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Old 02-16-2013, 11:56 AM   #51
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Deliberately drawn to evoke the thought I felt the author committed to the path.

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Originally Posted by big bad birtha View Post
So Doppel, what'd you think about (Kud's route spoiler)
Spoiler: show
An obviously bad choice of sending Kud to her death being the "right choice"? Seriously that really rubbed me the wrong way.
This, I disagree with you on.

Spoiler: show
I felt it was natural to encourage Kud to chase after her mother, but then again I've been heavily indoctrinated by Muv-Luv Alternative so that kind of "letting someone fulfill duty, choose their fate" was something Kud had to do. The route suggested to me that Kud had bare interaction with her mother, so I was skeptical the bond would be that strong, especially since I was lead to believe the mother died, then she came back to write the letter only to get executed after Kud was captured/trapped (yeah, real smart!). Kud risking her life over a measly "yakusoku" she'd broken time and again was just disparaging to the audience.

What really irked me was the massive deus ex machina, and the stupid gear/sprocket thing. At least with Mio, her metaphor (the poem) was repeated over and over, since the beginning. Not introduced right toward the end.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:03 AM   #52
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Watched episode 19 of the anime. Not a bad episode. Though it seems they completely cut out the awful part of Kud's route. If it's bad for even JC Staff, then you know it's terrible. Though I could have sworn I saw a few shots from Kud's the awful part of Kud's route in a preview or something.

I was kind of disappointed they didn't do the muscle ending when they were studying with Masato (that's when it originally happens). I know JC feels the need to obnoxiously and mercilessly shove the phrase "KINYUKU!" down your throat, but it's still an awesome ending.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:33 AM   #53
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About to clear Haruka's Path.

Speculation:

Spoiler: show
Went to bed, but before I did, my idea was Kanata knows the folks in the house are Haruka's real parents, but forbid them from telling her, and Kanata is Saegusa Shou's real daughter. They all live happily ever after!
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:43 PM   #54
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Sweet, I beat it.

This route was really hard to get through, because it really hit stuff I don't like to read up...that said, Haruka's easily the most messed up KEY girl I've read about. It was really distressing and hard to muster through.

I thought Haruka's development was FAR superior to anyone else in this series. On the strength of her development, and Riki's stepped up maturity to match it, I'd give this route an 8/10, with any further numbers from implicit bonuses...

But there are no bonuses to be had, because everything else was just silly, incongruous or distressing. The family situation was the worst. Hearing stuff like that in the real world makes me want to kill myself. It's a crime against nature and society, and then the monstrously inhuman treatment and cultist rituals just horrified me.

I didn't like the ending. I thought it was fudged up and inconclusive. That ending could have been reached far earlier, without the temptation of spilling the mysteries which people didn't even know the answer to.

Beyond the good drama between Riki-Haruka, I felt that this route was one part Higurashi, one part Mawaru Penguindrum, and two parts The Maury Show. I'm glad to be through with it.

Now, onto the second to last, and most anticipated route thus far! The MUSCLE ROUTE!
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Old 03-17-2013, 02:59 AM   #55
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I've been making extremely slow progress in Kurugaya's Path, but I have a bit of speculation to throw out.

I think she's from a wealthy family, or at least has important parents, and was forced to do a lot of academic pursuits as a child. I don't think there was any abuse involved, though. There seems to be some conceptual over-lap between the characters in these stories, so I'm looking forward to seeing if this is the case for Kurugaya.
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:06 PM   #56
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So Kud's path in the animé is completed. Going back and reading your guys' comments, it seems like a lot of things were left out/unexplained.

Spoiler: show
Seems Kud's mother was kept alive, for the sake of a happy ending I presume. Though their whole relationship was pretty messed up.

I'm not sure about a "sprocket", but it was translated as "gear" in the subs I watched, which I suppose makes more sense? I don't remember where the object came from though, if it was even shown. And yeah, its sudden appearance at the end was kinda WTF... I couldn't understand that entire scene, or Kyousuke's words to her as she was trying to throw the box out. "Remembered everything?" How would he know her memories? Were both of those referencing Refrain or something? Oh, and what was that part about with Kud waking and recalling she was in "prison"? I was spoiled on the chain CG, so I thought that's where it'd be from... But then it turned out to be a future event rather than a flashback, so I was confused.


