SOPA and PROTECT-IP

[deoxys]

H.R.3261 - Stop Online Piracy Act and Bill S. 968 - The PROTECT IP Act

Hearings begin today for these in the US House Judiciary commitee in Washington. If either one of these passes, it will cripple the internet as we know it into nothing but a mere shell of it's former self.

You can read SOPA in it's entirety here (PDF)

Linking to copyrighted material would be considered a felony, and this would destroy not only YouTube, Twitter, Tumblr, Facebook, Reddit, StumbleUpon, Wikipedia, almost any site at all, but it also destroys the concept of a search engine, (Google and Yahoo! obviously included, in fact, Google is the only site I'm hearing that gets a say during the hearings). Users who post copyrighted material, including uploading a video of yourself singing a song to YouTube, could be sent to prison for as long as 5 years and pay a fine to boot.


You can read more here

I also highly recommend this video

If you do not want these to pass, it is crucial you write your congressman and/or senator and tell them to back off. Now I know many people might roll their eyes or such at the idea of writing their representatives, but this is dire and could very well change the way we use the internet for the worse.

If any of the following are your representatives, please contact them. They have already come out in support as sponsors for SOPA.

Lamar Smith (R-TX)

John Conyers (D-MI)

Bob Goodlatte (R-VA)

Howard L. Berman (D-CA)

Tim Griffin (R-AR)

Elton Gallegly (R-CA)

Theodore E. Deutch (D-FL)

Steve Chabot (R-OH)

Dennis Ross (R-FL)

Marsha Blackburn (R-TN)

Mary Bono Mack (R-CA)

Lee Terry (R-NE)

Adam B. Schiff (D-CA)

Mel Watt (D-NC)

John Carter (R-TX)

Karen Bass (D-CA)

Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL)

Peter King (R-NY)

Mark E. Amodei (R-NV)

Tom Marino (R-PA)

Alan Nunnelee (R-MS)

John Barrow (D-GA)

Steve Scalise (R-LA)

Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)

William L. Owens (D-NY)

This is not a one sided issue. 15 Republicans and 10 Democrats are in favor of this so far.


All of that being said, let's discuss.

[Rangeet]

Bitch please....
I'm from India.

Ok but seriously. This had better not pass. Meh...I doubt it will.

[Lady Kuno]

Haha I literally just read about this a few minutes before this thread went up. I'm not sure it'll pass, but who knows.

[DaveTheFishGuy]

Christ. Some people really don't know the meaning of the world 'overkill'.

I'm not sure how this'd affect those of us outside the U.S., but given that the majority of sites are hosted in the States I can imagine that it would be bad.

[Lady Kuno]

UPN isn't hosted in the USA. So feel free to stream whatever you want here.

[Talon87]

The punishment should fit the crime.

Shoplifting a $2 toothbrush out from the grocery - a misdemeanor with a paltry slap on the wrist
Downloading a 10¢ song off of the Internet - $2500 in fines if you plea guilty right from the start, even more if you try and fight it

This was already bad enough, that they blow things way out proportion when it comes to music piracy due to the RIAA's lobbying influence. But now they want to say that it's a felony to download a file? To watch a streaming file on Youtube? To run across a filepath URL while doing a Google search? C'mon, guys, you're not being rational. You're going to ruin people's lives -- you're going to put them on the felons list and completely fuck over their chances for employment -- just because of a little file piracy? This is like putting someone on the felons list because they stole that toothbrush. Or that apple. Or that bag of Cheetos. You shouldn't steal, but at the same time the punishment for theft ought to fit the crime. Downloading an MP3 is not the same as grand vehicular theft, so why do we treat it as such? The punishment is way too strong for such a petty crime.

[deoxys]

Originally Posted by Holy Emperor

UPN isn't hosted in the USA. So feel free to stream whatever you want here.

Yes, however, since the government wouldn't be able to shut down UPN, they could have it blacklisted for US users if this thing passes (though I highly doubt it, it's always a possibility)



Also Talon basically nailed it. I watched an ad that was pro-media industry and pro-SOPA, and they missed so many points it was almost depressingly funny. At one point they literally say that if they don't get paid what they're due, Spongebob could go off the air at any given time, and that's why this needs to happen.

It's a shifting market place and it's constantly changing. Change with it and get with the times or fall behind and go nowhere.

[Princess Ana]

Wow, this is such bullshit. Do they realize what they are doing?

They are basically giving the entertainment business power to say, "Well, I don't like you, so, I'll post an infringing link and get you sacked."

If this bill gets passed, there is going to be mayhem and protests, and likely, they won't be able to shut down sites anyway.

