Lost Daughters (Splice)

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Doppelganger

And that book #2 sounds horribly interesting; I've always imagined books chiding the feminist movement existed somewhere beyond the reach of even college folk, and here you've claimed to have read part of one!

Sadly, I did not write down the name of the book nor did I scan its front cover. However, I have named the folder which houses the scanned pages "antirmt", so I believe that the title may contain the words Recovered Memory Therapy or its alternate Repressed Memory Therapy. I have uploaded the scanned images to Rapidshare -- they total 2 MB in size and are a fast and compelling read. (Without even intending to, I found myself on Page 10 of 17 before I stopped myself to go ahead and upload these for you!)

http://rapidshare.com/files/99216229/antirmt.rar.html

I would like to clarify before things get out of hand that neither I nor the author of this book are against women's rights and psychiatry. What we share in common is that we dislike extreme (fringe) feminism, the kind which disallows happy coexistence with men and disallows the possibility for happy, wholesome heterosexual relationships and insists that the only wholesome spousal relationship a woman will ever find herself in must needs be a homosexual one with a fellow woman; and we also dislike the use of RMT in psychiatry because it is (frankly) the most Freudian technique of the 20th Century that I've ever heard of -- and that's no compliment. (Freud being the man who coined the psychiatric term "in denial," meaning that anyone who denies having done something wrong has done that something wrong and is just "in denial" about it. Such a practice is as much an immoral Catch-22 as is the Bible's claim that "anyone who tries to convince you that the Gospel here is false are themselves false.")

Obviously the fight for women's rights is a just and noble cause, just as the fight for the rights of racial minorities and religious minorities is a just cause; but just as things can get out of control with those movements (e.g. Black Panthers), so too can things get out of control with feminism. Things can get out of control with any noble creed or intention. Having stated that, read the pages I've uploaded and tell me that you (a) don't believe the author and (b) that you're not moved by what a loving father he was despite the sickening betrayal by his wife and heart-stopping accusations from his daughter and son. That his efforts to restore his broken relationship with people who were pretty much accusing him of being one of the nastiest creatures alive don't move you one little bit.

[Talon87]

I found the book on Amazon. I realized that at the top of each left page are the words "Lost Daughters," and of course it should just so happen that the title of the book includes both those words and RMT.

I think the comments section is very telling: two people found the book to be very good and ranked it 4/5 or 5/5 stars. But the first person to write a review gave it the lowest possible score (1/5), a scathing review, and -- if you read the pages I uploaded for you -- a factually inaccurate review. They claim that the man is arrogant -- he is anything but. They claim that the man doesn't care about his children's well-being and only cares about himself -- yet he writes "I realize that [my children] have the pain of losing their parents just as profoundly as [we] have the pain of losing our children" as well as "I've sent [the children] letters [...] begging for some kind of reconciliation. I've sent gifts on their birthdays. There have been no replies to the letters, and the gifts have come back with no acknowledgment and no return address."

I think it's possible that the first commenter is actually one of his two children, still brainwashed as of 1999. The tone in the comment seems so "I'm the victim here! Not you!" to me that I can't believe it's an outraged 3rd party feminist writing in. It really smacks of something you'd imagine one of the two kids would angrily submit. Real sad, and perhaps the only reason why nobody has removed the comment from Amazon's review section despite its fallaciousness.

[Doppleganger]

You most likely won't be surprised, but I'm also of the "moderate" group when it comes to feminism - I hate the extremists but bear no ill-will for the people who just ask for tolerance. I'm perhaps a bit more conservative than most folks since I treat equality as the norm in everything I do rather than make special exception to it - this opinion usually puts me at odds whenever people are speaking for "feminist equality" on TV because that usually registers in my brain as extremism, given the already gender neutral environment I live and contribute to.

Feminist extremism interests me because my aunt was what one could consider a former "feminazi" and seemed to bear grudes against me for my [neo-]traditional ("gentleman-like") treatment of women. My grandfather was a disciplinarian, having been trained as a Marine, but otherwise wasn't ill-natured; he favoured my aunt above my Dad and uncle, and for some reason this has conditioned her to be sharply critical of men like him! I don't know why, and it's interesting to me why that's the case - the same goes for kids in Britain who are raised in comfort and don't know the horrors of murder and violence in chaotic streets of the turbulent Middle East to be easily swayed into Jihad. Or, alternatively, why the Baby Boomers are so greedy/adulterous/religiously fanatical/corrupt compared with their parents.