What really bugged me most though was...

Spoiler: show
Where was Mio when the Little Busters were saying goodbye to Kud last episode? =| I took note of it at the time but brushed it off. Her absence was made even more weird this time though since she took a central role in comforting the group and reminding them of all the good times they've shared with Kud... So it was very strange she didn't even accompany Kud to the car and bid farewell with the rest of the gang. Was that just an oversight on J.C.'s part?
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:45 AM   #57
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Saw this week's episode as well. JC changed alot of things, and overall, it is slightly better than Kud's route in the VN, but it's still meh. I'd say the anime part of Kud's route is a 4.5 while the VN is a 3.

Details in the magic spoiler box.
Spoiler: show

I don't think they said anything about whether or not Kud's mother survived in the VN. Honestly her surviving made no sense at all.

One good change is that originally, they knew that there were rebels who hated Kud's mother before she even left. That made them wanting her to leave just fucking retarded. It's like Riki was saying "Kud, I want you to die!". JC holding back the information until after she left was a good move.

We got a bunch of "Should Kud move or not?!" drama we originally didn't have. Originally it was just Riki telling Kud she should go. She got furious at him, which is the only understandable part of the route. Though it turned retarded when he calmed her down by sticking his tongue down her throat.

They hint at what's going on alot in the anime. It's kind of nice, since originally the only real hint you get is in Kurugaya's route, which I think the anime will just take out.

We get more focus on Kud in the foreign country. Originally it was Riki being all sad about Kud being gone. He even got a phone call from her as she was being captured.

For Mio, I guess JC just forgot to add her. Doppel might remember better, but I think just Riki saw her off.


When the hell is Kengo going to turn awesome? We're over 20 episodes in and haven't seen a damn thing from him.

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Old 03-18-2013, 12:59 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by big bad birtha View Post
Saw this week's episode as well. JC changed alot of things, and overall, it is slightly better than Kud's route in the VN, but it's still meh. I'd say the anime part of Kud's route is a 4.5 while the VN is a 3.

Details in the magic spoiler box.
Spoiler: show

I don't think they said anything about whether or not Kud's mother survived in the VN. Honestly her surviving made no sense at all.

One good change is that originally, they knew that there were rebels who hated Kud's mother before she even left. That made them wanting her to leave just fucking retarded. It's like Riki was saying "Kud, I want you to die!". JC holding back the information until after she left was a good move.

We got a bunch of "Should Kud move or not?!" drama we originally didn't have. Originally it was just Riki telling Kud she should go. She got furious at him, which is the only understandable part of the route. Though it turned retarded when he calmed her down by sticking his tongue down her throat.
Tbh, I actually read some of your guys' discussion prior to finishing the route in the series (since I was wondering just how it could become *that bad*), so my theory was that...

Spoiler: show
By "sending Kud to her death", you were actually referring to her mother. Given their relationship and the fact Kud was named after Laika, the first dog in space who died shortly after launch, I thought Kud's mother wanted to send her daughter on a suicide mission or something. Like Kud was really supposed to be the one on the rocket instead, and that's why she felt guilty.


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When the hell is Kengo going to turn awesome? We're over 20 episodes in and haven't seen a damn thing from him.
I was a little surprised/sad that he...

Spoiler: show
Just stood there by the tree looking all stoic when Kud came back. Wasn't he worried about her too? I mean, sure he may not be a member of the baseball team and so not spent as much time with her, but at least he could go welcome her with the others. =3=


Also I kinda figured that was the case with Mio, but it still bothered me. Maybe they'll fix it in the DVD release.
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:09 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbluecorsola View Post

Spoiler: show
By "sending Kud to her death", you were actually referring to her mother. Given their relationship and the fact Kud was named after Laika, the first dog in space who died shortly after launch, I thought Kud's mother wanted to send her daughter on a suicide mission or something. Like Kud was really supposed to be the one on the rocket instead, and that's why she felt guilty.

