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Old 01-26-2013, 04:43 AM   #51
kaisap112
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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
The second half of the episode redeemed the episode for me overall.

Spoiler: show
Most of our main characters had at least some lines and screen time, and I enjoyed each of their various little interchanges with their fellow characters. Makishima reading this novel, あらかじめ裏切られた革命 (trans. "The Revolution That Was Betrayed Before It Even Began"), was a nice little touch that made me actually pause my episode just to go and look this book up. (From what I was able to discern, it sounds like a non-fiction book that has something to do with the Soviet Union and/or Chechnya.)
About that book...
Spoiler: show
The English translation is, according to Wiki, "The Revolution Betrayed: What Is the Soviet Union and Where Is It Going?", "by the Russian Bolshevik leader Leon Trotsky, published in 1937, analyzing and criticizing Stalinism and the post-Lenin development in the Soviet Union."

It's urging the readers to overthrow Stalinist dictatorship and replace it with a socialist democracy. I'm not so politically inclined as to know how a socialist democracy is different from a "regular" democracy, but the more sophisticated people here might be swirling their wine glasses and going "o-ho-ho-hoh, that is most clever, dear sir! ".

The book is available in English online, actually, if anyone's interested in reading it.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:18 AM   #52
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Really? 'Cause I looked up the author online and it said he was born in 1959 and that he wrote the book in 1996. In other words, that he isn't Leon Trotsky. Here, let me look again ...

Author: Iwakami Yasumi
Publication Date: June 1996

Now, it sounds just from the title and the fact that the book has to do with the Soviet Union that it may be about how Trotsky was driven out of the revolution by political adversaries, and how the Communist state that resulted was a betrayal of the ideals Trotsky and his supporters had fought for, but no, it doesn't look like this book was written in 1936 by Trotsky. So where did you get that idea?
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:25 AM   #53
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Really? 'Cause I looked up the author online and it said he was born in 1959 and that he wrote the book in 1996. In other words, that he isn't Leon Trotsky. Here, let me look again ...

Author: Iwakami Yasumi
Publication Date: June 1996

Now, it sounds just from the title and the fact that the book has to do with the Soviet Union that it may be about how Trotsky was driven out of the revolution by political adversaries, and how the Communist state that resulted was a betrayal of the ideals Trotsky and his supporters had fought for, but no, it doesn't look like this book was written in 1936 by Trotsky. So where did you get that idea?
I cannot read kanji or kana, and the English name in the fansub (was that added on or was the book's title really in English?) brought up that Trotsky-book.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:30 AM   #54
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It's possible that the fansub translator is a political science or history buff and he recognized the similarity in Iwakami's 1996 title to Trotsky's 1937 title and just assumed that they were the same book, forcing an inappropriate English-translated title on the book that matched Trotsky's. I dunno, who did you watch it with? I've been watching with Commie. I couldn't make out their translated text from where I was sitting when watching, so I looked everything up via smartphone. I'll check to see if they're the culprits next time I turn on my computer.

EDIT: Nope, just checked. They're good. Translated 裏切られた as "sabotaged" rather than "betrayed" but one could argue that contextually theirs is the more English-apt translation, mine the more literal. Otherwise identical.


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Old 01-26-2013, 11:18 AM   #55
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It's possible that the fansub translator is a political science or history buff and he recognized the similarity in Iwakami's 1996 title to Trotsky's 1937 title and just assumed that they were the same book, forcing an inappropriate English-translated title on the book that matched Trotsky's. I dunno, who did you watch it with? I've been watching with Commie. I couldn't make out their translated text from where I was sitting when watching, so I looked everything up via smartphone. I'll check to see if they're the culprits next time I turn on my computer.

EDIT: Nope, just checked. They're good. Translated 裏切られた as "sabotaged" rather than "betrayed" but one could argue that contextually theirs is the more English-apt translation, mine the more literal. Otherwise identical.

I watch with HorribleSubs (the CR-copy one?) and they'be used..."A Revolution Sabotaged Before It Began" and name of author. *headdesk* How did I miss that?!
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:41 PM   #56
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The first half of the episode left me feeling pretty mixed feelings.

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On the one hand, I think it's interesting that Makishima is trying to foment revolution. On the other hand, I don't care for gratuitous violence or gore, so both the scissors-to-the-throat scene and the bludgeoning+raping scene were big turn offs. The latter especially bugged me, and threatened to force me to admit that Yuki may be somewhat correct when she says "Psycho-Pass is silly ", because I felt, and I still feel, that it is so stupid to suggest that the robots only picked up on the stress levels of the woman being raped and not on the criminal thinking of the men who were enjoying video taping what pretty much amounted to snuff pornography. Like, seriously.
I decided to return to this part of Talon's post (and back on track with the topic): that stuff isn't exactly too far-fetched from the reality we already live in. Psycho-Pass is pretty heavy on the social commentary, but I doubt that comes as a surprise at this point.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:11 AM   #57
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Episode 15 - sh*t gets real, lots of author name-dropping and I feel they're doing a climax plot way too early.

Spoiler: show
Thought the violence and gore last week was overdoing it? Well guess what, we're getting even more of that, on an even bigger scale, as Makishima's helmets are driving the whole PP-universe into chaos. The police force are proved tiny (really, you couldn't even fill a lecture hall with ALL THE OFFICERS IN THE CITY?!) and almost completely useless and weaponless when the Dominators are out of the equation.

While the police is trying to tame all the riots exploding around town, Makishima and his friend discuss...books. I'm getting convinced that the writer is trying to show off "look at all these books I've read!". I've read Orwell, and "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" was brought up in the Fizzy Bubbles Time-Out some time ago.

Next week we'll probably go through Makishima's personal bookshelf and call it character development - not that we haven't seen that for a week or two already, as Makishima's personality and motives are still a bit of a hazy subject. You want to get rid of the Sybil System (I assume)? Why? What for? Kogami suggested that he's not doing it for the sh*ts and giggles, so then why?! Should I have read all the name-dropped books to understand what the heck is going on with Makishima and his Chinese(?) partner?

