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Old 05-15-2008, 11:18 PM   #1
Talon87
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Phoenix Wright 2

We've got a thread for Ace Attorney / ???? 3, but I figured I'd just start this tiny one up for #2 because after a year of putting it off I finally picked up where I left off, Case 4-2, and finished the game.

Until this morning, I was under the impression that the case was as good as done and I only had one or two more pieces of evidence to present to Adrian. Little did I know that I would spend ~4-6 hours today wrapping it up ...

Spoiler: show
... finishing 4-2 and discovering there was a 4-3, 4-4, and 4-5 to follow, not to mention the mini epilogue.

Speaking of which! Man, I loved that scene with Franziska in tears! At the risk of sounding like a weeaboo, ...... MOE~! ^______^ Oh my God! Edgeworth x Franziska forever! ;) Phoenix is a harder one to root for (do I go yaoi with Edgeworth? busty with Mia? or "jailbait soulmate" -- hey, it rhymes! -- with Maya?), but the Edgeworth x Franziska one is an obvious pairing and it was just so effing awesome to finally have her show her vulnerable ?? side after so much ????-ing it up throughout the game.

So yeah. Thoughts!
  • From what I can remember when I started this game up last February (2007), I really enjoyed Case #2 a lot but strongly disliked (if not hated) Cases #1 and #3.
  • New favorite characters would definitely be (1) Pearl (no contest), (2) the primary culprit in Case #2 (the one "Dr. Hotti" had the hots for), and that's about it.
  • Yeah. Seems like this game heavily relied on nostalgia from Game #1, bringing us old favorites like Mia Fey and Gumshoe as well as old "hated favorites" like Wendy Oldbag and Lotta the tabloid photographer. As a huge fan of the first game, I'm all for the nostalgia trips, but I would agree that the overdose of nostalgia leaves the impression that Game #2 lives in Game #1's shadow big time.
  • I noticed that (for me) the microphone on the DS seemed to work a lot better with this title than it did with the first Phoenix Wright title, but I didn't like using it -- every time I tried I wound up having to turn off the DS and go back because I had been so focused on yelling that I had completely missed the critical text that followed. Guess I'm just a quiet gamer who gets in the zone quietly.
  • Case #4 was pretty impressive, but there were a lot of times I got lucky it turns out (I checked to see what other endings were possible and it looks like you either had to make some of the decisions I made or you failed outright), and I also could never accept the failure of the Fey pendant to detect the malice in [the ultimate culprit]. I'm sorry, but arguing that [that person] technically didn't lie when asked if they'd killed anybody is fucking weak, and I think the game's writers knew that and didn't want to press the issue.
  • In fact, I gotta say that while I was a fan of Psyche-Locks initially (Case 2 especially), I really came to view them ambivalently by the end of the game. On the one hand, they brought the fun of the courtroom to the outside world, allowing us to present evidence to people and try to play Sherlock Holmes. On the other hand, they also brought the dark side of the courtroom to the outside world, making it possible to get a Game Over (and encouraging an addictive behavior of "Save before asking, test-ask, reset DS, load file back up, and ask again") while exploring the outside world.
Overall, I really enjoyed this game, although it wasn't as magical as when I played the first one. I don't think it's this game's fault, though: I think it did what the first game did right and then some, but it just wasn't enough to accommodate for the "OMG this is fucking awesome" novelty factor one gets when first playing the original Phoenix Wright. When I played PW1 for the first time, I couldn't get over how it was the fusion of some great Law & Order episode plots with otaku humor and anime-styled character design. When I played PW2 for the first time, it was simply "the sequel to PW1."

Last edited by Talon87; 10-03-2012 at 06:00 PM. Reason: fixed formatting in post, put spoilers into spoiler boxes
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Old 05-16-2008, 06:10 PM   #2
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Re: Phoenix Wright 2

Ya the second game was pretty good and still the longest one of them all to date!

Case 4 > Case 2 > Case 1 > Case 3

Really I liked all of the cases in this one but that'd be my ranking. I think everyone puts the Berry Big case last but that doesn't mean it was bad!
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Old 05-16-2008, 06:28 PM   #3
Talon87
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Re: Phoenix Wright 2

I think we agree.