Where was this revealed?

Also, if I recall correctly,

Spoiler: show
Kud's mother was shot on TV in the Bad End of her route, where Riki tells her to not go to her home country. This causes her to faint, which leads to weird stuff.
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:17 AM   #60
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Where was this revealed?

Also, if I recall correctly,

Spoiler: show
Kud's mother was shot on TV in the Bad End of her route, where Riki tells her to not go to her home country. This causes her to faint, which leads to weird stuff.
I remember it was in the library, when Kud was reading a book in Russian(?) and telling Riki about her name.

Spoiler: show
The story never explicitly stated that the dog died, but I was pretty sure I learned that at some point (confirmed just now by looking it up on Wiki), so I thought it was kinda strange and sounded like foreshadowing.

What kind of weird stuff?
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:28 AM   #61
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In general, there's been a whole heck load of weird disjointed scenes in the VN when one stumbles onto a Bad End.

Spoiler: show
I've kind of backed out of most of them, but the routes in the game already take place in a "time-less" setting, but a sense of time is lost in the Bad Ends, so one loses track of how long things have passed.

In the Haruka Bad End, or at least one of them, Haruka's relationship with Riki aborts early and Riki finds Haruka, hair all messed up and flustered/crying, and she goes "you didn't recognize me, did you? Not surprised...you can't tell us apart." which leads to a tangential comment about her disliking night, or something.

In the Mio Bad End, Riki has sex with Midori and wakes up in the middle of the night in bed with her, and Midori goes "I did something terrible...she'll be returning soon, there was no way this could be permanent...you'll have to try harder next time, Riki-kun." I noticed that the world focus shrunk from the expanded Little Busters, to just the original Little Busters + Midori, to finally Riki + Midori and finally just Riki during this event.


All in all, things suggest that the strange has something to do with dreams, Riki's narcolepsy, and accumulated experience. I don't have the anime to grant me forward hints, though, so you'll have to keep an eye out for insight LBC.
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:56 AM   #62
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All in all, things suggest that the strange has something to do with dreams, Riki's narcolepsy, and accumulated experience. I don't have the anime to grant me forward hints, though, so you'll have to keep an eye out for insight LBC.
I do feel like the animé has been hinting at this with the "secret of the world" messages, relating to Riki's narcolepsy. And recently there were a whole bunch of weird disjointed scenes and words which, as BBB seems to indicate, were added to the route. I may need to go back and rewatch that part again, since it went by really fast.

There is one thing that I was mildly spoiled on by reading YT comments, which I think also shows up briefly in the VN opening...?

Spoiler: show
Apparently there is a girl named Saya, who was part of the original Little Busters? I believe she may possibly appear at 1:36 of the normal OP, and is shown clearly (holding a gun) at 0:33 and at 1:22 of the Ecstasy version. (I can translate the quote at 1:22, which says "Game Start".)
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:39 AM   #63
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You know I keep asking BBB about that character (I saw the name in your spoiler but read no more) but he maintains she doesn't exist in LB proper.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:35 AM   #64
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I think Saya was just tacked on in EX. I don't know any details about her, since EX isn't translated.

In the latest episode of LB, them they almost emphasized Kengo standing alone. I thought that might be foreshadowing that he might turn awesome soon. I was kind of annoyed that he didn't appear in the next episode preview.

EDIT: Holy fuck I worded the second part poorly.

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Old 03-23-2013, 05:13 AM   #65
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I guess I've finished Kurugaya's route?

BBB described it as a mess, but I see it as incomplete. My first thought finishing it was, "...". Quite literally, "that's it? What the fudge was that?"

It wasn't bad. In fact, the disparity between Kurugaya and Riki in terms of status gave me tons of anxiety pains trying to sit through Riki attempt to ask her out. It was so nauseatingly embarassing, I almost died a few times.

