big bad birtha's suggestion box 2: secret passions unveiled

[Talon87]

Hello and welcome. The search feature at the top of the forum is your friend: not only will it help you to locate threads for shows we've discussed but it can also help you to find the ones we haven't. Meaning: you can use it to find older posts in this very thread. We've used this thread has something of a Skype chat room ourselves, and there's a fairly substantial history of discussed shows in here.

I bring it up because case in point: Nyarlko. Start there and just scroll down and skim through the next several pages. Scratch that. You're better off using the Search feature's list of returns for posts containing the word Nyarlko. You'll find viewers' thoughts on the show, some scathing, some celebratory.

If you really enjoyed it and want to make a thread for it, you can do that too. We can always cross-link the Discussion Box posts later.

[Doppleganger]

What I've been doing:

Legend of the Strongest Man, Kurosawa

Half-way through. It's an odd title and I still don't know where it's going. But I already adopted Kurosawa as a character in my visual novel, so I can't stop now!

CROSS CHANNEL

Pick a VN. Don't know anything about it. Just do it. That's what I did.

[McSweeney]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

What I've been doing:

Legend of the Strongest Man, Kurosawa

Half-way through. It's an odd title and I still don't know where it's going. But I already adopted Kurosawa as a character in my visual novel, so I can't stop now!

I think that a lot of people are too young to "get" Kurosawa. I'm not saying that you're one of these people, or that it's even necessary to be older to appreciate the story, but I do think it helps for the reader himself to have the feeling that age is catching up to him and that he's running out of time to live the kind of life he wants. Kind of like in Kaiji, when Tonegawa made the speech about how people delude themselves into thinking that their life is mediocre right now, but, "The real me is still asleep, my potential hasn't been unlocked yet. I'll turn things around eventually" until they're finally on their deathbed and realize ... "The life I lived was the real thing."

[big bad birtha]

Eden
Finished reading this. It feels like my original anticipation for this was a mistake. Like Ef, it's very very pretty. Sadly, most, if not all of my enjoyment came from that. The rest of the VN is just a boring countdown. You know something is going to happen, so you just wait with a bunch of SoL scenes until it happens. Sadly, the characters just aren't interesting enough to carry the SoL bits. The romance also felt very forced. I'm just glad it was short. I don't think I could have taken the boring for any more than that. Eden gets a 5. I can't say I disliked Eden though.

I guess next I will either read Littlewitch Romanesque or play Chrono Cross!

I also forgot to mention that I came across a snag when reading the Dragon Ball manga. The place I read the manga in went screwey with the chapters after around chapter 330, so the entire Cell Saga is just chopped out of it, and it starts again in the middle of the Buu Saga. In response to something Doppel mentioned earlier, so far, the Saiyan saga had to have been my favorite. The Piccolo/Gohan thing was nice, and the entire thing was an actual struggle. Not just a powerlevel fight (atleast at the end). I will say how trivial lives are in Dragon Ball is really funny. "Who cares if we die. The dragon balls can just bring us back to life!"

[Talon87]

Nagi no Asukara OP 1. I want more free time. So I can, amongst other things, re-watch this series.

As is, I've been too busy to even make headway on OreGairu; Death Parade I'm now behind on despite it being my No.1 favorite of the season; in fact, I'm only caught up on Pokémon, JoJo, and Sailor Moon Crystal.

But I think it's KanColle I'll try to prioritize next. Fallen way too far behind on it, and I want to see what's happened / been going on since I last saw any.

Looked into Sonna Mirai wa Uso de Aru news, just to see what was going on. Didn't find anything to report. Manga's still being printed, new chapters still coming out on occasion. That's another thing on the back burner I need to get back on top of. Sakuraba-sensei has given me two of my all-time favorites in Minami-ke and Kyou no 5-2. I'd be remiss to not read his third work.

Haven't forgotten about Meina no Fukurou either. Would still love to see them turn it into an anime. Am still looking for a copy of Volume 2 so I can find out how the story ended, however disastrously. Should still probably put a lot of things down (anime included ) to go back to working on a fan translation of that one to try and raise general awareness. We'll see.

[Talon87]

Listened to AIR's ending theme song, "Farewell Song." Looked for Air posts. Read quite a few. Rediscovered that Yuki had been introduced to Kanon 2006 by us around the same time.

September 2010.

Good lord, does the time fly ... Can't believe it's been four and a third years since then. Also didn't realize Yuki was posting in Anime so early. Thought she didn't really get rolling until December.