I'll look into this, it sounds like a smashing read.

[Kasumi Violet]

I'm probably more on the extreme end of feminism. But that doesn't mean I'm rude to people who do nice things for me. I do resent it when guys act like they're entitled to things because they did something nice. I mean, I don't expect anything in return when I do things for others, I don't get why some guys thinks it's different if they're male and you're female, I mean, saying "thank you" is proper and should be said, but anything beyond that isn't anything anyone's entitled to. Male or female.

- KV

[Cubone17]

I guess I am kind of moderate on this and such. I am all for equal rights under the law for everyone. However I am against the feminists usualy referred to as "Feminazi" the ones that seem more to want to destroy and punish men instead of trying to get equal rights

[The Morg]

What did women ever do that they need to be "tolerated"? Every time someone says they "tolerate" you, it always feels like they're saying they respect you in spite of who you are rather than because of who you are.

[Doppleganger]

That's true. Come to think of it I'm not sure of any synonyms for tolerance that lack such a connotation - acceptance? Equality? Camaraderie?

[Talon87]

Acceptance would be better; equality is best. To tolerate means to put up with. Not a very positive word. Incidentally, that's not how I read Doppel's post at all, though, and it took Morg's criticism to make me realize that he'd used that word. I know Doppel's no chauvinist and he definitely doesn't "tolerate" women. So I guess knowing him made me read what he meant and not what he wrote.

KV, I wouldn't consider you to be an extremist in feminism. ^^; And that's a good thing, too. Feminist extremists are to men what the KKK are to racial minorities. They're the radical members of the feminist movement who believe things like (with my comments in italic parentheses):

1. All men are pigs. It's just their nature and they can't help it. (Yeah, okay. Every last one of us, huh?)[/*241etf02]
2. Men aren't just pigs, but pigs who ought to be sent to the slaughterhouse. We'd be better off without them. (Wow, so chauvinism is a crime worthy of death. Interesting ...)[/*241etf02]
3. No man truly loves a woman. (And I suppose only a woman can? Hello double-standard.)[/*241etf02]
4. Men promote the suffering of women. (An individual man may promote the suffering of women; but the group of men who promote suffering in this world do so regardless of race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation. There are people of all backgrounds in this world who suffer at the hands of men. And it is also important to note that there are people in this world who suffer at the hands of women! It's not like it's just the men who are the inflicters of pain and causers of suffering in this world! What an arrogant, one-sided view these extremists hold!)[/*241etf02]
5. Men who claim they respect you and treat you as an equal are liars. (This smacks of the same denial that Biblethumpers offer against the persuasive arguments of atheists. "It says right here that I'm not supposed to trust you -- so even if you seem trustworthy, it simply means you're one slick liar!" Cue roll of the eyes. )[/*241etf02]

I could go on and on, but you get the picture. When I say "feminist extremists" (and I think the other guys here agree with me), I'm talking about the women who don't really want equality but want sole custody of this planet. The women who are as hateful towards us as skinheads are towards Jews. The women who can never take a man's good deed at face value and must always look for the hidden ulterior motive behind it. To those women, I say "you are a bigot, and the world would be a better place without bigotry."

[The Morg]

The number of women who hold those beliefs is waaaay lower than the number of men who have the exact same beliefs about women, especially #3 and 5. Proof.

[Doppleganger]

They're a lot more vocal, though. We all know male chauvinists exist, but where they exist (usually in rural areas untouched by time) puts them far away from mainstream society. Not to imply I don't like chauvinists either, though; they're just as bad.

And lol @ Morg's link. I think this would have been most accurate but there's bigots throughout that place.

Incidentally, getting the link I just posted reminded me why I hate /b/. :x First post is of a guy holding up a ziplock bag with the bloodied head of a decapitated mouse, and his text is "All right, /b/, anorexic OP here. So remember those mice I was talking about?".

-_-