Hell, I'll create a program that would cause a "backlash", a returning signal when the programs detects a foreign influence and sends a shutdown signal.

[Doppleganger]

I actually did email my Congressman about this, for some reason it scares me more than previous bluffs have in the past.

I might not like the obnoxious Web 2.0 movement, but if I benefit from it in a public goods dilemma sort of way, I'm not going to go out of my way to kill the golden goose. If I have to side with the Devil to beat back a worse Devil, so be it.

[Shuckle]

Why do people who go on Google now have more to fear than people who smoke pot?

Why is stealing a CD less of a crime than downloading a song?

What implications does this have for bronies who feel the need to stream off the Internet because it's really awkward to watch MLP with friends?

All this and more - on Congress!

[Rangeet]

Ok...what are the actual chances this goes through? I actually want to know.

Also,

Spoiler: show

If this passes, at least we'll be able to watch people sue TPB and they'll all be like "We live in Sweden. TROLLFACE"

[Doppleganger]

Originally Posted by Rangeetsuper

Ok...what are the actual chances this goes through? I actually want to know.

Normally, close to zero. The parties involved in an IP war are artists, marketers and pirates. More often than not, artists are also pirates, so the number of small artists who are actually getting screwed by piracy is pretty darn small. Not insignificant, but comparing the needs/wants of society, piracy trumps them.

Marketers have teeth, and they're the big rollers behind this bill. While they have lobbying power, the sheer number of opponents to restrictions of this variety typically forces Congress to just introduce the issue, then kill it on either the House/Senate floor. There are a lot more important, relevant issues at hand anyway than copyright. But in July, a hentai ban was passed for the city of Tokyo so I wouldn't be blown away if something spectacular happened with this bill.

[Kindrindra]

Combine Talon's post and Shuckle's post, then analyze it.

It comes out as 100% common sense. Whoever the hell introduced this bill (Mr. Smith? Really?!) should just... I don't even know. I mean, it doesn't impact me directly, but as I've said before, Justice whore. This bill is so idiotic that I can't comprehend that someone actually thought it would be a good idea. And I count stepping into other's shoes as my best skill. D:

[unownmew]

I saw something about this a few days ago, but didn't think it was actually this sudden, I guess I was wrong.

This is outrageous! And I'm ashamed of my Texan Representatives. I'm definitely going to be doing something about this.

Here's my Letter to Congress, actually I have to thank you Deoxys, for putting me into touch with that site, now I can monitor my representatives better, and do my duty as a Citizen.
I implore others to do the same.

Spoiler: show

I am writing as your constituent in the 3rd Congressional district of Texas. I sincerely OPPOSE both H.R.3261 - Stop Online Piracy Act, and Bill S. 968 - The PROTECT IP Act, and am tracking them both using OpenCongress.org, thankfully, one of the few free public resources that allows this our National Government to be scrutinized by We the People, for whom it works, and held accountable to those which are your employers.

Both bills are a Gross overstepping of the bounds of my government, a censorship of Tyrannical proportions. No matter the magnitude of the effect, be it large or small, the very idea that my government, a government beholden to myself and my fellow citizens, can regulate our most efficient method for free discourse across the country and around the world, on any basis, and in any manner, is an appalling abomination to the principles our country has been founded upon, and which protect and promote our freedoms.

I implore you, not only to vote "NO!" in response to this bill, but to share my sentiments and those of my fellow citizens, with your fellow Congress members, Democrat and Republican alike, and particularly your fellow Representatives of Texas.
Debate hard, but compromise not, and ignore all slights by media outlets. For it is you, not them, who represent Us, and it is We, not them, who will determine that which we desire from our government.

Thank you for reading, and thank you for your representation.

Sincerely,
[my real name]

[kusari]

It's all pretty much bullshit to keep streaming/distribution in the mainstream economy rather than let us have it for free. If any of the supporters would look at the big picture for just a second, they'd see that this will have a severely negative effect upon the foundation of modern society.

Also, agreeing with Shuckle on his "bronies" comment.

[Shuckle]

The main point we have to remember here is that, like it or not, the passage of this bill would utterly destroy the Internet as we know it. Some things would just vanish off the face of the earth, such as search engines. Who knows, under the proposed law, typed papers could not be effectively checked against academic resources because sites such as Turnitin are accessing copyrighted material? Plagiarism would explode.

I don't think this is actually going to go through. Tougher penalties for piracy? Sure, I can live with that. I don't "pirate" things by the current definition anyway. But revamping the definition of piracy? That's scary shit right there. I would not be able to casually access music that I am not sure about and wish to preview (the whole song) before I buy it. I do this habitually on Youtube (for things I later purchase, such as Last Friday Night, most of Weird Al's songs, and for things I later refuse to purchase, such as the Lazy Song).

