested between my nostrils and my mouth and whose purpose I forget. (IIRC they were both for nasal airflow measurements, but one works better on some people than the other and vice versa.)

Scalp: 8 or so electrodes were placed in various places on top of my head, presumably to measure my brain waves.

More in the next post ...

[Talon87]

I went to bed at 10:22pm. Because it felt so weird to have these wires tugging (gently) on the back of my head, I was extremely self-conscious when trying to turn from a back-resting position to a side-resting position. I was very afraid of ripping the wires off of me or out of the measuring box. I think this fear contributed to why, as I told the nurse-tech, this was "the worst night of sleep I've had in ages."

It wasn't until what felt like after 11pm at night that I fell asleep. Normally I fall asleep within 10 minutes, but I couldn't really pass out despite yawning constantly and my eyes watering profusely from extreme tiredness. (I had been up since 6am and was eager to go to bed!)

I woke up at least three times that I can remember during the night. Every time but one, I woke up because of muscle strain / soreness / "wanting to turn from being on my back to being on my side." I don't know if my unconscious body was just as afraid to toss and turn w/o pulling out the wires as my conscious form, but 100% the #1 thing on my mind each and every time I woke up was, "Shit. I'm awake. And I really need to turn. I bet they're watching all of this."

I forgot to mention that the room I was in looked like a hotel room for one person. It had a queen sized bed, television, etc. But what made it different was that there were hidden microphones in the room as well as an obvious, large camera in one corner of the room's ceiling.

So anyway, I would stay awake in bed (sometimes with my eyes closed, other times with my eyes open) for about 5-10 minutes before the pain of muscle soreness became so much that I just said in my head, "Look -- I NEED to turn over!", and I would then grab hold of the blanket and raise it up (so as not to drag it), and be mindful of the wires coming out of the back of my head like the Borg Queen ¬_¬ , and I would turn to the right or to the left.

The one time I woke up for another reason was towards the end of the study. I woke up for who knows what reason, and I heard two voices through the wall. I figured they would quit talking soon, but 10 minutes of restlessness went by before I spoke aloud -- "Hello?" -- and a tech came on to my local PA system. I told him about the noise and he went to check it out. Turned out it was ~15 minutes before the end of my experiment, and it already was the end of somebody else's experiment, and the people talking were that patient and the tech unwiring them.

More in the next post ...

[Talon87]

So how did I do?

Talon's thoughts: this was, without a doubt, the worst night of sleep I've had in a while. I'm afraid that it will give the team a false positive -- be it for my problem or (more seriously) for a problem I don't have like insomnia. (Believe you me -- I'm not an insomniac! lol) The things were:

1- I woke up about the same # of times as normal (~3), but I would normally just roll over and go to sleep and fall asleep within 30 seconds. Here, I hesitated 5-10 minutes before rolling and then took 10-20 minutes to fall back to sleep. I don't think I was asleep at all (even shallow sleep) for more than 3 hours last night. -_-;

2- My back really hurts right now. Again, I think because I slept on it too much. Also, at home I normally sleep on my stomach a lot (I like it!), and there was at least one time I r-e-a-l-l-y wanted to last night and couldn't. I think my back had to bear an unusually large burden for itself last night, and it's feeling the burn right now.

3- I felt damn tired (way more than usual) when I was woken up by staff at 5:45am, and I am already yawning. I normally don't start to yawn until 4-5pm. It's 10:20am local.


Nurse-Tech's Thoughts: she could not officially give me any possible diagnosis because that's the doctor's job, not hers, and he can't do it until 7-10 business days from now. But here is what she could tell me:

1- "You're not the worst case I've ever had ..." First time she said this, it was in a tone that made me think that I had slept really well compared to most of her patients. It wasn't until #2 that I realized what she was really trying to say.

2- "Honey, you SNORED!" She sympathetically chuckled when I asked if they could really hear me snoring last night. She said that while I had not been too bad for most of the night, towards the end ... well, I assume it was pretty bad because she trailed off just as I have and didn't finish the sentence. My old roommate (and friend of 3 years) said that I'm the #2 noisiest snorer he's ever heard in his life, second only to his father who -- before he got rhinoplasty to treat his own sleep apnea -- could literally be heard from 10 yards outside the home from the direction of the parents' bedroom. So ... I'm guessing that his theory was correct and my loud snoring is what's waking me up in the middle of the night and giving me a shitty time of things.


Doctor's Thoughts: I won't know for 7-10 business days. The nurse-tech said that if I don't hear from anybody by two Wednesdays from now, I should call back.


Diagnosis: none yet made, but the nurse heavily hinted towards obstructive sleep apnea. She also asked if I had had my tonsils removed -- when I said "No," she knowingly "Mm-hmm!"'ed. So ... it's sounding like I will have to go in for surgery after all. Ho boy. But they ruled out one thing for certain -- I'm not imagining things nor is my roommate making it up.

