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Old 10-19-2013, 01:49 PM   #401
Talon87
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Legend of Korra Book 2 Episode 08:

Spoiler: show
Well ... they sure did answer my Rava & Vatu question! But not in the way I had hoped they would.
  1. Given the relationship between light and dark (Rava even mentions how it doesn't make sense to have a world in which only one of the two of them exist), I don't really like that the writers tried to go for the "we sealed evil away! " approach. They admit it themselves mere seconds later that, yeah, the seal doesn't really work since Vatu's evil presence is still felt in the human world, corrupting the hearts of men and sowing discord amongst nations. I think I would have preferred an ending where, thanks to Wan's noble sacrifice, Rava gains a lot of power again, grows equal in size to Vatu, and is able to restrain Vatu in eternal combat once more.
  2. Not really sure if I like the explanation that humans have the capacity to bend only one element at a time and that it's only by having a spirit with whom he can "exchange" which element he wants to bend with in any given second that Wan is able to control multiple elements. That stated, it obviously makes good sense that if this is the angle they're going for then Rava absolutely should be essential to entering into the Avatar State and (vice versa) why we never see Aang or Korra manipulating 2+ elements simultaneously except for when they're in the Avatar State. Juggling between them at the blink of an eye, sure, but doing that whole "sphere of elements" thing, no, that's strictly only ever been seen in the Avatar State iirc.
  3. Very disappointed that, according to this story, Rava and Vatu are such major, major parts of the Avatar's very being (Rava) and purpose for fighting (Vatu) and yet we never heard a peep about them during A:tLA. In other words ... I'm very disappointed by what feels like an enormously retconned backstory. ^^; It's clear that the creators didn't have this mythos in mind back when they penned A:tLA and it bugs me that we're finding out now that it's such a huge, huge deal. Why did Rava never come up when Aang went to train with the Guru? Why did Rava never come up during Roku's backstory? Why did Rava have such an intimate relationship with Wan but with every other Avatar we've ever met it doesn't even seem like they acknowledge her existence? Obviously: because the writers just invented her this season. But that annoys me. Very sloppy.
That stated, I definitely enjoyed the Legend of Zelda vibes I got from the team of Wan, Mula, and Rava, I definitely liked Rava as a character, and I definitely loved the backstory in isolation from the rest of the franchise.

Seeing Wan's spirit friends massacre his human friends was pretty dark for a kids show. O_o ^^;

I don't really appreciate / understand why the spirits were sent back to the Spirit Realm as though it were the proper place they belonged and they weren't allowed to call the human realm home anymore. Why? Because I don't understand why they had to go back when that world looked like it was a tiny death arena where the Great Satan was sealed inside of a dead tree. Seriously, it was very strange to me to see that the spirits were all so happy to go back there. Yeah, I get that the spirit world is where they all originated, but it's not like they were terrorizing humanity left and right. They co-existed pretty decently, in some cases fighting against each other (like with the city the proto-Fire Nation came from) but in other cases living together in peace (like with the air nomads). And the spirit realm looks like such a desolate wasteland that ... yeah.

Wan's fight against Vatu was really entertaining to watch. Only because it was a kids show did I know that Vatu would be defeated in the end. (Well, that and the fact that we haven't been having 10,000 years of darkness this past cycle. ) Were it not for that, the events totally set up very cleanly for Wan knowing that he was going to his death but still going anyway because not giving up was the right thing to do even if, at that juncture, it was a lost cause. The fight itself was beautiful to watch.

Why would Unalaq want to release Vatu upon the world once again? What is he, Satanic?

I don't really understand why Rava and Vatu are lesser beings to the lion-turtles. Like, it seems like the lion-turtles weren't corruptible by Vatu, didn't give a shit about what he was doing, were way more powerful than Rava, etc. Seemed very strange to me. Because shouldn't it be the other way around? Shouldn't the lion-turtles be sort of like Kyogres and Groudons but Rava and Vatu should be like Dialga and Palkia? I mean, after all, they're the living embodiments of light and dark, of peace and chaos. Don't those entities surpass lion-turtles? Apparently not. ^^;

Despite everything I've written above, I really enjoyed this episode. Both of these episodes, actually. Very exciting to watch, will almost certainly re-watch them before they're taken down ... just good stuff. Yeah, they weren't perfect (see above ^^; ) but it was practically impossible not to like Adult Wan and to cheer for him throughout his trials.
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Old 10-19-2013, 04:31 PM   #402
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I didn't like Episode 7 so much, but Episode 8 was very good.

Spoiler: show
As origins go for the first Avatar, it wasn't that good of a start. He was a thief who abused a gift from the Turtle Lions. What? What kind of origin is that?

But everything after the Vatu/Rava stuff was pretty neat. Wan's redemption for his mistake is now his burden for all lifetimes as all the avatars.

Also, I still want to see Grandpa Zuko. Come on already!


I was going to write more, but Talon covered it.
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Old 10-19-2013, 04:44 PM   #403
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Regarding your last comment in your spoiler box, Loki ...