I also would have expected a development like "let's physically take down Sybil" to occur closer to episode 20 - now it feels like we're heading for a rushed ending, and there's still seven episodes to go! If they catch Makishima within the next two or three episodes, what on earth is going to be left? More of Makishima's Book Club? The first episode of the series suggested an epic final battle between Kogami and Mr. Books, but shouldn't that be a final episode, not episode 16/17/18?

Thinking about it like this, episode 15 got me pretty frustrated. Hopefully the pacing will get on track next week or the progression of the story is going to get really weird.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:30 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by kaisap112 View Post
Episode 15 - sh*t gets real, lots of author name-dropping and I feel they're doing a climax plot way too early.

Spoiler: show
Thought the violence and gore last week was overdoing it? Well guess what, we're getting even more of that, on an even bigger scale, as Makishima's helmets are driving the whole PP-universe into chaos. The police force are proved tiny (really, you couldn't even fill a lecture hall with ALL THE OFFICERS IN THE CITY?!) and almost completely useless and weaponless when the Dominators are out of the equation.

While the police is trying to tame all the riots exploding around town, Makishima and his friend discuss...books. I'm getting convinced that the writer is trying to show off "look at all these books I've read!". I've read Orwell, and "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" was brought up in the Fizzy Bubbles Time-Out some time ago.

Next week we'll probably go through Makishima's personal bookshelf and call it character development - not that we haven't seen that for a week or two already, as Makishima's personality and motives are still a bit of a hazy subject. You want to get rid of the Sybil System (I assume)? Why? What for? Kogami suggested that he's not doing it for the sh*ts and giggles, so then why?! Should I have read all the name-dropped books to understand what the heck is going on with Makishima and his Chinese(?) partner?

I also would have expected a development like "let's physically take down Sybil" to occur closer to episode 20 - now it feels like we're heading for a rushed ending, and there's still seven episodes to go! If they catch Makishima within the next two or three episodes, what on earth is going to be left? More of Makishima's Book Club? The first episode of the series suggested an epic final battle between Kogami and Mr. Books, but shouldn't that be a final episode, not episode 16/17/18?

Thinking about it like this, episode 15 got me pretty frustrated. Hopefully the pacing will get on track next week or the progression of the story is going to get really weird.
Makishima's...

Spoiler: show
..."Book Club", hahaha. I don't know whether to applaud Gen or not for acknowledging the author of Minority Report (Philip K. Dick - which I only discovered by looking him up afterwards). "Yeah, I used a famous story for inspiration... But it's totally not the same! See? The society's even worse so it must be a parody!" Yeah, I'm laughing, all right. I like how he even tried to lead uninformed viewers (such as myself) off-track by name-dropping a different title first (funny coincidence it came up in FB recently). Even the fact the characters mentioned it was made into a movie tickles me somehow. I get Gen's trying to show he did his research and appeal to the scholarly/science-fiction crowd, but it's starting to come off really forced at this point.

Though I did get a personal jolt of satisfaction upon being able to recognize Joseph Conrad's name in kana on Heart of Darkness, which Kogami was reading in the hospital bed. "Hey, I read that! ...Didn't like it, but I read it."


Oh, and fuck that first scene again.

While I'm here, I may as well comment on what amused me on episode 12 as well:

Spoiler: show
The fact the couple stopped to talk to Yayoi, warning her not to go inside... Then were all like "You're in our way! Move!"

I think what really got me though was how stiff and obviously expositional it was. "Rina, the vocalist of Prophecy!" ...Did you seriously need to repeat the whole title when the person asking just said her name so she probably knows who that is? >.>; Just felt randomly inserted.

Also, agreeing with kaisap I have no clue where Talon got the idea Yayoi and Rina were lesbians. (Yayoi does sound like "yaoi" though...)

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Old 02-01-2013, 10:03 AM   #59
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Makishima's...

Spoiler: show
..."Book Club", hahaha.
Well, they also went as far as
Spoiler: show
giving a very clear stand on "ebook vs. real book" for absolutely no reason. Makishima's Book Club is canon, I swear!
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:45 PM   #60
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Also, agreeing with kaisap I have no clue where Talon got the idea Yayoi and Rina were lesbians. (Yayoi does sound like "yaoi" though...)
No offense, but you girls have mentioned this teasingly several times. Each time you two have been like "Talon is so silly, neeeeeeeeeee~? ^-^" as you smile at each other. And each time I have asked myself, "Are they blind? -_-;" I know that sounds rude , but ... well, as I think you'll see below, there was a lot of evidence all throughout the episode. ^^; In fact, I would say that this was at the very heart of the episode, so in failing to recognize it you guys completely missed the point of the episode, I feel.

Spoiler: show

1m00s - Rina grabs Yayoi by the arm and pulls her away, Yayoi's body rag-doll following in much the typical "princess swept off of her feet by a knight on a white horse" kind of manner
Category: intimate physical contact


1m22s - they look into each others' eyes, and very special emphasis by the animation studio is placed on this, showing us just their eyes as they look into each others'. Shouldn't Rina's eyes be on the fingernails? Shouldn't Yayoi's be there too? But we go from Yayoi staring into Rina's, to Rina staring into Yayoi's, to Yayoi staring into Rina's -- that is quite literally ALL THEY DO AND ALL WE SEE -- before the memory of Yayoi's band mate's irritated calling after her rouses Yayoi from her flashback.
Category: intimate non-physical contact


1m28s to 2m11s - (All throughout the episode,) Yayoi is revealed to clearly be in her right state of mind. She has no discernible criminal intent, she isn't in the midst of a midlife crisis or psychotic episode, ... she is perfectly fine. And yet? Her Criminal Coefficient has landed her here in jail. And then, as she looks out her glass door at all of the other latent criminals in the penitentiary with her and she surely asks herself "What the heck am I doing here?", she looks down at her nails, still painted in the nail polish Rina gave her. Once again, the animators' make an implictly big deal of this by specifically focusing on it. We don't see Yayoi doing it from, say, 4 or 5 meters away from her. No: we see her doing it from her own perspective, and all we really see in that drab white room is the floor and her nail-polished hand. That's it. It says so much. Looking at the nails perhaps reminds Yayoi why she is here in the first place -- Rina. It perhaps reminds her of why she wants to get out -- Rina. It perhaps represents the one thing keeping her sane in this madhouse, the one thing that brings a little color into this drab world -- Rina, Rina, Rina.
Category: other signs