I am not a TV watcher at all, and if I was forced to view commericals and TV shows on actual TV instead of Hulu because that's now considered piracy, I will no longer bother with funny things on television. The nice, easily accessed records of commercials, videos, and lists of sources would vanish into the ether.

Because there are such heavy repercussions for this, I really, really doubt those Congressmen are actually in support of this. Of course, they could really want this, which is more than enough reason not to vote for them; for a ruling section of the country that is supposed to be focused on what the public wants, they show surprisingly little interest in what the public wants as it stands right now. :/

If your Congressman is on the list above, skip Congress, send Obama a letter, and tell him to veto.

[deoxys]

The worry at this point isn't so much whether or not the politicians are smart enough to know how bad it is, but that the MPAA and just about all of Hollywood is lobbying this thing so fucking hard that it almost comes down to greed. If someone votes in favor of the bill and they actually have a concept of the internet, you can bet your ass it's because they are being handed a big fat check to do so and they should be voted out of office at the next immediate chance available.

Now, supposedly Obama has come out against the bill, and while that's nice and all, it doesn't completely secure that it won't go through.

Even if it doesn't go through this time, too, a year ago, a very similar bill called COICA was voted down. What this means is the MPAA and the rest of the industry will keep fucking trying to push this through one way or another, potentially every year until they get the wording right. Hell, who's to say they won't slip this bill into another in the future that has an alternate motive, with a different name, like "Protect Our Children in Cyberspace Act (POCCA)" or something? Fuck, with a name like that they'd be golden. They could even slip into another bill that has overwhelming majority and nothing to do with the internet!

At this point it just feel inevitable, but to fuck if I'm not going to stand against it.

Congress declared pizza a vegetable, Homeland Security worked in coordination with cities to try and shut down Occupy protests all at once, congress insider trading was just unveiled as a huge scandal, the audit of the Fed revealed $16 TRILLION in loaned money to banks and corporations, and now they're trying to censor the internet. The FUCK did this country go wrong?

[DaveTheFishGuy]

Originally Posted by deoxys

The FUCK did this country go wrong?

[insert imperialism joke about 1776 here]

[unownmew]

Originally Posted by deoxys

Now, supposedly Obama has come out against the bill, and while that's nice and all, it doesn't completely secure that it won't go through.

Well if Obama is against this bill, that raises him +1 in my book (though he's still pretty low)

Even if it doesn't go through this time, too, a year ago, a very similar bill called COICA was voted down. What this means is the MPAA and the rest of the industry will keep fucking trying to push this through one way or another, potentially every year until they get the wording right. Hell, who's to say they won't slip this bill into another in the future that has an alternate motive, with a different name, like "Protect Our Children in Cyberspace Act (POCCA)" or something? Fuck, with a name like that they'd be golden. They could even slip into another bill that has overwhelming majority and nothing to do with the internet!

That is exactly how politics works. Politicians name a bill something every citizen would want and something no other politician would want on their record as opposing when they run for re-election, to hide the fact that it's loaded full of junk no one wants or needs, except the beneficiaries. (like the "Raise Everyone's Taxes, this is just a gambit bill so we can blame Republicans for not supporting jobs, and it's not intended to pass but we would love if it did Jobs Bill" That was put forth earlier this year) The "average" citizen just pays attention to the general news (which is biased for Big Government), and takes all the tricky naming and speeches telling them what the bill "does" at face value, instead of delving deeper, and so they get duped into supporting their own death warrant (so to speak).

That's why it's so important for Every Citizen to pay attention to politics, and vote in a fully informed manner.

Congress declared pizza a vegetable, Homeland Security worked in coordination with cities to try and shut down Occupy protests all at once, congress insider trading was just unveiled as a huge scandal, the audit of the Fed revealed $16 TRILLION in loaned money to banks and corporations, and now they're trying to censor the internet. The FUCK did this country go wrong?

Don't forget Fast and Furious, where the government was giving guns to Mexican drug gangs to fuel the pro-gun-control arguments, and The Solyndra scandal

And I'll tell you what went wrong, we all, as Citizens of the United States, did not do our job in regulating our government, keeping it in check, and keeping ourselves informed, which allowed it to go out of control.