Spoiler: show
Part of me wonders if they're holding off on revealing Timeskip Zuko to us because they haven't decided yet what to do about his scar. One of those "damned if you and damned if you don't" things, I imagine, since there's probably a whole bunch of fans who would be angry if Katara or other skilled waterbenders never bothered to bless Zuko with the healing properties of the North Pole's koi pond's waters and at the same time probably a bunch of fans who would be angry if Zuko were healed since that to them places too much value on physical appearances, invalidates some of what makes Zuko an appealingly tragic character, and/or sends kids the wrong message about how to cope with physical losses. I dunno. People gonna complain no matter what they do so they should just pick one and give us Zuko. But yeah, I really do wonder if this might have something to do with why they haven't allowed us to see him yet.

As for your first and second comments ...

Spoiler: show
@first comment: yeah, that was sort of my feeling too at first. But I ended up liking it since I felt Wan grew into a Roku-like man (even if that wasn't how he started out) and Roku's always been a personal favorite. But yeah, kind of an ignoble birth for the whole Avatar situation. ^^; "I STOLE FIRE FROM THE GODS! "

@second comment: wow, I hadn't even really thought about it that way before. I really, really like that. Even if -- again! -- it's surprisingly dark for a children's television show. ^^; But yeah, the moment Wan interfered with Rava's and Vatu's fight ... he basically signed up for the eternal rumble, no matter how awful of a burden that might be. In hindsight, that actually lends an interesting twist to Rava: while I had interpreted her initial hostility towards Wan as sincere (you know, when she was telling him "I don't want your help! Go away!" first after he interfered with her fight and then again later when they crossed paths at the air nomads' village), I now have to wonder if she wasn't, as the embodiment of light and peace and thus (presumably) a compassionate, loving being ... if she wasn't trying to spare Wan from his fate. Man. :o
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:50 AM   #404
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Legend of Korra Book 2 Episodes 07 and 08:

Spoiler: show
I was talking to AK2 about these episodes and was trying to remember the name of the animal that Raava and Vaatu reminded me of. Could only keep thinking "platyhelminthes". Couldn't remember planaria. Enjoy this video, as well as this one of Japanese TV show hosts freaking out over planarial regeneration.
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:16 AM   #405
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Legend of Korra Episode 7 and 8:
Spoiler: show
Overall I really liked these two episodes. My thoughts are very similar to Talon's and Loki's.

On to some predictions.

I don't consider these spoilers, since I have no verification, so here they are:

1st: During that "bonding" time between Ravu and Vatu, I predict that Unulaq will try to embody Vatu and become an Anti-Avatar.

2nd: Korra will face off against Unulaq. Unulaq will be killed by Vatu, and Korra will then have to face off against Vatu himself.

Some things I noticed:

>Spirit World

In AtLA, when Aang visits the spirit world, it is nothing like that. Maybe there is another separate dimension that isn't a barren battlefield.

>First avatar

Ok, I think that this is a big error. I remember in AtLA in some flashback there was mentioning of the first avatar, a waterbender. I could be wrong, but who knows.
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:28 AM   #406
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S2E7 and S2E8:

Spoiler: show
I liked these episodes but the only thing that bothered me was the origin of bending. In A: TLA, didn't they say people learned to bend from various animals that could bend (e.g. airbending from bisons, earthbending from badger moles, etc)? Or something to that effect? But now it seems like it was just given and taken away from Lion Turtles, which also makes sense due to the energybending stuff that Aang was doing late in the original series. I don't know.
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Old 10-20-2013, 10:57 AM   #407
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@ Tdos

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I remember that as well. I assumed that at the end when the Lion Turtles said they would never give anyone element bending again, humans then learned it from the animals.
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Old 10-20-2013, 11:09 AM   #408
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I had completely forgotten about that.

Legend of Korra Book 2 Episodes 07 and 08:

Spoiler: show
I think the reason for the retconned origin of how humans gained the ability to bend was this: the writers wanted/needed some sort of explanation for how only certain members of the human species can bend no matter how hard they might try. Even going back to the original series, it'd been established that bending was a hereditary thing: some people inherited it, others didn't, but you generally would never see a bender born to a family of non-benders. There are no "muggles" in the A:tLA universe, basically. All the benders we've ever seen have had bending parents and/or grandparents. This hereditary nature of bending carried on over to Korra Season 1, naturally, and was part of the reason why the Equalists felt screwed.

But that doesn't not fit in with the animal origin of bending. It can fit. So why the retcon? Well, because if we go by the whole idea of ancient peoples learning to bend from animals in nature, it's a bit murkier than the surgically clean retconned version. With animals teaching humanity how to bend, you have to wonder:
  • why can't people learn to bend more than one element at a time?
  • why can people only learn how to bend one specific element? why is that element geographically located? Why don't we see people dotted all over the world knowing how to do each of the four types of bending? Why do we have a "Fire Nation", an "Earth Kingdom", etc?
  • how does the story of learning from the animals (A:tLA Book 2) reconcile with the story about energybending being the forefather of elemental bending (A:tLA series finale)?
Rather than retcon the lion-turtle material from the season finale, I guess they decided to retcon Toph's stories about the badger-moles, Zuko's stories about the dragons, and Aang's stories about the sky bison instead. (Also: lol @ how the waterbenders never really had an animal to fit with their origin tale. ^^; )

This is just one more reason why what I said yesterday feels so true: as a stand-alone tale, 07 and 08 were excellent, but as a canon origin tale for the franchise, I'm just so disappointed by how sloppy it is, with just how much it contradicts previously-established aspects of the Avatar universe.
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Old 10-20-2013, 02:17 PM   #409
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S2 E7/8
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Wan is awesome, boo for having to go back to Korra. Maybe she won't be as much of a bitch now.