Edit: Just to clarify, I lived with my friend in Hawkins Hall at Purdue last year from August 2006 to May 2007. I currently live in a single apartment at Purdue, so I do not currently have a roommate. Don't get confused!

[Talon87]

That is not what the nurses and doctors I have talked to have suggested. They say that a CPAP is so uncomfortable and makes the quality of living (when going to bed) decline by enough that the rankings are as follows:

1- Lifestyle changes
2- Surgical treatment
3- Medication
4- positive pressure O2 (e.g. CPAP)

My understanding is that surgery is often tried before medication or CPAP but (a) that its long-term success rate is typically 5 years or less and (b) that it does not work for all patients. However! This is only what's typical. There are some patients for whom surgery proves permanently sufficient and no further treatment is required.

Medication is generally frowned upon because of fears of addiction, side-effects, etc., but if successful it is far preferred to using a CPAP.

A CPAP treatment is a "last resort" option that is prescribed when medications have failed and surgery is either ill-advised or has failed as well. In a clinical setting, it is typically used for morbidly obese patients who would otherwise die in their sleep without a CPAP. In a home setting, only the most desperate of sleep apnea patients resort to this method. By all means, a CPAP is preferred to no treatment at all, but it is not something you try as a "first step" because you want to see if less bothersome methods work first.

I am also of the understanding that in my particular case, my tonsils are abnormally large. One doctor told me that they look like "a case of tonsillitis" even though I am totally fine right now. A nurse who examined my mouth was surprised by how large they were and thought it was a miracle I could breathe or swallow at all.

I have retained my tonsils (against my parents' wishes when I was a child) because I am a big believer against frivolous surgeries and a big believer in the human body not having as many vestiges as the medical community likes to think it has. I believe, even now, that a person is better off with their tonsils than without them in general. But I also believe that the benefits my tonsils afford me presently and could afford me in the future are overshadowed by the damage that this sleep apnea has been causing and could continue to cause me if left untreated. That is to say, I may like having my tonsils for immunologic reasons but if they've got to go then they've got to go.

[Doppleganger]

Originally Posted by Xuande

A CPAP treatment is a "last resort" option that is prescribed when medications have failed and surgery is either ill-advised or has failed as well. In a clinical setting, it is typically used for morbidly obese patients who would otherwise die in their sleep without a CPAP. In a home setting, only the most desperate of sleep apnea patients resort to this method. By all means, a CPAP is preferred to no treatment at all, but it is not something you try as a "first step" because you want to see if less bothersome methods work first.

My Dad uses one of those, Talon. It's most definitely not a "last resort", the case is as dami says, it's usually administered first as it's the least risky of all the treatments for sleep apnea. From what you were told it sounds like an iron lung, but it's just a noisy machine that allows people to breath more easily. True, my Dad is very fat, and the circumstances of his case are a bit different from yours (weak heart) but it's not that much of a horrible inconvenience.

There is a danger that if one doesn't clean the mask, one risks a nasty bacterial infection. This happened once last year and knocked out my Dad for two week's worth of work.

Originally Posted by Xuande

I have retained my tonsils (against my parents' wishes when I was a child) because I am a big believer against frivolous surgeries and a big believer in the human body not having as many vestiges as the medical community likes to think it has. I believe, even now, that a person is better off with their tonsils than without them in general. But I also believe that the benefits my tonsils afford me presently and could afford me in the future are overshadowed by the damage that this sleep apnea has been causing and could continue to cause me if left untreated. That is to say, I may like having my tonsils for immunologic reasons but if they've got to go then they've got to go.

Reading what these doctors tell you is sort of pissing me off. :x I've never had my doctors insist on surgery though they've admitted that's always the option, they're of the view tonsils protect against infection. Blaming your sleep apnea on something as spurious as enlarged tonsils sounds to me like an excuse to have an operation and bill your insurance.

[Talon87]

Your dad sounds as though he's obese and needs the CPAP for obesity reasons. Bariatric surgery is dangerous; tonsillectomy and rhinoplasty are not. So it's easy to see why:

- Doppel has heard that surgery is not preferred to CPAP for his dad
- Talon has heard that surgery is preferred to CPAP for his situation

We can't think of treatments as these blanket options that will ALWAYS be better than the things they are sometimes better than and will ALWAYS be worse than the things they are sometimes worse than. No! What's worst to do in one situation is best to do in another. And I think the CPAP situation is similar. If your dad is so obese + has such a weak heart that he needs a CPAP to help him breathe, it sounds like his body is in jeopardy and it can't be rectified by lifestyle changes (maybe the weight, but not the heart) nor by medications or surgery. For him, the CPAP is Choice Numero Uno as well as his only realistic choice.

And no, they didn't describe it like an iron lung. They describe it like the mouthpiece of an ambu bag, i.e. they describe it like a typical positive pressure O2 mask you see on patients in a clinical setting, i.e. it's not an iron lung but it's also not something you can sleep face-down on.

