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Old 09-09-2013, 04:32 PM   #1
Mercutio
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Swoobat Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Let us discuss the greatest American television show of all time, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Let us also talk about Angel and about the various comic books, pseudo/non canon books etc and all that other stuff.

Favourite character? Best episode? Least interesting villain not named Adam?

Go!
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Old 09-09-2013, 04:57 PM   #2
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Gotta say my favourite character overall is probably Wesley in the full 'verse, probably Dawn if we're just talking Buffy itself.

And because almost every Buffy discussion devolves to this eventually, Willow/Kennedy, Buffy/Spike, Angel/Cordy, Xander/Dawn.

Once More With Feeling has to be one of the best episodes.

Anyanka as a villian was not too threatening, but if we're going arc villains, The Trio is fairly subpar, although with good reason.
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Old 09-09-2013, 05:02 PM   #3
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Man I would love a Trio mini series and just have them go around killing stuff across history.
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Old 09-09-2013, 05:20 PM   #4
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Giles wins best character hands down (based on all of TV Buffy and two seasons of Angel). Xander, Willow, Tara, Spike, Dawn and Oz are all pretty great too. Once More With Feeling is a good contender for best episode, but it has to compete with the likes of The Body, Hush, Grave and Passion.

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And because almost every Buffy discussion devolves to this eventually, Willow/Kennedy, Buffy/Spike, Angel/Cordy, Xander/Dawn.
Willow/Oz, Buffy/whocaresBuffyspersonalromancearcsareusuallylame, Xander/Cordelia (Anya was the better character, but Xander/Cordelia's romance arc was better).
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Old 09-09-2013, 05:59 PM   #5
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I want more of Ripper, tbh.
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Old 09-09-2013, 05:59 PM   #6
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I didn't really like The Body. I never really liked Joyce.

After watching Angel, especially Season Three, I can't not go for Angel/Cordy
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Old 09-10-2013, 03:21 PM   #7
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*drags Buffy-TO posts here*

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I say this having devoured pretty much all of the Buffyverse wiki. I think the basic problem is that Boreneaz isn't a great actor.
TAKE THAT BACK!

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The odd thing about Buffy for me is that the character Buffy and her first two love interests were to me the least interesting characters. Spike, Willow, Xander, Giles (especially Giles) and all the rest were much better than the title character. Riley was an improvement over Angel though.
There are definitely points where Buffy is a really unlikeable character, but I think it is because there is such an array of amazingly appealing, funny, interesting characters surrounding her at all times. So she kind of gets lost in that way I guess.

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Does Riley count as a love interest or are we going the smart route and pretending he never existed?
YES.

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Least interesting villain not named Adam?
Eugh, Adam.

Glory was definitely the best villain. Followed by the Trio and The First for the sheer epic nature of Season 7.

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Willow/Oz, Buffy/whocaresBuffyspersonalromancearcsareusuallylame, Xander/Cordelia (Anya was the better character, but Xander/Cordelia's romance arc was better).
I always liked Xander/Anya, but it did often feel forced at times. Though by the time the wedding rolled around I was so geared for it, but then afterwards I watched a commentary with Joss where he said 'I couldn't have Xander get married, because it felt almost too grown up for him as a character' which I felt was a bit of a cop-out reason. I mean would it really have been out of character for him to do that? But I guess it worked out alright cause it gave Anya a pretty good downward spiral character arc for a while.

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I didn't really like The Body. I never really liked Joyce
You must be the only Buffy fan not to like this episode~
Not that that's a bad thing, it's just a really unheard of opinion.

My favourite all-time favourite character in the Buffy/Angelverse is definitely Cordelia, I mean you only have to watch Welcome To The Hellmouth and then You're Welcome from Angel Season 5 just to see how far they developed her character across the two shows. I mean the development was so slow and felt so real. But there were just so many fantastic characters from both shows. It is hard to pick just one, I mean Giles, Willow, Tara, Fred, Anya, Dawn, Xander...just such a fantastic cast of compelling characters.

Favourite episodes? This is a tricky one, there's the obvious ones like The Body and Once More With Feeling, but I always had a really big soft spot for Something Blue in Season 4 (where Willow casts a spell that makes everything she said come true). I think I'd need to glance through the episode listings to refresh my memory a little.

And Angel episodes probably You're Welcome or Birthday, both Cordelia-centric but two fantastic episodes. Or maybe some of the Fred-centric episodes, because she had some fantastic moments in that show too. And I always had a soft spot for Harm's Way in Angel Season 5, where Harmony (the vampire from Buffy's high school years) tries to solve the mystery of the episode. Fantastic.
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Old 09-10-2013, 05:30 PM   #8
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So I've started watching Angel again as I've three weeks to kill before uni starts up again. Picked up exactly where I left off (Season 2, Episode 11). Two minutes in and;

"Well my nose skin is angry. And hurt."

xD
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:04 AM   #9
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You're Welcome. Oh, gods, You're Welcome. Right below Jurassic Bark on the Tear-O-Metre. And then three episodes later...

