UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Video Games

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-04-2015, 10:44 PM   #26
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Whoaaaaaaaaaa! Nested spoiler gauge first (for first-time players to assess if the rest of the post is safe), then the discussion second. (Chapter 05)

Spoiler: show
If you've seen an explosion, press on.

Spoiler: show
If you've seen a familiar face beneath a hood, press on.

Spoiler: show
If you've seen Phoenix & Co. investigate the fire pit, press on.

Spoiler: show
If you've seen someone running away from pursuers in the forest, press on.

Spoiler: show
If you've reached the Shades' camp, that's right where I am.

Spoiler: show
Kira is still alive: Well HOW ABOUT THAT? Guess I shouldn't have called it a tin foil hat! Pretty much called it, and not a moment too soon!

But wow! It still came as a surprise, calling it or not. I was glad to see Kira still alive but sorry to see that she seems like a brainwashed drone in a cult now. :\ Guess we'll have to see what happens to her and all the other "executed" witches as time goes on.

Maya didn't die: Called it. (Though I did hedge my bets, admittedly. ) Glad to see she's alive and had never died at all rather than that she did die and would be brought back to life through magic. I guess this brings us to ...

The fire pit: Sooooooooo ... the investigation here pretty much reminds me, Professor Layton games tend to fake you out with the supernatural! They pretend to have legit supernatural elements and then they turn out to not have them after all. Given that the fire pit executions have been explained away in the manner that they have, I'm feeling confident that the rest of the apparently supernatural occurrences in the game -- "magic" this and "magic" that -- will likewise prove to be illusions that have very natural explanations behind them. I could of course be speaking too soon, but ...

The gold Professor Layton: It's been heavily implied at this point a) that the gold Layton statue still exists even though we have Hershel Layton in the flesh before us and b) that Layton was never turned into gold to begin with, that it was all an illusion meant to fool us. There's still maybe a 1% of ambiguity here that suggests Layton really was turned to gold and that this is why he can't remember anything that happened between then and now, but it's seeming 99% likely that, no, the gold thing was yet another classic Professor Layton decoy. If so, then this further suggests that there is no real magic going on in this story ... although it sure does beg the question of why people like Jean Greyerl would be convinced that they can indeed perform magic. So *shrug*, guess we'll find out.

Swapped partners: It's been kinda fun and rather neat to play with the Phoenix-Luke pair and now the Layton-Maya pair. This is the sort of stuff that crossovers are made for. I'm enjoying it.

The bell and the bomb: No idea what was going on there, I'll be honest. Other than that it's clearly meant to resemble magic but very probably is not magic.

The Shades: I am further confused by the Storyteller's agenda. Whether or not he's a god in this world, it's clear that he has immense influence over Labyrinthia's morals and laws. So like ... I don't understand why he would cultivate a society of fear and loathing towards witchcraft only to pull punches at the last second and not execute any of the witches for real. Like ... why do it? You could say, "For the story! To tell a compelling story!", but like ... I don't think that really justifies what he's putting this town through. ^^; Tearing apart families, ending years-long friendships, traumatizing the survivors ... all for the sake of a story? ^^;; I love a good story but this is far too much. There's no reason for the existence of the Shades: either they should all be dead or else they should never have been tried in court and sentenced to death to begin with.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 12:11 PM   #27
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Currently several minutes into Chapter 06. Not sure whether what I'm about to mostly discuss came from the end of 05 or the beginning of 06, so I suggest erring on the side of caution and not clicking until you're about ten minutes or so into Chapter 06.

Spoiler: show
The Great Witch: So we have someone calling herself the Great Witch but who freely admits she's not Bezella. $100 says that this is Darklaw. If so, it confirms my prediction way back when that 1) Darklaw was the leader of the current witches but 2) isn't Bezella. In any event, it's still unconfirmed who the Great Witch is, so for now we'll sit tight.