Anyway ... Farewell Song by Lia. I really love this song. I wish I would've liked Air as much, but ehhh ... ^^;

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Listening to Scramble (School Rumble OP1). Man do I miss a lot of things connected with this show. If any lurkers or newcomers are reading this and you still haven't seen School Rumble, you should totally check it out. (Just remember: it's YouTube. Spoilers are bound to be in the comments section for the very end of the series. So never look!)

Fell for my own trap ??? and ended up watching the entire first episode. Now I want to rewatch the whole thing -- and finish the manga! #fiveyearoldplans #thetortoiseandthehare

[lilboocorsola]

On a similar note, was relistening to Nagi no Asukara's 2nd OP yesterday (really wish there was a full unpitched version on YT) and felt like reading old posts as well. Kinda wish I had participated more on the Forum in the past year, but oh well.

In a late response to BBB, I was interested in eden for the fact that it's very pretty. Too bad to hear there's not much beyond that.

On a somewhat related topic, might as well share what I consider Makoto Shinkai's best work. For once I'm impressed by the story rather than the animation. (Maybe because it's purely about family rather than star-crossed lovers. *shot*)

Also, LWA's sequel has been confirmed for a theatrical release this year.

[McSweeney]

Farewell Song owns. I mostly see people praise the opening, Tori No Uta, but Farewell Song is so much better.

I recognize that Air is heavily flawed, and for that reason I would only ever recommend it to people with very specific tastes, but I really liked the central plot involving Misuzu, Yukito and Haruka. I wish they could cut out all the other stuff and focus on that. Air the Movie had a chance to do exactly this, but they screwed it up!

Spoiler: show

I thought the beach scene where Misuzu is about to go back to her dad, but then fights her way out of his grip, stumbles toward Haruka while crying, "MAMA!" was equally powerful as the wheat field scene in Clannad After. I've always said that any hack can write a sad scene that involves somebody dying, but it takes real skill to write a tearjerker without death. The whole episode was one big masterful build up to that one point. The beginning and ending sections of the show are why I think so highly of it, the middle isn't so great.

Plus I watched the show during one balmy summer, and it felt like I was there, you know?

[Talon87]

Listening to "Tears Infection" once again, the OP to Myself;Yourself. Made me want to write about it, consider recommending it to others, find pictures, etc. Well, I wasn't able to really recommend it since, unfortunately, the target demographic for my recommendation -- non-anime watchers who {spoiler for end of show} -- can't really be expected to sit through 12 episodes of buildup for one episode of payoff.

Spoiler: show

{spoiler}: have considered committing suicide

And because it's not like it was the greatest show ever or anything, there isn't much in the way of fanart or people gushing about it or anything.

But I did find at least one person who considers it one of her favorite shows of all time, so that was kind of heartwarming in a way, since even if I don't feel the same way it does make me happy that someone out there really loved Myself;Yourself.

And then I also found this. I actually don't remember this line even being in/from Myself;Yourself. I feel like it's a line we've heard elsewhere, and far more recently, like Maoyuu or Hataraku Maou-sama.

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Because of what happened in the 60th episode of Pokémon XY, I ended up bringing up Sakurasou indirectly to AK2. He became interested and I ended up giving him the program's name. He's started to watch the series and is really enjoying it. I look forward to hearing his thoughts once he sees Episode 21. Right now he says that he loves Shiina and that Nanami is the sole character in the show he dislikes. I have to wonder how long that second bit will last, if the rest of UPN is any indication ...

Anyway, Sakurasou OP1, Sakurasou ED1. Years later and I still listen to these songs every month (or more frequently). Still adore this series. Might not have been a 10 or even a 9 out of 10, but I really had fun watching it with you guys and man was it an emotional ride.

Adorable (collection of) scene(s) A. Adorable scene B. Adorable scene C. (Don't click that last one if you haven't seen the school festival all the way through yet!) Shiina is ridiculously adorable. And this show was really quite cute and fun.

[Lanturn]

So today I was having a casual anime chat with a friend, then we were just talking about random stuff, though we eventually got to a topic that I wanted to ask the thread. We were talking about insanely popular animes (eg SAO, Naruto etc) and we got into a discussion whether if mainstream animes mean the same thing as insanely popular animes. I'm not sure what I was talking about, but I told him I thought mainstream animes are basically a "Anime Watcher's Starter Kit" which many start with before they move onto further genres, with most of it basically action and shounen and stuff. He said the word mainstream miffed him and he thinks that "mainstream animes" means the plot is full of cliches and gets lame-ish at times, which to him means SnK and Tokyo Ghoul aren't "mainstream".

So Question Time: What does a mainstream anime mean (there might be a dictionary definition lying somewhere but I dun wanna ;;) to you and how do you a draw the line?