It's been so long since I played Cases 1, 2, and 3 -- so long that I'm not sure if I liked 2 more than 4, which would make us almost agree. 4 is great because we finally get some closure on the whole "Miles Edgeworth chooses death" storyline and damn if it isn't kickass, but 2 is also great because it feature all three Fey sisters so heavily and Pearl's introduction is just so damn priceless. Cutest. Little Girl Character. Ever. And when I read the English localizations and backwards-translate to what I figure the original Japanese probably said, I gotta say that she's even cuter in English. (Some of the Japanese ones just sound downright annoying, e.g. ???????????? vs. "What's a kom-pyuu-ter?")

But based on where I'm standing to today and from what I can remember today, yeah, I would have to say 4 2 1 3. Case #3 just sucked balls. I hated Regina. I disliked Max. I hated the ventriloquist. I loathed the clown. And the native American acrobat-turned-paraplegic was both depressing and introduced far far too late.
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Old 05-28-2008, 11:22 PM   #4
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Re: Phoenix Wright 2

It doesn't help that
Spoiler: show
once you see Acro you pretty much know he's the killer


Anyways, I played through PW 2 and 3 in succession after playing through PW 1. I dunno, after all is said and done, I'd probably rank PW 1 and 3 above PW 2, but it's still a fun title. Yeah, I'm a big fan of Pearl as well, and it sucks that Capcom stopped doing stuff with the Fey sisters after they began remaking the titles for the DS. I'm hoping for a reappearance of them in GS 5, or maybe even the GK spinoff that's coming out.

As far as the cases go, 4 was epic, but perhaps too much so. I literally spent an entire day just trying to play through it. I may have to put Case 2 above Case 4, but they're about equal. I still have to play through it again, though. Both of my sister's beaten the game multiple times.
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Old 06-14-2008, 01:36 AM   #5
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Re: Phoenix Wright 2

I though Fransizka was really annoying especially when she kept whipping folks like mad. That said it wasn't too bad, Dr. Hotti pwns, and it was cool how the last case ended.
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:56 PM   #6
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Yes, yes I did: after completing my replay of Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, I decided "Oh why the hell not? " and pressed on to replaying the second title in the series, Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Justice for All. I decided to hold off on posting about it until I was sure I'd be replaying it; after all, I could get part of the way through the first case and decide, "No, I'm a bit burned out on Phoenix Wright for right now ^^; , I think I'll put this down and come back to it later." But right now I'm roughly a fifth of the way through Case 2 (the first day of court is just about to start following an unusually long yet wonderful opening act) so I figured I'd go ahead and write in with my initial thoughts and impressions.

The first thing which really jumped out at me about the sequel was how they completely changed the soundtrack. Characters like Dick Gumshoe still have their unique theme songs intact but pretty much all of the courtroom melodies have been swapped out for new compositions. While I can appreciate Capcom's desire to keep things fresh -- or their composer's desire to keep his job ^^; -- I definitely miss the songs from the first game. None of the replacements are as good. Below I'll try and list the songs by when they show up in each game:As you can see, each and every last one of these phases in the game got a new song. And (at least in my opinion if not also in others') while each and every last one of these new songs is pleasant, not a single one of them is better than the songs they replaced. ^_^; I know I don't feel this way just because I put PW1 freshly down earlier this week either: because I remember feeling the exact same way five or so years ago when I first picked this game up and played it. Even though I only played PW1 once then (and now twice), I was always very nostalgic for the first game's jingles. They were just ... so ... good! Later games have introduced fine songs of their own but I don't think anything Capcom's produced has yet to trump the awesomeness of the original.

