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Old 07-26-2011, 08:31 PM   #1
unownmew
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Misdreavus Haunting Team

I downloaded Pokemon online recently and have been tinkering around with building a team.
I'm a complete novice at competitive battling, so this is probably not a very good team, but I wanted to put it forth for improvement.

I wanted to make a mostly Ghost team (I'm aware I'm going to have serious issues with Dark Types, so methods of mitigating that would be appreciated), and I also had the idea of using all three of the "Room" moves to mess with my opponents. (Wonder Room, Magic Room, Trick Room)

Advice on moves, EVs, and alternate Pokemon is appreciated.



Lead: Gardevoir -Trace /Timid
Max SpcAtk and Spd
Light Screen
Reflect
Wish
Psychic

Gothitelle -Shadow Tag /Relaxed
300SpcDef/300Def/303HP/240SpcAtk
Magic Room
Trick Room
Psychic
Thunderbolt

Mismagius -Levitate /Timid
Max SpcAtk/330Spd/255SpcDef
Wonder Room
Will-o-Wisp
Toxic
Shadow Ball

Special Wall: Jellicent -Water Absorb /Sassy
401HP/max Spcdef/140Spd
Night Shade
Toxic
Recover
Will-O-Wisp

Physical Wall/Special Attacker: Chandelure -Flash Fire /Quiet
281HP/MaxDef(279)/405SpcAtk/176Spd
Heat Wave
Pain Split
Substitute
Energy Ball

Special Sweeper: Gengar -Levitate /Timid
Max SpcAtk and Spd
Focus Blast
Shadow Ball
Thunderbolt
Will-O-Wisp
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Old 07-26-2011, 11:34 PM   #2
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Gardevoir as a lead is heavily outclassed by many others in the Reflect/Light Screen function. Uxie has higher defenses and has the added versatility of Yawn as pseudo-haze. Another option is also Bronzong who has the added bonus of being part Steel type, which dodges a lot of weaknesses compared to just Psychic typing. Both of those options also have Stealth Rock, which is an excellent leading move in the right situations.

I don't know anything about Gothitelle but the fact that it is your only Pokemon using Trick Room makes it less stellar than you might expect. If you set up Trick Room and the rest of your team is fast, it essentially nerfs your team until it wears off. Either you make a team that uses Trick Room or you don't. Randomly slipping in Trick Room doesn't help. Also, don't know what Magic Room is.

Mismagius and Jellicent are slightly redundant in your builds. Both have both Will-O-Wisp and Toxic, which is fairly wasteful since if an opponent is afflicted with one, they cannot be afflicted with the other. Will-O-Wisp is generally considered more useful in the situation where you weaken an opponent's attack in addition to minor burn damage, but Toxic is deadlier due to increasing damage. Both can become a liability when Guts is involved though.

Don't know what Wonder Room is either :x Sorry I haven't played Pokemon in a while so the new generation stuff is a bit alien to me.

In general, Mismagius is typically outclassed by Jellicent or Gengar except in a few niche uses like PerishTrapping.

Jellicent has better stats for defensive usage and Recover. Night Shade isn't my favorite move due to it's generally low damage as even the average sweeper can easily survive around 3 hits of 100 damage or sends in a normal type laugh at the nothing damage. Scald is a possible option as it does water damage and has a decent chance to burn. Most Flash Fire Pokemon who would take advantage of Will-O-Wisp would just be hit with a super effective STAB move instead. Don't remember what other moves it learns :x

Not sure about Chandelure being a physical wall due to the average 80 base defense, it's typing, and complete lack of healing, it really can't endure a lot. Fire typing gives it weakness to Ground, Water, and Rock, which are all very common in physical attackers. Also, Heat Wave should never be used over Flamethrower except in very few situations where you are specifically trying to get a higher damage average for killing certain counters. i.e. if Heat Wave can kill a Lucario while Flamethrower can't. These require a lot of damage calculation, but Flamethrower's accuracy will typically be more useful. And in situations where you're looking to hit harder, Overheat or Fireblast is probably just as good.

