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Old 06-20-2013, 08:31 PM   #5176
Talon87
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Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
Madoka Magica gets a 10/10 from me for art style and great story telling. COME AT ME.
Maybe some other day I'll come at your assessment of 10/10. For today, I'm content to let you enjoy your newfound masterpiece.

However, now that you've finished the series, I can address something.

"Genre Subversion"? What's that?: I feel like watching Puella Magi Madoka Magica without having watched a single magical girl anime before and being less than a year or two into the whole anime scene is akin to watching Fate/Zero before playing Fate/stay night. Long story short, Talon does not approve and gives you all of his scowls. ^^; But hey, you enjoyed it so w/e, I guess. *grumpy shrug*

The thing about Madoka is, it's an almost exhaustive exercise in subverting the tropes of the magical girl genre. So by not being familiar with magical girl manga and/or anime, you really lose the forest for the trees. Sure, you can enjoy the plot that's present for what it is. As a stand-alone story. I get that. But the whole point with Madoka is ...

Spoiler: show
  • the fantasy realm portions are dark. Deceptively playful yet seemingly threatening. Dancing scissors and knives? I mean, hello?
  • the heroes lose, at the cost of their lives (Mami, Sayaka, etc.)
  • the heroes' stupid and childish reasons for fighting are revealed for their stupidity and childishness (Sayaka)
  • the animal partner-guide-friend turns out to be the primary antagonist if you don't count Witch Madoka WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT
  • the music either deceptively suits a magical girl series yet the accompanying animation doesn't (e.g. the OP theme song or Mami's theme songs) or else doesn't suit a magical girl series at all (e.g. the ED theme song)
Really, though, the big one is Kyubey.

I recognize that you can appreciate all of these things even without the magical girl flashlight shone on them ... but I'm saying that that flashlight really does illuminate the picture and make it ten times more brilliant. It's a shame that you thus spoiled yourself on the series without the benefit of that light during your virginal viewing. You and so many others on UPN.

Madoka movies: never watched the first two since, as you pointed out, they were reportedly nothing more than the TV series' episodes quite literally edited to fit into the shape of a film. You mention the new Madoka project that was announced earlier this year (or even last year? time flies, and too lazy to check), but from what I recall, the project sounded like a) a shameless spin-off that b) is shamelessly seeking more money from the same otaku who turned the first Madoka into an "IT PRINTS MONEY! XFD" money-making machine for Shaft. Whereas the original Madoka was interesting for all of the subversion of genre tropes that it did and for its great mysteries, this new property just seems like a shameless attempt to squeeze more milk from the cash cow's teats. Could be wrong, but if you were to tell me that the film were coming out tomorrow, I'm not even sure I could motivate myself to lift a finger to check it out. =\ I'm that not interested.

Closing comments (... FOR NOW!): Glad you liked the series though. Sorry that none of us really engaged you. I had my reasons (as you can see ). I assume bbb and Doppel and Yuki all had theirs. If you'd like to find posts we made on the topic, pretty sure we all posted in this thread about it.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:42 PM   #5177
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I specifically had interest in Madoka for a few reasons, one of them being that I knew beforehand it wasn't your typical "magical girl" anime. I know enough about magical girl anime and have seen enough from them to know I... it's not my thing. I wouldn't really call it genre subversion if it was making an exception for a genre you had no previous interest in, but maybe that's just me. I knew it was more or less "magical girl with a dark twist" beforehand, and knowing Urobuchi was behind it made me want to give it a try all the more.

I'm not going to compare Madoka to other magical girl anime or even other anime in general. I'm going to judge it for what it is in terms of story and art, and that's why I felt it deserved a 10/10 from my own personal point of view. All of the points you listed are more or less precisely why I enjoyed it, I guess.



In other news, Hataraku Maou-sama! 12 is out, and it's glorious. Will discuss in the thread later.


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Old 06-20-2013, 08:45 PM   #5178
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Madoka's a great title, but it's actually lost a bit of shine in my mind's eye. What was strongest about the series was the mystery, the build-up and dignified reveals, and the ideas/themes that went into the series composition. Character-wise, it's just OK. It doesn't really do much for me anymore, unless one has a taste for horrifying little girls (which I do, but that's aside the point...).

Actually VGM, Madoka was my springboard into magical girl proper. I watched HCPC not long after and PreCure got integrated into my DNA, despite BBB's iron-clad belief that no one else on UPN would ever get interested in the series. Perhaps you should stop riding ponies, and start riding rainbows!
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:53 PM   #5179
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Perhaps you should stop riding ponies, and start riding rainbows!