Overall I really really liked the Origin story. Even thought the whole stealing fire thing was alright because it was obviously just a nod to Prometheus. There are still a whole mess of things that aren't clear, most of which you guys have already said. Retcons are sad. They are relying too heavily on energybending imo. Got major Studio Ghibli vibes from the spirit creatures and familiar in these episodes - esp. Spirited Away (spirits) and Princess Mononoke (cat-deer, and now that I think about it, Wan's whole trying-not-to-choose sides thing and the corruption of otherwise good spirits).
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Old 10-20-2013, 05:39 PM   #410
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Like Talon I wasn’t really too sure until about 10 minutes in but it’s safe to say EP 07 and 08 definitely the best two episodes of TLOK we’ve had so far. I just got a lot of “Avatar: The Last Airbender” vibes that we haven’t had with this new series.

Spoiler: show
At first I didn’t think I was going to warm up to Wan. If the first scene where he’s being chased out of town by a group of swordsmen didn’t scream Disney’s Aladdin I don’t know what did (“You’re dead, Wan!” “Really? Because I actually feel quite alive” ). I guess I still wasn’t a huge fan of him really until he started living with the spirits and as he grew older and nobler I really started to realise how awesome he was.

I imagine if they can do this to Wan they could just as easily do it to Korra. I can kind of see where people like Amras are coming from when they criticise her but I try not to get involved as it’ll put me off the show when I generally don’t have any problems with it – which is the main reason I didn’t discuss last week’s episode even though it was my favourite of the season up until this week. In the brief moment AmneasiaKorra met herself before meeting the other avatars (it was really short; the dialogue went “who am I?” “You are the avatar”) she seemed far more mature and avatar-like. I think the reason they’re making Korra so rash is because there’s no other way they can develop her character. She can already bend all the elements, what else would you have her do throughout the next 3 seasons?

Anyway, back to the episode in question

Things I liked:
The monkey spirit. He was another character I didn’t warm to straight away, thanks mostly to Brad Dee Baker’s spider monkey voice which wasn’t helped by his spider monkey appearance. I really enjoyed when he jumped into that guy from the fire village’s body though because it just seemed so sinister. I liked him from then on and I hope there’s more spirits like him that aren’t just pure good or pure evil.

The Airbender tattoos. I was really struggling to work out how anything had progressed between Wan’s time and Aang’s time as all the buildings and outfits kind of looked the same. But this was a nice little touch to show we were a lot further back than 100 years. I also liked how the Air Nomads lived with the spirits unlike any of the other villages - it was a great nod to how the air benders are a lot more spiritual than any of the other cultures in Avatar.

The fight scene at the end. It’s definitely the best fight we’ve had since Aang vs. Ozai and I definitely got a few similar vibes (the “this is your prison now and I will close the spirit world so no human will ever be able to physically enter the spirit world and release you” speech Wan gave had the exact same background music as the “I’ve taken away your bending so you won’t be able to hurt anyone” speech Aang gave). The one thing I’ve been complaining about since Korra began is the lack of good fight scenes so this was definitely a standout moment for me.

Killing people. First the weird tree man then all of Wan’s old friends. I absolutely LOVE how Avatar is able to do this when most cartoons shy away from it. It brings a real level of realism to the show and in this episode it showed us just how evil Vaaku really is. I’m so glad we’ve got him as our new big bad as Amon and Unalaq didn’t really do anything for me. Now let’s move onto the

Things I didn’t like:
The art style. I understand that the whole point of using oil painted backgrounds was to set the scene 10,000 years ago but I wasn’t a huge fan. It made the bending look too cartoon-y and the Lion Turtles looked awful compared to the one we saw in A:TLA. It could have been much worse, but I just think the episode would have been better with the amazing Korra-style animation we’ve had for the past two seasons.

How accidental the birth of the Avatar actually is. We’ve always been led to believe that the avatar was some all-powerful being created to bring balance to the world whilst being made human so he/she wasn't detached from the people living in it. This was kind of thrown out of the window and the only time I’m going to admit there’s a retcon as I completely disagree with the above arguments. I liked this origin story a lot, but now it kind of seems like the avatar wasn’t even created for a purpose and the world probably doesn’t even need one as it wasn’t that worse off before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Legend of Korra Book 2 Episode 08:
[*]Very disappointed that, according to this story, Rava and Vatu are such major, major parts of the Avatar's very being (Rava) and purpose for fighting (Vatu) and yet we never heard a peep about them during A:tLA. In other words ... I'm very disappointed by what feels like an enormously retconned backstory. ^^; It's clear that the creators didn't have this mythos in mind back when they penned A:tLA and it bugs me that we're finding out now that it's such a huge, huge deal. Why did Rava never come up when Aang went to train with the Guru? Why did Rava never come up during Roku's backstory? Why did Rava have such an intimate relationship with Wan but with every other Avatar we've ever met it doesn't even seem like they acknowledge her existence? Obviously: because the writers just invented her this season. But that annoys me. Very sloppy.
Of course the creators didn't have this mythos in mind back when they penned A:tLA. They created that show with a very clear story in mind that was Aang vs. the Fire Nation. I guess they could’ve explained it in the original series but they didn’t mention how the avatar spirit was created once so I don’t think it contradicts anything. The fact that the Guru or Roku or any of the other characters from the series didn’t mention Rava was likely because they didn’t know about her. This all happened 10,000 years ago and the other waterbending avatar said she’d have to look deep inside herself to find out the truth. I don’t think they outright contradicted anything in this episode so I wouldn’t call it a retcon. I guess I’d compare it to the original and the prequel Star Wars trilogy. Sure, George Lucas probably hadn’t thought of half of the stuff from the prequels before penning the original Star Wars films but I wouldn’t consider episodes 1, 2 and 3 retcons. Then again, if Rava starts to appear all the time now I'd consider it some slight retconning