The route itself was something we've seen before - in more ways than one - but I think the GAINAX style ending left a pretty strong impact on me. Just because I have no idea where that thing fit into the puzzle.

Spoiler: show
Was it set in the present day, or the past? Kurugaya's dress seemed to suggest the past, and the piano Riki kept hearing was Kurugaya playing it in the 'real world'.

Riki expressed that it was a "shared dream", so I'm curious if everything we've seen thus far, with its out of control antics, are actually a dream of his and the Little Busters proper are still kids. Perhaps, Riki will wake up in the past and try to re-assemble the Little Busters so they can enjoy child-hood together and not just their final years of high school.

Another possibility is Riki has the ability to make futures he doesn't like into dreams. If he doesn't like it, he'll just fall asleep and wake up in the past, like opening a save option in a video game when things aren't going your way.

Rin's route ho. Here's hoping after Refrain, something nice happens when I hit Kurugaya's route again. I am definitely not satisfied


Oh yeah. The fact that we learned practically NOTHING about Kurugaya sucked eggs.
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Old 03-24-2013, 03:54 AM   #66
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I'm about to finish Rin's Path, I think. There's a big show-down but I'm sure I don't get what's going on!
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:36 PM   #67
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I've crushed Rin's Path.

I found it annoying, reaffirming the same point over and over. I learned nothing new from it and most of it was just empty antagonism. Maybe as a component I can understand it being as weak as it was.

Spoiler: show
I'm curious about the temporal alignment. This path suggests Rin has gotten stronger, but not Riki. But Riki improves in the battle rankings all the time and he's gone through the paths of the other girls. It's mucho strange.

Anyway, I proposed my theory to BBB. I'm pretty sure everything we've seen thus far is 1) a vision, or 2) a dream. All these routes feel too surreal, with the mini-game, the battle rankings, the comedic slapstick, and so on, and the closing curtain attitude. I think Riki might have the ability to make things he doesn't like into dreams, as he describes a "wall" he created when he was younger. So, I think the real Little Busters are still children right now, and Riki's going to try and rally all the other kids into the group in the past.
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:29 AM   #68
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Argh, I hate double posting, so there's nothing more irritating than double double posting! But I'm at the half-way point in Refrain I think...

Spoiler: show
Kengo's been mum about what's been going on, but given that he only had to reveal a small amount for me to figure things out, I can't say I favour the nature of the "phenomenon" since a little goes a long way.

It looks to me like everyone's in a time-loop, and when the date disappears the world goes on a collision course for repeating. I hate admitting such an un-original idea, but I might have to temper my wild-imagination when it comes to unique scenarios. The nature of the loop I don't know, but it appears to be shared sentiment about living the Little Busters days together so they'll never have to break up. Until Rin's Path, it didn't look like anyone really had much of a problem with doing this. Riki is held in the dark (although I suspect the others don't remember some stuff, like with Rin) so I do suspect he's the source of everything. The big mystery is how Kyosuke managed to get Riki out of his shell, if he did at all.

Kyosuke probably saw Rin's development over the various loops and took the opportunity to push her toward more independence, so the LBs wouldn't have to exist anymore (as, likely, it was a child-hood creation to preserve child-hood, but it's clear Rin though not Riki was growing up), but it backfired horribly with Rin being restrained by the police at the end of her route, traumatizing her.

To analyze the name of this arc, "Refrain", that's the chorus one usually sees in music. I.e., one revisits the chorus several times over the course of a song, despite going into different verses. Sometimes, it's slightly different and might lead to a different ending (the coda) once a certain bar is reached.

I think the characters who know what's going on: all the original Little Busters save Riki, and Kurugaya.


...

