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Old 09-03-2007, 07:21 PM   #1
eso
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4
please help eso!

i cant tear myself away from the first generation of pokemon, i dont like most of the pokemon past 151 so, my team is mostly first generation or originating from and i'm frusturated because i just cant win:

Ninetales
jolly
fire flash
-Hypnosis
-Confuse Ray
-Flamethrower
-dreameater
getting hypnosis from the hereditary move. confuse ray is annoying but chancy, i've lost a few battles wasting my time with it

Crobat
mild
Inner focus
hold: leftovers
-aerial ace
-confuse ray
-fly
-toxic
this is my absolute favorite, leftovers coupled with fly and that anoying confuse ray pump the thing with considerable hp, expecialy if the opponent is taking their time. rarely woks though

Gengar
adamant
levitate
-dream eater
-hypnosis
-destiny beyond
-shadowball
this one is disposable and uses destiny beyond more often than i like it to. the hypnosis-dreameater combo works well when hypnosis hits and then it gets really scary

Dragonite
modest
innerfocus
-thunderwave
-shockwave
-aerial ace
-dragon claw
i use it mostly as an electric pokemon

Torterra
rash
overgrow
-earthquake
-synthesis
-sunnyday
-solarbeam
this pokemon is so slow it makes me want to pull my hair out. but because its a grass-ground its usualy pretty decent. however since its so slow the synthesis-solarbeam-sunnyday combo doesnt have enough time to work in quick battles

Gyarados
naive
intimidate
-ice beam
-thunderbolt
-waterfall
-brine

i'm also a glutton for special effects, i'm not sure if thats a bad thing of a waste of time ?
i'm trying to look at different pokemon but i cant pull myself away from the origionals and its agrivating when i loose again and again. water-ice types are what really get me. please rip my team appart, any suggestions are welcome!
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Old 09-03-2007, 08:30 PM   #2
Loki
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Re: please help eso!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eso
i seam unable to tear myself away from the first generation of pokemon, any pokemon past the first 151 i call 'new' and dind unworthy. so, my team is mostly first generation or originating from and i'm frusturated because i just cant win:

Ninetales
jolly
fire flash
-Hypnosis
-Confuse Ray
-Flamethrower
-dreameater
getting hypnosis from the hereditary move. confuse ray is annoying but chancy, i've lost a few battles wasting my time with it
-------------------------------------------------------

Dream Eater is USELESS. In many, many way. It only works if your opponent is asleep and the moment someone knows you are going to eat dreams, they'll switch out their sleeping victim right away if they didn't already.

Ninetales serves as a decently UU (underused) Special Wall. Hypnosis and Will-O-Wisp are the most common moves used as they help in terms of team support. Another strong move is Energy Ball, as it scares off a decent number of Water, Rock, and Ground types, easily replacing the old Hidden Power Grass. The last move is usually Flamethrower or Fire Blast or possibly Overheat. A decent hold item is Wide Lens. It increases the accuracy of your moves by a factor of 1.1x, which turns Hypnosis to 77%, WoW to 82%, and Fire Blast to 93% while Overheat can be 99%. Your personality isn't the best. Jolly reduces SPATK and increases Speed. While Speed is nice, at the cost of SPATK is a bit painful. If you must use a Speed increasing nature, definitely use Timid, which reduces your ATK, which is useless on a Ninetales. Other good ones are Calm and Modest. Calm increases your SPDEF and reduces ATK, while Modest increases SPATK and reduces ATK.

Suggested:

Ninetales
|Flash Fire|Calm/Modest/Timid|Wide Lens/Leftovers|
-Will-O-Wisp
-Hypnosis
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower/Overheat
-Energy Ball

Sadly, it won't survive much in UU, but it is somewhat playable if you're smart about it. Good luck and have fun.

Quote:
Crobat
mild
Inner focus
hold: leftovers
-aerial ace
-confuse ray
-fly
-toxic
this is my absolute favorite, leftovers coupled with fly and that anoying confuse ray pump the thing with considerable hp, expecialy if the opponent is taking their time. rarely woks though
-------------------------------------------------------

Annoying Crobat doesn't work outside of the in-game. Toxic doesn't work against anything Steel or Poison and its very easy for a Metagross (or any attacker really) to switch in, take the Fly for low damage, and strike with something powerful or super effective.

Crobat's primarily useful for it's high speed, which isn't very remarkable anymore because of Choice Scarf. Anyway, Crobat's typing doesn't really give it much staying power, so many use it as a high speed hit and runner with Choice Band, but others like to play with Nasty Plot and Hypnosis.