As for the animals being the original benders they actually paid tribute to that in this episode when Wan learned how to properly firebend by doing the dragon dance. Whenever the A:TLA said that Dragons/Sky Bison/Badger Moles were the original benders I always thought it meant exactly that - not that they actually bestowed their powers onto non-benders so that they could bend.
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Old 10-20-2013, 06:58 PM   #411
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S2EP07/08:
Spoiler: show
Just a short post to agree with Emp; the story of the first avatar/the origins of bending/lion-turtles happened so long ago that even myth has long since faded and no-one knows anything about it any more. The only way one could find this information now is how Korra did (and the other protracted Avatar memory sequence I remember involving being in a specific spot on a specific day). Maybe no-one ever knows for some reason (like no Avatar before Korra having to do anything about it and it probably posing a major distraction from what the Avatar should be focussed on). Maybe each Avatar is eventually told by consultation with a past life but Aang (being six years shy of when most Avatars are even told they're the Avatar) hadn't got this yet and it was considered a lower priority than stopping the fire nation genocide. I suspect even the temple priests know nothing more than "really important you get each Avatar in this spiritual pool at some point, guys".

Also throwing out the speculation that Unalaq has been deceived by Vatu exactly as Wan was when he separated them.
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Old 10-20-2013, 08:34 PM   #412
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Laughing at your blanket dismissal of the majority of the criticisms that have been raised, emp. At least you're honest about the fact that you've got your head in the sand. ("I can kind of see where people like Amras are coming from when they criticise her but I try not to get involved as it’ll put me off the show when I generally don’t have any problems with it.")

As for theories on Unalaq, I was talking with AK2 about this and I like his take best:

Legend of Korra Book 2 Episode 08:

Spoiler: show
When I shared with AK2 the view I'd shared here earlier -- "What is Unalaq? Satanic? O_o" -- he answered that he didn't think Unalaq was a Vaatu worshipper. I asked him if he thought Unalaq wanted to become "the anti-Avatar", merging with Vaatu the same way Wan merged with Raava. He said no to that too. Then I asked him if he thought Unalaq was being manipulated by Vaatu. He rejected that as well and said, paraphrased:

"I just think Unalaq's conceited. Conceited enough to think that he is powerful enough to bring Vaatu under his control."

No mind control. No devil worshipping. Just pure, simple conceit. A conceited belief that he's the best -- better than his brother (and thus more deserving to be chieftain), better than Tenzin, better than his niece -- and that he can do what Wan could not.

I'm not sure whether he'll prove right or not, but I know that I like his theory best. It's the least cliche -- the "Oh no, I was being mind controlled by evil! D:" one being one of the worst in this regard -- and it's also the most human or the least supernatural. There's no Disney's Jafar here hoping to become the Evil Genie. There's no lusting after Korra's role as Avatar like most of us were predicting as early as the season premiere. There's just pure conceit, this smug confidence that he can do it, that he can do what the Avatar could not.

That stated, I think that the most likely outcome right now is:

Spoiler: show
An A:tLA universe clone of the relationship between Saruman and Sauron in The Lord of the Rings. Unalaq is the Saruman character, someone who is ostensibly serving the greater evil entity and who both:
  1. secretly harbors a desire to surpass his benefactor
  2. is unknowingly being corrupted from within by his dark employer and is in no way, shape, or form going to ever be anything more than his servant
Unalaq, like Saruman, probably desires power from Vaatu but also secretly plans to betray Vaatu and become ruler of the world himself. Meanwhile Vaatu is like "lol yeah right , just keep playing into my hands, puny human " and, much like Sauron in LotR, is paradoxically super-powerful yet super-impotent.

Agreeing with those of you who imagine Unalaq is going to have a scene where he "snaps out of it" and is all like, "Where am I? What have I done? " If the writers end up going this route, it won't be the least bit surprising if Uncle Unalaq and his two creepy children end up joining Team Avatar in the fight for their world's survival.

However, would also not be surprised at all if Unalaq is merely carted off to prison and we never see him again. Or, worse still (for him), if he's consumed by Vaatu and that's the last we ever see of Uncle Unalaq.

In completely random news: apparently Serena Williams provided the voice of the elder sage in these episodes. O_o

Last edited by Talon87; 10-20-2013 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 10-20-2013, 11:12 PM   #413
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Now I wonder if that elder sage was Ming...
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:18 AM   #414
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Nothing really interesting happened in this episode so I’m not going to discuss that much.

EP09 Spoilers

Spoiler: show
The Good
The scene where Unalaq, Desna and Eska they were trying to open the portal. I liked how one of them got hurt and then the sister had to choose between her father and saving her brother. Although it was very clichéd and we’ve already had a lot of bad dads in this series it was cool that Unalaq didn’t care about whether his own son died or not. Just shows how cold he is and how he probably is a devil/vaatu worshiper. He still doesn’t hold a candle to Azula though.