[Kasumi Violet]

Wow, it'll be interesting when you get the official results.

[Talon87]

I completely forgot to mention in all this fuss over the first line of treating obstructive sleep apnea that ...

I fell asleep at around ~10:30am today and woke up at ~2:30pm, having woken up two previous times in that 4-hour window and gone back to sleep.

Why? My cat kept headbutting me while I was on the computer, and when I lay down on the bed to see if that was what she had wanted me to do, sure enough she curled into a ball right near my chest and went to sleep. So I decided to take a nap with my adorable cat ... and woke up all three times with her still sleeping right next to me. When I got up that third time at 2:30pm (hungry!), she was also ready to get up. It was perfect timing.

So yeah. I feel a lot better now than I did this morning and, while somewhat sleepy and holding back some baby yawns, have not really yawned at all yet and it's already 8:45pm. I hope that means I got something out of that unintentionally long cat nap!

Yes, KV, I quite agree: it'll be interesting to get the results back. I'm so anxious. We don't even know for certain if it's obstructive sleep apnea or not (though it seems so incredibly likely), and we don't know what the sleep doctor's suggestion to my family doctor will be. Will they agree? Will they disagree? And whatever their opinions are, what will they include: surgery? meds? positive pressure gas mask? behavioral modification (e.g. concerted effort to lose weight as per the doctor's orders)? or a mix of any of the four?

[Cubone17]

That pretty much sucks I hope you don't end up having to have surgery. To be honest though it is not so bad if the nurses looking after you in the recovery room are cute.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Cubone17

That pretty much sucks I hope you don't end up having to have surgery. To be honest though it is not so bad if the nurses looking after you in the recovery room are cute.

Despite your post in the "This Isn't My Body" thread about how I'd successfully creeped everyone out, or perhaps because you made that post :P , I have got to inform you that despite the tomes upon tomes of hospital-themed H-doujinshi I have, the thought had never even crossed my mind. And yet it came to you naturally. :P ^_-

Isn't a tonsillectomy + clearing of the nasal tubercles + adenoidectomy an out-patient procedure? I know the first and third one are done together and I'm 99% certain they're out-patient; but I have no idea if extra nasal surgery necessitates hospitalization.

[Cubone17]

hey I will admit deep down at heart I like cute females. So of course this comes to mind fast. I have had my tonsils out and also major knee surgery and sadly neither time were they cute. As for the tonsil removal when I had it done as a kid they had me in a normal room and were planning to keep me over night but let me go as I forced enough fluids into myself they said i had met the requirment and could go home so to be honest I have no idea I figure for an adult it will probably be out patient. Besides I never said anything perverted or really creepy just that the possiblity of eyecandy might be there.

[Talon87]

I got a phone call from the sleep clinic's doctor earlier today. He wants to talk about treatment options in person at a later date, but for now he informed me of two things:

1) He does NOT believe I have sleep apnea. I showed no signs of impaired breathing, stopping breathing, etc.
2) He DOES believe that I have a severe snoring problem and that that is the primary source of my sleep problem. He believes that I snore so loudly that I wake myself up before I can enter REM sleep.

Now you may be thinking -- as I was! -- that this doesn't sound any different from sleep apnea. But the doctor's office insisted that there's a medical difference between "waking yourself up from snoring" and having sleep apnea. Sleep apnea's diagnosis requires several additional factors, primary among them being the cessation of breathing, and therefore I do not have this problem.

The recommended treatment for this problem is not medication because medication can't do much to keep you from snoring and you don't want to play with dangerous sedatives that will induce coma-like sleep; nor is it an assisted breathing apparatus since I am having no trouble breathing and I will still wake up from the snoring! The doctor's office suggested that the usual procedure is to perform a tonsillectomy, adenoidectomy, and draining the nasal sinuses, but that they want to see me first to see if these would be advisable in the first place and in the second place if there are other procedures which they can identify as being helpful in reducing the severity of my snoring.

So there you have it. Much to everyone's surprise -- including mine! -- the pro says "NOT sleep apnea."

[Kasumi Violet]

That's great news! Congrats! (I think it's better to be waking yourself up from sleeping due to noise than be not breathing while sleeping but then again YMMV)

- KV

[Loki]

Over the weekend, I was sleeping in a hotel with my Anime Convention friends. Since some snore, I wore a headset and blasted music to sleep. This probably isn't the best idea, but I can sleep easier with music blasting than a randomly loud snore.

Sometime in the middle of the night, I heard someone snore over my music, so I cranked up the volume on my MP3 player. But despite all my Volume + button mashing, the volume didn't go up and the snoring still could be heard. Then it took me like another minute to realize the controller I was pressing the button for looked nothing like my MP3 player and that it was in fact a dream. Then I woke up. I proceeded to raise the volume and go back to sleep. Awful night's sleep (I was on the floor). Odd dream. And yes, the person was actually snoring over my music.

Congrats on you not having a sleep disorder.