The only way to fix it, is for serious governmental reform to occur, and for we American's to keep an eye on our government at all times. This requires the majority of representatives to be voted out, and new ones, who know their place as the Citizens' Employees, to be voted in, and make laws to regulate themselves, that are not so easily altered (Constitutional Amendments)


"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding." ~Louis D. Brandeis

"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." ~James Madison, speech, Virginia Convention, 1788

"It Poisons the blessings of liberty itself. It will be of little avail to the people, that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood." -Federalist #63

[Shuckle]

Originally Posted by unownmew

That's why it's so important for Every Citizen to pay attention to politics, and vote in a fully informed manner.

And I'll tell you what went wrong, we all, as Citizens of the United States, did not do our job in regulating our government, keeping it in check, and keeping ourselves informed, which allowed it to go out of control.

This has always been important. Always. However, it's been slipping...60% of registered voters don't actually vote.

This is why we all need to go buy movie tickets and satisfy Hollywood by letting them know that we really do appreciate their work enough to pay them for it. Although I can't really see the issue here because every time I go to the theater, it's packed. Every time! It's hard to imagine people who make billions of dollars a year complaining about losing a couple hundred thousand. Making it a criminal offense, though, is going to ensure anyone who votes for it a quick trip out of Washington.

That should be the next question to the candidates running for office right now, including Obama.

[Selena]

Old thread, I know but...

Good news everybody, the goverment of the Netherlands have decided that downloading copyrighted material from the internet (with the exception of games I believe) remains LEGAL.

Thank you and goodnight.

[Talon87]

Ahahahaha. I bet that's going to bite the Netherlands in the ass in terms of how quickly you get movies and stuff exported to you by the American studios and therefore get to see them ...

... except oh wait! No it isn't! Because you can just DOWNLOAD THEM ALL! XD OH SNAP!

[deoxys]

I honestly don't know how what is basically a form of theft can essentially be legal, but I approve wholeheartedly.

[Talon87]

Originally Posted by deoxys

I honestly don't know how what is basically a form of theft can essentially be legal, but I approve wholeheartedly.

It's only theft because you're used to thinking of it as theft for so long. The answer to the question "Is it theft or is it not theft?" is really an open one that is up to each society to decide for itself. Remember: in the 1980s, we wholeheartedly embraced the notion that you could record songs off of the airwaves using cassette recorders and later that you could record television programming off of the airwaves using VCRs. Even then, in the '80s and '90s, the entertainment industry raised holy hell and argued that it was theft. But the government said, "Noooooooo? " And the companies were forced to settle for -- or perhaps even to convince the American public of the legitimacy of the claim that -- the music or television's being staticky or interrupted by other stuff meant that it wasn't a "perfect recording" and therefore didn't infringe on IP.

Now, here's the thing: the music and movie industries went on to argue, in the 2000s, that the reason music and movie piracy was 100% uncondonable was because you were stealing a flawless copy of the song/film, not a crappy one you recorded with your own cassette player or VCR. But the problem then was, and today especially is, what if the digital copy is markedly inferior? What if it does have a watermark in the top-right corner of the screen? What if it does have banner ads that pop up once every 30 minutes? What if there is a staticky snowy noise during one of the conversations that lasts for 2 seconds? What then? Clearly this is a flawed copy of the film. Why, then, is it any different than recording a song on your boombox and sharing it with your friends or family?

Like I said, it's a fair question, and you can go both ways with this. Neither answer is categorically "correct." It's all up to a society to decide for itself what is and isn't right when it comes to this question. In any event, the two logical routes you can take are:

Route 1 - the USA route - "Well shit. I guess we were wrong in the first place to have allowed VCRs and cassette recorders to come into existence. These shouldn't be allowed either! If you want to record something yourself, fine, but now we're going to slowly but surely change the laws so that it becomes illegal for you to make copies of your own recordings of copyrighted material and to share them with others!"

Route 2 - the Netherlands route - "Well shit. I guess this means the companies are fucked then. Because clearly we're not about to illegalize people's right to record shit off of the airwaves and to then share it with their buddies. So yeah: what difference does it make whether they record it with a cassette player or whether they record it with a home theater system hooked up to their PC? And what difference does it make whether they share it with one stranger or with one thousand or with one million? The principle of the matter is still the same. We're not going to ban people from using VCRs to record television broadcasts, so likewise we're not about to ban people from ripping songs off of their CDs that they bought with their own money and then sharing those songs online with whomever they wish."

Now, I have no idea what Holland's rules are regarding profiting off of piracy (i.e. does the Netherlands allow people to make money off of selling digital copies of songs they extract from their CDs?), but clearly they're a-okay with allowing people to do the not-for-profit stuff. And this is a huge difference from American policy in the last 10-15 years.

[deoxys]

....Point completely taken.