2m15s - it is revealed that Rina's nail polish is one of very few personal belongings Yayoi even has in this prison cell, further indicating that it is precious to her.
Category: other signs

2m15s - And logic tells us it must be precious to her -- because she continues to apply it to her fingernails while in prison, even though the primary idea with nail polish, as with all makeup, is to make oneself look more pretty to other people. Well, what other people? Clearly she isn't applying it for that reason. And the secondary idea with nail polish, as explained at the start of the episode for the benefit like men like myself, is that it helps to protect thin or brittle nails from cracking when used. But this can't be the reason she's continuing to apply the nail polish either -- for as we learn later on in the episode, she doesn't have her guitar or guitar strings with her, so she can't play; and there's nothing else she could possibly do in that prison cell which would require her to use her nails in such a way as to risk tearing them. So if she isn't applying it to be pretty, and if she isn't applying it to protect her nails, then that must mean she is applying it just because she wants to. Well, why does she want to? Because it's special to her. And why is it special to her. Well duh ....
Category: other signs


5m12s - It's revealed that she's been in this mental ward for the last 6 months; and that she hasn't been able to play the guitar once in those six months; and that she very much wants to.
Category: supporting evidence for other evidence (See: 1m28s - 2m11s. See also: 16m05s.)


9m10s - we return to the time when Rina was applying nail polish to Yayoi's fingernails. Then Yayoi's band mate finds them. The way the scene is set up feels very much to me like an angry friend discovering someone breaking some moral code, like a friend discovering their own friend doing something terribly taboo with some miscreant. Well, what's taboo about nail polish? Nothing, that's what. So then what's got her so worked up? Easy: the palpable intimacy between the two women in front of her. The friend angrily pulls Yayoi up and says "Your hue's gonna get clouded!"
Category: intimate physical contact


9m40s~ish thru 10m06s - Yayoi's friend barks at Yayoi that they should go home and makes a disparaging remark about underground groups' music. Rina then says something which strikes Yayoi as very wise (we can clearly appreciate from this scene). Yayoi ends up choosing Rina, a girl she just met, over her band mate and friend. And doesn't just choose her: she runs to touch her and the two touch palms. Is this something you ladies do with girls you just meet and think you want to be friends with? I don't think so.
Category: intimate physical contact


11m08s - Shion's look at Yayoi indicates that she is impressed by Yayoi's analytical prowess. But perhaps a better way to word this would be to say that she appears intrigued by Yayoi. This is important since this is a flashback episode and, according to many (though I never noticed it myself ), there are strong vibes in any Shion & Yayoi scene which indicate that the two are lovers. So you could basically say that in this episode which is all about Yayoi discovering she's a lesbian, we have here the seed for the series' eventual #1 (and only? ^^; ) homosexual couple.
Category: other signs


16m05s - the way Rina throws herself at Yayoi when the two cross paths for the first time in over six months is rather physically intimate. Would you throw your body, ladies, at a woman whom you had only met once or twice half a year ago and then never heard from again? Particularly if it was a woman that you had found out through the grapevine wasn't returning your calls precisely because she's in the insane asylum? I don't think so. Not typical behavior for platonic friends to do. This goes way beyond being mere friends.
Category: intimate physical contact


18m44s - all episode long, Kougami and the others have speculated as to what could have been the cause for Yayoi winding up with a clouded Psycho-Pass. Sasayama and Ginoza discussed in the car ride back to the office how, because art can influence people and lead them to become latent criminals, Sybil is especially strict on who it allows to become an artist and who it does not. And since Yayoi passed that test with flying colors, they're all confused as to why now she's gone and turned out to be a latent criminal. This line of reasoning is meant to lead the viewer to consider the possibility that Yayoi has entertained anarchist / other "down with {aspects of our society}!" feelings as a result of her exposure to Rina and Rina's music. But then we have this scene here, at around the 18-minute 40-second mark. Rina is telling Yayoi about how she plans to reach people's hearts through her music and foment revolution. But then Yayoi shouts at her, "That's not what it was about for me! It wasn't about that at all! All this time ... I just wanted to stand on stage again with you. That's all I wanted!" This scene is crucial. Because it instructs the viewer to toss out Kougami, Ginoza, and Sasayama's theory that it was the music which corrupted Yayoi ... and to realize that, yes indeedy, it's been the homosexuality this entire time that has been responsible for why Yayoi's Psycho-Pass hue clouded and why she's been institutionalized. She was a-okay before she met Rina. Then she met Rina and fell in love. Fell in love with another woman. Her heart yearned for someone society had declared she mustn't have. And yet she went against society's wishes and pursued her relationship with Rina anyway. This is what wound her up in prison. She didn't fall in love with the music: she fell in love with the musician.
Category: other signs

And there you have it. Hopefully this helps you to make better sense of Episode 12.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:22 PM   #61
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Episode 15 was pretty good, but as build-up for future episodes it's fairly limited in how much ground it's willing to cover before rolling those ending credits and thus it's fairly limited in how exciting it can be. I didn't care for the graphic displays of violence in the first seven or so minutes of the episode, but once we got over that hurdle, it was pretty smooth sailing.

Spoiler: show
Gen's "look at me, look at how well-read I am :3" name dropping of various authors has already been mentioned so I won't go into too much detail on that. I'll just add "I noticed it too" / "I was mildly annoyed by that as well " and "I too thought it pretty funny that he actually mentioned, by name, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? by Philip K. Dick." We'd discussed the obvious Philip K. Dick vibe of Psycho-Pass as early as before even watching Episode 01 , but the series did end up diverging from Minority Report enough that I don't think any of us would now accuse it of being a Minority Report skin lift so much as it is a story loosely inspired by Minority Report. But still. Very amusing to see Gen more or less admit, "Yeeeeeeeeeees, yes , I read Philip K. Dick and Psycho-Pass has heavy influences from Dick's writing."

