big bad birtha's suggestion box 2: secret passions unveiled

[Talon87]

I think the shock value of Astarotte is low because we've seen it all at this point.

ToLoveRu - perverted manga gets its own TV show, features uncensored tentacle rape scenes in the BD releases
Kiss x Sis - non-blood-related incest makes the jump from OAVs to television
Motto ToLoveRu - the sequel to ToLoveRu introduces even more softcore sex scenes, tentacle rape scenes, etc. It even shows supple naked breasts on the BDs!
Yosuga no Sora - blood-related incest game gets its own TV show, features uncensored breasts in BD releases
Seikon no Qwaser - lactation-related manga gets its own TV show, features uncensored breasts, lactation in BD releases
Panty and Stocking - Ren and Stimpy XXX meets the Powerpuff Girls, Adults Only content galore

So while Astarotte's premise is grossly offensive to everyone except pedophiles and lolikons, it's also none too surprising.

Astarotte's character design? 100% Disgaea's. Here's Etna from Disgaea, and here's Astarotte from Astarotte no Omocha.

Astarotte's voice actress? Why, Kugimiya Rie, of course. Poor Rie: typecast eternally as the tsundere loli.

Etc, etc. Will stop here so as to end the post. But you get my point: Astarotte is almost laughably following the cookie-cutter "How to make a show for the lolikon otaku" formula to a T. Flat chest, check. 10 years of age in looks, check. (Spice things up by making her calendar age also 10 to really titillate 'em.) Kugimiya Rie, check. Precocious tsundere who hasn't quite hit / is about to hit the beginning of puberty, check. What more could they ask for?

That stated, I'm a little bitter, admittedly: 'cause I'd totally be watching this show if she were more mature. This show was made for a succubus fan like me. (Can't even begin to estimate how many succubus stories I have on my hard drive ...) So ... yeah. Very disappointed that they decided to go the loli route here. >_>; Disappointed, disgusted, both. Oh well.

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by Talon87

No. -.-; She clearly likes Tohru. Your Minchi x Ohana yuri theory is shot down by a taking-things-too-seriously Talon.

XD I just said "at first". I had no idea whom she was referring to at the time, as I didn't previously notice she had much in the way of a relationship with Tohru. If anything it seems like he's more interested in Ohana. (I foresee romantic rivalries.)

But seriously, who notices a guy's eyelashes?

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

But seriously, who notices a guy's eyelashes?

People notice mine 'cause they're long. ._. #genetics

[unownmew]

Originally Posted by Talon87

No. -.-; She clearly likes Tohru. Your Minchi x Ohana yuri theory is shot down by a taking-things-too-seriously Talon.

I read about Astarotte yesterday, unownmew. Funny you'd have just started it. Well, I was interested until I saw what it entailed: a flat-chested 10 year old loli having to drink semen from her harem of adult males. If I didn't know better I'd think it was a lolikon eroanime. WTF. She's ten in looks -and- calendar age. They're not even trying to hide it anymore. >_>; Gah. I'll stick to Seikon no Qwaser, thank you, where at least the breasts are supple and large, the fluid drank is breastmilk, and the girls are at least in high school.

In defense, the "having to drink semen" isn't part of the anime, they make it clear she's not matured enough to need it, they use it to help drive the plot and give reason for the guy to be there (to be the potential harem member once she's matured).

But, in fact, so far there is absolutely no romance, and the guy ends up more like a father figure to her then a romantic or sexual interest. There's awkward situations similar to but not as extreme or sexualizing, as Kiss X Sis.

But if big breasts and breast milk is more your thing, Astarotte has that too. One of Astarotte's more busty female attendents it's mentioned provides the milk that's drunk (she's like the Cow), but they only show enough to prove to the viewer that she's really the one providing it, and then leave it at that. And Astarotte's Mother is quite the busty succubus.

The content matter is mature and the clothing most everyone wears is revealing in some manner, but I don't think there's a single scene in there that's actually sexual in nature.

I think you would find the manga more tolerable then the anime, if you can get past the Loli main characters, but either way I didn't expect you to like it Talon.

Originally Posted by Talon87

I think the shock value of Astarotte is low because we've seen it all at this point.

