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Old 07-14-2019, 12:06 PM   #101
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That first point falls kinda flat, it's pretty well documented that there were issues with the 3ds models when they were brought over to Switch and so most of them had to be redone from scratch.
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Old 07-14-2019, 01:05 PM   #102
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That first point falls kinda flat, it's pretty well documented that there were issues with the 3ds models when they were brought over to Switch and so most of them had to be redone from scratch.
This was a mistranslated quote. All of the models are exactly the same from XY, just like LGPE.
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Old 07-14-2019, 01:14 PM   #103
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The issue is they announced that going forward, there will always be cut Pokemon from each game. And the justification for doing so are the animations. Which are the same from XY all those years ago.
Well, that's the explanation, but it's obviously not true. We only have to look at the transition from BW2 to XY, GF can absolutely adapt 600+ existing models if they made 600+ over a six year development period.

Masuda is lying and just gave a bad excuse. It's not laziness either. It's in GameFreak's interest to have a dex rotation like literally every other anime based media: it's better for balance and better for VGC, and also allows them to award new powerups to the same super popular Pokemon.

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You are correct. The issue here is that basically almost every fan considered LGPE to be a side game, but Game Freak saw it as a core game. And if no one complained about a cut dex core game on the switch before, why would they complain now?

Unfortunately, this falls on gamefreak for being so incomprehensibly lazy. They had an opportunity to, in LGPE, make at least SOME new attack animations for their reduced roster. That would have allowed them to put in Pikachu, and Charizard, and whoever in Sword/Shield with some animations already done.

Instead, GF is turning into the new EA. I can't wait for Pokemon 2020 next year, I wonder who will be on that roster.
It was basically America that ruined everything. LGPE sank like a stone in Japan, even with Japan's robust GO population.

Nintendo is super super salty that most of the profit from GO is going to Niantic instead of them, which is why we are getting Masters which is a Nintendo-controlled project (they own DeNA). Unfortunately, Nintendo only knows how to litigate and is too closed-minded to innovate when it comes to Pokemon. Their ultra conservative approach to all games since XY are proof of this.
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Old 07-14-2019, 09:18 PM   #104
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Alright, I'm gonna be brutally honest here- we all should've seen Dexit coming at some point. We're gonna be pushing 900 Pokémon here, if not somewhere in the quadruple digits. Hell, I'm pretty sure they already confirmed that counting form differences, the number actually is gonna hit quadruple digits as of SwSh. It's a lot of Pokémon, and they don't have all the time in the world to make sure everything gets added smoothly. Even assuming they can reuse the old models (because at this point, I don't know what's the truth, what's a mistranslation, and what's just plain not known about this at this point), there's still new animations to do (which we have seen with some Pokémon in the trailers- Dynamax Weavile at the start of its Max Raid Battle is a good example, that animation for it doesn't exist in Gen 7), however many new Pokémon, potential new models for Dynamax forms (depending on whether simply scaling up the existing models actually looks any good), untold Gigantamax models, attack animations for all the new moves including Max Moves and G-Max Moves, and probably a buttload of stuff I ain't even started to touch upon here.

Could they delay the games? With everything that ties into them? The anime? The TCG? Countless instances of merchandise? Hell, no! To add to that, GameFreak doesn't have unlimited resources at their disposal, either. 143 employees, I believe, and not all of them are even working on SwSh. And of the ones that are, you get the feeling that moving from sprites to 3D models wasn't a good move for them. Probably something Nintendo pushed them into for the sake of selling the 3DS, if I had to guess.

My point is, the way things are going, with more and more new Pokémon getting piled on, with yearly releases becoming a regular thing, this had to happen at some point. Hell, I get the feeling we were lucky it didn't start with Sun and Moon- suddenly the Rotom Dex's lack of a National Dex upgrade starts to make a little more sense.

Am I happy about Dexit? No. I love transferring in all the Pokémon I've trained up and bonded with, all the Shinies I've collected over the years, all that good stuff, and it saddens me to think that I'll only get to bring some of those over to Galar.

BUT

I'm still hyped for these games. You can crap on the graphics all you want, with the little minor nitpicks such as Charizard shooting flames from its shoulder, or *insert Scorbunny Double Kick gif here*, but by and large, these are still the best-looking main series Pokémon games we've ever gotten, and the graphics have been steadily getting better as you can tell by looking very carefully at the trailers. Arceus only knows how much more they'll have improved by the release date. Much as Dexit bugs me, these are still awesome-looking games introducing incredible new Pokémon and very cool new characters, and I for one can't wait to get to finally play them.