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Old 06-20-2013, 08:54 PM   #5180
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I'm not going to compare Madoka to other magical girl anime or even other anime in general. I'm going to judge it for what it is in terms of story and art
I can't help but to read this and think that you're saying it just to try and sound cool.

Nothing you've said changes what in my mind is the fact (if not it being an objective fact period ) that if you enjoyed PMMM this much (makes hand gesture), then you would have enjoyed it THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS much (makes grander hand gesture) had you watched a Nanoha or a Cardcaptor Sakura or a Pretty Cure first. And I'm not talking five or ten KidsWB dub job episodes. I'm talking the entire project cover to cover. I had seen Magic Knight Rayearth (with Mokona) and Cardcaptor Sakura (with Kero) before watching PMMM (with Kyubey). bbb had seen God knows how many magical girl shows before he watched Madoka. I feel like for us, the genre subversion was like extra rich chocolate icing on the cake. I feel like you think you ate an iced cake but what you really had was a cake devoid of any icing at all. A great cake, sure, but it could've been so much more with that icing.

Also:

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Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Madoka's a great title, but it's actually lost a bit of shine in my mind's eye.
What I've been struggling to say myself. ^_^; I really, really enjoyed it when I first watched it ... but I have next to no desire right now to go back and rewatch it. I have to make conscious decisions to hold myself back from rewatching a number of anime series I've loved, but with Madoka, I don't have the faintest desire to rewatch it right now, even though when I did watch it I really quite liked it. Especially the final three episodes. ("Homura is best PMMM girl", to use the lingo. ;p)
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:59 PM   #5181
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I can't help but to read this and think that you're saying it just to try and sound cool.
Well that's somewhat insulting.

Guess I don't honestly believe the things I say and would rather just sound like a cool kid


edit: I have seen Cardcaptor Sakura. I've seen a lot of Cardcaptor Sakura. It's good, but nothing incredible.


But you know what I think it is that made you try to call me out as a "cool" kid? I know how you think. I bet you think "Man, Deoxys is probably just into this because suddenly EVERYONE ON UPN has PMMM av/sig sets," and that's exactly something you would say. And then you put a smiley at the end to make it look like you're being playful, but you're not. You're serious. You're just trying to throw a blanket on some of the personal disapproval you have. I don't appreciate it when you do that.

I started watching it shortly after I finished Psycho Pass and it took several weeks to get through 4 episodes. Finally I was bored today and decided to continue it and it picked up big time and so I decided to just marathon it straight through. Halfway through when we met Kyoko I loved her and paused the episode to throw on a new av/sig set because she was great. It's completely coincidence. I'm not trying to start anything, but I really wish you would stop with assumptions. It really irritates me when you do that.

Last edited by deoxys; 06-20-2013 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:09 PM   #5182
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Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
Well that's somewhat insulting.

Guess I don't honestly believe the things I say and would rather just sound like a cool kid


edit: I have seen Cardcaptor Sakura. I've seen a lot of Cardcaptor Sakura. It's good, but nothing incredible.


But you know what I think it is that made you try to call me out as a "cool" kid? I know how you think. I bet you think "Man, Deoxys is probably just into this because suddenly EVERYONE ON UPN has PMMM av/sig sets," and that's exactly something you would say. And then you put a smiley at the end to make it look like you're being playful, but you're not. You're serious. You're just trying to throw a blanket on some of the personal disapproval you have. I don't appreciate it when you do that.

I started watching it shortly after I finished Psycho Pass and it took several weeks to get through 4 episodes. Finally I was bored today and decided to continue it and it picked up big time and so I decided to just marathon it straight through. It's completely coincidence. I'm not trying to start anything, but I really wish you would stop with assumptions. It really irritates me when you do that.
If you want to sit behind your keyboard and be pissy with me, take a second look at this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
I'm not going to compare Madoka to other magical girl anime or even other anime in general. I'm going to judge it for what it is in terms of story and art
and ask yourself how that might be perceived as incredibly condescending and insulting towards your speaking partner. If you honestly can't see it, I'm telling you that it was an uncalled for attack on my sensibilities. And if you can see it, well then!
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:11 PM   #5183
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I've been editing intermittently.

I meant what I said. You do this once every few weeks or so, I don't like it. You've made assumptions about me in the past publicly (I can't remember what it was right now) as well as other people and it looks demeaning and embarrassing. I wish you wouldn't. Sorry if it was a bit abrasive.
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:19 PM   #5184
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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
If you want to sit behind your keyboard and be pissy with me, take a second look at this:

and ask yourself how that might be perceived as incredibly condescending and insulting towards your speaking partner. If you honestly can't see it, I'm telling you that it was an uncalled for attack on my sensibilities. And if you can see it, well then!
Taste is entirely subjective. I wasn't trying to demean your opinion nor anyone elses. That's not very fair. I was saying that I enjoyed it for what it was in direct response to your banter at me for "genre subverting" and your apparent disappointment with me.