Update

Spoiler: show
Kyosuke's revealed that the fake world is indeed a dream of his, and what appears to be a dying dream a la Jacob's Ladder. It looks like there was an accident that the Little Busters got in, either here in the present or the distant past, and the inevitable result is everyone's going to die. If Riki and Rin were to see this, their PTSD from their child-hoods would re-emerge, so Kengo/Masato/Kyosuke (and the other LB's?) have teamed up to create a never-land where they can enjoy themselves eternally. Kind of like a heaven? Except their bodies are dying in the "real world" it seems.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:17 AM   #69
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In response to Doppel's review in my thread:

Huh, look at that, you scored it the same I did. Though my praises/annoyances are in different places. I didn't care for most of the character routes, while I loved the common route/Refrain. Hell even the mini-games in the common route were fun. Of course, I found the wacky humor to be really amusing. Though yeah, while Wonder Boy Jun Maeda can do some pretty good humor and emotional scenes, he does slap you in the face with the occasional sloppy writing (that Angel Beats ending....Guh).

Oh, what'd you think about damn walls moving scene? That was probably the funniest moment in the VN to me. Rin's scream, the sheer stupidity of it, and Rin's line at the end made it perfect. "I'm sorry. That's not my child!"

Speaking of this and KS, I played KS right after playing this. Sad thing is, despite being twice as long, LB took a week while KS took two. That shows you which I was more enthusiastic about reading. Though, yeah, playing KS after this killed alot of joy in it.

For anything else to respond with....I think I've already said to you through IM. You might enjoy Rewrite more, since it's something that can actually be compared to ML.

For the anime, this week's episode wasn't bad. It went over the puppet show Doppel mentioned in the review. I forget what the actual puppet show was like, so I can't really compare them. Next week...NEXT WEEK...god I hope JC doesn't fuck it up. I've been waiting for this moment for a while.

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Old 03-28-2013, 02:11 PM   #70
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Quote:
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Huh, look at that, you scored it the same I did. Though my praises/annoyances are in different places. I didn't care for most of the character routes, while I loved the common route/Refrain. Hell even the mini-games in the common route were fun. Of course, I found the wacky humor to be really amusing. Though yeah, while Wonder Boy Jun Maeda can do some pretty good humor and emotional scenes, he does slap you in the face with the occasional sloppy writing (that Angel Beats ending....Guh).
Actually(?), my rating might be a bit higher, because my median is at a 6. Anything in the 7+ range is above average, so I really try to regress ratings when I can. I just happened to place LB above Sharin and somewhere close, maybe slightly worse or better than ML, so it came out as a solid 8.

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Oh, what'd you think about damn walls moving scene? That was probably the funniest moment in the VN to me. Rin's scream, the sheer stupidity of it, and Rin's line at the end made it perfect. "I'm sorry. That's not my child!"
It didn't do much for me, mainly because I didn't really understand what was going on with the walls. Similarly, with the Masato rampage thing, which was supposed to be funny I presume, I found it a bit horrifying because I took it seriously.

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Originally Posted by big bad birtha View Post
Speaking of this and KS, I played KS right after playing this. Sad thing is, despite being twice as long, LB took a week while KS took two. That shows you which I was more enthusiastic about reading. Though, yeah, playing KS after this killed alot of joy in it.
I'm not going to play KS after this for sure, Rewrite is on the next list because I woke up and found myself already nostalgic for LB!
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:32 PM   #71
big bad birtha
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First off, dakimakura time!

I just watched the last episode of the Little Busters anime. The finale was 90% original content, but wasn't a bad finisher.

For the series itself, it was kinda lackluster. The humor, which was a strong point in the VN, was really killed by cheap animation. What really held this up for me was the great characters Little Busters has. Some of the dramatic moments weren't too bad, which I guess is a plus. Though some routes also had some important information just ignored, while other episodes were nothing but original content. I guess this deserves a 6.5. It's not a terrible adaptation, but by no means great either. I guess this is what happens when you take something great and make it mediocre?
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:41 PM   #72
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So, I still haven't even started this. Now that it's over, tell me this: does it leave itself open for a Rin path and a final path? Or (as you seem to suggest) does it do a made-for-TV ending that wraps everything up and doesn't leave things open for a second season? If it's the latter, I may just skip the anime altogether. If it's the former though, then I might check it out. *shrug*
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:52 PM   #73
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It leaves an open end. At the very end, it gives a preview to the "Refrain" anime.
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