Bezella: Given that it seems increasingly likely to be revealed soon that Bezella is neither Eve nor Darklaw, I must reiterate my prediction that Bezella is probably Eve. We haven't seen Eve in a while now but it was recently revealed that she knows secret passageways through the courthouse. One could obviously chalk this up to Eve simply being a curious kitty who went exploring, but one could also ascribe it to Bezella knowing the town of Labyrinthia like the back of her hand.

Would not be surprised at this juncture if Bezella is revealed to be the Storyteller's wife and Espella's mother.

The Shades: Still unsure of what they're all about. It seems like they don't practice any magic yet they believe in it maybe? Kinda confusing, that, actually. When Barnham accuses the Great Witch of having cast magic to escape, the Shades unilaterally label Barnham a liar. Is it because he insults the Great Witch's honor? Or is it because he accuses her of actions they know to be impossible? It's not really clear. But in other conversations with the Shades, they seem to believe in magic? See, like I said: I really don't know what their deal is yet.

About the only thing that does seem clear is that the Shades likely consist of people removed from Labyrinthia -- not just executed witches but in some cases their victims as well. I'm expecting to find that the two bandits will soon be revealed to be amongst the Shades' number. I don't think we'll find Sir Belduke here though -- he, I get the impression, is truly dead.

Luke and Layton reunited: Cute.

Maya and Phoenix reunited: Much more awesome, though UGHHHGH it fell too short for either character of clearly supporting or refuting the claim that they have romantic feelings towards the other.

The ruins: Not sure what's going on here. I have a weak running belief that the ruins are of the first iteration of Labyrinthia but who knows.

The green potion: Not sure what this is either. Luke and Layton state that it has a familiar odor and specify that they recall it from before entering Labyrinthia. Can't really think of anything from the prologue that would match though. =\ Maybe it's rocket fuel to enable the witches to "fly"? ^^;
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 02:34 PM   #28
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Currently several minutes into Chapter 08.

Spoiler: show
Chapter length: Chapters 06 and 07 were each ridiculously short. I think 06 took me a leisurely single hour, and I know that 07 took me only half an hour.

Game length: The game is definitely entering into its final acts now. Makes me kinda sad. I'm glad to be nearing the ending since it means I can finally have my answers, but I'm sad because I have been having a fun time and I'll be sad to see it go.

There have only been 61 puzzles so far. (This includes ones that are hidden on the map but that the menu screen tells you are hidden. If there are others, I don't know of them.) There have also only been three court cases including the one I've just started, so putting it another way there have only been two court cases that I've completed. Sixty-one puzzles and two to three court cases for 80%+ completion ... yeah, that does make me kinda sad and does come as something of a surprise. I kept thinking that surely this game, like all the older Layton games I've played, would have at least 100 puzzles during Story Mode proper. Guess not.

Thing is, though, I can accept the fact that the game is a hybrid of the two franchises it pulls from and that it would've been impossible for them to keep it as a 30-hour game while having both five court cases and 100+ puzzles to solve. True to its nature as a hybrid title, it falls short of a pure Layton game if that's what you're after and it falls short of a pure PW game if that's what you're after but it affords a very nice balance of the two if that's what you're after. Kinda like saying, to use the Mario Kart analogy, that if PW is Bowser and Layton is Toad, then Vs. is Mario. If you're looking for a Toad game then you might be a little let down, and if you're looking for a Bowser game then ditto, but if you understood from the start that you were only ever going to get a game which was weak-Toad plus weak-Bowser, and it was the diversity that you were after, then you shouldn't have anything to be unhappy about. It's a fantastic hybrid of the two franchises.

Bezella: She still hasn't been conclusively revealed. My money is still on Eve the cat. We'll see.

Darklaw: It's been confirmed by Barnham and Darklaw that the Great Witch is Darklaw. So there's that -- "nailed it. " Now it just remains to be seen whether she's telling the truth about not being Bezella or not.

Storyteller: Everyone in town assumes he's been killed. I assume he survived the blast and is very much still alive somewhere. His prophecy had very careful word choice -- being "silenced" doesn't have to mean death and technically doesn't even have to mean being permanently silenced. It's quite possible that he's "silenced" by way of being knocked out for all of several hours and then is right as rain afterwards. We'll see.