For you to interpret my statement as "I liked it for what it was" as a direct jab at you is shitty. Why would I do that? I was just stating a fact that I personally believe, I wasn't even saying it in response to you. I wasn't even thinking about your reply when I wrote that. What, do you think I sit here and go "Oh man, time to think up something clever to take Talon down a notch". That's some sort of fucked up I can't even fathom and have no idea why you'd interpret it that way.

I said what I meant and I meant what I said. It's my opinion on the show and it's not meant to somehow be "holier than thou" or put my views on it above anyone elses. I can't even believe you interpreted it that way. Sorry if it offended you, that's not what that statement was meant to do.
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:19 PM   #5185
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Lil' Bluey

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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
I feel like for us, the genre subversion was like extra rich chocolate icing on the cake. I feel like you think you ate an iced cake but what you really had was a cake devoid of any icing at all. A great cake, sure, but it could've been so much more with that icing.
Cake without icing is the best kind of cake.

[/totallyavoidingmissingthepoint]

Edit- Guys let's just sit and enjoy some cake? =x Whether you like it frosted or not doesn't matter.

Spoiler: show
[

Spoiler: show
P.S. THE CAKE IS A LIE.


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Old 06-20-2013, 09:23 PM   #5186
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But I didn't subvert the genre! I've *seen* Cardcaptor Sakura. It's not my thing! I purposely watched Madoka because it was relevant to my interests being written by Urobuchi and having been looking for more of his work, I watched it. Can't help but feel like no matter how hard I try to discuss anime here or anything I'm always going to be "too casual" or far behind from everyone else that my arguments and opinions don't matter.
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:41 PM   #5187
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Taste is entirely subjective. I wasn't trying to demean your opinion nor anyone elses. That's not very fair. I was saying that I enjoyed it for what it was in direct response to your banter at me for "genre subverting" and your apparent disappointment with me.
I think you may have misunderstood what is meant by the term "genre subversion". I'm saying that Madoka has subverted the magical girl genre. When an entry in a medium is said to subvert the genre, what that means is that the entry has certain superficial properties which characterize it as a member of that specific genre and yet it has a great many other core attributes which are completely opposite to those found in most other entries in that same genre. For example ...
  • Django Unchained subverts the western genre. It's a Western ... that is unlike any classic Western.
  • Buffy the Vampire Slayer subverts the horror genre. It's a horror film ... which turns the classic horror formula completely over on its head.

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For you to interpret my statement as "I liked it for what it was" as a direct jab at you is shitty. Why would I do that? I was just stating a fact that I personally believe, I wasn't even saying it in response to you. I wasn't even thinking about your reply when I wrote that.
Oh, come on. Please don't insult my intelligence like that. If what you were saying now were true, then why would you have followed the contentious line up with this one?
Quote:
All of the points you listed are more or less precisely why I enjoyed it, I guess.
You claim you weren't making a directed comment at me, yet you then address that comment towards some party covered by the pronoun "you". Who's you then? You can't claim it's the general second person plural, Deo. The general second person plural didn't just list off a bunch of points. Only Talon87 did.

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Originally Posted by deoxys View Post
What, do you think I sit here and go "Oh man, time to think up something clever to take Talon down a notch". That's some sort of fucked up I can't even fathom and have no idea why you'd interpret it that way.
... *sigh*, see, this is the shit I am talking about:

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I've been unfairly accused of a variety of terrible things. I've suffered my fair share of hateful remarks. And there've been a lot of pots calling the kettle black.
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:48 PM   #5188
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Cardcaptor Sakura (also VGM, you lie, you saw Cardcaptors) proper is a bit more saccharine/sterile than other magical girl titles. Yes, it's had a huge influence, but Toei's Sailor Moon likely eclipses CCS in impact, especially in regard to the PreCure titles.

Yeah, it's pretty horrifying when a character dies in Madoka...but only because one is conditioned to think that every magical girl world is like CCS, where nobody dies and the threats are not as severe as life/death. Outside of that mentality, and that universe, things become a whole lot less predictable.