Gengar is a good Special Sweeper, so Will-O-Wisp is a fairly useless move as Gengar should be dishing out maximum damage, not minor ailments. Since you're playing on PO, you may as well give it Hidden Power Fire. Another option if to hold Choice Scarf/Specs and use Trick. This allows Gengar to be super fast (which Scarf) or more powerful (with Specs) and if you know a wall is coming to block, you can cripple it with a Tricked choice item.

Ghost options are fairly plentiful in Gen5. The addition of the Golurk makes an excellent physical attacker and Dusknoir, Spiritomb, or Cofagrigus are fairly useful as physical walls. Froslass is also a useful suicide lead with Spikes and Destiny Bond.
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:12 AM   #3
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>Don't know what Wonder Room is either :x Sorry I haven't played Pokemon in a while so the new generation stuff is a bit alien to me.

Wonder Room is basically Embargo for everyone, and kinda niche unless you have a big problem with Choice Items and don't mind getting rid of your own.

EDIT: My bad that's Magic Room. Wonder Room swaps Def and Sp.D. It's an interesting tactic but not really viable long-term unless you expect to face a lot of Special Walls. Kind of a waste of a slot, IMO, but since you don't really have a physical attacker, it's not a terrible choice.

>Chandelure Physical Wall

Chandelure is a really poor choice as Physical Wall. It's a waaaaaay better Sp.Att Sweeper. You might get a few surprises on a Wall Chandelure but you're not going to be able to pull off much without staying power. Cofi and even Golurk do a lot better at that.

Last edited by Jerichi; 07-27-2011 at 03:19 AM.
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:11 AM   #4
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While I forgot to mention it in the first post, my intended plan is disruption and surprises.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor Jesus View Post
Gardevoir as a lead is heavily outclassed by many others in the Reflect/Light Screen function. Uxie has higher defenses and has the added versatility of Yawn as pseudo-haze. Another option is also Bronzong who has the added bonus of being part Steel type, which dodges a lot of weaknesses compared to just Psychic typing. Both of those options also have Stealth Rock, which is an excellent leading move in the right situations.
I'm, unfortunately, painfully aware that Gardevoir is outclassed, however it is my favorite pokemon, and I'll be darned if I can't come up with a good use for her. It doesn't matter what use, as long as she has one, and I figured dual screens would be most helpful for my ghosts.

Quote:
I don't know anything about Gothitelle but the fact that it is your only Pokemon using Trick Room makes it less stellar than you might expect. If you set up Trick Room and the rest of your team is fast, it essentially nerfs your team until it wears off. Either you make a team that uses Trick Room or you don't. Randomly slipping in Trick Room doesn't help. Also, don't know what Magic Room is.
Gothitelle is a pure psychic type, and I was wondering if I should have had another pokemon with Trick Room, but it seemed to be less important then some of the other things I had.

I also mentioned the speeds of my slowed down pokemon in the first post, pretty much my team is half speed and half slow. I figured Gardevoir needed speed for putting up screens, and would still be outsped by most other pokemon I faced which would win with trick room. Mismagius and Gengar were good sweepers, and I didn't expect Trick Room to be up all the time. The others are all slowed down.


Quote:
Mismagius and Jellicent are slightly redundant in your builds. Both have both Will-O-Wisp and Toxic, which is fairly wasteful since if an opponent is afflicted with one, they cannot be afflicted with the other. Will-O-Wisp is generally considered more useful in the situation where you weaken an opponent's attack in addition to minor burn damage, but Toxic is deadlier due to increasing damage. Both can become a liability when Guts is involved though.
I figured having Will-o-wisp would help against physical attackers and steel types, while Toxic hit everything else. Particularlly for Jellicent since Normals would be immune to Night Shade. I wasn't expecting to have statused all my opponents pokemon by the time I switched from one to another, so I put them on both (It'd also surprise the opponent switching in a healthy pokemon after one of the two is switched out. If you say it's better to just have one, I'll do that instead.

Quote:
Don't know what Wonder Room is either :x Sorry I haven't played Pokemon in a while so the new generation stuff is a bit alien to me.

In general, Mismagius is typically outclassed by Jellicent or Gengar except in a few niche uses like PerishTrapping.
Wonder Room: Swaps SpcDef and Def stats of pokemon on the field for 5 turns.
Magic Room prevents effects of items given to pokemon on the field for 5 turns

I was seriously considering using PerishTrap Mismagius, but thought the other one was better. If you say it is, I'll probably change it to that instead.