ToLoveRu - perverted manga gets its own TV show, features uncensored tentacle rape scenes in the BD releases
Kiss x Sis - non-blood-related incest makes the jump from OAVs to television
Motto ToLoveRu - the sequel to ToLoveRu introduces even more softcore sex scenes, tentacle rape scenes, etc. It even shows supple naked breasts on the BDs!
Yosuga no Sora - blood-related incest game gets its own TV show, features uncensored breasts in BD releases
Seikon no Qwaser - lactation-related manga gets its own TV show, features uncensored breasts, lactation in BD releases
Panty and Stocking - Ren and Stimpy XXX meets the Powerpuff Girls, Adults Only content galore

So while Astarotte's premise is grossly offensive to everyone except pedophiles and lolikons, it's also none too surprising.

Astarotte's character design? 100% Disgaea's. Here's Etna from Disgaea, and here's Astarotte from Astarotte no Omocha.

Astarotte's voice actress? Why, Kugimiya Rie, of course. Poor Rie: typecast eternally as the tsundere loli.

Etc, etc. Will stop here so as to end the post. But you get my point: Astarotte is almost laughably following the cookie-cutter "How to make a show for the lolikon otaku" formula to a T. Flat chest, check. 10 years of age in looks, check. (Spice things up by making her calendar age also 10 to really titillate 'em.) Kugimiya Rie, check. Precocious tsundere who hasn't quite hit / is about to hit the beginning of puberty, check. What more could they ask for?

That stated, I'm a little bitter, admittedly: 'cause I'd totally be watching this show if she were more mature. This show was made for a succubus fan like me. (Can't even begin to estimate how many succubus stories I have on my hard drive ...) So ... yeah. Very disappointed that they decided to go the loli route here. >_>; Disappointed, disgusted, both. Oh well.

Well, they have to follow the manga premise, and the manga features the Loli, but I agree it would be nice to see a more mature Succubus story.

The funny thing, IMO, is that the story seems to revolves more around a "family" premise then a "sexualize the main character" one. The man chosen as the potential harem candidate has a child whom he cares for greatly, and ends up acting more like Astarotte's father then a Harem member. Astarotte's mother is getting more and more screen-time, and it's evident the relationship between her and her daughter, while a bit strained, is an important one. Besides the comedy, the fact that succubi need to suck "Life seed" (which is used as a running joke/tease like a family member would do), the very revealing clothing many of the characters wear, and the man's Daughter's quirky habit, this would be more an Anime about a happy family staring the two young girls.

[Talon87]

See, that's cool and all (really) but the sexualized premise surrounding the 10-year old is there and very real. That's cool that it isn't the focus of the show. That's great that they have real women providing sexy fanservice. But whether it be the anime or the manga, the 10-year old succubus is still there. Would have been fine if she was to grow up into one at age 16, 18, 20. But the fact that she's already started gathering the harem (even if against her will) speaks to the intended sexualization of a child in this series.

Loli succubi are not rare in hentai: but thankfully they are not the norm. (Easily I'd say the odds favor mature females to loli ones 3:1 in succubus hentai stories.)

[Doppleganger]

Hey Talon, I need to borrow your eye of evaluation.

In terms of breast size, how would you size up this girl? And for curiosity's sake, please give her a rating as well. I'm concerned because whenever I see her in a bikini shot, with a chest that full, it looks like her back would snap at any moment. It's not a flattering picture but I can't really find a bikini shot atm that actually has her face.

And just for kicks, that character's name is Tsukiji Tae.

[Talon87]

I'd say D cup. You have to remember that things like eye size, breast size, etc are out of proportion in anime-style drawings. Her breasts look perfectly natural to me: big, yes, back-breaking, no.

[Doppleganger]

Here's a better image, I probably should have gone to danbooru first instead of search the raw AF extracts.

Incidentally, while looking up a comparison chart to figure out what exactly "D Cup" looks like relative to the standard, I found this as a relative chart for Japanese measurements. By this scale, all the characters in Muv-Luv are E+, save three. o_o

[Talon87]

Well, by the Japanese scale photo you've provided, she's an F. By the American scale / by my eye, she's a D. If you were to physically superimpose an image of breast cup sizes onto her body, you'd probably find that she's much larger: but the perceived cup size (as opposed to a real measured one) is a psychological effect and the fact remains that, in anime, most girls have exaggerated breast sizes and so men are left with two choices:

a) begin to perceive the anime womens' breasts "scaled," i.e. see what's physically an American DD as a C, see what's physically an American C as a B or an A, etc.