The outdoor fire pit: Conspicuously built in very short time and in front of the entire town, this pit is likely to be the genuine article and not have a trap door or anything like that beneath it. Which means that when High Inquisitor Darklaw is more than likely dropped into it at the end of this case, she will for real be burned alive. Man.

The green potion: Still no idea what this is or what it does. We'll see.

Other previously-noted unsolved mysteries: Ditto. Still don't know the Shades' deal, still don't know whether any of this is really involving magic or not, still don't know the deal with being sucked into a book, etc. Guess we'll find out!
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2015, 10:34 PM   #29
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
For two days in a row now I've felt like I'm going to clear the game "tonight," but I haven't gotten to play too much recently. (An hour here, a half hour there.) Right now I'm in the part of Chapter 8 where ...

Spoiler: show
Phoenix solves a crystal riddle; and then we cut over to Layton and Luke at the tower.

Thoughts:

Spoiler: show
Belduke's daughter: The game hasn't so much as peeped about this topic since the end of Jean Greyerl's case. But I was thinking about it in the shower the other morning and figure I may as well offer my latest thoughts on it.

Of the many possibilities for who Sir Belduke's mysterious daughter could be, I believe the most likely candidates to be:
  • Espella
  • Darklaw
  • the mailwoman
  • Kira
I don't think it'd be Jean Greyerl, for what it's worth, because Belduke specifically separates in his last testament his thoughts on his daughter (Part I) from his thoughts on Jean Greyerl (Part II), and it would just be this really weird, plot twisty mindfuck for him to make such an artificial separation. (It'd be all the more weird in universe. At least out of universe we could make sense of it as a writer's "Gotcha! " moment. But in universe ... )

Of the four listed above, the mailwoman I feel like we can rule out because she's just such a minor character and hasn't featured in the story at all since then.

Kira's certainly a possibility but seems like a longshot to me.

This leaves us with Espella and Darklaw. Espella I've explored previously iirc: it'd be a situation where she's really Belduke's daughter, not the Storyteller's, and thus we now know why the Storyteller is putting "his own daughter" through such wretched misery. Darklaw I don't think I've gone into before, but I was thinking about it in the shower the other day and I feel like she's possibly the No.1 candidate at the moment. The reasons for a "Darklaw = Belduke's daughter" angle would be:
  • Darklaw simply looks like she has half the facial inheritance of Belduke. Similar looking eyes ... maybe a similar looking mouth or something, I dunno. Belduke has that really tall, narrow head shape that throws things off a bit, and his hair was solid white (vs. Darklaw's dusty purple), but I could easily see him being her father based on facial inheritance alone.
  • Belduke's suicide could possibly have some light shone on it by Darklaw's being the Great Witch and/or whatever her current schemes are.
I dunno. We'll see. Whether his daughter is Espella, Darklaw, Kira, or the mailwoman ... or whether it's someone completely different ... I'm sure we'll find out when everything is explained about what happened in between the Legendary Fire and our heroes' arrival in Labyrinthia.

Foxy: Right up until they revealed that Kira was hiding in the bell tower, I figured that Foxy for sure was the second witch. Even though her blonde hair appears to be artificially blonde (it's got that whole platinum tint to it), it's still blonde and style-wise at least it looks just like "Bezspella's" when she's shown casting Granwyrm. So who knows.

Now that they've shown Kira, though, I guess Foxy is just an attractive NPC rendered no-thank-you by her mild sadistic streak and her extremely masochistic followers' incessant adulations.

Eve: So I was stuck one time (as in, I had to put the game down here and pick it back up my next play session) with Eve the cat and how you're supposed to blindly press her. I was so convinced that you'd have to press her ... that is, until I pressed Espella on everything and Eve never had the "Buh-huh? " noise or thought-reaction. In between the play sessions I figured that maybe I just had to look for a visual cue by manually hovering over Eve, not relying upon the training wheels that the "..."s have been up through now. So I re-pressed Espella on everything and, line by line, would move my magnifying lens over to Eve to see if she had made any reactions at all. Nothing. So then in frustration I just said fuck it and pressed Eve on what I felt would be the most likely place for Eve to have had a reaction ... and of course that advances the game. orz Come on, Level 5! Don't do this to me!