That one police officer with the mole below her eye is pretty attractive.

As of the previous episode, it was obvious that we were ramping up the speed with Psycho-Pass and making our way towards the face-off between Kougami and Makishima that was shown at the start of Episode 01. As of this episode, we actually had some of the very same footage shown in Episode 01's opener used in the opening scene of this very episode. So like, we know we're pretty much going to experience only one of two possible outcomes with this series now:

a) the face-off between Kougami and Makishima will happen soon (Episode 16, 17, or 18) and then there will be uncharted territory in the remaining episodes

b) the face-off between Kougami and Makishima won't happen until later (Episode 20, 21, or even 22) and until then we're going to have a very prolonged build up, for better or for worse.

I'm hoping it's A. Kaisap seems to be worried it'll be A and indicates she doesn't want A, but I do. I would like A. And the reason I would like A is, a) I like being surprised, b) I don't like it when stories stall for time, and c) I don't think that that face-off we saw in Episode 01 has to necessarily be the final showdown between these two men. Who said it does? All Akane said in Episode 01 was that that showdown was perhaps predestined since before the men were born, and that it was the first time they'd ever met face to face. She didn't say anything like "This was the last time they'd ever meet" or "This was the showdown that settled things once and for all," nothing like that. So I could easily see that tower showdown being our #2 biggest deal of the series ... and an appetizer for our main course, the #1 biggest deal of the series, and something that'll be covered in Episodes 19, 20, 21, and 22. (I'm assuming the tower face-off will be wrapped up by Episode 18, three episodes from now.)

Makishima's ally is okay but I don't think anyone at this point really believes that Makishima has shared with him the full details of his plan or that Makishima sees that guy as his equal. So that makes it hard for me to care about him much more than we've cared about any of Makishima's other pawns up to this point.

Not much else to say since, like I said before, this was sadly a build-up episode that is building things up for next week and/or the weeks after. But it wasn't a bad episode! I enjoyed watching it (other than the first seven or so minutes, which were a put-off) and I'm looking forward to next week's episode.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:30 PM   #62
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Episode 16.

Spoiler: show
The first scene of the show happened! AND FREAKING MAKISHIMA'S BOOK CLUB STRIKES AGAIN! This time with a quote battle between Makishima and Kogami. Also, how on earth is Makishima a martial arts expert? Just for the battle scene?

Makishima is a sadistic bastard.

Akane unable to kill Makishima AGAIN. Not really surprised-

HOLY SHIT ARAKI (REDHEAD) IS DEAD WHY WHY WHY?! He was my favorite character!

So as it turns out, the Chief was a robot, with the ability to turn the Dominator on lethal mode at will. And as per usual sci-fi anime, there's a big ugly secret in the basement we're not shown until probably episode 21/22. Yes, Talon was right, Makishima vs. Kogami was not a final battle and ended up being far less impressive than I expected. Maybe the plot will now start rolling with more speed?

As Makishima is apparently not the ultimate antagonist of this show, what else is there? A "robots rule mankind from the shadows" type of solution? Looking forward to next week's episode, actually (as opposed to this week when my reaction was "oh yeah, Psycho-Pass, totally forgot there's a big plot thing going on").
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:31 PM   #63
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Episode 16.

Spoiler: show
Also, how on earth is Makishima a martial arts expert? Just for the battle scene?
Spoiler: show
He was shown handling those thugs that tried to turn on him before, wasn't he?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisap112 View Post
Spoiler: show
HOLY SHIT ARAKI (REDHEAD) IS DEAD WHY WHY WHY?! He was my favorite character!
Spoiler: show
Do we know that he's dead?

Though the contrast/comparisons between him and Ryuunosuke from F/Z both in terms of character development and purpose continue to be surprising.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:54 PM   #64
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Do we know that he's dead?
Spoiler: show
Assuming he was hit with a Dominator on Lethal Mode...yes. That Chinese dude exploded right next to him too, so how exactly would he counter that same effect from happening to him?

...unless he was also a robot and SO MUCH POTENTIAL FOR BAD SCRIPT-WRITING HERE.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:09 PM   #65
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So, about that Episode 16 ...

Spoiler: show
OH. MY. GOD. That was awesome! Where do we even start ...


Kagari's Death: let's start here, I guess. Kagari Shuusei died. To be honest, the episode made it preeeeeeeeetty obvious that this was probably going to happen. ^^; First off, Gen has the team split up and has Kagari all on his own. That's classic for killing off an officer. Second, Kagari is outnumbered 4-against-1 vs. Kougami and Akane being outnumbered 4-against-2. Third, the moment the director/animation team showed that close-up of Kagari's face as Kougami was talking to him from the elevator (pictured above), I was like, "That's it. It's official. Kagari's dying this episode." That picture totally gives it away! I was happy to see him survive against all of those thugs, but all episode long I was expecting him to die. (I just never in a million years would've guessed that that's how he was going to die. ^^; ) I'll discuss the details of his death more below, when we discuss the intrigue surrounding his killer. But suffice to say ... neuuuuuu! Kagari's dead! He was such a sweet boy young man! (Even if he was a tad depraved and placed little value on the lives of criminals. ^^;; "LET'S JUST RUN 'EM OVER!")


Shinya vs. Makishima: Like Kaisap mentioned, I called that we would see this fight in either Episode 16, 17, or 18. But to be honest, I didn't expect that we'd see it this week! Of those three guesses, my ranking would've been something like 18 > 17 > 16 or 17 > 18 > 16. Regardless, even though I thought 16 was a possibility, I figured, "Naaaaah, Gen and the team'll stretch things out 'til next week. " So I was pleasantly surprised to see this fight wrapped up this week.