---

Also NAGI NO ASUKARA I FEEL SO TEMPTED TO REWATCH. Another question: Does a dramatic anime where it's mostly full of twists and turns lose its level of enjoyment once you rewatch it, since you know what's gonna happen? I think this is a case-by-case one but I'm just curious :p

[Sparkbeat]

I'd probably say that, at least in the US, there aren't any "mainstream anime". To be mainstream, I think something needs to be a thing you can ask a random guy on the street about, they'd recognize the name and know that it's an anime. Not necessarily what it's about, but that it's some animated show/movie. There's definitely different things that are mainstream for different age groups though, but overall I'd say no anime are mainstream here at the moment, the closest things being Pokemon, whose widespreadness can also be attributed to the games, and maybe in the future Ghost in the Shell, depending on the success of its live action remake. Even then most people will probably think it's an original production.

[lilboocorsola]

I consider mainstream to mean "popular/well known", although levels of mainstream can vary. On the internet I would still consider Haruhi to be "mainstream", and am always surprised whenever an animé fan hasn't at least heard of it - wheras casual watchers/people on the streets wouldn't be expected to know the name. Same sorta goes for Madoka now, especially after learning just how widespread it is in the West after Animé Boston last year.

Spark bringing up Ghost in the Shell does beg the question of whether old classics like Cowboy Bebop and Neon Genesis Evangelion count. I think "mainstream" is mostly defined by generations as to what's currently popular at the moment. Even Naruto I think has run its course for the most part, the manga having finally ended and all. FMA was fairly mainstream for its time. Today it is pretty much SnK and SAO - and to an extent Tokyo Ghoul (although I would say it leans more on the internet level of fame).

[big bad birtha]

I always considered mainstream anime to be the shows that are all over the place. You know, always the front cover of anime magizines, on every streaming site, stuff like that. You could say "popular", but eh. Either that, or just shows that even people who don't give a fuck about anime know about.

Like when I started watching, I'd say Inuyasha, DBZ, and maybe Kenshin were the more mainstream titles of those yesteryears. For stuff right now, SAO and SnK of course. I can't really think of any others. Maybe Nisekoi?

I think Mr. Friend's definition is right and wrong. They certainly tend to go in the direction of easy-watching. In other words, cliche. However, there's some exceptions.

_____________________________

For question numero-dos. It shouldn't kill much enjoyment. That is, if you're able to get into the moment they made those twists. I enjoyed Higurashi, a mystery, on several re-runs. Same with Kanon, where it's a similar case. Though for me, I tend to forget most details after a couple of years, so rewatches after two years feel fresh for me!

[Doppleganger]

Mainstream is just what's well known and popular. Most uses of it these days are as a pejorative against titles with certain characteristics that give it mass appeal. Like martial arts. Pretty much anything that features some form of capable fighting is going to be popular with someone.

I've really disliked the idea of an "Anime Starter Kit". I never try to just hand people homework and tell them to do it before they're allowed in the discussion room. Certainly, there are titles for historical or craft purposes that are worth seeing early, but it doesn't have to be portrayed as a chore.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Lanturn

What does a mainstream anime mean to you and how do you a draw the line?

I like the replies others have offered thus far. I agree that if it shows up on the cover of Newtype Magazine or similar, that's a point towards it being mainstream. If I hear people who don't make a hobby of anime but watch one on occasion bringing it up, then that's a point towards it being mainstream. Like, I have heard some YouTube Let's Players mentioning Shingeki no Kyojin / Attack on Titan before, with much enthusiasm. That to me signifies Shingeki no Kyojin's mainstream status.

Bit it's tricky because ... fame/notoriety alone doesn't mean you're mainstream, I feel. For example, video game journalists always mention the controversial RapeLay game by name, but I don't think RapeLay constitutes a "mainstream video game," not even in erogamer circles. If you want a mainstream eroge, and I mean something with actual focus on sex in it -- sorry, FSN! -- then you probably want something like Taimanin Asagi or Inyouchuu, something that has gotten adaptations into anime and manga, something that has gotten tons of doujins, something that has gotten sequels, and last but perhaps most importantly something that has been parodied or copycatted by others. That isn't RapeLay. Yet RapeLay is the #1 R18 Japanese video game that pundits can name. Notorious ... but not mainstream. At least, that's my thinking.

Closest example I can think of for regular anime would be School Days. It has a notorious ending ("Nice boat") but isn't a mainstream anime, isn't the sort of program most anime fans wanted to watch back then or today.