Still standing by my theory that Eve is probably Bezella. We'll see! Oh -- and speaking of Bezella and of shower thoughts ...

Espella's mother: I don't recall if I've written about this previously but if not then here goes: I have entertained the possibility that a) Eve is Espella's mother and/or b) Bezella is Espella's mother. Regarding A, perhaps it explains why Eve has always been by Espella's side, watching over her, offering her emotional support. Regarding B, the names are obviously similar sounding -- Espella and Bezella -- and it could again offer some insight as to why Espella is so linked to the Legendary Fire.

The laser puzzle: Just reporting for the record that I totally had to confirm -- just to be safe! -- that this was an auto-lose scenario. I did not want to miss out on those 70 Picarats permanently!

The Vigilantes: Don't think I've commented on this either yet so here goes: lol @ the ridiculously large ten-person witness pool all taking the stand at once. A tongue-in-cheek climactic exploration of the game's "Hang On!" feature, to be sure. In the end, the execution wasn't nearly so scary as I had first imagined it might be. Would've been hell if they had had at least one of the ten going "Huh? " and being pressable in response to eeeeeeevery single line of initially pressed dialogue. But no: they didn't do that. Much, much more manageable than that.

My favorite of the Vigilantes is probably Mr. Shakey. Though I feel sorry for him, poor Shakey shake shakin' all the time. But yeah, he's probably my favorite of the bunch.

Last edited by Talon87; 05-07-2015 at 10:39 PM.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2015, 10:20 PM   #30
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Paused fairly early into the second half(?) of Chapter 09. Specifics of where I am / what I've seen in the first spoiler box below; discussion proper in the spoiler box after that.

Spoiler: show
If you've seen Professor Layton show up at the trial, press on.

Spoiler: show
If Darklaw has admitted to being Kira's attacker, press on.

Spoiler: show
If Darklaw has admitted to carrying Espella on her back -- and Eve too! -- then you're pretty close to where I am right now.

Spoiler: show
The elevator shaft puzzles: These were all really easy. ^^; I didn't notice any real increase in difficulty between the first and second puzzles, and the third puzzle honestly wasn't that much harder. I got them all within seconds of just looking at them. Not sure if it's just because I have the right brain for these specific kinds of puzzles or whether the game was padding young kids' egos by having Layton and Luke comment on the remarkable difficulty of the third puzzle. ^^;; Anyway ...

The sword fight puzzles: These were really hard! Or rather, I don't think I got a single one of them right on the very first try, much less 1cc'd the entire lot of them! The first one would've been the easiest to get right in one go, but I suffered the dual issues of 1) being caught off guard by the fact that the toy knight would quickly auto-execute all four attacks at once and 2) not being yet accustomed to the translation of the knight's physical movements to the static 2-dimensional artwork on the cards. These problems were removed for the second and third puzzles, but these puzzles ramped up the difficulty and I again failed to get them in one try. Hooray for no lost Picarats because yay training wheels for emotionally sensitive players! :'D #wereallwinners

The photograph: So, it's been revealed that Espella and Darklaw were childhood friends (or at least associates), if not perhaps even family. Given the nature of Belduke's letter to the Storyteller, I'm going to assume that the men were dear friends, not brothers, and thus the girls were the daughters of dear friends who, per their fathers' presumed interest in hanging out from time to time, would occasionally do stuff together.

As you can tell from the mental segue in the above paragraph (occurs at Line 2), I am also ready to conclude at this point that Darklaw is very likely to have been Belduke's daughter. It hasn't been outright confirmed yet, but now that I look at her face more in court I feel like it isn't so far off from Belduke's facial shape. I mean ... the illustration of Belduke made him seem like he had a really tall, narrow face! But even if that's so, it's not like Darklaw's face isn't exactly tallish and narrowish either. You can definitely see it: she has probably the tallest and narrowest face of the main characters drawn in the Ace Attorney style (i.e. Phoenix, Maya, Espella, Barnham, and Darklaw).