In my favourite of the PreCure series, heroes and villains alike die all manner of death: pathetic snuff-out, valiant last stands, regret-filled tragedies, bitter defiance, and tearful farewells. Given the context, the mere idea of death is way stronger than in Madoka. It's one thing when the butcher chops up his hogs. It's another when Hayao Miyazaki has Totoro euthanized at an animal shelter!
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:49 PM   #5189
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BUT I WASN'T!

That WASN'T my intent and you are trying to find evidence to make it seem as though it was. Why can't you just accept my answer for what it is at face value? Why must you think I'm somehow lying to you? Sorry I'm bad at wording my sentences properly?

I. Fuck. I can't. I don't want to fight with you. This is ridiculous.

I'm not going to argue in public about this, no one needs to see this and it's derailing the thread. We can take this to a PM if you want, but I'm not going to argue any further in here.
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:59 PM   #5190
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Cardcaptor Sakura proper is a bit more saccharine/sterile than other magical girl titles. Yes, it's had a huge influence, but Toei's Sailor Moon likely eclipses CCS in impact, especially in regard to the PreCure titles.
Sailor Moon always felt like "magical girl meets sentai" to me though. Not really sure why you'd say it's a better magical girl series candidate than CCS. I mean, hell, if we want to compare the two respective series to Madoka directly, I think it's clearer which one bears the stronger superficial similarities.

Madoka spoilers through Episode 10

Spoiler: show
I mean, hell: Puella Magi Madoka Magica is essentially "What if Lesbian Tomoyo were to herself become a magical girl? And what if she were to go back in time again and again and again, as many times as it takes, to try and save Sakura?"

But yeah. You've got the lesbian lolis. You've got the animal partner who looks like a feline plushie. You've got the seasoned veteran who shows up and teaches her a thing or two about doing her job right. So on and so forth.

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Yeah, it's pretty horrifying when a character dies in Madoka...but only because one is conditioned to think that every magical girl world is like CCS, where nobody dies and the threats are not as severe as life/death. Outside of that mentality, and that universe, things become a whole lot less predictable.
Do you mean a whole lot more predictable? Otherwise, please explain. :o You kind of lost me with your last sentence based on what led up to it.

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In my favourite of the PreCure series, heroes and villains alike die all manner of death: pathetic snuff-out, valiant last stands, regret-filled tragedies, bitter defiance, and tearful farewells. Given the context, the mere idea of death is way stronger than in Madoka. It's one thing when the butcher chops up his hogs. It's another when Hayao Miyazaki has Totoro euthanized at an animal shelter!
Wait, what!? They do that in one of the Pretty Cures!? O_o They take their animal friend partner to the vet to have it put down? O_o; That's pretty nuts!
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:33 PM   #5191
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Sailor Moon always felt like "magical girl meets sentai" to me though. Not really sure why you'd say it's a better magical girl series candidate than CCS. I mean, hell, if we want to compare the two respective series to Madoka directly, I think it's clearer which one bears the stronger superficial similarities.
"mahou shoujo" didn't exist until Sailor Moon. There were magic girls, but they didn't fight injustice/crime with super-powers like how we envision them. Luna was the first real mascot character. You say Sailor Moon was sentai, and it was, but remember Sailor V came first as a stand-alone story, and it was basically a solo Sailor Moon.

CCS was significant for doing it with elementary school kids, and the star of the show is basically the Biblical Eve who virgin birthed all of moe. I just mixed my Christian mythologies!

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Madoka spoilers through Episode 10

Spoiler: show
I mean, hell: Puella Magi Madoka Magica is essentially "What if Lesbian Tomoyo were to herself become a magical girl? And what if she were to go back in time again and again and again, as many times as it takes, to try and save Sakura?"

But yeah. You've got the lesbian lolis. You've got the animal partner who looks like a feline plushie. You've got the seasoned veteran who shows up and teaches her a thing or two about doing her job right. So on and so forth.


Do you mean a whole lot more predictable? Otherwise, please explain. :o You kind of lost me with your last sentence based on what led up to it.
Less predictable. You don't expect death in a story like PreCure. Heck, in the current season (Doki) and the previous one (Smile), nobody died really. So when it happens, or some serious ship goes down, it's a bigger surprise. That's the whole premise around Muv-Luv too - it convinces you you're reading a romantic comedy, then WHAM.

Having not seen CCS proper, only Cardcaptors, I don't know how in-love Tomoyo was for Sakura. Since they were prepubescents it's hard for me to take it seriously. Was it this strong?