I was glad that not too much time was wasted on this fight, given that it doesn't end up being the biggest deal of the series (or even of the episode!). It was a fine fight, but it wrapped up about as quickly as you might expect a fight between two such men in real life to wrap up.

lol @ the Pascal and Ortega references. Although I must confess, I am not familiar with the writings of José Ortega y Gasset; and I can't seem to find a connection between him and Pascal at all. I did find a connection between him and Descartes though:
Quote:
For Ortega y Gasset, the Cartesian 'cogito ergo sum' is insufficient to explain reality.
Maybe Gen goofed and meant to say Descartes instead of Pascal. Or maybe Ortega y Gasset did mention not trusting men who quote Pascal. Or maybe, just maybe, the Ortega Gen invoked isn't the Ortega I just looked up. ^^; Anyway ...


Akane: the cutest button of an Inspector just keeps getting more beautiful and more awesome with each passing week. God, I love Akane to pieces now. I even thought to myself, "She is so beautiful! " when that picture above came on screen. While well-animated, her face wasn't always so pretty this episode: she made a series of ugly faces (1, 2, 3) when contemplating whether to bash Makishima's skull in with the helmet she held in her hands or not. But those ugly faces were perfect for a scene like this: they showed true, raw emotion on Akane's face, and showed us that even our "my Psycho-Pass never clouds! :3" inspector has it in her to think some truly dark things. Even if those dark thoughts are kind of contextually appropriate when they're directed towards your best friend's killer.


Sibyl's Secret & the Chief: DUN DUN DUUUUUUN! In hindsight, Gen hinted at this with that one end-of-episode scene where the Chief is staring towards her monitor and things are blazing by at like a million miles an hour and her eyes look really glassy and have blue light reflecting in them. But like, I figured she was a cyborg. Or that she was a regular human and was just "jacked in" to the Internet. I never in a million years suspected, "No, in fact, she's 100% robot." That's crazy. And it totally ups the ante.

First off, EX FUCKING DEE at the level to which Gen is now ripping off drawing inspiration from Philip K. Dick. In Dick's Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, famously adapted to film as the movie Blade Runner, we have a world where robotics has advanced so much that it is quite difficult to tell humans apart from robots. Dick, no doubt inspired by Isaac Asimov before him -- will we be hearing this name dropped in the coming weeks? Oh, I do hope so! -- confronts humanity's fear of robots supplanting them, though the authors approach that fear in different ways. Well, Gen asks us here to imagine with Psycho-Pass a world where "the robots have already won" in that they have already infiltrated the very highest levels of government and have crafted a society which rules Man with the sort of cold, emotionless logic we could ascribe only to a robot. The question in Gen's work is not "How do we prevent the robot takeover?" (Asimov) / "infiltration?" (Dick) but instead is "How do we oust our robot overlords?" In this sense, it perhaps bears more similarity to the Wachowski Brothers' The Matrix trilogy.

Second, now we know why the Chief is so pissed / eager to get men like Makishima. And now we know why they want those men alive rather than dead! They want to get their hands on those men 1) because those types of humans are the thorns in their robot sides, the .000001% of humanity who the Sybil System doesn't work on; and 2) because they want to research those individuals' brains and bodies to try and further improve the Sybil System. In other words, Makishima is worth more to them alive than dead precisely because they plan to operate on him or subject him to other horrific medical experiments in order to try and upgrade Sybil to be able to correctly gauge the Criminal Coefficient of folks like him.

Third, what does this mean for Tsunemori Akane? :o Is Sybil aware that Akane is one of those rare people whom Sybil cannot correctly scan? (And if Sybil is aware, is the Chief thus aware?) If so, does Sybil merely see Akane as a tool by which to round up men like Makishima? Did the robot overlords of the world of Psycho-Pass study Akane from birth and determine, "She's the one. The Chosen One who shall bring us men like Makishima Shougo because she shares their special gift but, unlike them, she is a docile sheep who will do whatever we tell her is the right thing to do"? Is that the case? If it is, does that mean that the robots plan to dissect Akane's brain once she's outlived her usefulness to them? Oh no! Save her, Kougami! Save your droopy-eyed princess, you spiky-haired, blue-eyed knight in shining armor, you!

Fourth, Makishima's Korean friend indicated that in his home country, they don't have anything like Japan's Sybil System. This begs the question then: are the other countries of the world still ruled by humans, and only Japan is ruled by robot overlords? Or have the robots infiltrated other countries' governing bodies as well and it's just that they don't implement the Sybil System anywhere but Japan?


As for her killing of Kagari, it's such an important scene for the narrative. On the one hand, there's the obvious aspect: motive. Clearly, she killed him to cover up the truth, whether that be the truth behind the Sybil System, the truth behind her (since he clearly saw what she is), or both. But on the other hand, there's the not so obvious things. For example, the fact that the Dominators can in fact be used as ordinary guns (i.e. they can be used with lethal force against targets whose Criminal Coefficients are not sufficiently high for lethal force to be used against them) implies that someone later on may find a way to disarm the failsafe and use a Dominator against an illegal target. Perhaps that'll be Kougami against the Chief. Perhaps it'll be Akane against Makishima. Who knows, who knows. But the point is, this opens up the possibility for a re-visit of Episode 11's climax but with a radically different ending. Something else the Chief's murder of Kagari brings up is the fact that these robots do not obey Asimov's three laws of robotics:
Quote:
1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.
This is something that I am sure will be brought up once it comes to light that the Chief and other rulers of this country are robots. Gen won't be able to resist! "I can't have them thinking I'm some country bumpkin who hasn't read the works of Isaac Asimov!"

I could keep writing more, but I actually have to go soon. ^^; So I'll wrap up this post real fast by addressing the conversation I see unfolding between Kaisap and Yuki above.

Spoiler: show
Yuki, I'm pretty sure that Kagari was killed. The Dominator was initially in tranquilizer mode when the Chief pointed it at him, and the Psycho-Pass staff were kind enough to let us know by allowing us to hear the Dominator's voice. Then we see the gun start to morph shape and the Dominator's voice get all fragmented. The implication seems to be that the Chief overrode the Dominator's failsafe mechanism, converting it from tranquilizer mode to explosively lethal mode. As for why he would be killed, well, see my discussion above.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:42 PM   #66
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So, about that Episode 16 ...