The second thing which really jumped out at me when I started to play PW2 was the fact that you can now present people's profiles in court and not just physical evidence. The reason this really surprised me ... was because I had somehow never noticed it was missing from the first game! ^^; Whoops? I mean, yeah, in hindsight I can completely see how not once did I ever present someone's profile in court ... but yeah, I never noticed it was gone. I guess this is a really funny inversion of the old saying "you never realize what you have until it's gone"? 'Cause in this case I never realized what I had lost until I got it back! XD

Other than those two things, the first case went about as expected. It was not a very interesting case -- dumb killer, meh defendant (sorry, Daisy ^^; ), really short and straightforward -- and I didn't care for the amnesia schtick since brain trauma isn't really a laughing matter and it bothers my own headcanon quite a lot to have had Phoenix completely forget Maya and the rest of his past since it begs the question "is the Phoenix we have now really the same as the Phoenix we had before? " (Not spoiler tagging that btw because you find it out in the first three minutes of the game! ) However, despite me not really caring for the case all that much, I pushed through it, solved it without any real hang-ups, and pressed on to ...

... one of the best cases in the history of the franchise, Game 2 Case 2. I'd forgotten a lot of details and so getting to rediscover them almost anew has been a really pleasant experience.

Pearl spoilers
Spoiler: show
I totally didn't remember that Pearl busted out the "you're Mystic Maya's 'special someone' *blush* " lines so early! As in, the moment he presents Maya's magatama to her and gets her to talk to him! XD That was so great. Right from the get-go Pearl has been unbelievably adorable. And I've already seen such a surprising range of her sprite emotions too -- serious face, mildly happy, super happy with hands on cheeks and blushing, surprised & gasping, meek & sad, and gung ho serious with her pulling her sleeve up her one arm like she's ready to clobber some people. I didn't expect that I'd see so many of these so soon. A real treat to see my favorite character back in action, someone I haven't had the pleasure of seeing since {the time I completed the last game in which Pearl appears}.

Not much else to say at the moment since either you know the plot of this case (in which case you don't need me recapping it) or else you don't (in which case you won't be reading my spoilers) so I'll just wrap up this post for now by saying that it's been really pleasurable so far, one of the most pleasant investigation phases I've ever had in any of the games, and I'm ready to head on in to court and see what surprises await me there.

Last edited by Talon87; 10-05-2012 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
The first thing which really jumped out at me about the sequel was how they completely changed the soundtrack. Characters like Dick Gumshoe still have their unique theme songs intact but pretty much all of the courtroom melodies have been swapped out for new compositions. While I can appreciate Capcom's desire to keep things fresh -- or their composer's desire to keep his job ^^; -- I definitely miss the songs from the first game. None of the replacements are as good. Below I'll try and list the songs by when they show up in each game:
I personally prefer JFA's Courtroom at Rest, Calm Testimony, and Detention Center. Everything else goes to AA though.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:06 PM   #8
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Been a while since I've posted here. Been a while since I last played! But I've shelved some other distractions to resume Case 2 and I have a quote to share!

Spoiler: show
Phoenix: Phew, that was a close one!
Maya: I know you were giving it your all to defend me. But I could feel the death penalty hanging in the air ...
Phoenix: I felt like I was pretty close to dying myself ...
Pearl: But you were wonderful out there. *hands to face* You listened carefully, made theories, and tricked everyone into believing you.

Ohhhh Pearl. You are too sweet.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:58 PM   #9
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Completed Case 2. Unfortunately it wasn't able to excite me until the very end. I remembered every single plot twist and because of that all of the plot twist-based drama for much of the courtroom proceedings on the final day in court weren't able to get me as excited as some of the cases in Game 1 had managed to do with less. However, once the big finale plot twist (which I also remembered) came out, that at least was able to excite me on appeals to emotion alone. The final change of character sprite for the culprit (shown below) as well as just hearing her testify brought me the closest to a "HEEEEEEERE WE GO! " rush that I'd gotten since picking this back up.

That stated, I do still stand by what I've said before. I feel like Case 2 lives up to how I remember it and, if the next two cases are anything like I remember them being as well, Case 2 will be the second best case or possibly even the best case of the entire game. It has a lot of strengths going for it (discussed below because spoilers) that allow it to tell a mystery of decent complexity without ever boring the player.