The team thus far, for anyone wondering, is looking as follows;
~Scorbunny
~Either Drednaw or Seismitoad
~Vanilluxe
~Impidimp
~Rolycoly

The Water-type is subject to change based on whether we get any Water-types that appeal to me even more than Drednaw or Seismitoad. But besides that, this is how it's looking thus far.
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:06 PM   #105
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Quote:
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This was a mistranslated quote. All of the models are exactly the same from XY, just like LGPE.
Yes, not knowing a language and using an online translator is well

a perfect argument
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Old 07-15-2019, 02:41 AM   #106
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So, the running theory is that GameFreak does have unlimited resources, but split its workforce up between Pokemon and Town. Town looks better than SS and is being built from the ground up, and doesn't have the yearly obligations of Pokemon.

Nintendo is the force behind the every-year-game idea, because Pokemon makes most of its money off ads and merchandise, not games. If you think about it, the game revenue have been going down as each new release is stable but there's fewer spinoffs to tie-in. Creating brand new IP every 3 years or just recycling old IP that hasn't been seen for a decade is how Nintendo operates now.

GO changed that since it's more valuable than all of Pokemon's other revenue-generating sources combined, even with Nintendo only getting a small slice of the action. Niantic has displaced GameFreak as the centre of the Pokemon universe, but they currently don't have the ability to introduce new IP.

That's all SS is then: a vehicle to introduce new IP for everything else to work with. The game's sales are relatively unimportant because it'll get integrated into GO in 2020 and Go will continue to rake in billions per year.

Smartphones killed Pokemon. Like they killed many other things...
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Old 07-15-2019, 03:51 AM   #107
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GO changed that since it's more valuable than all of Pokemon's other revenue-generating sources combined, even with Nintendo only getting a small slice of the action. Niantic has displaced GameFreak as the centre of the Pokemon universe, but they currently don't have the ability to introduce new IP.

That's all SS is then: a vehicle to introduce new IP for everything else to work with. The game's sales are relatively unimportant because it'll get integrated into GO in 2020 and Go will continue to rake in billions per year.
From what I can find, it seems like Pokemon GO has made around $2.5 billion from launch to about April of this year. Finding the revenue split from Nintendo is a bit more complicated because the numbers aren't super out there, but I've seen at least one figure at 17% (roughly 1/6th) so let's use that. This means that from its launch in 2016 until now, Nintendo has probably made around $415 million.

If we look at individual sales of recent Pokemon games and assume they are all sold at release price (which is $40 I believe, and $60 for LGPE):

Pokemon LGPE: $637,800,000
Pokemon USUM: $320,000,000
Pokemon SM: $640,000,000

Which will total at about $1,597,800,000. There's an extra $15 million from VC releases of RBY, and probably some more from the GSC releases.

I'm not going to so super in-depth with this, but I'm not entirely sure things line up. Pokemon GO isn't a PaD or F/GO in terms of spending. It would be completely remiss to say that GO isn't important, but I don't believe it's eclipsing the games. GO is a fairly good consistent revenue stream, but Niantic is taking most of the money home, not Nintendo.
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:34 AM   #108
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Yes, not knowing a language and using an online translator is well

a perfect argument
You are right but people shouldn't be citing things as fact when they do that. And in the current state of media, look at how many actual gaming news articles took that info and ran with it like it's the holy grail.

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So, the running theory is that GameFreak does have unlimited resources, but split its workforce up between Pokemon and Town. Town looks better than SS and is being built from the ground up, and doesn't have the yearly obligations of Pokemon.
Town is what really killed Pokemon here. It feels like GF doesn't want/care about Pokemon anymore. All we can do is hope Town flops badly.

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GO is a fairly good consistent revenue stream, but Niantic is taking most of the money home, not Nintendo.
And this is what Nintendo is fuckinnnn pissed about. LGPE was made as an attempt to win over the Go players. But like.. they didn't use any common sense here? Cell phone games are free, LGPE is 300+60 for the game. (Also on a funny note, Niantic is wasting all the GO money on Wizarding World and other dumb stuff instead of making GO any better).

This is also why Nintendo is releasing Masters soon, a new mobile game that will net them all of the money.
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:54 AM   #109
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Remember though that Nintendo is very incestuous when it comes to where it gets revenue: Nintendo gets money from:

-hardware sales (Switch/3DS)
-share of the gross revenue
-share from The Pokemon Company (due to Nintendo's ownership interest)
-share from GameFreak (due to Nintendo's ownership interest)

Nintendo basically owns each console release, and those games are 40% of what GO makes each year without additional maintenance or R&D. But Nintendo doesn't get most of that GO money, and that's why they're butthurt. It's similar to Disney and Netflix: Disney screwed itself by giving Netflix unlimited streaming rights to its library for like 10 years, delaying their own streaming service. Because they underestimate the market for streaming when they signed away those agreements.

