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Old 12-28-2019, 10:38 AM   #5501
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I lost a game against a Machine Earth deck that I could have beaten had I normal summoned Thunder Dragondark.

I had used Dingirsu to kill one of his XYZ monsters after blocking his searches with Colossus. My mistake was not summoning another Colossus, which would have had several protections, and also retrieving Shaddoll Fusion once Construct hit the grave. I was so focused on summoning Cosmic Blazar Dragon that I ignored this would have been the safer play to stall.

Ding has decent protection but I realize now that Colossus and Winda are MUCH better bosses to sit on. Just having protection isn't good enough.

Had I kept Colossus I wouldn't have wasted my sole Effect Veiler, and I topdeck'd Doppelwarrior the next turn, reinforcing the lesson that this was a mistake.
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Old 12-28-2019, 11:37 AM   #5502
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FINALLY! Well, SORT OF.



I finally beat DDD. The choke point is Gust King Alexander, whose Special Summon effect is a hard once per turn. Using II on it allowed me to avoid the more powerful spell negator synchros, giving him a field of:

Crystal Wing
Flame King Ghengis
Odd-Eyes Meteor Burst
Oblivion King Ragnarok
Clotheep

I was able to use Shaddoll Fusion on this field, summoning Construct. He negated Shaddoll Hedgehog's add which allowed me to summon Cosmic. Unfortunately, I overlooked that Odd-Eyes negates Battle Effects, but had I known this I would have run over Odd-Eyes with Cosmic instead of another monster. A technicality, but illegal nonetheless.

After that I had to push through the 3200 Attack Odd-Eyes and then pressure his draws, which is why Dark Law is there.

The only cards I didn't use were Final Sigma and Dingirsu in a 12 card Extra. I wonder if I will be using Links to fill in the gaps after this.
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Old 12-29-2019, 02:37 PM   #5503
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Aight blaze I got a swing spot, what do you think would be the overall most useful option here?

Monster Reborn
Instant Fusion (TER, Winda), Relinquished Anima
Black Luster Soldier
Dark Ruler No More
Called by the Grave
Raigeki
Shaddoll Fusion
Mask Change II (Dark Law)
Radian, the Multi Dimensional Kaiju

The only non-searcher spells I run are Shaddoll Fusion and Twin Twisters. With the high thining and draw power there's no longer a need to run x3 of cards like Tuning or Twin Twisters. And in fact, some of those cards become very dead late game.

Merits of each:

Monster Reborn - probably the weakest card on this list, there are few monsters that I want to revive with this at any point in the game. Thunder Dragon Colossus can't be revived after Contact Fusion, and neither can Blazar.

Instant Fusion - non destruction removal but not necessarily the best use of resources here, requiring two deck slots

BLS - can banish and trigger Thunder Dragon effects, and is good for Dingirsu fodder. But is dead early game and might not be good enough late game.

Dark Ruler no More - good at breaking stupid fields but I have six hand traps to deal with that already, along with kaijus. A consistent out to Nibiru would be better.

Called by the Grave - good for stopping the omnipresent Ash Blossom and has usage at all stages of the game, but very matchup dependant.

Raigeki - destruction immunity and floating make this card punishing. Negators don't help either.

Shaddoll Fusion - I already run two, three is good for consistency and enabling early plays, but will 100% be dead late game since I run so few Shaddolls.

Mask Change II - situational activation requirements mean it can be dead.

Radian - I already run this, three adds consistency and better Allure fodder than a Shaddoll monster, but it's a hard -1.
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Old 12-29-2019, 02:54 PM   #5504
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Called. For sure.
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Old 12-29-2019, 04:47 PM   #5505
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What do you think would be better fodder for Unknown Synchron: Relinquished Anima or Linkuriboh? Would it be better to not even run links?

The question arose because I initially though Unknown Synchron could be easy, searchable removal with Relinquished Anima, but Anima sort of sucks since it can only remove the monster linked to the zone it's summoned to, and since it only summons to the Extra Zone it's situational. It's good for getting Unknown Synchron into the grave, but Linkuriboh can do that too.