The Bad
The Republic City storyline. Nothing interesting is happening there at all. I did like the Sting episode but I honestly couldn’t care less if Varrick is a villain, whether Mako or Asami will be together (I swear they’re just trying to make him unlikeable by having him kiss Asami without giving Korra a second thought) or whatever stupid things Bolin is doing. Chief Beifong is an idiot for arresting Mako. I feel like they’ve wiped her memory of the last season’s events because she doesn’t feel like part of Team Avatar at all anymore.

The Tenzin spirit world storyline. Nothing interesting happened here at all and I’m really growing tired of Tenzin’s brother and sister. The “Welcome to the ‘I disappoint dad’ club” comment by Bumi really annoyed me. The Aang we knew wouldn’t grow up to be such a bad parent. He wouldn’t have been disappointed about having a non-bender as a son having met amazingly skilled non-benders like Sokka, Suki and Jet, and it just really pisses me off that they just say it so outright especially after I thought we’d resolved all this dysfunctional family crap a few episodes ago. Please can Kya and Bumi just go away? Actually I’d like it if the Big Bad killed them off in the finale.

Predictions
EP10
The next episode will consist of lots of spirit world antics. Korra and Unalaq will eventually meet in the spirit world. Since Korra is not in her physical body she won’t be able to fight or close the spirit portal. Unalaq will take Jinora hostage or find some other way to force Korra to meet him in the spirit world in person.

EP11-12
Korra will go to the spirit world in person at the Harmonic Convergence. Mako, Bolin and Asami will come too so the whole gang will be reunited. Korra is forced to open the other portal. Korra somehow manages to defeat Unalaq and everything is back to normal except… she somehow inavertedly releases Vaatu who kills Unalaq and becomes the big bad for the next two seasons. When they return to the human world there's dark spirits causing chaos everywhere and the gang release that the real battle has only just begun.

Crazy-wild-not-gunna-happen-prediction
Korra and Mako get back together at the end of the season. Asami is heartbroken again and Vaatu tricks her into fusing with him and creating an Anti-Avatar. I seriously don't like the idea of an Anti-Avatar but it would make sense that if the Raava could fuse with a human then Vaatu could too. The reason I didn't predict Unalaq as a candidate for becoming the dark avatar is because he just isn't interesting enough. Asami has one of the best character designs of the series and it'd be really cool if they could develop her character further than being some lovesick pushover.
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:10 AM   #415
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Haven't watched the ep yet, but I've noticed a trend in this season. They've developed this bad writing habit of having episodes that are all plot advancement without any major story events occurring. They just step forward the story in little bits and pieces so by the end of the episode things have progressed but you don't feel like anything happened.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:42 PM   #416
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I'm trying to watch the latest episode on Nick.com but for some reason I can't make it past the 9-minute mark (where the episode breaks for its first commercial break). Anyone else having this problem? Know what I can do to fix it? :\

As for what I've seen so far ...

Legend of Korra Book 2 Episode 09 first nine minutes:

Spoiler: show
Disappointed by what a terrible sales pitch Mako gave both Asami and Bolin when he attempted to share with them the news that Varrick is a bad guy. It's pretty obvious from how he bungled it that, IRL, the writers needed him to bungle it because they don't want Asami or Bolin on Mako's side just yet but they also needed him to plant the seed of doubt in their minds for later use. But good lord was it still a poor performance in-universe. He could've easily, easily fetched the detonator from the police department, shown it to Asami and Bolin and asked "Do you know what this is?", Asami would've been like "Yeah, it's the detonator you said the terrorists used," and then Mako would've been like "Follow me" and taken them backstage and shown them the detonators being used on Bolin's set. Super easy. But no. He gives a really weak-ass oral argument and only once it's too late and he's lost both of his confidants' trust does he begin to explain the connection with the detonators. And even then he still doesn't do what I just described. He still resorts purely to oral arguments instead of showing them the physical evidence.

Hey look! It's Stupid Meelo again! Next!

The deal with Jinora and the rabbit-insect spirits has been handled kinda darkly humorously so far. The writers are basically portraying Jinora like a stereotypical teenager who has just developed schizophrenia and her family members like the family members of someone who has. ^^;

I'm glad that it was finally brought up again that you needn't use the spirit portals at the North and South Poles to enter the spirit world. ^^; They may make it easy but they're by no means strictly necessary, as we already witnessed in Avatar: the Last Airbender.

I don't know what it was, but when I saw Unalaq and his children staring out over the spirit world, I suddenly had a realization: I bet that Unalaq is going to wind up transmogrified by the ayeaye spirit from the Avatar Wan episodes. Can't believe I didn't think of that until just now, but now it seems so obvious. If it doesn't happen, I won't be too surprised, but I'll just say this: I'll be more surprised to see it not happen than I will to see it happen. It feels like what we witnessed in Episode 07 was setup for a season finale moment where, after Unalaq is defeated / as he is being defeated, the ayeaye spirit jumps into his body and mutates him the same way he mutated that one hunter. EDIT: I forgot to mention this after having seen the rest of the episode earlier today, but I do want to say now that I'm not as convinced this will happen as I was when I was only nine minutes into the episode. See the continuation of this note in the next spoiler box.