Quote:
Jellicent has better stats for defensive usage and Recover. Night Shade isn't my favorite move due to it's generally low damage as even the average sweeper can easily survive around 3 hits of 100 damage or sends in a normal type laugh at the nothing damage. Scald is a possible option as it does water damage and has a decent chance to burn. Most Flash Fire Pokemon who would take advantage of Will-O-Wisp would just be hit with a super effective STAB move instead. Don't remember what other moves it learns :x
well, I figured Consistent damage was best, though I considered Surf and Scald. But if you say Scald is better I'll use it.
I had Will-O-Wisp to cover Physical attackers due to it's low defenses, and Toxic to cover Fire and special attackers and Normals who ever immune to Night Shade.
With Wonder Room Active, (and especially against burned pokemon, I can turn it into a physical wall too.


Quote:
Not sure about Chandelure being a physical wall due to the average 80 base defense, it's typing, and complete lack of healing, it really can't endure a lot. Fire typing gives it weakness to Ground, Water, and Rock, which are all very common in physical attackers. Also, Heat Wave should never be used over Flamethrower except in very few situations where you are specifically trying to get a higher damage average for killing certain counters. i.e. if Heat Wave can kill a Lucario while Flamethrower can't. These require a lot of damage calculation, but Flamethrower's accuracy will typically be more useful. And in situations where you're looking to hit harder, Overheat or Fireblast is probably just as good.
Well, I just looked at the base 100 stats and found them higher then most of the other pokemon in my team, so I decided to buff the defenses up and use it as a partial wall, in tadem with burned pokemon.
With Wonder Room active, I can swap the Physical Walling onto Jellicent, which can then proceed to take care of those listed threats. (I didn't think that far ahead till just now though ^^; ) And wasn't thinking about the most common physical threats at the time.

I'll change to Flamethrower then.


Quote:
Gengar is a good Special Sweeper, so Will-O-Wisp is a fairly useless move as Gengar should be dishing out maximum damage, not minor ailments. Since you're playing on PO, you may as well give it Hidden Power Fire. Another option if to hold Choice Scarf/Specs and use Trick. This allows Gengar to be super fast (which Scarf) or more powerful (with Specs) and if you know a wall is coming to block, you can cripple it with a Tricked choice item.
Well, I never found myself fond of the Choice items, and read that HP Fire required an imperfect Speed, and I didn't want to give Gengar's stellar speed up to another Gengar, so I improvised. I also do not know how well Choice scarf would work for outspeeding threats with the imperfect speed. If I'm convinced to, I'll swap Will-o-Wisp to trick.



Quote:
Ghost options are fairly plentiful in Gen5. The addition of the Golurk makes an excellent physical attacker and Dusknoir, Spiritomb, or Cofagrigus are fairly useful as physical walls. Froslass is also a useful suicide lead with Spikes and Destiny Bond.
Golurk? I wasn't aware of that pokemon. I'll look into the physical walls, but don't want to give up much of my team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post

>Chandelure Physical Wall

Chandelure is a really poor choice as Physical Wall. It's a waaaaaay better Sp.Att Sweeper. You might get a few surprises on a Wall Chandelure but you're not going to be able to pull off much without staying power. Cofi and even Golurk do a lot better at that.
I noticed it had stellar SpcAtk, even better then Gengar not even maxed, but it seemed to have less type coverage. Since I knew Gengar with it's spc atk was a great sweeper, I figured I wouldn't have to max it on Chandelure to get the same effect, so I could use the excess elsewhere, such as buffing defenses. I didn't have any Def on my team so I decided to choose that stat. I never intended it to be a purely specialized physical wall.
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:44 AM   #5
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If you insist on using Gardevoir, I would encourage you to retool the team around the UU environment and to play in UU matches instead of OU ones.

The Pro: you not only get to use your beloved Gardevoir but you get to use her well

The Con: a number of the Pokémon on your current line-up are OU and thus not allowed in UU teams

That's kind of the situation with Gardevoir: she either sputters in OU or else she soars in UU and you have to decide which matters more to you, playing in the OU environment or playing in an environment where Gardevoir can be considered a solid team member.