Spoiler: show
Kagari's Death: let's start here, I guess. Kagari Shuusei died. To be honest, the episode made it preeeeeeeeetty obvious that this was probably going to happen. ^^; First off, Gen has the team split up and has Kagari all on his own. That's classic for killing off an officer. Second, Kagari is outnumbered 4-against-1 vs. Kougami and Akane being outnumbered 4-against-2. Third, the moment the director/animation team showed that close-up of Kagari's face as Kougami was talking to him from the elevator (pictured above), I was like, "That's it. It's official. Kagari's dying this episode." That picture totally gives it away! I was happy to see him survive against all of those thugs, but all episode long I was expecting him to die. (I just never in a million years would've guessed that that's how he was going to die. ^^; ) I'll discuss the details of his death more below, when we discuss the intrigue surrounding his killer. But suffice to say ... neuuuuuu! Kagari's dead! He was such a sweet boy young man! (Even if he was a tad depraved and placed little value on the lives of criminals. ^^;; "LET'S JUST RUN 'EM OVER!")
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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
I could keep writing more, but I actually have to go soon. ^^; So I'll wrap up this post real fast by addressing the conversation I see unfolding between Kaisap and Yuki above.

Spoiler: show
Yuki, I'm pretty sure that Kagari was killed. The Dominator was initially in tranquilizer mode when the Chief pointed it at him, and the Psycho-Pass staff were kind enough to let us know by allowing us to hear the Dominator's voice. Then we see the gun start to morph shape and the Dominator's voice get all fragmented. The implication seems to be that the Chief overrode the Dominator's failsafe mechanism, converting it from tranquilizer mode to explosively lethal mode. As for why he would be killed, well, see my discussion above.
Spoiler: show
For some reason I never got the impression throughout the episode that he was going to die, and was confused as to what happened at the end when I saw it. I'm still gonna hold off calling conclusions until there's confirmation of his death, just in case. Heck, considering Dominators cause the victims to asplode, I might not even buy body bits as hard proof - especially since the Korean guy went *splat* in such close proximity. (Yeah, they probably have advanced DNA testing, but I'm just not gonna jump the gun yet.)

Note: Not holding out false hope he's alive or anything, I'm only saying anything's possible. Maybe there's even a memory wipe setting or something.


Which leads me into...

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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Spoiler: show

Akane: the cutest button of an Inspector just keeps getting more beautiful and more awesome with each passing week. God, I love Akane to pieces now. I even thought to myself, "She is so beautiful! " when that picture above came on screen. While well-animated, her face wasn't always so pretty this episode: she made a series of ugly faces (1, 2, 3) when contemplating whether to bash Makishima's skull in with the helmet she held in her hands or not. But those ugly faces were perfect for a scene like this: they showed true, raw emotion on Akane's face, and showed us that even our "my Psycho-Pass never clouds! :3" inspector has it in her to think some truly dark things. Even if those dark thoughts are kind of contextually appropriate when they're directed towards your best friend's killer.
Calling it now.

Spoiler: show
Akane is a robot. *shot*

Hey, I still think she might be a villain. That blood from the bullet hole is just meant to throw us off.


Also, since when were you such a fan of Akane? I swear, what is it about that pale tomboy face that attracts guys? >.>;

Oh, in all the excitement over the ending, I forgot what I was going to make fun of!

Spoiler: show
How the heck did Kogami not think that Makishima would mess up the cymatic scan readings anyway? When he pulled out the helmet for Akane I was like, "Uh... How will that help? =/" Then when she got shot and he realized his mistake I was like, "No shit, Shinlock."


Also! For kaisap (and Talon as well since we all know what he thought of 12):

Spoiler: show
Is it just me, or did the rooftop fight give off yaoi vibes? ;O *shot repeatedly*

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Old 02-08-2013, 08:50 PM   #67
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Also! For kaisap (and Talon as well since we all know what he thought of 12):

Spoiler: show
Is it just me, or did the rooftop fight give off yaoi vibes? ;O *shot repeatedly*
It totally did! *fangirl squeal*
Spoiler: show
I'm pretty sure Makishima's some sort of yaoi-archtype, the non-macho enigmatic type. I bet Kogami would be the top in that relationship. *shot repeatedly*
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:55 PM   #68
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It totally did! *fangirl squeal*
Spoiler: show
I'm pretty sure Makishima's some sort of yaoi-archtype, the non-macho enigmatic type. I bet Kogami would be the top in that relationship. *shot repeatedly*
Spoiler: show
Nah, pretty sure Makishima would be seme/sadist who takes pleasure in being able to dominate Mr. macho Kogami and make him cry.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:36 AM   #69
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Also, since when were you such a fan of Akane? I swear, what is it about that pale tomboy face that attracts guys? >.>;
I wouldn't say she looks like a tomboy (much less acts like one), but this could just be me and my semantical feelings of the day. She does have a bit of a boyish look virtue of her super short hair cut, but even her hair cut is feminized (and cutely so) by those hime-style sidelocks. Admittedly, I don't like boyish-looking women (or by extension boyish hairstyles like Akane's chili bowl haircut with buzzcut nape of neck), but Akane looks just feminine enough to get a pass.

What really sells Akane though is what's inside. It's hard not to fall in love with a girl who is so good-hearted, so sincere, so just, and someone who hangs in there and tries her personal best in any situation. When she smiles, she melts your heart. (Except when she's doing that creepy smile in Episode 01! XD) When she gets angry, you're like "WHOA! " And when she cries, you're like "Awww. " Good signs that Gen's made such waifubait a likeable character.

But no, I doubt my fanship of Akane approaches the "MINE! " strong initial attraction of Midgeorge and Doppelganger towards her.