-OR-

b) keep perceiving the anime womens' breasts "raw," i.e. see what's dimensionally a DD as a DD, even if that means that every woman in the anime world now has B-cup breasts or larger

Probably because of all the hentai I have read over the years, it was inevitable that I'd fall into Camp A. But I was a member of that camp even from the very beginning, so I don't think exposure is the major factor in determining which sort of guy you are. I think it's something that varies from person to person innately, and whether it's genetic or not I don't know. I just know that a lot of guys fall into Camp A and a lot of guys fall into Camp B and it perpetually creates arguments over whether a certain character is flat-chested or not, whether a certain character is unhealthily busty or not, etc.

[Talon87]

Here are some sample images for the sake of conversation ... (while still NSFW, they have been censored to try and avoid being taken down from Photobucket)

High School of the Dead sample
This is taken from a doujin by Kloah (circle name is Gate of XIII). I submit this as an example of "still nice to look at but definitely ridiculously/inhumanly large." I submit it also as an example of "eww wtf" repulsive were we to see the 1:1 scale equivalent IRL. It's attractive in hentai where our brains (well, us Group A guys' brains, anyway) convert the image from an actual size W (or whatever the hell these would be) to something more akin to a Japanese G cup or I cup, the sorts of breast sizes you find on some of Japan's sexier porn stars. (See Hamasaki Rio worksafe sample for comparison. She is a real-life G cup. Her breasts are nice. 1:1 scale-wise, they're also what you'd expect out of a hentai D-cup. But I'm saying us Group A guys would equate the sample you see here to Hamasaki Rio.) Just as in real life a G-cup breast can cause pain 'n' strain, so too would I submit this HOTD sample as an example of hentai which would make me say, "Hmm, these breasts are probably too big to be comfortable. "

Touhou sample
This is taken from a doujin by the circle waterwheel. This is Heaven for me. This is like the perfect shape and size. I would equate these to an irl D cup but I'm sure most people in Group B would give me funny looks and say, "WTF!? Dude, those are like J or K cup, seriously." Again, us Group A'ers feel like you can't / shouldn't equate what you see on paper to what you see in real life 1:1. Just like you wouldn't call an anime character "hot" and intend that to send your family the message that your ideal woman has eyes that are four times normal size, we'd say that you don't intend by calling this girl's breasts "mega-hot" that you want the 1:1 real-life equivalent. You want the real life scaled equivalent, i.e. deliciously large but still within the realm of normalcy. You are a fan of big breasts. You like the C and the D cups. You aren't trying to send any message about being a fetishist for beach ball-sized breasts. The fact is, this size of breasts is par for the course in kyonyuu hentai. So you equate it to the irl-par for the course large breast sizes -- the C's and D's.

original work sample
This is a sample from a CG-doujin written and drawn by the Pixiv user joy ride (circle name = Yorokobi no Kuni). I submit this as an example of what I'd say are probably meant to be irl D cup breasts and which a Group B person would probably agree are D cup breasts but which a group A person (like myself) would look at and think "large B or small C." Thing is, I see them now as D anyway because later in the story, when she takes off her shirt, he draws her breasts much fuller, both wider and longer, overall larger period, and those breasts I saw as delicious D's. Whereas a Group B'er would probably have seen her unclothed size as F. (Couldn't post those as samples, unfortunately, because would have required too much questionable censorship and PhotoBucket would have still probably taken it down.)

Love Plus sample
I don't know if you remember when I posted this a while back, but here's one of the samples I posted of a Love Plus doujin written by Yoshiron (circle name = Kusari Caterpillar). I would submit these again as ideal hentai breasts in all senses (shape, size, everything). And I'd say I see them as a perfectly normal / human size. D's. But I'm sure again most people in Group B (the 1:1 literalists) would see these and say "holy shit those are bigger than her head those have got to be G's or I's or J's or omg I don't even know" and freak out. So shrug.