Photography and robots: And so, per the existence of the photograph and of the Storyteller's robotic knights, it has also been confirmed/revealed that Labyrinthia is connected with the world we know -- if not being very much a part of it. This is in keeping with the Professor Layton tradition of having a story seemingly framed in the supernatural early on only to be revealed later on to be an elaborate-yet-technically-possible case of the real world, no supernatural hijinx whatsoever.

Magic: The above stated, it's still not quite clear to me what's going on with magic here.
  • Can anyone do magic in this universe? Or is the entire concept of magic in Labyrinthia a sham? Assuming it is a sham ...
  • What's the explanation behind the Granwyrm spell?
  • What's the explanation behind Jean Greyerl believing herself capable of the Godoor spell?
  • What's the explanation behind the Goldor spell and specifically the golden goat Sir Belduke kept in his study?
  • What's the explanation behind our heroes having been sucked into a book?
  • What's the explanation behind the seemingly magical stone gateway found by Luke and Layton at the Tower of London?
  • What's the deal with Espella's glazed-over eyes every now and again?
  • What's up with Phoenix and Maya truly believing themselves to be baker's assistants and to have been such for a period of five years? And what's subsequently up with them then regaining their memories of the truth -- and forgetting the entire past five years -- soon after meeting Layton and Luke?
These questions and more are still nagging at me, begging for answers.

Professor Layton: the Last Inquisitor: Not too keen on this development, I'll be honest. ^^; I'm sure that Level 5 and Capcom intended it as the epic showdown between their respective franchise mascots, but the thing is ...
  1. Either the Professor isn't really giving this fight his all and is just giving Phoenix someone off of whom to bounce ideas, in which case the Professor is guilty of deceiving the court (a very ungentlemanly thing to do!) plus we have no reason to accept that Darklaw should have ever agreed to letting him stand in for her ...
  2. Or else the Professor is really giving this his all, in which case it's a done deal that Espella Cantabella is the Great Witch Bezella since the Professor keeps saying she is and, well, of course Professor Layton is never wrong. ... In which case, everyone who's been fighting for Espella this entire time is guilty of a crime most stupid both in universe and out.
Like, no matter how you look at it, it's bad. 1 is bad. 2 is bad. I prefer 1 in the end, I guess, and of course I think 1 is most likely given that Layton has been nothing but supportive of Phoenix this entire time and has never given us reason to believe he doesn't fight for Espella's well-being. But like ... given the anticlimax of already knowing that Espella is surely innocent, and given the queasy immorality of Layton playing prosecutor when he isn't really planning on doing anything else but cooperating with the defense attorney to help net the lawyer's client an acquittal ... it's just not the ending I would have liked, is all. ^^;

I feel like the development team was probably torn between these two ideas:
  1. have Layton and Phoenix cross swords in their very first meeting, one which happens to take place in court, where Layton is the prosecutor and Phoenix the defense attorney
  2. have Layton and Phoenix cross swords at the grand finale
and that they ended up going with B because they wanted the bigger spectacle at the finish. They probably felt that it would render the entire video game anticlimactic if you were to have Layton and Phoenix face off in Chapter 02 of the game and then Chapters 03 through 10 are just them being partners. But me personally, I would've rather had it the A way than the B way. The B way is just stupid, in my opinion, since it asks us to either accept that Layton would betray Phoenix in the eleventh hour (boo urns ) or else to accept that Layton isn't really taking his prosecutorial role seriously (also boo urns ).

I feel like this entire issue could've been avoided if only they hadn't been so determined to title this game Professor Layton Vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney. Alas.

The bell: Still not sure what the bell's deal is but if I had to guess then I'd guess that the ringing of the bell will bring about an end to Labyrinthia as we know it. It'll break whatever spell is currently affecting the townspeople and permit them to rejoin the real world as we know it. Something like that.