Not much else to say for right now. I mean, I am only nine minutes in. Episode still hasn't resumed playing though and nothing I do to try and fix that works. Have tried refreshing and bringing the time back to 8:50. Have tried refreshing and dragging it to 9:10. Have tried just patiently waiting. (The entire time I wrote this post, that's what I was doing.) Nothing works.

EDIT: I ended up watching the rest of the episode through a friend's help. It worked this week, but I'm hoping that whatever messed up on Nick.com will be fixed by next week.

Legend of Korra Book 2 Episode 09 remainder:

Spoiler: show
It could not be any more obvious that the two mustachioed cops are bad guys if the writers tried to make it so. Mako being arrested is a disappointing setback but here's hoping that he manages to bust out of jail and/or be freed by someone else in the next episode or two.

Oh look: Unalaq serves Vaatu. What a surprise.

Oh look: Eska isn't such a bad person after all and will presumably be joining Team Avatar at some point. What another big surprise. (But seriously: yay! )

The angle they went with Jinora and Tenzin -- where Tenzin's been trying all his life to accomplish something that his daughter can effortlessly do -- was an interesting one for a kids show, but I feel like it was kinda amateurish in its execution. Could've been written a lot better. And I really would've appreciated it if they didn't have us go through the entire emotional arc in just half an episode: that arc could've easily covered two episodes and, in the right writing hands, might have been better for it.

Even worse was how they depicted Korra's command of spiritual powers. First her spiritbending, which we're told expositionally she "learned from Unalaq" even though we never saw him teach her beyond the cursory introduction she received in Episode 02. It was as disappointing as the beginning of Return of the Jedi where Luke Skywalker just shows up out of nowhere, already a Jedi Master, and we're asked to accept that it happened off camera. No. No, no, no, no, no! >_< You must show character growth on camera if it is to be believed and cared about. You cannot, MUST NOT have growth take place off camera. Some growth, yes. Make use of time lapses and such, sure. No one's saying we need to watch 3 years' worth of footage to follow along with a hero's training in the mountains for 3 years ... but good God, you've got to at least show us some substantial footage of training. I dunno, I just ... was really taken aback by how proficient Korra already is at spiritbending without even entering into the Avatar state. Seemed so dumb. The second thing I didn't like was how she and Jinora entered the spirit world together. The show made a big deal of implying that Korra needed a spirit guide to enter the spirit world because of her weak connection to the spirits, her lack of training, etc. Seemed to be the whole reason she came to Tenzin for help in the first place. But when push comes to shove and she and Jinora actually sit down and enter the spirit world ... Korra enters into the Avatar state. What? If she's gonna do that, why not just ... enter the spirit world herself as the Avatar? The whole idea with the Avatar state is that you gain the collective powers of all of your past lives. Are we seriously supposed to believe that Korra cannot, when in the Avatar state, channel Aang's and other spiritual Avatars' powers and enter the spirit world all on her own? Bullshit. I would've much preferred it if they hadn't shown Korra entering the Avatar state at all. Then it would've been easier to accept why Jinora was necessary. As it is, I just ... yeah, this feels like poorly thought-out writing.

EDIT: Regarding the Unalaq transformation I predicted earlier, I'm not so sure the series will go there now. It still could! But what we need to decide one way or another is some more information on the Unalaq-Vaatu relationship. Obviously they appear to have a relationship which mirrors that of a master (Vaatu) and a servant (Unalaq), but what isn't clear are the specifics of that relationship. Is Unalaq operating under his own free will or has he been hypnotized / entranced? Has Vaatu poisoned Unalaq's heart and mind the way he did the spirits in Wan's story, or has he done no such thing and Unalaq is just genuinely an asshole (as depicted in the scene with Desna getting injured and needing urgent medical attention). If it turns out that Unalaq is under some sort of spell or influence of Vaatu's (similar to what Wan's spirit friends experienced), then I think it's a safe bet that he's going to have one of those "Ughhhhh ... wha-what happened? Where am I? ....... Oh no, what have I done? D:" moments and will then join Korra in her fight against Vaatu. In such a scenario, having Unalaq be punished by the ayeaye spirit is not likely. However, if instead Unalaq is revealed to be 100% operating under his own free will and if he has no regrets about trying to release Vaatu from his prison, then I think that it's game back on for the transmogrification prediction. Only time will tell.

Last edited by Talon87; 11-02-2013 at 09:51 PM. Reason: added in some additional thoughts
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Old 11-02-2013, 03:46 PM   #417
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Spoiler: show
I really like the Tenzin parts, and Korra not being awful, but the rest of this episode was pretty meh. Spiritbending stuff was definitely jarring. Mako x Asami = wtf. Etc etc etc

Btw Talon, I think you're misrepresenting RotJ a bit, but I get your point. Very similar. Until this episode I was under the impression that she was able to spiritbend before because she was in the Avatar state and one of the previous Avatars had learned how to do it.
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Old 11-04-2013, 07:16 AM   #418
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S2EP09:
Spoiler: show
Korra's not a massive bitch! Yay!

Mako's firm grip on the idiot ball this episode made me sad, although not as sad as Tenzin getting dumped on again. The show writers seem to have a bit of a hate-on for Tenzin.