Nintendo has always been a small-minded company and feared smartphones as competition to its bread and butter hardware sales. Perception is reality in this case: GameFreak has been trying to recapture Pokemania for 20 years now, with tons of detrimental pandering and nostalgia fanservice. It would be remiss to assume Nintendo would ignore that 2016 GO pop - that's what Masters is supposed to do.

From the anime POV I personally think that Nintendo, GameFreak haven't forgotten the hype that came about from Kalos either. As dumb as the XYZ anime is, that was the most popular period for the anime since the OS - going hand in hand with Go - and Galar seems directly inspired by it, with a shift in focus away from adventure and catching and competition.

So while Nintendo is slow to adapt, they recognize stuff and integrate it into the next gen games. Famously, Alola rips off YO-KAI WATCH which was a huge threat to Pokemon during the launch of XY, early 2013. Now we're seeing the 2019 games reflect what was popular in 2016.

I don't really have any desire to roll back the clock to that cancerous time, so I might tag out when the SM anime ends.

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Town is what really killed Pokemon here. It feels like GF doesn't want/care about Pokemon anymore. All we can do is hope Town flops badly.
I hope it's a success. If it's really got the heart and effort it should be recognized as such, even if it comes at Pokemon's expense.

Pokemon is very political right now, so a more indie-style game would be welcome. Just look at how people feel toward Cuphead.
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Old 07-15-2019, 05:06 AM   #110
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I really do hope that Town does well too. It looks like it might be pretty fun.

Masters is being developed by DeNa, so expect it to be just as exploitative as FEH with bad powercreep, gacha systems, and character growth but still somehow popular.
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Old 07-15-2019, 05:32 AM   #111
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So you're jumping to say that Town killed Pokemon, rather than TPC's crappy scheduling preventing a delayed release, which would likely have happened tbh compared to what could potentially bomb the entire franchise, because lbr it's been on a downwards spiral since it left the DS and people are picking up on it. It's almost like they're going for first-week sales rather than going for an actually alright game which'd sell for longer.
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Old 07-15-2019, 05:41 AM   #112
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So you're jumping to say that Town killed Pokemon, rather than TPC's crappy scheduling preventing a delayed release, which would likely have happened tbh compared to what could potentially bomb the entire franchise, because lbr it's been on a downwards spiral since it left the DS and people are picking up on it. It's almost like they're going for first-week sales rather than going for an actually alright game which'd sell for longer.
The numbers don't back you up here lol

DP: 17.67 mil
XY: 16.34 mil
RS: 16.22 mil
SM: 16.13 mil
BW: 15.64 mil

ORAS: 14.12 mil
HGSS: 12.72 mil
FRLG: 12 mil
LGPE: 10 mil

BW2: 8.52
USUM: 7.96
Plat: 7.60
Crystal: 6.39
Emerald: 6.32
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Old 07-15-2019, 05:54 AM   #113
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Those numbers are surprisingly consistent. It’s almost as if they have a fan base that are more than likely going to buy the games despite them not being exactly what they want them to be....
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:03 AM   #114
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Those numbers are surprisingly consistent. It’s almost as if they have a fan base that are more than likely going to buy the games despite them not being exactly what they want them to be....
Consistent numbers generally mean consistent behavior, especially on a broad and large level like this. You're free to look at those numbers in the context on whatever opinion and bias you have based on the quality of the game, my point was more Iron's argument doesn't have a strong basis.
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:22 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironthunder
So you're jumping to say that Town killed Pokemon, rather than TPC's crappy scheduling preventing a delayed release, which would likely have happened tbh compared to what could potentially bomb the entire franchise, because lbr it's been on a downwards spiral since it left the DS and people are picking up on it. It's almost like they're going for first-week sales rather than going for an actually alright game which'd sell for longer.
Town didn't kill Pokemon; smartphones killed Pokemon, along with consoles in general. Home consoles have been an anachronism since 1998, and handhelds lost their purpose in life around 2013.

Many, perhaps most Pokemon fans are shallow and buy the games for shallow reasons, not the least of which is the look. I need only point out how much "hype" was generated by that stupid Masters animated trailer, despite it having almost nothing to do with the inevitable gatcha-style mobile game it's promoting.

There is a similar phenomenon going on in Japan right now where there's a huge boom in pachinko machines. Pachinko, that old person's gambling game, because modern machinko has anime cutscenes to incentivize players dumping money into it. The powerful of anime as a visual media cannot be denied, and that overpowers any appeal of the other aspects of the game.

That why the new game can't be denied. People bought LGPE exclusively for Green, they'll buy SS for Nessa. A cute/sexy anime girl that they can fantasize about is worth $60. People pay more for less on Patreon today.