Since you've signed up for a Pokemon-Online account and since you say you've little to no competitive battling experience, my advice is what I think would be obvious: play-test things out. No better way to learn what does and doesn't work for you than to play.

I haven't been on Pokemon-Online in a long while, but if you'd like to play with people, let us know. Several people here have P-O accounts.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
If you insist on using Gardevoir, I would encourage you to retool the team around the UU environment and to play in UU matches instead of OU ones.

The Pro: you not only get to use your beloved Gardevoir but you get to use her well

The Con: a number of the Pokémon on your current line-up are OU and thus not allowed in UU teams

That's kind of the situation with Gardevoir: she either sputters in OU or else she soars in UU and you have to decide which matters more to you, playing in the OU environment or playing in an environment where Gardevoir can be considered a solid team member.
I considered that question hard, unfortunately, there are a number of other pokemon I like which are restricted to OU, and while UU Pokemon are "subpar", they are not forbidden from OU, like OU are from UU.

What's most important to me: using all the pokemon I like on various teams.


Quote:
Since you've signed up for a Pokemon-Online account and since you say you've little to no competitive battling experience, my advice is what I think would be obvious: play-test things out. No better way to learn what does and doesn't work for you than to play.

I haven't been on Pokemon-Online in a long while, but if you'd like to play with people, let us know. Several people here have P-O accounts.
Er, I don't think I've signed up for an account yet, I've just downloaded the client program and have been tinkering with the team builder, I haven't gone online yet.
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Old 07-28-2011, 01:19 PM   #7
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The probably best setup for Gardevoir is as a status infliction. She has access to Hypnosis, Will-O-Wisp, and Thunderwave- although I would only use at most two of them. Wish is probably a good option on a team lacking healing moves and Reflect probably helps since you lack a real physical wall at the moment.

The problem unfortunately for Gardevoir is the lack of powerful attacks and her many counters including most dark types, which is your team's major weakness. Hypnosis is her only real answer and it's 60% accuracy can be very unreliable. Hell, my 75% accurate Sleep Powders fail me more often than not as Talon87 and Stlbk have witnessed.

As a disruption team, I would really avoid Toxic as it is far too slow in the current metagame where most sweepers can easily do massive damage in a single attack.

And while you say you Trick Room is to help speed up your Pokemon, you have three Pokemon who would be capable of using it, but those three aren't deadly threats to your opponent (okay maybe Chandelure is). Trick Room helps slow powerful Pokemon like Snorlax become fast and powerful enough to KO a few Pokemon. Using it with half your team being at least decently speedy just won't work out well.

As for HP Fire Gengar, while it gives you imperfect Speed and means you lose in mirror matches, you should know this and instead counter an enemy Gengar with a wall or some other Gengar counter. Unfortunately, in a full Ghost team, that probably won't work out as easily. But as is, the Fire type damage can greatly help against targets like Ferrothorn and Scizor while also doing slightly better than Focus Blast against Metagross, all of which can hamper Gengar's ability to sweep.

Mismagius as a Perishtrapper is not as a simple strategy. While Calm Mind sweeping is possible, Mismagius is greatly outclassed by Gengar. So using both becomes redundant. As for Wonder Room as a possible defense tactic, it's very unlikely to work. Firstly Mismagius is very frail in HP and the first turn of putting up Wonder Room is a liability. And once the Wonder Room is up, your opponent can simply switch to a Special sweeper to take down Mismagius. Thus a lack of a real physical wall will always be a problem.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:50 PM   #8
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I appreciate your assessment of my team. You've pretty much convinced me I need to change several things. Though, as I'm a complete novice at this, I'd also appreciate some recommendations on what TO do, besides just what NOT to do.

So far my thoughts are turning Chandelure into my sp. sweeper, taking advantage of Trick Room. I want to use as many Ghost types as possible, with Gardevoir and Gothitelle if at all possible, but it's clear I need a physical wall (I'm thinking about using Dusknoir for that), and a way to counter darks. I also want to focus on disruption, but I don't really know what that entails.

I also want the physical looks of the pokemon to have a ghostly theme, (even if it's a bit of a stretch).
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