Spoiler: show
Culprit sprite:
Spoiler: show
(though I could've sworn it cycled quite a bit more slowly than this, but w/e)

One of the reasons why I think Case 2 works well is that it's a surprisingly jam-packed two-day case. Most of the cases are either somewhat sparse and only last one or two days or else they're jam-packed but go on for three days, many of which have insanely long court proceedings on the third and final day. But Game 2 Case 2 avoids that entirely. It's rich with a lot of stuff that happens but it never wastes your time. Like, I could've sworn the player went to the Hotti Clinic twice, maybe even three times before the case was up. So I was quite astonished to find when I went there that it was an in-and-out quickly done deal where I got what I came for, left, and then before I knew it I was in court proving my client's innocence, never to set foot in the clinic again.

The Fey Manor, despite obviously being the sort of thing which IRL would be large, is kept really small and simple. I think that even the layout of Global Studios (Game 1 Case 3) makes you jump through navigation hoops more than this one does. It is a really lean-'n'-mean map. Kurain Village bus stop, the dojo-esque main hall, that then leading to either the channeling chamber (dead end) or the Winding Way, and the Winding Way then leading to only one final room, the side room. One outdoor room (the bus stop) and four interior rooms and that's it, and the only one which is a four-room stretch (bus stop --> main hall --> winding way --> side room) is one you visit all of like two or three times all game. Not bad at all.

The case itself is also quite appealing. I think it was more powerful the first time I'd played and didn't know what the story was, but even on the revisit I could still appreciate the basic framework for what it was. Mini Miney is someone you can feel sorry for yet at the same time you ultimately are like, "But you did kill those patients. Sure, Dr. Gray overworked you but you're trying to pass the blame onto him instead of taking responsibility for what you did." Likewise with her sister she's so quick to blame Dr. Gray for drugging her. And the case makes it very, very interesting because it never tells you whether Mini's suspicions were true or not. Dr. Gray denies them the one time it ever comes up in conversation (when he's talking with Phoenix at Wright & Co. Offices in the very beginning) and that's all we ever find out from him. It doesn't seem like he'd benefit by trying to kill Mini, which makes us doubt Mini's claims that she was drugged. But who knows! It's one of those very "fucked up but interesting" cases where it seems like there's a bit of blame to go around every which way but you can't be certain how much goes to whom. The bit with Morgan Fey is just as interesting and follows a similar pattern. You feel bad for Morgan that she got skipped over, and you feel bad for her and Pearl considering that Pearl is by all accounts stronger than Maya, is reportedly stronger than Mia, and may even match or exceed Misty Fey in spiritual power, a true prodigy who comes along only once every century or so, but like ... that doesn't justify what Morgan has done. Jealousy is a very ugly thing and it drove Morgan to do something terrible to her niece (and thus indirectly to her sister as well).

Spoiler for the third Phoenix Wright game's final case:
Spoiler: show
Speaking of Morgan, I can definitely attest to the fact that Takumi Shu must have planned at least part of Game 3 Case 5 as far back as when he wrote Game 2 Case 2. Because Morgan's words at the end of Case 2 toooooooooootally set up for that case and are clearly, clearly not just meant as fangless cliffhanger words meant to leave open the possibility for a sequel. No. No no. Those words are not the words you write when trying to leave the door open a crack. Those words are the words you write when you leave the door wide open because you 100% intend to pass through it soon.

Overall, Case 2 was good and now it's onto the biggest black sheep case of the Phoenix Wright family until Game 4: the Berry Big Circus. ^^; Wish me luck.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:07 AM   #10
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I'm about to enter the courtroom for the last time in Case 3. Having replayed most of the case now these past few days, I remember why I disliked this case so much, at least in part.

(a mixture of details from all throughout the case; don't click until you've beaten the case, just to be safe)
Spoiler: show
Problem 1: Regina
I think she's ugly, quite frankly. ^^; Ugly face. Ugly hair style. Little girly girl body. Don't care for her behavior. Just ... totally repulsive. And yet she is pushed as some Madonna whom everyone likes, even Phoenix. Bothers me to no end.

Problem 2: the Suspects & the Culprit
The case does a great job, better than any up to this point, of making you suspect everyone involved as having been the killer. But then it shits all over your face by revealing in the 11th hour that the guy you just met in the 10th hour, Acro, is the culprit. It's like, really? ^^;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; It's not Moe or Ben or Regina, any one of the characters we've been interrogating for almost the entirety o the case ... but is instead Acro, the guy we just met?