Kira: Poor Kira. I feel so bad for her since she seems to be so utterly mindfucked right now. Hopefully she'll get her mind back soon enough!
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2015, 08:30 PM   #31
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
So, I've reached what the game is calling the Epilogue -- more on that in just a second -- and I'm about ten or so minutes into it. It's hard to say really, and at this juncture I'm just going to have to ask that you click the spoiler box at your own risk rather than providing the nested spoiler tag clues since ... well, let's face it, a) I'm so near the end of the game anyway and b) there's been oodles of spoilerific information revealed and I really don't want to have to list it all off one by one to bridge the gap between my last post and this one.

But first ... that chapter identifier. "Epilogue," huh? HARDLY! I wouldn't call this a "pet peeve" of mine since it's not the sort of thing that happens with enough regularity to be considered such, but if it were a more regular occurrence for someone to confuse the word "epilogue" for "the last chapter of the tale" then it would definitely qualify as a pet peeve! UGH! How illiterate do you have to be to think that an epilogue -- a chapter which occurs after the main story has been wrapped up -- is the same thing as a final chapter -- i.e. the last chapter of the main narrative arc! How stupid do you have to be!? C'mon! This is ridiculous. It's not a fucking "epilogue" if we're still in the middle of the goddamn trial, no closure, no resolution, just in the middle of a conversation between the Inquisitor and the judge and then SUDDENLY EPILOGUE! No! That's not how this works! It would be an epilogue if, say, you wanted to end the main narrative on just such an abrupt note and then you fast forwarded us back to the protagonists' return to London or some such. It would be an epilogue if, say, we were fast forwarded weeks, months, or even years into the future and got to see how things had played out for people. But you can't very well call it an "epilogue" when it takes place literal seconds after where the previous chapter ended, in the exact same courthouse, from the exact same POV, and is by all accounts just the immediate continuation of the previous chapter! That's not an "epilogue"! That's another chapter!

I think the issue probably came about from the localization process. Some idiot on the translation team took 最終編 or similar -- "The Final Chapter" -- and mistranslated it as "Epilogue," not because he couldn't read the Japanese but because he doesn't fucking understand that for a chapter to be considered an epilogue we requirement more of it than it simply being the last chapter in the book!

Alright ... so ... pet peeve rant out of the way, let's talk Professor Layton Vs. Phoenix Wright, shall we?

Spoiler: show
Unfortunately, it's not going to get much better in here. ^^; I'm afraid that the ending has disappointed me in numerous ways. I'll try to keep it concise.

Magic: As suspected, the game ended up sticking with Professor Layton tradition and revealing that what had appeared to be a supernatural phenomenon was in fact the result of a natural cause or causes. But if previous Layton games have strained my suspension of disbelief to the limits, Versus goes beyond even breaking them -- it bypasses my suspension of disbelief altogether! By answering, "We used magic to stage magic." Let me run that by you one more time: "we used Magic A" ... "to make you think that we were doing Magic B." ... HOW IS THAT IN ANY WAY A SATISFYING ANSWER!? You can't just say to me, "Oh, that time Jean Greyerl thought she was opening a portal between rooms, what we really did was:
  • wear invisibility cloaks
  • ring silver bells that made her lose consciousness, taking advantage of a groundwater pollutant that causes this effect
  • modify the room to make it look like she had cast the Godoor spell, e.g. punch a hole through the wall to connect the two rooms
  • rouse her
  • hypnotically suggest to her {all that Jean testified she had done}, taking advantage of a plant substance that makes people incredibly impressionable and makes their memories incredibly plastic
... but we never cast any magic!" NO! You most certainly did make use of "magic"! Magic in the sense that in the real world we do not have flawless invisibility cloaks to be worn on one's person! Magic in the sense that in the real world there is no drug known to man which just so happens to make people not only incredibly susceptible to hypnotic suggestion but which also allows for their old memories to be suppressed and for new memories to be entered in in their place! Magic in the sense that fucking silver does not make people lose consciousness! C'mon, people! This is ridiculous! This isn't digging one hole to fill another -- this is digging ten holes to fill one other! So bad. So so bad. ^^;

Arthur Cantabella, President of Labrelum, Inc.: I don't generally say "lolwut," or at least not spelled like that, but god damn if this is not a "lolwut"-worthy moment. The Storyteller is revealed ... to be the CEO of a pharmaceutical company researching sedative-hypnotics. Holy shit, what is this. This is just ... absurd.