But when I used Linkuriboh, it made opponent cards live, especially those that required a Link monster or something in the Extra Zone. Chimeratech Megafleet Dragon and two monsters from the hand that I don't remember were the clear examples.

Right now I'm only running an 8 card Extra, because I don't know what else to put in place. There are some turns where I can't summon stuff and just pass, usually turns clogged by Thunder Dragons or Shaddoll Beast.

A draw card would be ideal to get rid of these large monsters (Levels 5-7), but I don't have ideas on what to use. That's how I ended up discovering this "swing spot", a brick that you consistently run into that stops turn momentum.
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Old 12-29-2019, 08:05 PM   #5506
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Honestly it sounds like neither is any good.
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:00 PM   #5507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
There isn't a fusion that does vvhat you vvant it to.

Or, vvait. Maybe Invocation?
I found one.

https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Necro_Fusion

Being a trap isn't a big downside because after summoning Blazar with Star Shaman, I can't summon Fusions during my turn anyway.

That said, right now I'm using three Radian, but I might incorporate Thunder Dragon Fusion and start running Titan as well. Another consideration is swapping out Radian for BLS, to both remove cards as well as create Dingirsu fodder.

Close to my entire deck is Chaos-themed now. The only monsters of any errant attribute are Tatsunoko (Water), Martial Metal Marcher (Wind), and Cosmic Blazar Dragon (Wind).
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Old 12-30-2019, 02:36 AM   #5508
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Looks like I'm not the only one working on this combo loops. Although as you can tell from the quality of this guy's draws, he has absolutely no follow-up if that Quasar/Blazar field gets outed, and everything meta these days has outs to negators. I've spent half my duels on DN trying to break into the DDD fields.

(I don't know how he summoned Jet Synchron without a discard or Qwilbolt Hedgehog from the hand)

As the commenter noted, this guy could have stopped at Crystal Wing and Herald which is a stronger play than Quasar + Blazar. Using Junk Speeder also necessitated running bad cards like Satellite Synchron and two Jet Synchrons which isn't optimal at all.
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Old 12-30-2019, 04:23 AM   #5509
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UGHHH I got to face Nekroz again after 4 years. Was I traumatized back then? Battling it again was very cringe, even though I had an overwhelmingly potent hand to deal with it (x2 Infinite Impermanence, Effect Veiler, Tuning, Doppelwarrior).

I'm slowly remembering the strategies to beat Nekroz. Toward the end of that early Pendulum format, which was dominated by Qli, Burning Abyss, Shaddolls and Nekroz, I was using Vanity's Emptiness and Dark Law to lock them out.

The TCG had x3 ROTA in that format so going first I could explode pretty hard and set a bunch of traps to deal with them. If Denko Sekka dropped I had Effect Veiler to neutralize her.

The battle today did raise a question, though: Can Infinite Impermanence be played twice from the hand in the same chain? I thought No, so I allowed Valkyrus to search even though I didn't want it to.
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Old 12-30-2019, 08:38 AM   #5510
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No because you control the first Infinite Impermanence on the field
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Old 12-30-2019, 08:07 PM   #5511
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That's what I figured. It's been so long I forgot how to disrupt Nekroz properly.

But man, DDD. I can't believe this won't be one of the top decks. Under MR5 will it really be that much weaker than Orcusts and Salamangreats? Not that I've played any of those, but.



My opening was Colossus + Winda. He fusion summoned Ghengis, which has a built-in negate for Infinite Impermanence, then he ran over Winda and spammed a load of things. So many things I don't really understand the sequence. All I know is his field ended with:

Flame High King Ghengis
Oblivion King Abyss King Ragnarok (defense)
Abyss King Gilgamesh
Super Doom King Bright Armageddon

With a set Dark Contract with the Witch.

Now, I was pretty confident I could break this field because he gave me back Shaddoll Fusion, and with Extra Deck monsters I could summon Construct and dig in. Or so I figured.

It took many turns to beat him down. Dingirsu's one-off removal is great for not triggering float effects but it's not a worldbeater by any stretch. I couldn't run over any of the DDD monsters with it, and had to rely on Blazar and Shaddoll Squamata to remove the rest of the field.