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Wait, what!? They do that in one of the Pretty Cures!? O_o They take their animal friend partner to the vet to have it put down? O_o; That's pretty nuts!
No, I think you took the analogy a tad too far. But characters die in PreCure, and the deaths hit me harder than the ones in Madoka. There was a ton more development, and a ton more (adult) human drama that went into it.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:56 PM   #5192
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Having not seen CCS proper, only Cardcaptors, I don't know how in-love Tomoyo was for Sakura. Since they were prepubescents it's hard for me to take it seriously. Was it this strong? http://oi41.tinypic.com/29vncjs.jpg
I watched CCS circa Summer 2005, so my memory's hazy, but yes, it's pretty obvious. There are three seasons to CCS, and iirc it's pretty obvious even only halfway through Season 1 that Tomoyo might possibly be a lesbian and have feelings for Sakura. Then somewhere in Season 2 or Season 3, I can't remember, I feel like it's all but canon revealed via something she says. While I can't find it on YouTube or the like, I did find this on Wikipedia for you:

Quote:
In the manga, some scenes give the appearance that Tomoyo has a crush on Sakura's brother Toya; however, according to an interview in the Cardcaptor Sakura Memorial Book, this was an error caused by one of the finishing artists not being aware that CLAMP intended for Tomoyo to have feelings for Sakura.[10]
What complicates things for you even further, Doppel, is that Tomoyo and Sakura are cousins. (Well, second cousins according to something I just read. I remembered them being cousins but w/e, second cousins works too. CLOSE ENOUGH FOR DOPPEL TO BE ALL WEIRDED OUT! )

Looking to TV Tropes (ugh ), I find that apparently Tomoyo's mother had a lesbian crush on Sakura's mother as well? I don't remember this (or feel like I barely remember it but can't be certain if I'm not making things up), but I guess it wouldn't surprise me. Sakura's mother, literally named Nadeshiko, is basically a Yamato Nadeshiko. Or was, I guess I should say.
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:20 PM   #5193
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When I started Madoka, I got pretty excited around episode 3-6. Things were exciting, and the plot was developing pretty nicely. I didn't love it (an amazing comedy that season was stealing my love), but it was still nice. Fun fact though. I started Madoka at the beginning of the season thinking it would be comedy. When I thought SHAFT + magical girl, I instantly thought of Behoimi from Pani Poni Dash, and she was awesome.

After around episode 7, I started to get irritated with Madoka. I guess it's similar to Doppel's hatred for Clannad. It started becoming ridiculously popular, and people's obnoxious over-praise for Madoka really got on my nerves. I know I shouldn't let other irrational fans ruin my enjoyment for something, but when Madoka aired, it was really bad. If it's any consolation, I gave Madoka an 8, which is still fairly high.

After becoming more familiar with magical girl shows, I probably would enjoy Madoka alot less than I did the first time. Character development is a huge thing in magical girl shows, and the development for any characters that isn't Homura is really weak in Madoka.

Speaking of SHAFT magical girls, any news on that magical girl show SHAFT has been plugging for the past two years? I've seen promos for it, but no real news on when it's going to air. I mean, it looks like a generic moe-fest, but the fact that it has been in development for this long should mean something.
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Old 06-21-2013, 05:13 PM   #5194
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Spoiler tags are all spoilery for all of Madoka.

After thinking about it and going back over it, I'm lowering my score from a 10/10 to a 9. I know it's not a huge difference but 10 is supposed to be pretty much close to perfect. The show definitely needed more character development, especially for Homura and Madoka, and I was still sort of high on the emotion of the finale when I wrote my initial post. Madoka, the main character, was probably the most boring of them all and had very little development throughout the series, but I think that the fact that she was so boring and tasteless might be partially the point, being she didn't know who she was or what she wanted to do -


Spoiler: show
and also because her destiny was to become a Magi, but Homura kept her from becoming one in that timeline, so it put a wet blanket on her character.


I don't know, I was just thinking about it and thought since a 10 is supposed to basically be well rounded in every department... and in reflection, Madoka was well rounded in almost every department. I know it's hard to do that in only 12 episodes, but even one more just to flesh out the characters a bit more would have been nice in retrospect.

Spoiler: show
Sure, we had backstories for Homura, Kyoko, and Sayaka, but they were really abridged. Homura was the only one who had really the best development out of them all having an entire episode to show it, but we still don't know who she is. What was she like before meeting Madoka? What was wrong with her heart? And the same goes for Sayaka, why was she so interested in this boy? When did she meet him? What was his "accident"? Why didn't she just work up the nerve to confess to him? What about Kyoko? She had a REALLY interesting backstory and then it was just cut short. I would have liked to have seen a whole episode dedicated to that, honestly. And what about the Walpurgis Night? Why did it come to town? What exactly was it? It was never explored. It was just a "final boss". I imagined in the last episode it was possibly Homura's witch form from a completely different failed timeline she hadn't herself seen that always showed up, to face her one on one, and it seemed possible given the gears design and Homura's burden of constantly trying to save Madoka over and over.