[McSweeney]

I caught Madoka fever and watched it all in the past couple days.

This show blew my god damn mind. Kind of reminded me of my first experience with Higurashi, in that it's a fairly normal, happy go lucky show for the first few episodes, with some hints sprinkled around of utter lunacy coming later. I mean, Madoka's primary priority when they go around witch hunting for the first time is to bring a sketch book full of costume designs, but it quickly becomes apparent that this won't be the fun life that they imagined, and they're actually in a world of shit!

Among anime that do a dark take on the magical girl genre, this completely blows Nanoha out of the water. Best magical girl show I've seen period, with the possible exception of Princess Tutu. I was actually preparing to be disappointed, since people had hyped up Nanoha in a similar manner, but this? This is the real deal.

[lilboocorsola]

LOL boobies.

Muv-Luv update: I'm at the cooking contest. I think I'm going to choose Ayamine (mysterious dark-haired girl) after all. I haven't had any individual encounters with her so far, so I'm curious to see what her story is. Her strange mannerisms (not to mention her choice of dish) intrigue me. Plus from an indecisive protagonist's POV, the cowardly unusual option sounds like the safest bet.

As for the conflict between the two main girls, I'm leaning more towards Sumika. After failing to choose between her's and Meiya's lunches the first day, I've been consistently eating Sumika's meals thereafter simply because she puts effort into cooking them herself. Whereas Meiya simply flaunts her wealth around, as Dopple complained. I don't blame her for it though - she's obviously been spoiled, but her character's not that bad. I appreciate and enjoy watching her sincerity when trying new, ordinary things. I just wish she'd apply some of that earnestness towards wooing Takeru, instead of taking his approval for granted.

That said, I don't care as much for Sumika's personality. From her appearance I assumed she was the sweet, docile type - not a clingy loudmouth. But at least she gives her all to preserve her relationship with Takeru, so point goes to her.

My friend told me a bit about Madoka the other day, and now I'm curious to watch the show as well. I'm not really into the magical girl genre, but an original twisted spin on an old cute concept sounds right up my alley.

[Doppleganger]

Ohh, I'm motivated to write, but I have an exam tomorrow. Doshio?!? I'll start with Kaiji, study, then write of course!

Corsola, I should outline a bit about the framework for how Extra works to maximize your experience with the characters. I normally would not do this, but Extra is less linear than Unlimited and Alternative, so it's possible for the important character moments to get scrambled as one tries to dock onto a specific route. This isn't based on my experience or BBB's, but people who found themselves alienated by Alternative because of a certain gripe that wasn't hammered out in Extra. It doesn't look like it'll be a problem for you, but just in case, I'd say pick one girl and try to impress her with every possible option. In my own initial run, for example, I tried to focus on Meiya and only pay a little attention to Sumika, but ended up not getting enough Meiya points and defaulting to Sumika. So I was left in an odd case of me seeing more Meiya scenes than Sumika ones, but not picking Meiya.

This only applies to Sumika/Meiya though. Ayamine, Chizuru, and Tama all have their own fairly linear (once you dock) routes, but they're also highly specific, so you might want to use the text guide in your Muv-Luv folder so you'll dock without fanfare. I know two people who ended up getting the "boat" ending because they picked a bunch of errant options leading into the Sports Festival.

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

I just wish she'd apply some of that earnestness towards wooing Takeru, instead of taking his approval for granted.

I'm impressed you picked up on this. I didn't at first!

[lilboocorsola]

I know I should always try to pick one girl and stick with her, but I'm the type that's more interested in initially getting to know everyone and gathering as much information as I can that way. Now that I've at least had some one-on-one time with each character, I'll turn my focus more towards docking onto a specific path. Still, usually on a first playthrough I prefer to act on personal opinion and just see where those choices take me. I'm not a particular hurry to finish the game, so I'm not even aiming for an ending yet. I'll probably eventually play through all the routes anyway even though you said only some are required to advance, right?

[Doppleganger]

Right. It is painfully tough to get on some routes, though - only Sumika and Meiya are accessible past the Sports Festival. What did you think of the OP? Aside from, well, it lagging because of ruGP fail.