To be honest, I feel like in the closing minutes of the investigation phase of this case you can see shadows of what must've been Takumi Shu's consideration of possibly writing it where Regina was the culprit. That nobody would've ever suspected it was Daddy's little angel, Little Miss Princess, who had gone and so cruelly offed her old man. But how would Takumi have written such a plot? Would he have had Regina want to elope with Trilo, a puppet, and had Mr. Berry say no which then resulted in Regina petulantly killing him so she could elope? No player would ever accept such a stupid plot. Should she have had him kill Mr. Berry because he put down Leon the Lion? Maybe ... but Takumi must've felt uncomfortable with the idea of presenting Regina as somebody who cared more about large cats than her own father. But I think you see a lot of shadows of this "Regina's the killer" blueprint in the game. Like how Regina doesn't seem the least bit sad that her dad has just been murdered. (Takumi later explains this as being Regina's belief that her dad became a star in the sky, "just like Leon," and that she'll see him one day again. Ummmmmm, yeah, but even people who believe in Heaven still cry their eyes out when their parents die. ) I think you can also see shadows of this "Regina's the killer" plot concept in Acro's very own character. Takumi Shu clearly wanted to at least partially preserve the shock value of having a child murder their own parent. So he ends up making Acro and Bat orphans and suggesting that Mr. Berry adopted them when they were still boys and they came to love him like a second father. The fact that Takumi did this with Acro and Bat but not with Trilo, Moe, or Max Galactica is I think a bit revealing: he did this because it helped Acro fill the void left by Regina when Takumi decided that he didn't want Regina being the killer after all. Finally, last but not least, you see another clue for this in Regina's role in Bat's own unfortunate accident. If memory serves (they haven't confirmed this yet so I could be wrong, but if memory serves!), Regina is the one who sprinkled pepper on the scarf Bat was wearing when he put his head inside of Leon's mouth. She thought it would be funny and didn't think it would result in Bat getting seriously injured. So like, Takumi still made Regina a partial villain in this case.

Moe and Trilo would've also been possible suspects were it not for the fact that they took the witness stand on the first day of courtroom proceedings and we all know that that can only mean one thing in an early Phoenix Wright game -- they're not the killer. Trilo could've been jealous of Max and upset with how Mr. Berry was basically making the circus all about Max. He might even have offed Mr. Berry if he asked for Regina's father's permission to marry her and Mr. Berry refused. Then there's Moe who is presented as being so off kilter that one wouldn't necessarily put anything past him. I don't think the case is as strong for them as it is for Regina but like ... Acro? You don't show us the killer ... until like 20 IRL minutes before I move on into the courtroom? Even Dee Vasquez (Game 1 Case 3) had more screentime before her day in court than Acro did!

Problem 3: the Characters
I really don't care for the character designs. *shot for aesthetic nitpicking* But seriously. Ben's character design looks very cheap. Can't explain it. He looks like a sprite that belongs on the cutting room floor. Very, very cheap. Moe looks like he's wearing pajamas ready for bed. Regina is boring. Just ... not a fan of the sprites. ^^; [/critic] The only one I like is Acro's. Acro's sprite is quite nice. The others ... not so much.

Problem 4: the Navigating Back and Forth
This is the first case since Game 1 Case 4 (or Case 5 if you want to count the bonus case) to send the player back and forth, back and forth, back and forth between areas trying to connect trigger clues with flag witnesses. But this case takes the cake as the worst offender yet: it's the first case which unapologetically makes you dick the fuck around and guess where you have to go next, forcing you to explore every single room every single turn. Always? No, not always. There are times when the case gives guided clues about where to go next. But this was the first case where out of fucking nowhere, with no clue given, I was expected to go back to the Detention Center to show Max some of the evidence I'd gathered so far just so I could obtain from him even more evidence with which I could further interrogate the troupe back at the circus. And this happened twice! It's like, are you frickin' kidding me? I'm all for solving a mystery and for the games not being so predictable and linear, but like, if you're going to do that then at least let us teleport from Location A to Location G rather than making us island hop A --> B --> C --> D --> E --> F --> G. I exaggerate a bit but this case seriously has you go, several times, like this: Cafeteria --> Big Top --> Entrance --> Detention Center and then back again so Detention Center --> Entrance --> Big Top --> Cafeteria. Even worse is when it makes you go Ringmaster's Office --> Big Top --> Entrance --> Lodging --> Acro and then Acro --> Lodging --> Entrance --> Big Top and then Big Top --> Entrance --> Lodging --> Acro again. Made me near about want to pull my hair out.