Hence, I've noticed (another) hole in my deck construction: not a lot of point or mass removal. I have some, but nothing like the old Stardust Stun days of BLS/Scrap Dragon ripping apart boards.
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Old 12-30-2019, 08:12 PM   #5512
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The big problem with D/D/D is that its weak to There Can Be Only One or Gozen Match. It doesn't have a good way to play around those cards.
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:33 PM   #5513
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Early DDD's I played against were running Called by the Grave to thwart Ash Blossom and Effect Veiler, surely DDD has enough draw power on turn 1 to run a few Cosmic Cyclones?

What I did notice was that the turn 1 big board DDD deck was crippled by a well-timed veiler on Alexander, but that field was still easier to deal with than the one in the screenshot. I had the resources but it was still annoying that DDD could build a big board AFTER outing Winda. And by Trap was completely neutralized by the play.

...

I played against Invokers and shut it down. But it was scary as I heard this was a meta deck alongside Zoodiacs at the end of the Pendulum Era.

The deck was built off Thunder Dragon - Windwitch - Invokers. My opponent opened:

Thunder Dragon
Instant Fusion x2
Windwitch - Ice Bell
Aleister the Invoker
Invocation

I still feel like I barely beat this somehow. I don't quite get it.
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Old 12-31-2019, 09:55 PM   #5514
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I figured my out to Nibiru!!

ARTIFACT DURENDAL!

Summon Thunder Dragondark, Instant Fusion a Level 5 (Winda), make Durendal then set your hand.

Now it's possible to spam out the butt without fear of disruption. Yay!


On the field.
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Last edited by Doppleganger; 12-31-2019 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 01-01-2020, 05:48 AM   #5515
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So how effective is Dark Law still against the top decks?

I faced Altergeists and Evil Eyes. I was able to lock out Evil Eyes with Dark Law, but Altergeists managed to pressure me with their backrow that I couldn't shut down. I ended up getting Blazar bounced because I didn't understand how their disruption worked, although I didn't have the cards to be immune to those effects anyway.

So I guess the good decks are,

Salads
Orcust
Invoked
Evil Eye?

And Orcust is going to run Danger! or Thunder Dragons as an engine. I've yet to battle Salads.
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Old 01-01-2020, 08:46 AM   #5516
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Evil Eye is super, super rogue.
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Old 01-01-2020, 02:30 PM   #5517
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Is there a way to shortcut the summon to Apollusa? 4 materials without Level Eater, no Normal Summon is remarkably difficult to achieve. I can do three pretty easily and reasonably consistently, but they all involve Instant Fusion.
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Old 01-01-2020, 03:39 PM   #5518
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You can summon Apollousa vvith tvvo or three materials if you use links. You don't have to hard summon her vvith 4 materials.
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Old 01-01-2020, 04:01 PM   #5519
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You still need 4 mats though, because you need 3 mats to summon a link 3 or 2 mats to summon a link 2.

To give an example, if I summon Construct, I can send Shaddoll Falco and then send both for Needlefiber, who then summons another tuner to make Link 3. But at this point, I still need another summon from somewhere to get to Apollousa. The only way I can get that mat without a normal summon is Instant Fusion or summoning Radian.
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Old 01-01-2020, 04:12 PM   #5520
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I mean that example doesn't vvork either. Falco is face-dovvn.

If you summon GUB vvith needlefiber you can make apollousa.
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Old 01-01-2020, 05:06 PM   #5521
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Looks like this was a dead end. Not being able to use Falco is a big hindrance, as that was what I was counting on for free advantage.

I'm going to start experimenting with using Thunder Dragon Fusion instead of Shaddoll Fusion. Thunder Dragons burn/thin the deck remarkably quick, which is great, but not on the first turn which is pretty bad.