Team Dreamcrushers: I love how Layton and Phoenix are trampling over this company's ten-year drug trial all in the name of "the pursuit of truth." These participants all willingly signed up to be tested on, wanting to forget their previous lives because of one traumatizing reason or another. And while the witch trials are kinda scary, it's become painfully clear that the Storyteller never willed anyone to come to any serious harm. So you have a perfectly legal (... hmmmmmm ... ) drug trial going on ... and Phoenix and the Professor just happen to trip upon it ... and make it their personal mission to expose the truth to every single participant in the trial, thereby potentially ruining ten years' worth of research and build-up. Man. I get that we're supposed to be on their side for this one -- yay, truth! -- but man if I don't sympathize with the Storyteller. ^^;;

Darklaw the Pussy Villain: So ... rewinding by about a chapter, somewhere around the midpoint of Chapter 09 ... we have Darklaw admitting to being the Great Witch, to having been the one who attacked Kira, etc etc. This is all well and good ... except ... she does so when Phoenix is only halfway through the fight he'd normally be engaged in in other PW games. Like, in most other PW games, the antagonist will deny tooth and nail that they did it, that they're culprit, and they will keep pointing out implausible yet technically possible explanations for why they could be innocent in spite of Phoenix's findings/deductions. And it's not until the very end of the trial, where Phoenix presents the one final piece of evidence around which the culprit cannot circumnavigate, that they admit the truth. Yet here, with High Inquisitor Darklaw, Phoenix only begins to apply the pressure ten minutes or so into his grilling of Darklaw ... and then whammo, she admits to everything. Like, he had hardly cornered her yet. Persuaded the player he was right? Sure. But persuaded the townspeople he was right? Hardly. Darklaw could've still come up with explanations for why Phoenix was wrong about her, how his reasoning was specious, etc. But she didn't even try. She just throws in the towel, admits that everything he has supposed about her is correct, and even goes the extra mile of supplying him with further ammo that he didn't even have yet. Holy shit, most disappointing / anticlimactic final Phoenix Wright court case in the history of the Ace Attorney series.

I think I'm pretty darn close to the end now. Probably only another hour or so to go.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2015, 08:00 PM   #32
takkupanda
Charismagnetism
 
takkupanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Posts: 999
Send a message via Skype™ to takkupanda
One question I'd love answered about this game - how good is this game for someone who really loves the Ace Attorney series, and does not even know who Professor Layton is? I was considering going from AA4 straight to AA5 (which is also cheaper than PL vs PW :P) but I saw that Talon took a detour, and I'd like to know a few things before I make the purchase. :P
__________________
PASBL
TL2, 10W-3L-0T, 27 KO, 64 TP, 31.25 SP, B- Grade Ref