Originally Posted by Lanturn

Another question: Does a dramatic anime where it's mostly full of twists and turns lose its level of enjoyment once you rewatch it, since you know what's gonna happen? I think this is a case-by-case one but I'm just curious :p

Definitely a case-by-case basis. This one is tougher for me to diagnose so I'm just going to give you several personal examples.

Hikaru no Go is a show that remains good even after you know the twists. But a lot of it is powerful "NNNGNGH! " nostalgia. Wouldn't probably be the same if you went in on your very first viewing spoiled by the Internet.

Karei Naru Ichizoku is untouchable the first time you watch it because HOLY CLIFFHANGERS, BATMAN! But it's still marvelous on subsequent viewings. Nothing quite like that first viewing.

Romance of the Three Kingdoms is almost unreal in how good it is on repeat viewings / readings. Not hurt at all by knowing the outcomes. In fact, I think it's all the more sad and epic when you see stuff in the earlier portions knowing how things are going to turn out in the later ones.

Another, a murder mystery, is pretty severely weakened by knowing the answer. You can still watch it again, but you'll never get Viewing No.1 back.

Toradora! and other love stories are or can be good on subsequent viewings, but you'll never get back that first viewing experience where, right on up 'til the bitter end, you didn't know for sure how various parties' relationships would pan out.

Fate/Zero, Rozen Maiden, and all other survival games suffer to varying degrees for their format's reliance upon the viewers becoming excited over the uncertainty of who will win and/or how. But the truly great ones can remain great even after you already know every outcome. (See: Romance of the Three Kingdoms.) Things change; where before you were excited to know the outcome, on a subsequent viewing you can become nostalgic or otherwise emotional as you watch the combatants fight to the death, knowing who is about to lose. This phenomenon is acutely experienced even by the first-time viewer who chooses to rewatch a particular scene over again. (E.g. the Fate/Zero viewer who decides to rewatch Lancer's final scene on YouTube.)

[Doppleganger]

I haven't re-watched Hikaru no Go but I intuitively agree with Talon that it probably wouldn't hold up on a re-watch, mostly because the universe crafted on the initial view felt very fabricated to me. It's a clean, pristine, almost saccharine world built like a cradle to raise professional Go players. Like Barney, any of the negative aspects of the world are completely ignored by the HnG universe. The most negative aspect of the whole series is Touya's grudge against Sai/Hikaru.

Another, I think the mechanical concept behind the haunting is frightening no matter how many times you view it. Certainly the stuff that happens can be quite funny, but the nuts and bolts of how it happens is scary.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

I haven't re-watched Hikaru no Go but I intuitively agree with Talon that it probably wouldn't hold up on a re-watch

That's not at all what I said! XD I said it does hold it up! And it does! Has! 'Cause I've watched it like three full times at this point and it was a 10/10 every time!

What I said though was, I think the reviewings are allowed to be powerful because the first original viewing was so darn powerful. So you have a lot of helpful nostalgia going for it. (Every time a moment happens that in Viewing No.1 was a big plot reveal, in Viewings Nos.2+ it's a big nostalgia bomb.) And then I said that, if your first viewing was ruined by spoilers on the Internet, then in addition to Viewing No.1 being weaker I wager that Viewings Nos.2+ would be weak(er) too.

[Doppleganger]

Yeah, there was some mis-communication here. You didn't initially say it was a perfect score every time (I don't equate "remains good" with "same value", when I use it I generally allow for some depreciation), and you admitted parts of the show could be coloured by nostalgia.

I agree, I think the core of Hikaru no Go would hold-up over reputed viewings, but it's stuff that I complained about on the initial view that would probably annoy me all the more now, since I've become a pessimistic sour-puss. There's stuff I've forgotten about the title I'd have to re-watch to get a feel.

Spoiler: show

I remember the tale of that older guy who was kind of mean to Hikaru, but drove him on his bike after he failed to be a Go pro for the final time. This was pretty dark but was totally ignored by the story, the failure aspect of being a Go player. For the Go Association, they want as many applicants as possible. But it's a risky undertaking for anyone who wants a taste of the top.

[McSweeney]

I can also confirm that Hikaru no Go holds up on repeated viewings. As a matter of fact, I initially rated it 9/10, then when I re-watched a bunch of episodes I thought, "What was I thinking? This is a no doubter 10/10."