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Also! For kaisap (and Talon as well since we all know what he thought of 12):

Spoiler: show
Is it just me, or did the rooftop fight give off yaoi vibes? ;O *shot repeatedly*
Not at all. I'm starting to think that either your gaydar is busted or else that Gen and I operate from the same gaydar wavelength. 'Cause I'm pretty sure he intended that simply as a fight to the death between two men without the least bit of attraction towards one another, and I certainly didn't feel there was any. Would be like asking me if I felt gay vibes from Batman and Ra's al-Ghul when they fought in Batman Begins. (That'd be a no, Detective. )
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:53 AM   #70
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What really sells Akane though is what's inside. It's hard not to fall in love with a girl who is so good-hearted, so sincere, so just, and someone who hangs in there and tries her personal best in any situation. When she smiles, she melts your heart. (Except when she's doing that creepy smile in Episode 01! XD) When she gets angry, you're like "WHOA! " And when she cries, you're like "Awww. " Good signs that Gen's made such waifubait a likeable character.
Because she's written by Gen is exactly why I don't trust her, or anything that happens in this series. C'mon, Gen, surprise me. (Even better, shock me. I know you're capable of that.) I'm still holding out for something to make this show "great" rather than just "good" at best.

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Not at all. I'm starting to think that either your gaydar is busted or else that Gen and I operate from the same gaydar wavelength. 'Cause I'm pretty sure he intended that simply as a fight to the death between two men without the least bit of attraction towards one another, and I certainly didn't feel there was any. Would be like asking me if I felt gay vibes from Batman and Ra's al-Ghul when they fought in Batman Begins. (That'd be a no, Detective. )
It's two against one on both counts. Pretty sure we're the ones in sync with Gen's wavelength.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:23 PM   #71
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Perhaps he will surprise you by sheer virtue of doing what we all say he's doing and not what you're so convinced he will do. Something tells me you'll be displeased no matter what as a result because he can only do one of these two things:
  1. surprise you by not doing what you expect. You then cry foul that that's dumb and he should've done what you were thinking.
  2. not surprise you by doing the very thing you predicted he'd do. You then cry foul that he's gone and bored you by being so predictable.
Maaaaaaaaaaybe instead of asking him to surprise you, you should ask yourself what it is precisely that you'd like to see happen -- and then deliver him the 'grats he deserves if he should so do that.

Me? I'm perfectly happy to keep on thinking that ...

Episode 16 major spoiler:
Spoiler: show
Akane is not a robot. I actually briefly considered it last night, just like you have, but I dismissed it, ironically, when I read your own paragraph about it. 'Cause you bring up the blood, and I think that's a very good point. If the robots want to slip into society without being detected, why would they only make some of their models as lifelike as Akane and not all of their models? Why have the chief of police be a bloodless Terminator but have Akane bleed, cry, and sweat? Ditto for Makishima and the others with clean Psycho-Passes. No, I reject the theory that she is a robot. Or rather, I don't reject it outright -- it's still possible -- but I table it for now in favor of more likely theories.

I think it's far more likely that Akane and Makishima are bonafide "2 out of every million" human deviants who the robots' scans don't properly work on. They want to apprehend these individuals so that they can study their brains and biochemistries in order to upgrade the Sybil System such that it now works on those 2 out of a million too.

Could Akane be a robot though? Sure. There are various little hints in hindsight should it be true, hints like how we've never seen her family (not even any pictures of them), we've not seen her do much of anything recreationally (she's gone on luncheons with her two friends from school but that could be something she's programmed to do to maintain the ruse that she's human; in the privacy of her own home, we haven't seen her play games or paint or play music), etc. But the thing is, there are just as many little signs that she's likely real. She sleeps in a real bed (instead of a stasis chamber or something). Her brain was scanned by Shion using the same techniques used on other humans. (You could argue her robo-brain has the exact same architecture and composition as a human brain but ...)

I guess what I'd reemphasize is, one can't solidly rule the theory out, but neither do I think there's gobs of evidence that Gen plans to go down that path. It doesn't make much sense to me that Akane should be a loyal robot but that Makishima should be a deviant robot. Or that only the criminals are human but that loyal Akane is the one and only character with a clean Psycho-Pass we've seen who is a robot. And it doesn't make sense to me that Akane had to be kept in the dark about her robot superpowers and her robot agenda for the sake of optimally carrying out her mission. Seems very contrived, and would more than likely result in a docked point from Psycho-Pass's final score. Not to mention it's quite "been there, done that" in science fiction to have the protagonist in a humans vs. robots story himself be a robot without realizing it until the very end. Would be disappointed in Gen if that's what he has planned.

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Old 02-09-2013, 12:38 PM   #72
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Perhaps he will surprise you by sheer virtue of doing what we all say he's doing and not what you're so convinced he will do. Something tells me you'll be displeased no matter what as a result because he can only do one of these two things:
  1. surprise you by not doing what you expect. You then cry foul that that's dumb and he should've done what you were thinking.
  2. not surprise you by doing the very thing you predicted he'd do. You then cry foul that he's gone and bored you by being so predictable.
Maaaaaaaaaaybe instead of asking him to surprise you, you should ask yourself what it is precisely that you'd like to see happen -- and then deliver him the 'grats he deserves if he should so do that.
I know what I'm saying is contradictory. I just feel like it's the "Gen" thing to do, and want to have bragging rights should it come to (psycho-)pass. Depending on how he handles it, I could still say "wow".

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Me? I'm perfectly happy to keep on thinking that ...

Episode 16 major spoiler:
Spoiler: show
Akane is not a robot. I actually briefly considered it last night, just like you have, but I dismissed it, ironically, when I read your own paragraph about it. 'Cause you bring up the blood, and I think that's a very good point. If the robots want to slip into society without being detected, why would they only make some of their models as lifelike as Akane and not all of their models? Why have the chief of police be a bloodless Terminator but have Akane bleed, cry, and sweat? Ditto for Makishima and the others with clean Psycho-Passes. No, I reject the theory that she is a robot. Or rather, I don't reject it outright -- it's still possible -- but I table it for now in favor of more likely theories.

I think it's far more likely that Akane and Makishima are bonafide "2 out of every million" human deviants who the robots' scans don't properly work on. They want to apprehend these individuals so that they can study their brains and biochemistries in order to upgrade the Sybil System such that it now works on those 2 out of a million too.