Suggested:
Crobat
|Inner Focus|Adamant|Choice Band|
-Cross Poison
-Pursuit
-Aerial Ace/Brave Bird
-U-Turn

OR

Crobat
|Inner Focus|Modest|Life Orb|
-Nasty Plot
-Sludge Bomb
-Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball
-Air Slash/Hidden Power Fighting

The second set is more of a gimmick set, but I've seen people on Shoddy Battle win KO stuff with it purely because of the surprise factor.

Quote:
Gengar
adamant
levitate
-dream eater
-hypnosis
-destiny beyond
-shadowball
this one is disposable and uses destiny beyond more often than i like it to. the hypnosis-dreameater combo works well when hypnosis hits and then it gets really scary
-------------------------------------------------------

Adamant isn't Gengar's favorite nature. It increases its ATK at the cost of SPATK-which is its specialty. Again, Dream Eater is a fairly horrible move and Psychic type moves doesn't give Gengar any real coverage. Shadow Ball, Hypnosis, and Destiny Bond I have no problem with.

Suggest:
Gengar
|Levitate|Timid/Modest|Wide Lens/Choice Scarf|
-Hypnosis
-Shadow Ball
-Thunderbolt/Focus Blast
-Destiny Bond/Explosion/Will-O-Wisp

If you go with Hypnosis, Focus Blast and/or Will-O-Wisp, use Wide Lens for the much needed accuracy boost. If you run with Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt, it isn't as necessary and another item can be helpful. Destiny Bond and Explosion essentially have similar functions, but Explosion hurts Blissey and Snorlax much more then they would like to take while Destiny Bond will require that they KO Gengar, which isn't always an easy feat. Focus Blast with Shadow Ball gives you coverage of every type in the game, but sadly, Focus Blast's accuracy is horrid and I personally found Thunderbolt to be quite potent enough.

Quote:
Dragonite
modest
innerfocus
-thunderwave
-shockwave
-aerial ace
-dragon claw
i use it mostly as an electric pokemon
-------------------------------------------------------

Dragonite has much better functions then T-wave and Shockwaves. Also, being Modest greatly reduces its ability to hurt people with Aerial Ace and Dragon Claw, which are both ATK based physical moves.

Dragonite
|Inner Focus|Hasty|Leftovers|
-Substitute
-Focus Punch
-Flamethrower
-Dragon Pulse/Icebeam

OR

Dragonite
|Inner Focus|Jolly|Lum Berry/Leftovers|
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Fire Blast
-Earthquake

OR

Dragonite
|Inner Focus|Mild|Choice Specs|
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast
-Dragon Pulse
-Focus Punch

The first set is all SubPunch, which abuses Focus Punch's insane power with Substitute to not get hit while trying to Focus Punch. With an attack as powerful as Focus Punch in its arsenal, Blissey and Snorlax and many other SPDEF walls will not want to come out, in which case Flamethrower and Dragon Pulse wreak havoc.

The second set uses Dragon Dance for Sweeping. With one under the belt, Dragonite can outrace quite a few Pokemon and begin attack with the devastating Outrage, it's only advantage over Salamence of the same set. Lum Berry helps stop it from confusing itself and lets you keep Outraging your opponent.

The third set is for the trickster. Start by sending it out. Many expect a physical attack as Dragonite's physical stat is stronger. Then unleash a frightening Draco Meteor. It will easily KO anything not Steel or SPDEF heavy. Switch out and later, when you switch it in against something that won't like a Draco Meteor. Your opponent will send in their SPDEF Wall to take it. But instead, you can do Focus Punch and pound its face in, essentially giving you 2KOs from one guy. Not bad, but totally relies on surprise.

Quote:
Torterra
rash
overgrow
-earthquake
-synthesis
-sunnyday
-solarbeam
this pokemon is so slow it makes me want to pull my hair out. but because its a grass-ground its usualy pretty decent. however since its so slow the synthesis-solarbeam-sunnyday combo doesnt have enough time to work in quick battles
-------------------------------------------------------

Sunny Day and Solarbeam are only usable on Pokemon who have Chlorophyll. Otherwise the user is typically too slow to do anything threatening. Also, Torterra is heavily ATK oriented. Seed Bomb and Wood Hammer are much better then Solarbeam on it. Stone Edge or Rock Slide is sadly needed because it has no real way to deal with Flying types. It also can't take many special hits, especially ice ones, so Synthesis isn't necessary IMO. Leech Seed has some perks, such as giving you a slight heal while your opponent loses some HP. It also helps scare off most foes, as no one really wants to keep a seeded Pokemon out.