If you skipped it, you can see it here. I know Malcom accidentally passed it by, somehow.

[lilboocorsola]

The OP? I watched it, but I didn't think it was too memorable. Was there something I was supposed to notice?

Just finished Takeru's Birthday party...

Spoiler: show

So Takeru and Meiya share the same birthday, eh? I'm really tempted to think they're twins or something, especially given the revelation about Takeru's childhood memories. But then why would Meiya pursue a romance with him? Then again, twincest doesn't seem terribly uncommon in hentai...

Sumika has a Tanabata Birthday too? Bonus (random) cool point to her.

Now we're packing for the onsen. Oh what fun will unfold there?

[Doppleganger]

You're making surprising progress. I think you're going double speed of even BBB - it took him a week or so to get through Extra, I think. For me, a month.

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

The OP? I watched it, but I didn't think it was too memorable. Was there something I was supposed to notice?

It's not memorable at first. I remember forgetting it even as I played the game. But you'll notice over time that one theme appears over and over in the background music, and it's actually the OP theme. So when I saw the OP again, I instantly recognized the song, and it got me fired up.

Like Extra itself, the theme demands re-evaluation from time to time. Like, the translation of the lyrics is something to look at once you've finished Extra or Unlimited.

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

Just finished Takeru's Birthday party...

Spoiler: show

So Takeru and Meiya share the same birthday, eh? I'm really tempted to think they're twins or something, especially given the revelation about Takeru's childhood memories. But then why would Meiya pursue a romance with him? Then again, twincest doesn't seem terribly uncommon in hentai...

Sumika has a Tanabata Birthday too? Bonus (random) cool point to her.

Now we're packing for the onsen. Oh what fun will unfold there?

I knew Sumika was born in July, but I didn't connect it to Tanabata...in hindsight, that's an interesting connection to something that happens in Unlimited.

On the birthdays -

Spoiler: show

It's only an interesting coincidence, from what I've seen. Nothing more comes of it except Meiya treats it as "evidence" that she and Takeru should be together.

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

You're making surprising progress. I think you're going double speed of even BBB - it took him a week or so to get through Extra, I think. For me, a month.

Been pretty much marathoning all day. I'll slow down and take a break after I get through the first run.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

It's not memorable at first. I remember forgetting it even as I played the game. But you'll notice over time that one theme appears over and over in the background music, and it's actually the OP theme. So when I saw the OP again, I instantly recognized the song, and it got me fired up.

Indeed, I just noticed it playing in the background right after I re-watched the OP. XD

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

I knew Sumika was born in July, but I didn't connect it to Tanabata...in hindsight, that's an interesting connection to something that happens in Unlimited.

July 7th, same as me. ^^ Hee hee, I feel so special now. Can't wait to see how the date relates to Unlimited.

[Talon87]

Sumika dies in her nineteenth year on her birthday, July 7.

*cue classic Chiyo-chan gasp when Osaka says something outlandish*



I'm just kidding I've never even played the games or read any of the spoilers here. *necessary disclaimer to stave off Yuki having a heart attack*

[Doppleganger]

You've probably realized this, but you're now on the Sumika-Meiya path. So, the bulk of the development is about to happen, and the hot springs event is where it all begins.

Remember this scene though. This one is important, I think it's November 26.

Originally Posted by YUKI.N

July 7th, same as me. ^^ Hee hee, I feel so special now. Can't wait to see how the date relates to Unlimited.

Eh?! For real?

You're not just saying that because of your Yuki theme, right? o.o

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Eh?! For real?

You're not just saying that because of your Yuki theme, right? o.o

Nope, that's my real birthdate. I thought I mentioned it before when I went on a Tanabata rant. It's one of the reasons I feel personally connected to TMoHS, after all.

Last year when I turned 18 I even considered making some tanzaku (wish cards) to hang on the Japanese Maple in our yard (I actually used to make wishes on it with rolled up leaves ^^; ). I also bought some white chalk to try and recreate the symbols in BLR on my driveway. ...Didn't get around to doing either of those though. >>;

This year if I'm home for my B-day, I plan to try again and hopefully find a camera to take pics so I can show you guys. ^-~

[big bad birtha]

I finished another path in Symphonic Rain and have sampled some stuff. My thoughts on each.