Cordy has to rate right below Wesley for me. I just loved his character development, and he always seemed one of the more real characters. He became a real badass in Angel.
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:23 PM   #10
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Sorry Stu, he's not great. But very fanciable in Buffy S1.
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:42 PM   #11
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The gf and I have just finished season 3.

Man I love the Mayor. Definitely one of my favourite villians ever, placing just behind DS9's Gul Dukat.
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:13 PM   #12
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The Mayor is pretty good, has some good development and is useful at helping others along. I'm a sucker for Spike in terms of his villainousness though. Spike generally is pretty badass but as a villain and in no other way he's epic.

Though I think I prefer Dracula
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Old 09-13-2013, 06:05 PM   #13
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So I'd forgotten that the season 2 finale of Angel would coincide with the season 5 finale of Buffy. Last minute wrecking of what should've been a happy ending? Screw you, Whedon!

EDIT the first: Boreanaz does "lecherous dick" disturbingly well (Carpe Noctem).

EDIT the second: Ok, as of S3E12 (Provider) I am officially sold on Angel/Cordelia.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:49 AM   #14
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Whedon loves fucking over otherwise happy endings by dropping bombshells. Huge ones.

>EDIT the second: Ok, as of S3E12 (Provider) I am officially sold on Angel/Cordelia.

Told ya.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:04 PM   #15
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And one episode after it all looks good SCREW YOU WHEDON I HATE YOU LIKE YOU HATE HAPPINESS.

I exaggerate, but man does he have a habit of just going "what can I do to make life suck more for my characters?" and then doing it.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:14 PM   #16
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Never before had I imagined "Chipmunk robots on ice" would be so heartwarming and just plain "d'aww"
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:10 PM   #17
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I have a weird urge to write Buffyverse Dracula fanfiction. I also watched some Season 2 on the bus and now I fancy Spike again. Those cheekbones man.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:36 PM   #18
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God damn. There I was miffed about the return of Groo spoiling Angel/Cordy, and I go and watch S3E16 Sleep Tight.

Spoiler: show
The episode where Connor ends up taken into a hell dimension with Holtz and Wesley ends up nearly dead with his throat cut and Angel hates his guts. Damn Whedon, that was cold.


I think I now prefer Angel to Buffy.
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:00 PM   #19
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I feel like I need to watch all of Angel; I go bored somewhere in the middle of Season 2 and have just watched a few other episodes and clips (and read much of the plot).

I just don't fancy fat Angel.
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:09 PM   #20
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I feel like I need to watch all of Angel; I go bored somewhere in the middle of Season 2 and have just watched a few other episodes and clips (and read much of the plot).
I did much the same with the stopping mid season 2. Picked it up again recently because bored and killing time until returning to uni. Season 3 is pretty great. Remember how the first Season of Buffy is mostly terrible and it builds? Yeah much the same.
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:37 PM   #21
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Fair. I wouldn't say it was terrible, but if I were to start watching Buffy now having never heard of it I would probably not get past two episodes, no.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:12 PM   #22
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I can continue watching Once More With Feeling pretty much forever.

And yeah, S3 is when Angel really broke the mold into millions of tiny pieces.
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Old 09-18-2013, 02:00 AM   #23
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Firstly, the greatest American television series of all time is Firefly.

The big problem I had with Buffy and Angel unfortunately was that their main characters were usually the characters you least sympathized with and almost never worried about when danger was happening.

Buffy alienated people because she was this superhuman teenaged girl. Yes, she was mortal and yes she had her high school problems, but the fact that her life was so fantastic (in the fantasy use, not amazing) kind of drove a wedge between at least myself connecting with her. This left Willow and Xander as the characters which the audience connected with.

Angel had this same problem but times like a hundred. He was a sad, immortal vampire who fought his normal vampire urges and had a soul. We could feel bad for him, but never resonate with him. And overall most of his seasons were confusing and all over the place.

Danger was almost a non-issue. As super powered main characters, you never had to worry that much about them dying. Yet at the same time, it was only during action moments where they could shine (seeing as how they were super powered). This kind of creates issues of how to use the characters unfortunately.

One of the best episodes in my opinion was Hush. The Gentlemen were super creepy and the idea that no one can scream is like a primal fear. It was a really well done episode in terms of horror.
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Old 09-18-2013, 04:24 AM   #24
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Hush was great for all the reasons you state. I also love the soundtrack, I think it's more effectively put together than OMWF.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:26 PM   #25
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Hush kinda bored me. Possibly too much Riley.

Season 4 kinda bored me. Definitely too much Riley.
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