Suggest:

Torterra
|Overgrow|Impish/Adamant|Leftovers|
-Leech Seed
-Seed Bomb/Wood Hammer
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge/Rock Slide

OR

Torterra
|Overgrow|Adamant|Choice Band|
-Earthquake
-Seed Bomb/Wood Hammer
-Stone Edge/Rock Slide
-Crunch/Super Power

The first set is a tank. It can usually get one or two hits in before being forced out because someone with Ice Beam came in.

The second set is a CBer. It comes in, hits hard, then runs. Sadly, I think Seed Bomb and Super Powder are illegal together, so it's Seed Bomb and Crunch or Wood Hammer and Super Power or Crunch. Either way, Torterra can easily strike hard against almost anyone for decent damage using this set, but if you switch in poorly, you'll suffer.

Quote:
Gyarados
naive
intimidate
-ice beam
-thunderbolt
-waterfall
-brine


i'm trying to look at different pokemon but i cant pull myself away from the origionals and its agrivating when i loose again and again. water-ice types are what really get me. please rip my team appart, any suggestions are welcome!
-------------------------------------------------------

OH NO! SPECIALDOS! Gyarados' special attack is a horrid 60 (or 65). Special Attacks are horrible on it. Meanwhile, t's ATK is a whopping 125 base, so try to take advantage of that.

Gyarados
|Intimidate|Adamant|Leftovers/Life Orb|
-Dragon Dance
-Ice Fang/Taunt
-Waterfall
-Stone Edge/Earthquake

OR

Gyarados
|Intimidate|Adamant|Choice Band|
-Ice Fang
-Waterfall
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake

The first set is a sweeping set. Use Dragon Dance to get a good speed and ATK and just attack everything to death. Best used during the late game and usually needs a second DD to get REALLY good speed. Ice Fang is for Grass and Dragons while Taunt is for stopping your foes from (p)Hazing away your DDs away. Stone Edge is for other Gyarados while EQ provides better coverage with Ice Fang and Waterfall. Return is also an option though.

Meanwhile, the second Gyarados set says, "Why choose only 2 or 3 when I can choose all 4!" Similar to Torterra and Crobat holding a Choice Band, you send it in for quick hits and usually running afterwards. With all four attacks, you easily have cover all types and hit for decent damage.

As an overall team, despite my suggestions, don't use more then possibly 2 Choice items on your Pokemon. More than two and you'll have trouble with switching things around every turn, making it quite annoying.
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Old 09-04-2007, 06:50 PM   #3
eso
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4
Re: please help eso!

Thanks for the tips I REALLY needed them, I almost threw my game across the room
For ninetales: is 'underused' a bad thing? And is there any way that dreameater could work? Not that I’m attatched to it, but it seams like such a great move. I cant really say much else here because I’m a bit of an amature, you’ve helped alot though!
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Old 09-04-2007, 08:53 PM   #4
Loki
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Re: please help eso!

Dream Eater isn't even reliable on Pokemon like Darkai, who has a 100% accurate sleep afflicting move. Any Pokemon with Insomnia is immune and Pokemon with Sleep Talk and high SPDEF or resistance to Psychic won't care, as they still continue to pummel you.

Being UU or Underused merely means it's not standard tier material. Either it's typing is poor (which is the main case of Ninetales) or it's stats aren't good or something else along these lines. Usually there are Pokemon who can do the same job but much better for the reasons stated earlier: Their typing is better or their stats are nicer.
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:33 PM   #5
eso
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: please help eso!

i own a jolly dragonite so i might go with something along the lines of your second set, besides i dont really trust substitute and focus punch, i havnt used either much and theres no way to test it out because then i loose the tms

gyarados is now
earthquake
waterfall
icefang
thunderbolt

i dont know what to do with crobat, what does nasty plot do?
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:27 PM   #6
Loki
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Re: please help eso!

Unless you plan on surprising other Gyarados with Thunderbolt, it's pretty worthless. Gyarados' 65 (?) Base Special Attack amounts to very little damage against most Pokemon.

And you would need close to 200 SPATK EVs and hold a Life Orb in order to KO another Gyarados on average, which seriously hampers either Gyarados' defenses or his ability to do high damage physical attacks. Also, without decent ATK EV investment or at least Dragon Dance, Gyarados can't really compare to the other powerhouses like Metagross and Salamence and Tyranitar.

Nasty Plot gives you +2 Levels to Special Attack, which is basically doubles that stat.

Substitute & Focus Punch is an amazingly powerful and annoying combination. It was used heavily in Advanced Generation (RuSaEmFRLG) because of the popularity of Snorlax and Blissey, targets who blocked special attacks and were weak to Fighting. It also dealt insane amounts of damage to Pokemon like Skarmory despite it's high defenses as well as kept lots of guys a live despite their low speed.

Tyraniboah and McGengar are probably the most popular examples, but there are LOTs of Pokemon that abused the combo.
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