Anyway, those are just the sort of things I've been musing over, so I'm thinking a bit more rationally about it now that I'm done and sitting here and going over it all. Don't get me wrong though, I still think it's deserving of a 9 because it was a great adventure with a dark twist and great concepts. And the characters were all likable, even if underdeveloped.

Spoiler: show
Except Kyubey. Fuck him.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:05 PM   #5195
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I think very highly of Madoka, it gets a 9/10 from me. It fell short of 10/10 because I recognize some characterization flaws (I HATED how Kyouko grew soft for no reason). It easily blew away another dark magical girl show I saw in Nanoha, and I also liked it way more than what I saw of Card Captor Sakura and Sailor Moon. Probably the best anime I've ever seen from a purely stylistic perspective; the way the visuals, animation, and music worked together, with some strong twists to back it up was just amazing. You know the phrase "All style and no substance"? Madoka has tons of style, and some substance, too! The only magical girl show I've seen that comes close is Princess Tutu, but it's not REALLY a magical girl show. Madoka was a more powerful experience overall, but Princess Tutu has a stronger storyline and characters in a literary sense.
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:16 PM   #5196
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Shinryaku! Ika Musume (manga)
I'm 75 chapters into this, so it's a good time to talk about my experience so far. I'm actually enjoying this alot more than I remember enjoying the anime. I think the anime was pretty funny, but not much else. The manga is just as funny, but it's so god damn heartwarming. This seems to focus more on Ika learning things about human society. Alot of this is the usual SoL, but I can't help but smile at Ika's almost animal-like reaction to everything. I'll continue reading in hopes that things don't get old.

Next I should read the manga Doppel recommended to me. I'm still waiting for my damn Animal Crossing to arrive!
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:50 AM   #5197
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PhotoKano: I've been keeping up with this series but I guess I've just neglected to post about it for several weeks now. As a reminder, Episode 09 was the Nonoka episode (the athletic girl). Episode 10 was the Mai episode (the loli gymnast). Episode 11 was the Rina episode (the large-breasted lover of cooking). And Episode 12, which I just saw, was the Tomoe episode (the quiet shy girl).

Episode 09:

Spoiler: show
Not much to say. I like Nonoka well enough but she's not my top or second top pick or anything like that. Overall I felt that this arc was incredibly rushed. From the snippets we did see, I feel like it would have taken a five-episode treatment to have properly covered this path. I guess the one thing that stands out in my mind right now is go Maeda!~ when he used physics to kick up that beach bench into Nonoka's would-be rapist's jaw. I've seen that sort of scene play out the Bad End way who knows how many times in hentai, so it was really surprising for me to see them set it up so classically only to then have everything go perfectly well for our heroes. Cool.

Episode 10:

Spoiler: show
Mai is right on down there with Muroto as one of my least favorite characters in the series. I realize she's not meant for me -- she's meant for guys who are almost night-and-day my opposite -- but still. Even if we get past the fact that she's the token loli, I felt like this episode was really bizarre. Like I told Yuki on Skype, I honestly thought from Mai's obsession with seeing Maeda eat, coupled with the image of Maeda looking like he'd started to put on some weight, that the direction this path was going to go in was to have Mai have a fat fetish. I thought she wanted to fatten him up and he'd become Fat Maeda in this path. hahaha

Episode 11:

Spoiler: show
Going into the series, Rina was a forecasted favorite. While I do still like her as a person/character, I feel like she received a somewhat bland character development treatment and that the plot of her episode wasn't very engaging either. And I'm not convinced that giving it more episodes would've changed that either. Although I do still think more episodes were in order. Because what the hell, man @ the sunflower stuff. That was so barely touched on in this episode, to the point that when Rina suddenly got inspired to make a sunflower burger because of Maeda's photos it was almost laughable. I get the feeling that in the game proper the sunflower thing was way better fleshed out and the player given the impression that sunflowers were an important, special connection between Maeda and Rina. You totally didn't get that here. It was just "Scene 1: watering sunflowers for five seconds" followed ten minutes later by "Scene 2: SUDDENLY SUNFLOWERS ARE MY INSPIRATION!"