Fizzy Bubbles


Cable Club Trading List
takkupanda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2015, 08:14 PM   #33
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by takkupanda View Post
One question I'd love answered about this game - how good is this game for someone who really loves the Ace Attorney series, and does not even know who Professor Layton is? I was considering going from AA4 straight to AA5 (which is also cheaper than PL vs PW :P) but I saw that Talon took a detour, and I'd like to know a few things before I make the purchase. :P
I've delayed my wrap-up post for after I re-beat the game with 100% completion.* But I should say that I did beat the game weeks/months ago, maybe one to two days after I last posted in this thread. Overall I'd say it was a fun game, and to me was worth the purchase. That stated ...
  • If you come at the game as a Layton-only fan, then the game is pretty solid. It's predominantly a Layton game with PW aspects, like ... a Layton body wearing PW clothes, if that makes sense. Yes, the clothes are PW, but the body is still Layton. So Layton fans won't find themselves alienated by the game, and instead will likely be quite entertained by a change of "clothes."
  • If you come at the game as a PW-only fan, then I think the game might be kinda disappointing. Phoenix the character is amazing in the game -- and is arguably the star of the game, even moreso than Layton imo -- but sadly:
    1. there are no PW-style investigation segments (these are all replaced by Layton gameplay)
    2. and the courtroom segments are all rather unimpressive compared against the main PW series'
    The logic feels much less rigorous and much less refined in Vs. than it does in proper PW games. I'm not sure why this was the case, but unfortunately it is. None of the cases in Vs. are better than any of the other main series games' best cases. That's not to say that Vs.'s cases suck. They just ... aren't as good as what you're used to. ^^;
  • If you come at the game as a fan of both Professor Layton and Ace Attorney, as I did, then I think you'll find the game to be a mix of the two opinions above. It's a whole lot of fun getting to have the Flintstones meet the Jetsons, so to speak, and I really do love what they did in trying to merge the two worlds together game mechanics-wise and storytelling-wise. It may not be perfect, but it was a delight to play and remains a purchase I am not unhappy with having made despite very tight personal income.
So there you have it. Do you need to play this game before you hop over to AA5? No. At least, not story-wise or characters-wise. I think the most compelling reason to play the game prior to playing AA5 is what Kaisa told me about -- that AA5 does a lot of things better (graphics, gameplay, etc) and so if you were already planning on playing Vs. anyway then you're better off having your supper before your dessert instead of your dessert before your supper.

* I missed one puzzle during Story Mode, and unlike past games in the Layton franchise it looks like this one doesn't give you the chance to complete the puzzle from the start screen after you beat the game, so if you want 100% credit then you have to do it before beating the story. orz
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2016, 08:11 PM   #34
Whimsy
Dance till you're dead~
 
Whimsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Literally everywhere
Posts: 1,888
Send a message via Skype™ to Whimsy
Sorry for necroing an old thread but I've just started Layton vs Wright today and holy fluxx the cutscene at the start of the first witches trial was dark af. Like it was on some DR shit

Needed to get that off my chest. Game's feeling cool so far, maybe without savestates helping me I might actually git gud at trials before I play AA5
__________________


Spoiler: show
Fizzy Bubbles Profile/Whimlist/ASB/Wild Future
Inactive Ref, laziness op~

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost™ View Post
In Mother 3 Swampy was Flint and you were Hinawa. You two were a wonderful couple. Icarus was your dog, and Toy and I were your twin sons. Well, until a dinosaur impaled you through the heart. So yes, where is he!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Panda View Post
#still
#fucking
#salty


Whimsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2016, 09:26 PM   #35
Talon87
時の彼方へ
 
Talon87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whimsy View Post
Sorry for necroing an old thread but I've just started Layton vs Wright today and holy fluxx the cutscene at the start of the first witches trial was dark af. Like it was on some DR shit

Needed to get that off my chest. Game's feeling cool so far, maybe without savestates helping me I might actually git gud at trials before I play AA5
Hope you enjoy the game!

I posted about this in the AA5 thread, but I'll go ahead and repeat it here for posterity's sake -- about a month ago, I replayed the final portion of Vs. in order to get a 100% completion on the puzzles. (There were two I had missed, neither of which Lostelle has for you.) I could've used a walkthrough and just mashed buttons to breeze through it, but I actually sat down and re-played through the final n chapters again.

As AA games go, it has a novel concept (discussed below in spoiler box) that is really cool to explore at least once but which I wouldn't want to have around forever and ever. So Versus was really the ideal place for it, a chance for us to explore it once and then put it away.

As Layton games go, it has some fun puzzles and the story is incredibly Layton-esque.

Spoiler: show
The novel AA concept I mentioned is ...

Spoiler: show
having multiple witnesses take the stand all at once, and watching how certain ones of them react to others' testimony

It really, really fits the setting of a pre-Industrial witch trial.
Talon87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Video Games


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:50 AM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.