On the subject of Aang's poor parenting, it's hardly a surprise is it? If nothing else he was the Avatar; he had all sorts of things to go deal with all the time which would've had to take priority over his children. Beyond that he was always consistently pretty guilty over the whole my-people-are-extinct thing and held Airbender culture incredibly highly (to the point of disagreeing with the previous Airbender Avatar over whether his duties were more important than his cultural values and taking a massive gamble on the fate of every living person in the earth kingdom in order to stick to them).

Nice guy? The nicest. At all surprising that he'd focus on his only Airbender child ahead of the other two, and put massive pressure on said child? Not at all. Tenzin feeling massive pressure from Aang to carry on the Airbender legacy and Kya and Bumi feeling marginalised by their father unequally dividing his attention (because he wanted to y'know save his culture from extinction) is completely predictable. Aang was pretty fantastic but being a great Avatar, a great Airbender and a great father are likely to sometimes be mutually exclusive things.

Honestly I'm impressed they had the balls to take that path rather than gloss over and pretend like Aang was perfect in every way.


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Old 11-04-2013, 10:03 PM   #419
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So I apparently never posted. Anyways.

Episode 9
Spoiler: show
I liked this episode for a few reasons, but disliked it for a few as well. You can see these by looking above for the most part, though I'm more intrigued by the Jinora/Tenzin thing rather than angered. I have some questions though:

Why was Jinora chosen? Is it just some random coincidence for her to be a sort of prodigy?

If airbenders used the temples and had a statue of Wan in it, why was he so forgotten?

Why is Mako so stupid? Honestly, he's been pretty intelligent so far, and now he seems to have hit a mind block that makes him pitch ideas like a 4 year old wanting candy. Not so much of a question but rather an observation. I'm excited for next week, as I expect some major plot development.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:31 PM   #420
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Legend of Korra Book 2 Episode 10 - first ten minutes:

Spoiler: show
So, I'm ten minutes into the episode so far ... and I gotta say, with this one episode, I feel like the writers have lost my vote for good. A:tLA > LoK, end of debate, no more discussion necessary. Why? Because two disastrously bad cameos, that's why.

First, the less bad cameo: Wan Shi Tong, the owl spirit who was head librarian of the library we saw in Book 2 of Avatar: the Last Airbender. To be honest, I had no problem with this cameo whatsoever ... until he opened his mouth. The idea of people in the future running into the librarian in the spirit world is a slightly fun one, I'll admit, and handled properly it could be a real, real treat. Unfortunately, handling things properly doesn't seem to be in the writers' dictionary this week. What they have in there instead are such delightful entries as desecration and insulting the past. Good lord. The Korra writers just completely trample over the librarian's character for little more than some Bolin jokes.
  1. Wan Shi Tong is supposed to be a true philosopher, a lover of knowledge. Yet when Jinora tries to share with him the theory of electromagnetic radiation, Tong silences her with all the decorum of a redneck who believes the only good science in this world is automotive engineering. Like, seriously: she's trying to share knowledge with you and you shut her up? What sort of philosopher are you?
  2. Likewise, Tong is not portrayed as an ignoramus in the original series. But here, he's portrayed as gullible enough that one of his own servants is able to dupe him with the preposterous proposition that radio boxes contain little men who sing and talk the programs you hear. I realize it's played for laughs as a deliberate homage to real-live people who shared the same foolish belief as him, but seriously. You're taking this guy who supposedly has amassed more knowledge than any other being on the planet and putting him on the same level as the swampbenders from A:tLA.
It just feels like a huge dishonor on the part of the Korra writers.

Second, the far worse cameo: Uncle Iroh. Now, I'm going to give you ten seconds to let that one sink in (assuming you're reading this post without having seen the episode for yourself, you cheeky monkey, you ). Talon just said ... that Uncle Iroh ... is the worst cameo. No, I'm not intoxicated. I'm sorry to say that it's true: the writers brought back Uncle Iroh and he is the worst cameo ever. Why? WHERE DO I EVEN BEGIN!?
  • They brought him back as a denizen of the spirit realm. So ................ does this mean he never technically died? That he left the physical world for the spirit world before he passed on?
    • If so? Lame. Super, super lame. Part of what makes A:tLA such a great show for children is that it doesn't sugarcoat anything. It shows the good and the bad in life equally. Zuko never gets his father's love. Princess Yue dies and stays dead. Aang never discovers a secret society of airbenders who evaded the Fire Lord's purges. But no, not Korra's writers! They're all for sugarcoating shit for the kiddies! Shit coated in a candy shell so thick it'll have Meelo shouting "CRUNCHY!" as he bites into a piece to fuel the next of his poop jokes. "Kids! It's okay! UNCLE IROH DIDN'T DIE! "
    • If not? Then does that mean that he died and his spirit wasn't reincarnated? Is he a ghost? Did he achieve nirvana? What's going on? Achieving nirvana would actually be pretty cool, I have to admit, but I don't believe Iroh would've achieved that in his lifetime. He'd need at least one more lifetime to do that, I'd think, given what we saw him do in A:tLA. I mean, anything's possible in between where we last saw him and now, but ...
  • Uncle Iroh isn't just any ol' denizen of the spirit realm: he's the Mad Hatter of the spirit realm. And all his spirit friends are his March Hares. Jinora, an unwitting Alice, is led by Iroh to a tea party he's set up for two lizards who are going to get married. And in this land of topsy-turviness, Iroh prepares to serve Jinora tea out of the very same tea pot used by Avatar Wan to house Raava before they merged into one being. (Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, isn't that a bit sacrilegious of you, dude? It's like you're using the Holy Grail as the receptacle for your next glass of Hawaiian Punch.) It just ... doesn't seem like the Iroh we knew and loved, and instead seems like a caricature of him.
  • Greg Baldwin. ^^; I'll be the first to say that I think Greg did a pretty good job trying to mimic Mako (the voice actor)'s voice in A:tLA Book 3. However, he hasn't brought his A-game to this performance. It's pretty obvious that it's a Mako impersonator rather than the real Mako, the consequence being that Iroh himself feels like an impostor. It's very distracting and makes it tough (to try, desperately) to enjoy the scene.
I just ... really, really would've preferred it if they had not had Uncle Iroh here. There were so many other cameos they could've given us which would've worked. A distant relative of the Guru's. The ayeaye spirit or any of the other spirits who befriended Wan. Even one of Korra's past lives. But not Iroh. Not Iroh. D: It just ... ugh. It feels like such a cheap, cheap attempt to curry favor with the hardcore A:tLA fans. And it backfired. D: That's what makes it so horrible.