Shugo Chara Party- Good god this is garbage. Most of this show is halfass live action skits and a completely uninteresting mini series about the mascots. Also, from what it seems, the little bit of anime they actually have in each episode is gonna focus only on two new characters instead of filling in blanks left from the previous season. What a disappointment.

Mari & Gali- This show is kinda weird. It's like taking Di Gi Charat and putting in a science lesson. Sadly, each episode is only 5 minutes long, so there isn't much to ingest. There's also a bunch of old men hitting on Marika the entire time. I guess it's understandable since Marika's freaking cute.

Symphonic Rain- I finished Falsietta's path. This path had a pretty twisted ending. I doubt anyone else is gonna play this, so I'm not gonna hold back on spoilers. During some of the last minutes of the path, you realize Falsietta was only getting near you to exploit your genius Fettuccine abilities so she can become professional. The main character eventually thinks that's somehow attractive and decided to stay with her. I mean, it doesn't compare to Madoka/Higurashi, but it's still unexpectedly dark for something so seemingly sweet. Hell, the last girl's father crushed her throat because he didn't want her singing.

In the current path I'm on, I already call it. Torte is in a competition with her twin sister over who'll get Chris. Torte learned singing for the sole purpose of getting close to him and following him in his musical path with it. I already call it!

I just don't like how incredibly short the paths are. I mean, it goes over the character you're going after well enough, but it just seems a little lacking. Also, I really like the ensembles with the characters, but I wish they had more than one song par path. The same song gets really repetitive, even if it's to represent your character practicing.

[lilboocorsola]

Landed on Sumika's Good End. I wasn't particularly aiming for one girl over the other, so no harsh feelings.

Spoiler: show

The answer to the whole promise bit was disappointingly predictable, and kinda reminded me of Love Hina. I guess this is part of what you meant by the overwhelming use of harem/moe tropes.

Now that I seem to have most of the answers for Extra, I'm gonna relax and just play around until I achieve all the side endings. I went back and tried to see if I could dock onto Ayamine's path, but somehow ended up on a tuna boat? XD I'll probably goof off as much as I can before finishing off Meiya's story, so I don't get sucked into the Unlimited/Alternative anticipation and forget all about completing Extra.

[Doppleganger]

So in the end, who did you like more - Sumika or Meiya?

...

Edit: Interesting find, member of the Japanese Diet Takahashi Souichi played Muv-Luv Alternative after his son introduced him to it and was really moved by it. Apparently, the man volunteered to help out survivors of the 1995 Kobe Earthquake and felt he could relate to a lot of the ideas and philosophy of Alternative.

[Talon87]

Some Blu-Ray and DVD sales figures, courtesy of this MyAnimeList thread.

Angel Beats! vol.1
Blu-ray 27,052 (DVD 13,390)

Bakemonogatari vol.01
Blu-ray 58,098 (DVD 23,234)

IS: Infinite Stratos vol.1
Blu-ray 27,064 (DVD 9,06

K-ON! vol.01
Blu-ray 42,625 (DVD 10,326)

K-ON!! vol.01
Blu-ray 38,452 (DVD 3,981)

Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica
Blu-ray 52,944 (DVD 9,097)

Ore no Imouto ga Konnani Kawaii Wake ga Nai
Blu-ray 21,911 (DVD 5,093)

A few interesting things to note:

1. While undoubtedly a major seller in the pantheon of anime, K-ON! seems to be less impressive when directly compared against juggernauts like Madoka or Bakemonogatari. In fact, sales of K-ON!! are even less impressive, suggesting that the love affair with the four-then-five high school girls has waned rather than waxed.
2. Bakemonogatari didn't just eke out Madoka. Compare their total disc sales: Madoka's 62,041 versus Bakemonogatari's 81,332. That's impressive. At roughly $50 a volume, that's $4,066,600 before taxes.
3. Despite all of the hubbub surrounding it, OreImo seems to be the pipsqueak of the bunch. That isn't to say that 27,004 in total disc sales is anything to sneeze at, but it's certainly no K-ON! which is certainly no Madoka which is certainly no Bakemonogatari ... and thus yeah, it's one of the runts of the group.