As for what my extremely unscientific definition of "mainstream anime" is, I think it's any show that a lot of people who aren't even anime enthusiasts know about. Play on American television is a must. I saw this first hand when I used to be really into watching League of Legends streams a year or two ago. A lot of the guys would talk about the anime that they were watching and how excited they were to see the next episode, and it was always the same shows: Attack on Titan and Sword Art Online. This disqualifies certain shows like Madoka Magica, The Melancholy and Steins;Gate, even though they're extremely well known among people who do any remotely serious research on anime. Here's my complete list of what I think are mainstream:

Naruto, Bleach, Pokemon, DBZ, One Piece, Sailor Moon, Attack on Titan, Sword Art Online, Death Note

I remember in the early 2000s when I browsed anime message boards, and a lot of people insulted Pokemon and said, "It's not even real anime!" they had this bizarre idea that "anime" was not any piece of animation that came out of Japan, but it had to meet certain benchmarks for maturity and all this nonsense lol. This was back when "edginess" was in. You could tell somebody that an anime or video game was dark and had a ton of violence in it, and it would instantly get cred because of it, regardless of how good it actually was. Nowadays this has reversed, and things that try too hard to be edgy are the subject of mockery.

[Talon87]

On the Hikaru no Go love train, "Mae wo Muite" ("Face Forward / Look Forward"), one of several in-series remixes of "Get Over." Took a look at the comments. Loved how 50% of them are people using the M word -- masterpiece -- to express their feelings towards this series.

Both this song and "Tomadoi" (warning: don't read the comments b/c spoilers), the similar sounding remix of the second ED theme, are among the most beloved. In part because of their innate quality, but doubtless at least in part also because of the Pavlovian association of these songs with the mesmerizing scenes they feature in.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

So I may be twenty-one episodes into School Rumble. >.> I really wish I just had the manga in physical form so I could be lazy+warm reading it in bed. I just don't like reading manga at a desk on a computer screen. :\ Anyway, goal is to finally, finally read Part III and see the long-awaited series finale.

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AK2 watched all of Sakurasou. He really liked it. IIRC I asked him to give it an out-of-10 rating at the end of our conversation and he gave it a 9. It was a good little show. Maybe not a 9 for me, but I still love it all the same.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

I'm caught up on Death Parade, JoJo, and soon to be Kantai Collection as well. Posts (eventually) in their respective threads. Current feelings on the shows this season that I'm watching:

Death Parade - 9/10, pooooooossibly an 8/10

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Stardust Crusaders - 7/10, I think, but it might gain a point back come The Big Conclusion

Kantai Collection - 6/10, but if it had been more like half of the episodes were then it probably would've been a 7

Sailor Moon Crystal: Dark Moon - 6.5/10, cheating, I know, round down to 6 before rounding up to 7

Pokémon XY - 6/10 viewed as a children's program

[Doppleganger]

I've been swamped with work, sickness and other stuff. But I'd like to comment that the new Haruhi designs for the Yuki-chan anime have been earning the ire of a lot of fans, and I don't see why.

The Carnival Phantasm designs for TM didn't upset people, so why are these changes eliciting such a response? As I understand it isn't Yuki-chan going to be closer to CP than say Haruhi proper?

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

I've been swamped with work, sickness and other stuff. But I'd like to comment that the new Haruhi designs for the Yuki-chan anime have been earning the ire of a lot of fans, and I don't see why.

The Carnival Phantasm designs for TM didn't upset people, so why are these changes eliciting such a response? As I understand it isn't Yuki-chan going to be closer to CP than say Haruhi proper?

People complain about everything, but I think it's a good compromise between the manga and animé designs. Compare to the manga cover:

Spoiler: show

I was more bothered by the lolimoe style shift of the second season since it was a divergence of the same series, but this is a spin-off which they seem to be faithfully adapting. The manga was drawn by the same author as Haruhi-chan, so it makes sense for it to look different. It's not a parody like Haruhi-chan or CP though.

On a related note I am personally puzzled by the hate towards the new Digimon character redesigns. It's simplistic but I like the mature look.

[Doppleganger]

I worry that Digimon is going to mutate like Crystal did:



Although it seems like in recent years Digimon is moving very heavily toward the female humanoid Digimon focus. It's no surprise why. They're digital monster girls.

[Talon87]

Goddammit, I'm thirty episodes into School Rumble and two episodes into Hikaru no Go. -.-; The good news is, I've stopped myself on School Rumble and switched gears to the manga. (The sub-bad news is, I'm forcing myself to start at the beginning for the authentic bragging rights of being able to say that I did read the entire manga and not just portions of it. ^^; ) The bad news is, this is still a lot of "lost" time that, while I'm enjoying the stories immensely, means that I'm further delaying various posts or visits to other series (e.g. OreGairu, Ilya 2wei, NGNL, and so on). Sigh.

[Doppleganger]

I've been kind of bad with re-watches/reads as well. I re-read most of One Punch Man for the third time. :<