But it's not all bad. The motive of the killer for this case is interesting. So too is how the victim was killed and how the killer pulled it off. It's not nearly as annoying as I remembered it being. (I had remembered haaaaaaaaaating both Trilo and Moe when I first played. I disliked both this second time around too but I didn't revile either of them. Maybe because I knew to expect them? ^^; ) And it's also not nearly as long as I remembered it being. So I can't complain there either.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:49 PM   #11
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Could've sworn I posted in this thread after I beat Case 3. I guess not. ^^; So I guess I'll deal with that one first before diving into where I am in Case 4.

Case 3:
So, I definitely remembered some details wrong. ^^; I could have sworn that ...

Spoiler: show
The murder weapon was the chest itself. That Acro tossed it out the window, it landed on top of the ringmaster's head/neck and broke his neck, and then it fell it to the ground in front of him faster than he did, thus accidentally making it look like he had been investigating the chest when really it was the chest that was the murder weapon all along. Even when they brought up the matter of Max Galactica's statue, I only remembered that being relevant to how Acro fooled people into thinking Max was there -- something which I thought he had done deliberately! So I remembered that all wrong. The statue, of course, is the true murder weapon, and the whole bit about Moe mistaking the statue + cape for Max Galactica was an accident Acro couldn't have been luckier to have happened upon.

I also forgot just how much Acro is a culprit who the player really feels bad for. Even though he plotted to murder a teenage girl! You can really see why he hates this girl, this girl who has no concept of the line between play and life-or-death seriousness (see: pepper on the scarf), this girl who cost him his mobility and his brother's life. You can also see why he must feel terrible that instead of killing Regina it was his foster father, Mr. Berry, whom Acro killed instead. But like, I totally forgot that Phoenix & Co. felt so bad for the guy, and I forgot how even Edgeworth shows up in a cameo scene at the end and tells Gumshoe via telephone to try and persuade the prosecutor's office to give Acro a light sentence. As much as one likes Acro, WHAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAaaaaa t!? XFD Give him a light sentence? He not only plotted to murder a child, he did murder a grown man! And yet as a player you can't help but to feel "WOOOOOOOO YEAH! \o/" when you read Edgeworth say that.

In the end, Case 3 is probably my second to least favorite of the three and a half Game 2 cases I've played so far. Now that I've replayed most of the game, I can say that Case 3 is definitely worse than either Case 2 or Case 4. At the same time, though, I don't know that it's fair to say that it's worse than the tutorial case, Case 1. ^^; Maybe when I first played the game it was, because back then I didn't know what to expect and man oh man were several of the case's main characters so annoying and man oh man was the identity of the villain so unsatisfying, but coming back to the game years later and already on guard against those insults, they weren't so bad the second time around. Certainly better than the stupid Maggey Byrde case which had a retarded villain, a wtf crime, was laughably short (of course it is a tutorial case though), and had the lame Winston Payne in the driver's seat for the prosecution.

Case 4:
So on to Case 4, the final case of the game and one hell of a long one. I can't describe where I am without spoilers and I'm not spoiler tagging this, so I'll just hazard a guess that I'm anywhere from 33% to 40% of the way through the case. Oh screw it:

Spoiler: show
We just returned to the office after our first day in court. The witnesses today were Dick Gumshoe, Wendy Oldbag, and Adrian Andrews.