I think it took me longer than ten minutes to write all of this , so now that I've had sufficient time to get all of that out of my system ... it's back to the episode I go!
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:34 PM   #421
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I hope this doesn't need spoilers, but was tonight's episode the first one after the most recent 2-parter (that frankly was better than the entire first season)?
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:38 PM   #422
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No, it was not. Last week's (Episode 09) was the first episode since then. The two-parter was Episodes 07 and 08.

Episode titles to be helpful: Episode 09 is named "The Guide" and Episode 10 is named "A New Spiritual Age". So if the second of those is what you've found yourself having loaded, back up one step and try again. You want "The Guide" first.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:38 PM   #423
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There has been 1 episode since the two-parter.
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:08 PM   #424
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Legend of Korra Book 2 Episode 10 - remainder:

Spoiler: show
So ... yeah. This episode had one redeeming factor (at the very end), but everything else was just more shit piled onto Shit Mountain. I hate to be so negative, I really do, so I'm just going to keep this nice and short by listing my #1 complaint with the entire episode:

Korra giving in to Unalaq's demands makes no fucking sense whatsoever.

First off, the soul of one girl vs. the souls of all Creation ... this is not exactly a tough bargain, people. While it would suck to lose Jinora to Unalaq, it would suck 1,000,000x more to allow Vaatu to escape from his prison, (temporarily) wipe Raava out, putting an end to the Avatar cycle, thrusting the planet into 10,000 years of darkness, and only after 10,000 years having a 50-50 shot at maybe a restored balance. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah no. You're going to screw over every single living human being and the ones who would have followed over the next 10,000 years ... for one person. That is so retardedly selfish that it just ... argh. Next.

Second, there is absolutely no promise that Unalaq is going to give you what you want even if you do give into his demands. And oh look: he doesn't. What a surprise. Where A:tLA feels like a kids show written for adults, Korra is seriously starting to feel more and more like a teen show written for children ages 10 and under.

Third, why the fuck don't you attempt to save Jinora some other way? Why do you just give up on that even being a possibility and agree to give Unalaq what he wants? I know you may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, Korra, but I just thought of on the fly in like 10 seconds the following bullshit proposal: "Unalaq! Let her go!" (Unalaq: "Why should I? ") "Because if you don't, I can't open the portal." (Vaatu: "She's lying, Unalaq!") "I'm not lying. I can't open the portal without Jinora's help. She's how I was able to get here in the first place. I'm not like I was when Vaatu and I fought 10,000 years ago. You know that, Uncle. I can't use my bending right now. So Jinora and I need to combine our strength to do as you wish." --> get the girl, ask her how we exit the spirit realm, have her help us exit it 1-2-3-GO!, and we're back to the meditation ring. Report to Tenzin what we saw and make haste for one of the two poles so we can get back in there -- this time with our bending intact -- and make sure Vaatu isn't going anywhere. Even if my plan I just detailed fails -- say you want to play the part of Uncle Unalaq and deconstruct it in under ten seconds -- it doesn't matter. What matters is the fact that Korra didn't even try.

I just ... ugh. I really, really hated this. It felt like something which happened because the plot -- because the writers -- required it to happen if we're to reach the ending that the production team wants us to reach. It was not the least bit convincing. In fact, as I witnessed it happen, I honestly considered just aborting the series altogether. But yeah, if the first ten minutes didn't do it, and if the second thirteen didn't do it either (and like I promised -- I only talked about the one thing; I skipped any other complaints I had), this one thing definitely did. This one unfathomably stupid thing has pretty much locked Korra in as the inferior sequel to the superior Avatar: the Last Airbender. Such a shame. Things were looking so up for the series too not even two weeks ago. Man ... man.

Oh! I forgot to mention what the one redeeming factor was! Real quick: the one redeeming factor was the scene with Tenzin and Korra when Korra came back out of her trance. That was done really well ... and was SURPRISINGLY dark for a kids show. That's like the #1 thing that has me excited to see what happens next week: what Tenzin has to say to Korra and what the two decide to do from here.

Last edited by Talon87; 11-08-2013 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:11 PM   #425
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Thank you both.
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