Could Akane be a robot though? Sure. There are various little hints in hindsight should it be true, hints like how we've never seen her family (not even any pictures of them), we've not seen her do much of anything recreationally (she's gone on luncheons with her two friends from school but that could be something she's programmed to do to maintain the ruse that she's human; in the privacy of her own home, we haven't seen her play games or paint or play music), etc. But the thing is, there are just as many little signs that she's likely real. She sleeps in a real bed (instead of a stasis chamber or something). Her brain was scanned by Shion using the same techniques used on other humans. (You could argue her robo-brain has the exact same architecture and composition as a human brain but ...)

I guess what I'd reemphasize is, one can't solidly rule the theory out, but neither do I think there's gobs of evidence that Gen plans to go down that path. It doesn't make much sense to me that Akane should be a loyal robot but that Makishima should be a deviant robot. Or that only the criminals are human but that loyal Akane is the one and only character with a clean Psycho-Pass we've seen who is a robot. And it doesn't make sense to me that Akane had to be kept in the dark about her robot superpowers and her robot agenda for the sake of optimally carrying out her mission. Seems very contrived, and would more than likely result in a docked point from Psycho-Pass's final score. Not to mention it's quite "been there, done that" in science fiction to have the protagonist in a humans vs. robots story himself be a robot without realizing it until the very end. Would be disappointed in Gen if that's what he has planned.
Spoiler: show
I wouldn't go so far to say Makishima is necessarily a robot as well, but he could be a rogue one. In fact... Couldn't the very reason they don't want him dead is because they're afraid someone will discover the circuitry inside?

And considering how much Gen has already ripped off Dick, I wouldn't put it past him to turn the series into Blade Runner.

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Old 02-09-2013, 12:53 PM   #73
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Some more thoughts in addition to the above. Still Ep16 spoilers:
Spoiler: show
One logical argument in favor of the Robo-Akane theory is that if Akane were a human, and if the robots knew about her Psycho-Pass resiliency, and if they really do want Makishima et al alive so that they can study their brains and try to upgrade Sybil, then why wouldn't the robot overlords simply make off with Akane? Why not abduct her and study her brain? The answer would seem to be, they would: and so since they have not, we can reject the theory that Akane is human.

However, the rebuttal to this argument may be that the robots strongly subscribe to their own legal code, and their code tells them that they may not operate on innocent human beings. Makishima is fair game because he has killed people and aided other murderers in their crimes. But Akane is untouchable because she hasn't done anything to deserve being killed.

The counter-argument to this might be, "Well what about Kagari? Why is it okay for the robots to kill him to preserve their secret but not to abduct and possibly operate on Akane in order to unravel the secrets of her brain?"

But the counter-argument to that is, "What about Kagari? He was a latent criminal. Akane is not. Sybil may have decided, i.e. the robots may believe, that it is okay to dispense with latent criminals as necessary but that it is not okay to do the same to law-abiding citizens." Alternatively, "the robots' code may make a special self-preservational exception for cases when someone has discovered Sybil's true form; and so they felt obliged to kill Kagari; but since Akane hasn't made any such discoveries, she's still off the table as far as abducting her and studying her brain goes."

On and on this game of logic chess goes. What I hope you can appreciate from it is that the jury is very much out on the theory that Akane is a sleeper agent robot. She could be one; she could also not be one.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:19 PM   #74
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I wouldn't go so far to say Makishima is necessarily a robot as well, but he could be a rogue one. In fact... Couldn't the very reason they don't want him dead is because they're afraid someone will discover the circuitry inside?

And considering how much Gen has already ripped off Dick, I wouldn't put it past him to turn the series into Blade Runner.
It would be pretty ironic if:

Episode 16 spoilers
Spoiler: show
The man who says he most wants to free humanity from the shackles of its cyberpunk dystopian existence, the man who says he most wants to understand humanity, the man who is most well-read in human literature, is himself not a man at all but instead a rogue robot. If he's aware of that, cool; but if he's not aware of it, MAN OH MAN if/when he finds out!

An important argument against Makishima being a robot though is ... okay, first consider that he's been loose for at least three years (since Sasayama's death minimum). As such, he should have cut or injured himself by now. A knife wound to the chest by a double-crosser. A rusty nail to the foot. Boiling hot water to the skin. Something. Some sort of injury. Now, in a regular human, that'd heal! But in a robot, you might not expect it to heal. The robots get repaired back at robot headquarters, perhaps. Or they get scrapped if their injuries are severe enough and replaced by a new robot (maybe with their same memories). But Makishima seems to be perfectly fine, so ...

Also, say he knew he was a robot. Why then wouldn't he have led an army of men into the Nona Tower's basement? Why only bring one Korean and six stooges? Wouldn't he know Sybil's secret? And wouldn't he want everyone to see it?

But sure, he could be a robot. One, it could explain his Psycho-Pass score. If the 2 out of every 1,000,000 aren't really human aberrants but are actually robots living amongst humans, then sure, Makishima could be one such robot. Two, being a robot means he doesn't have the same sort of energy demands (?) as humans do, so he can't be apprehended as easily as humans, perhaps. Three, if he were a robot, it could explain his lean and mean martial arts prowess. Why he beat Kougami, why he can take on multiple assailants all at once, etc.

Y'know, I just realized something ...

Episode 16 spoilers
Spoiler: show
Those EMP hand grenades?

One, watch those be used to determine who is a robot and who's not. 'Cause shouldn't they screw with the robots' bodies? (Come to think of it, this may already prove that Akane isn't a robot. Because she was in the squad car when Kougami used one, and she didn't seem affected by it in the slightest.)

Two, watch Gen's bit with "Don't you dare use them on top of Nona Tower! You'll knock out the antenna! They'll kill us if you do that!" be an OH SO CONVENIENT plot point if, if, Makishima should turn out to be a robot. 'Cause that cat would've been out of the bag this very episode had Kougami used one on top of the tower. So in order to not create a gaping plot hole later when (if) it's revealed that Makishima is a robot, he concocted the bit about the antenna as a convenient excuse for why Kougami didn't use the EMP grenade at that time.

These two things stated, I still think Makishima's odds of being a robot are a out as good as Akane's: possible, but not my preferred theory.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:17 PM   #75
Talon87
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How did I miss this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbluecorsola View Post

It's two against one on both counts. Pretty sure we're the ones in sync with Gen's wavelength.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ...

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