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Old 06-17-2013, 06:54 AM   #51
Mercutio
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Yeah I like playing as Bowser, in no small part because I like his meaty roar taunt. I usually lose though because I always want to KO using his side smash. Predictable.
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:27 AM   #52
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Sounds like a good idea, though it brings up something I didn't think of before- Will the Wii U and 3DS versions be able to play against eachother? And, if miraculously they can, I'd take it that they can only use shared stages?
No, they won't be able to play against each other, but there will be some as-of-yet-unannounced interaction between them.

The Wii U and 3DS versions will have some different stages as well. I think the characters were confirmed to be the same in both games.

My guess is that the interaction of the games unlocks characters or extra stages.
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Old 06-17-2013, 04:20 PM   #53
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>new!Bowser

I think it's a really positive sign; it seems that Sakurai is finally taking note of the massive balance issues in his game and fixing a lot of the key problems that plague characters like Bowser; a lot of power but no speed to use it with. Everything in the trailers is looking to be very fast and fluid, more like how Melee plays (especially WFT boy is she fast). Brawl is really sort of a cluster and reflects some of the rush that was put into characters and I'm hoping this one will be a bit more polished than Brawl was.
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Old 06-17-2013, 04:51 PM   #54
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There's one video where they discuss Megaman in more detail and they talk about his up and down smashes, and they slow down the video and point out how Megaman has to vent his arm cannons out after using those moves and it takes up a bit of time. Knowing that the developers are taking note of minute but vital details like the frames of lag that venting the cannons takes up tells us that they're really paying attention to balance and competitiveness.
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:05 PM   #55
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Yeah, I was impressed by that. I didn't expect frame-by-frame and concentration on the fine details.
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Old 06-19-2013, 05:58 PM   #56
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Guys, you've missed the most important thing. Tripping confirmed to be removed.

And something about the game speed being between Brawl and Melee but w/e TRIPPING REMOVED THANK YOU GOD
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:26 PM   #57
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I know, I'm incredibly excited. Tripping was what killed the competitive side of SSB - this is huge news for any fans of MLG or the like, or playing in tournaments.

I can't wait for Smash Bros tournaments to make a comeback now. I used to go to those all the time.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:09 PM   #58
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Ehhh... MLG dropped their fighting tournament scene. They said it wasn't profitable in 2012 (which was the year of crazy eSports). Evo is a more likely tournament to see Brawl.

Tripping was lame. I remember randomly tripping on the moving arenas and dying cause I didn't get up in time.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:27 PM   #59
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The interview in the article has me even more excited; I think Sakurai has finally sort of realized the implications of his actions, so he's striving to make a more balanced and competitive game. I really want to see a Smash where tiers don't exist.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:37 PM   #60
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I really want to see a Smash where tiers don't exist.
Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood luck! That is sort of the Holy Grail of fighters, in particular those with rosters greater than eight unique characters. I very much doubt that Sakurai is the man for that job or that Super Smash Bros. 4 is going to be that game, particularly when its fans are clamoring for as many characters to be included as possible. With a franchise like Smash Bros., you're effectively caught between a rock and a hard place, the rock being avoiding character clones / palette swaps and the hard place being what you just asked for. The more unique characters you make, the less able you are to avoid the emergence of tiers because, quite simply, some characters' builds and arsenals work better than others'. The fewer unique characters you make, the easier it is to grant Jerichi his tier-free wish but the more you start to either a) piss off all of the people who hate palette swaps, assuming you went that route, or else b) piss off all of the people who hate tiny rosters, assuming you went that route.

Wow, I just realized that I can sum this entire argument up super-succinctly:

Large roster. Every character is unique. No tiers. Pick two.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:48 PM   #61
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Ehhh... MLG dropped their fighting tournament scene. They said it wasn't profitable in 2012 (which was the year of crazy eSports). Evo is a more likely tournament to see Brawl.

Tripping was lame. I remember randomly tripping on the moving arenas and dying cause I didn't get up in time.
Meh, MLG, EVO, whatever, same thing.


>A smash where tiers don't exist


That would be nearly impossible. Everyone is balanced and unique in their own way, shape, and form that there the only way to guarantee no tiers would basically be giving everyone similar movesets in terms of damage and/or ability and reskinning them. Tiers are determined by good kits, combos, and mobility. I see where you're coming from, but it would be almost impossible to have any fighting game without some sort of defined tier. I do sympathize though and would love to see at the very least people not completely dismissing "low tier" characters because they're "not viable" or "weak" - I hope the next Smash is balanced enough that "low tier" characters are decent enough to play against "top tier" characters and have a fighting chance (aka not Bowser vs. Fox or Peach vs. Metaknight)

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Old 06-19-2013, 07:55 PM   #62
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> Large roster. Every character is unique. No tiers. Pick two.