Episode 12:

Spoiler: show
Wow, I didn't see this coming. Tomoe moves away? Damn. This is an angle that's honestly not explored nearly as much as in otaku media as I'd think it would be. Children move all the time, and I'd think there'd be a lot more stories where the protagonist falls in love with a boy or girl only to be torn apart from them because they have to move. To PhotoKano's discredit (says my cynical heart ), they went with the sappy ending of having Maeda swear he'd keep in touch and Tomoe reciprocating, acting as though these two are meant to be together, when in reality I feel like 99.9% of the time when a teenage girl moves away she and her old boyfriend fall apart, whether because he finds someone new, she finds someone new, they both do, or they grow distant. But that's just me being cynical, I guess, and I'll admit that there is that undeniable sweetness to the happily ever after-style ending.

Really, though, I am surprised at myself for not seeing this coming and I am simultaneously very impressed with the game's creators for coming up with this idea precisely because it perfectly fits the idea of high school + photography + dating. What are photographs but moments in time captured for us to forever remember them by? And thus what could be a more meaningful intersection of photography and high school romance but one of two lovers having to move away and the other of the two lovers being a photography enthusiast who goes out of his way to snap as many great photos as possible for her to always remember him and the others by? (Then the writers had to go and be clever+good ending-seeking by having Maeda strip the album of any photos of himself and saying "I don't want to just be a memory to you! I want us to be together always" ) But yeah. This is, like, the perfect route for a series premise like PhotoKano's.

In the end, of the seven main girls, my ranking of girl preference would be:
Niimi Haruka > Yunoki Rina > Masaki Nonoka = Sanehara Hikari >= Misumi Tomoe > Muroto Aki > Sakura Mai
And my ranking of route preference would have to be:
Niimi Haruka > Misumi Tomoe > Masaki Nonoka > Sanehara Hikari > Yunoki Rina > Sakura Mai > Muroto Aki
But we're not completely done yet. Because we've still got ...

Episode 13: (sneak peek)

Spoiler: show
INCEST EPISODE GET. Oh man, the writers sure are trolling Doppel to save the incest path for last. hahahaha In most circles that amounts to declaring the incest path the True Ending, no?

Doppel:

Nah, this is just another clear example of how PhotoKano is basically a poor man's Amagami SS (even though I didn't watch Amagami SS because it looked dumb to me ). Right on down to having the main character have a little sister who is in the same high school as him and has a crush on him and whose path is saved for last. (Although I think in Amagami SS's case they may have saved the little sister character's path for the OAV. *shrug*) But it was hinted at pretty damn strongly ever since the beginning of the series. In fact, I'd say that that's when it was most strongly hinted at. We haven't really gotten much Kanon x Onii-chan fodder in the episodes since Episode 04 (some, yes, but not much), but those first four episodes did a pretty solid job of setting us up for an incest path by having things like:
  • Kanon's bell (in connection with her brother) on her cell phone that she cherishes
  • Kanon being the first to pose for Maeda's pictures and being enthusiastic about it
  • Kanon while wearing a swimsuit jumping straight onto him with her crotch right in his face
  • various other little hints that, in summation, indicated an Onii-chan complex
So yeah, it's not like we didn't see this coming. I'm just amused and a little surprised that they've saved it for the last of the TV batch. I was certain that either a) it was going to show up earlier in the TV run (so as to not be seen as the official ending to the series) or else b) it wasn't going to show up in the TV run at all, instead relegated to a direct-to-DVD release. So yeah, color me a touch surprised and two touches amused that Kanon's path is in fact how we'll be sending PhotoKano off.

P.S. PhotoKano? More like PhotoKanon, am I right?

P.P.S. How did I not realize before just now that Kanon's name is itself a pun off of Canon-brand cameras? KANON X ONII-CHAN WAS MEANT TO BE!

Last edited by Talon87; 06-22-2013 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:49 AM   #5198
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I just watched episode 2 of the Touhou Fantasy Kaleidoscope anime. Here's a voiced and English subbed youtube video of it. It feels weird talking about an anime in the videogame section, so I'll talk about it here rather than the Touhou thread.

Like all of the Touhou videos they do, this one looks really nice, but at a good 12 minutes. I didn't like the humor at all, but everything else was nice. I guess we'll have to wait until the next reitaisai for the second part of this!

I've also played a bit into Hopeless Masquerade, so when I'm not feeling so lazy, I'll post about it in the Touhou thread.
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Old 06-22-2013, 12:49 PM   #5199
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On a whim, I started Tari Tari. I'm two-thirds of the way through Episode 01 and really enjoying it. It feels like the missing P.A.Works series I've long wanted since Hanasaku Iroha wrapped up. Another was fine but it was a serious murder mystery with nothing at all like Hanasaku Iroha's tone. And Red Data Girl was apparently really bad, from what I hear. But Tari Tari, while it was originally a series I skipped because it looked kinda boring and like it wasn't meant for me, has so far been sort of just what the doctor ordered. It hasn't been magnificent or anything yet, but it's been really very solid. If I had to score it based alone on what I've seen so far, it'd be 8/10. It's a really solid opening episode for yet another entry in the long, long list of high school days-genre shows.
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Old 06-22-2013, 07:34 PM   #5200
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D-d-d-double post!