So far, the case is okay but it's not quite as good as I remember it being. I think part of the reason for this is because what really sells this case is its significant ending and of course I'm nowhere near that still. But I think it may also just be that this case more heavily relied upon you not knowing the ending than did Case 2, which is to say ...
  • both cases are stronger the first time you play them
  • because both cases rely on an element of surprise and when you get to the end you're blown away
  • but with Case 2, the way it's written is such that once you already know the ending and you return to Square One to play through it again, it's amusing
  • whereas with the way Case 4 is written, once you already know the ending and you return to Square One, it's a lot of just going through the paces.
I think I know why too. Case 2 is a lot more about character mystery and has a whole bunch of fascinating characters, from the major (like Pearl Fey and Ini Miney) to the minor (like Dr. Hotti). What makes Case 2's murder interesting is the answer to the question "Why?" Case 4 on the other hand is more about suspense and plot mystery. Will {that one person} be okay? Who did kill Juan Corrida? What makes its murder interesting is the answer to the question "Who?" Obviously both cases deal with both questions, but I feel Case 2's magic is more motive-heavy while Case 4's magic is more identity-heavy. And thus, I feel, Case 2 holds up better on replays than Case 4. Because you quote unquote "never" tire of reliving the murderer admitting their guilt in a "Why?"-driven mystery but in a "Who?"-driven mystery you really only have the one opportunity to be surprised and then that's it.

All of this stated, am I enjoying Case 4 so far? Yeah, it's okay. Definitely in the top half of Game 2's cases, for sure. (Not that that's saying much.) Lots of evidence to gather and present, lots of Pearl as my sidekick, quite a few cameos of some fan favorite characters from Game 1, and excitement at being reminded, since I have forgotten, ...

Case 4 murderer's identity spoiled below! Do not click until you've completed the case!
Spoiler: show
what the relationship is between Shelly de Killer and Matt Engarde. IIRC Shelly is a good guy of sorts? I don't really remember. But for now I'm wondering what his ultimate role in the story is since:
  • he tasked Phoenix with acquitting Matt which doesn't make sense if Shelly's a good guy considering Matt's the true killer and surely Shelly must know this
  • when Phoenix mentioned to Matt the situation with Maya and the walkie-talkie of "de Killer"'s, Matt did a 180° and was like, "Okay, dude, you can be my lawyer," suggesting he knows who Shelly de Killer is
So like, they seem to be in cahoots so far ... but that can't be the case if my hazy memory is correct about Shelly not being a bad guy despite having abducted Maya Fey and blackmailed Phoenix Wright.

So I do have that to look forward to, at least, when it comes to being surprised by this case.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:55 PM   #12
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Just finished the final case. It was enjoyable ... but long. @_@ And fraught with the problems that begin to plague the series from here on out.
  • Witness testimonies longer than five speech bubbles. This means that much more guesswork for the player when unsure what it is that the writer is thinking of as being the best place to raise an objection.
  • Earlier speech bubbles whose Press results change to something completely different but only once you've pressed later speech bubbles, thus requiring the player to fully press through witness testimonies twice in a row. (Example: when you press Bubble 2, then Bubble 5, then Bubble 2 again, Bubble 2's second Press result is different from before and was only "unlocked" by pressing Bubble 5.)
  • Evidence piles larger than three screens (24 items). @_@ You could take a lot of this stuff and put it aside, y'know!
  • A few deliberately misleadingly-worded requests to present evidence when what they specifically want is a person (paraphrased example: "There's something I need to show Edgeworth that'll turn this case around!" Instead of "There's someone I need to show Edgeworth").
  • Returning witnesses leaving no end in sight. (A certain someone took the witness stand no fewer than three different times in this case iirc! >_<)
  • Dickery with the Psycho-Locks where you're expected to attempt to break them before the game will let you proceed, even though it knows you can't break them yet. (I'm specifically thinking of the one that takes place at the detention center with two different people, each of whom you must attempt to Psycho-Lock break, neither of whom you are ready to, before the game then lets you move ahead and gather the necessary evidence for breaking their locks.)
  • Some pretty ridiculous "Hold that verdict!" shenanigans that defy expectation.
These problems sadly beleaguer the franchise from here on out and it looks like Game 2 Case 4 is where they were first all gathered together in one place.