Oh I'm aware it's a wild fantasy. But any step we can take towards a Smash that isn't like Brawl with it's ridiculous stratification between tiers is a positive change. I feel like at the very least, we're heading towards a game where, like deo said, we have lower tiers that still stand a fighting chance against top tier characters. Obviously, you're never going to have a perfectly balanced fighting game, but anything that's more balanced than the shitshow that is the Brawl Tier List is welcome.
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:09 PM   #63
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Yeah we definitely want to move back to a less stratified tier list, but meh, I've never much cared. I suck as Metaknight and today on online play I was winning 3/4 of my matches using Bowser.
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:13 PM   #64
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I don't play SSB competitively, but I really do love Bowser's SMB3 butt crunch move. That and his fire breath are probably my two most spammed attacks with him.
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:18 PM   #65
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Yeah the fire breath was most useful for me today. I prefer his ridiculous headbutt side smash to the butt crunch. Though I did score a double KO with Bowser Bomb today.
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Old 06-22-2013, 04:14 AM   #66
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Does this mean Ganon might be useful?

I'm cool with this.
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Old 07-01-2013, 06:38 AM   #67
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How do people go about practicing on SSBB? I suck something fierce nowadays but I've found that playing against a single level one opponent on a 10 minute match is great for getting back in to it because you can easily get back a sense of timing and attack comboing. So now I'm capable of chaining knockbacks with meteor smashes where before I was too slow, for example.
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:08 PM   #68
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Villager's final smash should be Kapp'n and the train showing up and steamrolling everyone off the stage.

Or Rover showing up and talking the players to death.

If it is ANYTHING but Bees! I will not ever play him for I will be too busy crying.

Looks good so far.
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Old 07-01-2013, 04:32 PM   #69
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How do people go about practicing on SSBB? I suck something fierce nowadays but I've found that playing against a single level one opponent on a 10 minute match is great for getting back in to it because you can easily get back a sense of timing and attack comboing. So now I'm capable of chaining knockbacks with meteor smashes where before I was too slow, for example.
Level 8s are supposedly the best for practice; level 9s can do frame-perfect attacks that humans can't perform. Level 8s have the same AI but aren't able to spam the impossible dodges and counters that 9s can.
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Old 07-01-2013, 04:37 PM   #70
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Interesting. When I played Melee all the time I used to eat three teamed level 9s for breakfast at once, but now on Brawl I have trouble taking on one and winning by more than one or two. Maybe 8s are the way to go.
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:19 AM   #71
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The thing is, it depends on what game mode you play. Timed killfest 8's are the best for training for obvious reasons, if you go and try stock, though, you have to bump it down to 6's, because anything above that will not fight if they can at all avoid it, since all they're focused on is keeping themselves alive and not all too worried about killing.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:12 PM   #72
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Level 3's- if only to practice combos and tricks/tech. High level computers are not great to play because they give you bad habits that your friends/competitors can exploit. playing random online matches is better than playing unrealistic Lv.9's. Playing friends online is better than that, and finally playing people offline is the best way to get better.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:47 PM   #73
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Random online battles also have a glaring disadvantage because it's a poor simulation of local battles. Getting used to lag is a bad thing when you are fighting in the fast-paced frame-perfect realm of competitive Smash.
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:48 AM   #74
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Random online battles also have a glaring disadvantage because it's a poor simulation of local battles. Getting used to lag is a bad thing when you are fighting in the fast-paced frame-perfect realm of competitive Smash.
it still helps some if you practice things offline. Many of the top players in today's competitive brawl originally used Wifi to practice matchups and playing against other people. You are right that random battles are kind of useless, but finding people to play 1 v 1's is better. That's how i got a lot better at Brawl is by playing people online in 1 v 1's. Granted I want to try and get more competitive. Also the lag doesn't really affect gameplay if you play people with good connections who are close to you. I know people that i've played that even with the lag being around it was as close to offline/no lag as possible.
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Old 07-06-2013, 04:25 AM   #75
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Yeah my problem is that I laugh at level 9 CPUs but against a real person who's halfway decent at the game I usually don't stand a chance. I've played Brawl a few times with some Smogon buds and I get destroyed every time. Granted I don't practice as much as most of them but still.
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