Tari Tari: Through Episode 02 now. The series is still an 8/10. Not bad. I'd love for it to go up from here, and there's the potential that it may, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up too high. I just want to let the show play its course and then I'll worry about the strength of my feelings later. (Famous last words? Probably.)

Konatsu is definitely my favorite character. I can appreciate how Sakai, what with her mother having died, is intended as the dramatic focus / the dramatic protagonist of the series, but I really do perceive Konatsu as the main character of Tari Tari. She has the most screen time, she started the club, and she's the one driving the plot forward. So I'm all sorts of puzzled that the series opened with Sakai's flashback scene as that's the sort of thing you do for a main character. Not always, though, I guess. *recalls Fate/stay night and how that opens with Tohsaka Rin's summoning of Archer*

The show has a really masterful handle on comedy. It's funny, it knows it's funny, and God bless it it's modest about this fact! That is such a rare treat. Usually when writers try to be funny, they get carried away and feel like they have to hammer things home one way or another. Usually it's either by going way over the top with the humor, by explaining the joke to us at home, or both. Tari Tari has really delightfully avoided both of these pitfalls and has instead delivered awesomely funny moment after awesomely funny moment that a) weren't that loud/flashy/strong/pungent/extreme (pick an adjective) and that b) usually are gone as quickly as they came, with the characters in-universe responding to them just as people would in the real world. There's no stupid facefaulting. There's no stupid "EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!?"s where inappropriate. It's just normal, normal reactions to some rather humorous moments. Some of the ones which come to mind include:

Spoiler: show
  • When the boy from Vienna, "Wien", prostrates himself on the ground while being introduced to his new classmates.
  • When Wien is writing a letter to his friend back home in Vienna, and he mentions how Japan is tough to figure out, and how he hopes to show him Japan some day ... and then it cuts to Wien's bookshelf in an otherwise ritsy bitsy mature bedroom ... and we see five sentai action figures on top of it.
  • When Sawa goes to the hospital to look for their old homeroom teacher and is waiting in the maternity ward. P.A.Works handled it perfectly. This is exactly the sort of thing I am talking about.

The vice principal is such a bitch. It seems to be hinted at though that there are reasons for her attitude. Guess I should spoiler tag these too, just in case, even though it's just personal speculation informed by the first two episodes' worth of material.

Spoiler: show
As far as her bitchiness towards Konatsu is concerned, it seems to be hinted at that there's some element of the vice principal seeing herself in Konatsu. Or rather, that the vice principal had a failed career in music and wound up where she is now -- a music instructor and vice principal at some high school rather than being a professional singer/pianist/whatever -- and that she's just naturally very bitter about it.

As far as Wakai's mother and the song goes, those seem to all be interconnected. A, it seems like Wakai's mother wrote that specific song that Konatsu discovered in the club room and likes so much. B, it seems like the vice principal and Wakai's mother were best friends, possibly even members of the same musical group. A + B + the strongly hinted at fact of Wakai's mother being dead --> this is why the vice principal wanted to box the song and forbid Konatsu from singing it. Because the song means a lot to the VP, and because she felt like it'd be insulting Sakai's mother's memory if someone like Konatsu were to be allowed to sing it for her own silly little club (as the VP perceives it).

Still, it doesn't mean that I have to like her. Man oh man am I worried about {the thing that's revealed at the end of Episode 02}!

Meina no Fukurou: I've got about five pages to go before Chapter 01's complete. (I'm through page 22 by the tankoubon's page count, and what I'm calling the last page of the chapter is page 27.) I really wish that as if by magic a friendly and capable image editor had fallen into my lap, but of course that hasn't happened and so I'm not really sure what I'll do. I'm not going to waste hours and hours of my time on trying to professionally PhotoShop in the text (especially when the way I do it it's still going to look like crap ), but I might wind up doing Chapter 01 all by myself just to try and get people interested. And then maybe, maybe, if it starts to circulate or something, who knows: maybe I'll find someone who's willing and able to help me edit the pictures. Hell, I could even say to them as their assignment, "Re-edit Chapter 01 and show me what it'd look like when you do it."
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