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Those numbers are surprisingly consistent. It’s almost as if they have a fan base that are more than likely going to buy the games despite them not being exactly what they want them to be....
The raw numbers themselves are much more complex to interpret. One, due to inflation, the real dollar value decreases each year. But handhelds also get a lot of competition from other consoles and then smartphones.

BW2 were really the last games before mobile games exploded, starting with the first 1080p devices in 2013. But as I pointed out, Pokemon has also stopped making spinoffs, and the total number of games and consoles to play those games on has shrunk.

In 2001, Nintendo got money from the Gameboy, the Gameboy games, the Nintendo 64 and Stadium. In 2019, they are only getting (already saturated) Switch sales and Sword & Shield.

The revenue sources are much smaller, so it seems odd tat Nintendo would be interested in making a game that drives sales for a 2 year old platform.

Consider that the equivalent game to SS is ORAS. We're already 50% of the way through what might be the last console of our lifetime.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:39 AM   #116
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Word on the street is the Galar dex has 56 new Pokemon.

Alola had 80 new Pokemon and 22 were legendaries. If 50% of the new Pokemon are also legends (using the 1.7 multiplier of Gen V and Gen VII's legendary count), will the rest of the unrevealed dex basically be legends?
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Old 08-06-2019, 12:23 PM   #117
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Word on the street is the Galar dex has 56 new Pokemon.
What word is this? That sounds ridiculous.
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Old 08-06-2019, 03:08 PM   #118
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Old 08-06-2019, 04:41 PM   #119
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>leaks
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Old 08-06-2019, 04:41 PM   #120
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If that's true then the game will probably be updated with new pokemon released mid-gen. They experimented with that in Gen 7 with 5 new Ultra Beasts and then Meltan/Melmetal.

We've gotten to the point where all the new pokemon don't have to debut at the start of a generation anymore. I could see them introducing around 30 more mid-gen, not counting the usual mythicals/legends they hold back.
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Old 08-06-2019, 04:49 PM   #121
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I'm going to be disappointed if SS is based around soccer. That is absolutely going to miss its mark in America.

Couldn't they have based the regional obsession around Quidditch instead?
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Old 08-06-2019, 04:49 PM   #122
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I've seen that one. Am I missing something, though? Because it doesn't seem to give any specific number of new Pokémon that Galar will introduce, let alone 56.

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If that's true then the game will probably be updated with new pokemon released mid-gen. They experimented with that in Gen 7 with 5 new Ultra Beasts and then Meltan/Melmetal.

We've gotten to the point where all the new pokemon don't have to debut at the start of a generation anymore. I could see them introducing around 30 more mid-gen, not counting the usual mythicals/legends they hold back.
This is honestly a good point- I honestly wasn't too surprised when USUM did this, either, because I felt like they've been kinda steadily building up to that sort of thing, first with form changes added in the middle of Gens 4 and 5, and then Gen 6 introducing new moves, Abilities, and Mega Evolutions mid-generation. This felt like the next logical step, at least to me. And now that they've tested the waters in USUM, Arceus only knows how many they'll be comfortable introducing mid-generation this time around.
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Old 08-06-2019, 05:01 PM   #123
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I am looking in to it. It's apparently an unconnected rumour to the one I posted.

Regardless, I think that is the most legit leak. Since among other things, it already predicted when the next Direct was going to happen:

https://twitter.com/Pokemon/status/1158362295245783040
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Old 08-06-2019, 05:10 PM   #124
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I am looking in to it. It's apparently an unconnected rumour to the one I posted.

Regardless, I think that is the most legit leak. Since among other things, it already predicted when the next Direct was going to happen:

https://twitter.com/Pokemon/status/1158362295245783040
To my knowledge, at least a few potential leaks guessed August 7th. This does make them worth paying attention to for the time being, but ultimately, it's hard to say if any of them are legit based on that alone. Thankfully, we're less than 24 hours away from finding out more. Honestly, I kinda like the sound of this leak myself- I'd like to see this Booracuda, see if it might help me actually decide on my Water-type for my team once and for all.
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Old 08-06-2019, 05:43 PM   #125
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If that leak + 56 Pokemon are true, the climate of Pokemon is really weird right now.

On the one hand, the Alola League is going on right now to little fanfare, despite it being either the best (or worst) league depending on who you talk to. But on places like /r/pokemon NOBODY TALKS ABOUT IT, while the world was obsessed with Kalos in spite of Kalos being a pretty generic, forgettable region.

Then, we have what sounds like a legitimately unimpressive game with way out of proportion outrage because people are making up for stupidly buying LGPE last Fall. This is like people rewarding Endgame and Disney for Infinity War.

There's a major split brain disconnect somewhere. It's kinda surreal.
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