Complaints aside, the case was good. It was a grand finale both for the game and for the franchise as a whole for when it was made. It set the grandiosity bar for all of the finales which were to follow. It posed a very interesting ethical dilemma to Phoenix, one I struggled to answer myself and one which I think all attorneys must confront at some point in their careers.

Spoiler: show
What exactly does it mean to be a "lawyer"? Which verdict should Phoenix pursue?

Guilty: Pros = he's doing what Maya wanted him to do, he's prioritizing the pursuit of truth and justice over all else, he isn't ruining an innocent woman's life. Cons = he's letting Maya die, he's violating attorney-client confidentiality, he's going against the very foundation of what it means to be a defense attorney -- to get your client acquitted no matter what.

Not Guilty: Pros = Maya lives, he honors what it means to be a defense attorney, he doesn't violate attorney-client confidentiality. Cons = Maya hates him for it, he lets a murderer get away with his crime, and he condemns an innocent woman (Adrian Andrews) by persuading the judge that she did all of this to frame his client.

Neither's an ideal choice. In the end, I went with Guilty both times. I have no idea which I picked for the first choice the first time I played this game but I'm 99% positive I picked Not Guilty for the second choice. And while I like how that one plays out, I just couldn't let poor Adrian take the fall. Felt it would be grossly unethical to represent her in court and get her acquitted by proving Matt's guilt and then being all "But you can't try Matt again because DOUBLE JEOPARDY, BITCHES!" But yeah, the fact that 2008 Talon and 2012 Talon made different choices there says a lot for what a terribly difficult choice this was to make. 10000x moreso if you really were that lawyer in the courtroom and not just taking a video game super seriously.

Spoiler: show
Loved the bit at the end with Pearl reserving a honeymooners' suite for Phoenix and Maya.

Loved Crying Child-faced Franziska at the end. Edgeworth x Franziska is this game's OTP easy.

Final thoughts. I'd still say Game 1 is overall more enjoyable than Game 2 with only Game 2 Cases 2 and 4 giving any of the Game 1 non-intro cases a run for their money. And I think, on the replay, my case rankings would be 2 > 4 > 3 > 1. On the first play through it'd almost certainly be 4 >= 2 > 1 > 3 but on the replay it's what I said before. Best new character = Pearl Fey. Best overall character again = Pearl Fey. Oh, and one last thing: having played Game 3, it's verrrrrrrrry obvious when revisiting Game 2 that Takumi Shuu was already bouncing around ideas for Game 3 and set the stage for things in very deliberate ways in Game 2. I know I said this before but it came up again during the ending credits although this time it was something to do with a completely different character:

Spoiler: show
Maggey Byrde quitting the police force and declaring her intention to become a waitress at a bakery.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:45 AM   #13
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I just remembered something.

Game 2 Case 4 major spoiler, culprit identity revealed
Spoiler: show
Matt Engarde, the same Matt Engarde who drove Celeste Inpax to suicide and laughed about it, was the owner of a kitten. And not just any kitten! An adorable kitten named Shoe. Kinda crazy that someone so terrible and with a motorcycle hanging from his living room ceiling would install kitty doors for his kitten all throughout his mansion and would call the little one Shoe.

What became of Shoe afterwards? Did Shelly go back for her/him? Did the police? If no one went back to the house after Matt was sent to prison, would that mean ...? D: SHOOOOOEEEEE!
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
I just remembered something.

Game 2 Case 4 major spoiler, culprit identity revealed
Spoiler: show
Matt Engarde, the same Matt Engarde who drove Celeste Inpax to suicide and laughed about it, was the owner of a kitten. And not just any kitten! An adorable kitten named Shoe. Kinda crazy that someone so terrible and with a motorcycle hanging from his living room ceiling would install kitty doors for his kitten all throughout his mansion and would call the little one Shoe.

What became of Shoe afterwards? Did Shelly go back for her/him? Did the police? If no one went back to the house after Matt was sent to prison, would that mean ...? D: SHOOOOOEEEEE!
This was my major thought at the end of the case too. I want closure, damn it!
Spoiler: show
My pet theory is that he was adopted by Gumshoe and given as a gift to Maggey
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