I rebuilt my September 2014 deck to try and remember how stuff ran during that format. I definitely, 100% would use triple ROTA, drop Tuning and run fewer Junks/Doppels if possible. Outing something like Rai-Oh or Colossus isn't so hard with the draws and fusion summons.
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Old 01-01-2020, 05:33 PM   #5522
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ETCO-JP043 飢鰐竜アーケティス Kigakuryuu Archetis (Ravenous Crocosaur Archetis )
Level 9 WATER Fish Synchro Effect Monster
ATK 1000
DEF 1000
1 Tuner + 1 non-Tuner monster
You can only use the 1st and 3rd effects of this card’s name once per turn.
(1) If this card is Synchro Summoned: You can activate this effect; draw 1 card for each non-Tuner monster used as material to Synchro Summon this card.
(2) This card gains 500 ATK/DEF for each card in your hand.
(3) (Quick Effect): You can discard 2 cards, then target 1 card on the field; destroy that card.

This nevv boi looks good
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Old 01-01-2020, 08:17 PM   #5523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
ETCO-JP043 飢鰐竜アーケティス Kigakuryuu Archetis (Ravenous Crocosaur Archetis )
Level 9 WATER Fish Synchro Effect Monster
ATK 1000
DEF 1000
1 Tuner + 1 non-Tuner monster
You can only use the 1st and 3rd effects of this card’s name once per turn.
(1) If this card is Synchro Summoned: You can activate this effect; draw 1 card for each non-Tuner monster used as material to Synchro Summon this card.
(2) This card gains 500 ATK/DEF for each card in your hand.
(3) (Quick Effect): You can discard 2 cards, then target 1 card on the field; destroy that card.

This nevv boi looks good
omg

Is this for real?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Barring that, I get 3 + 5 with Thunder Dragondark for Berserker, Omega, or Stardust Dragon. Yazi, Coral are also possible but the Level 9, 10 and 11 Synchros are so underwhelming I'm considering punting the entire lot. No defensive utility and limited offense.
One of the big problems with the Tatsunoko loop is you end up with a lot of cards in hand that are dead-ish late game, this definitely solves a lot of those problems!

HOWEVER!

I am not using the Tatsunoko loop at all right now. I had to replay my old decks to know why, and here's the history lesson on my past win conditions.

...

September 2014

Draw unsearchable backrow, summon Stardust to protect said backrow, stun the opponent with Veiler/backrow until the Stardusts beat them down. In this format, effect negation was limited to Breakthrough Skill, Fiendish Chain, and Effect Veiler, so it was hard to stop.

September 2016

Summon Quasar, Durendal and Dark Law, but hand loop the opponent and lock out their Graveyard so they couldn't fight back. This was accomplished by one loop through Trishula, then repeating it using Level Eater until Quasar could be summoned. Drawing through the deck allowed consistent access to Mask Change II, Vanity's Emptiness.

This deck was susceptible to Raigeki and Interrupted Kaiju Slumber, but sniping 3 cards from the hand limited what the opponent could do. Any search was disrupted by Dark Law, any effect negated by Quasar, so they'd really have to mount a comeback with one card.

Link Format

Send Junk Synchron and Hanewata for Junk Synchron, who then makes Accel Synchron, who then creates Librarian + Formula. Uh, then through some magic I forgot, create Blazar Dragon on the opponents turn. An inconsistent, noncompetitive mess of a deck.

...

I've found that Solemn Judgment without Dark Law isn't very good. Some decks are resilient enough to survive some banishing but not all of them. There's also no blanket floodgate to limit special summons from the deck like Vanity's available anymore, so the payoff for deep drawing into the deck is minimal.

Blazar is the win condition and I've yet to lose unless the opponent had sphere mode or kaijus. Dark Law would be a good secondary win condition but I don't see much way to fit him in without losing the ability to play into big boards.

Winda is a decent pseudo-Dark Law but her effect hurts my ability to spam too, since I can't turn her effect off. So even though Librarian deep draw is tempting, with the intent to draw more Infinite Impermanence and Effect Veilers, it's not as strong a payoff as it once was.

I can't decide what would be the best combination here. The Synchro monsters definitely don't feel as efficient as they could be.
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Old 01-01-2020, 09:51 PM   #5524
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Yeah that card just got announced. I definitely vvant to play around vvith it and Ib, as Ib can search VVorld Legacy Monstrosity along vvith it.
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Old 01-01-2020, 10:07 PM   #5525
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Connecticut is getting a YCS after MR4R.

Google hovv do I build Shaddolls
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