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Old 07-27-2016, 10:57 AM   #1
deoxys
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Lady Layton

I didn't really want to have to make a new thread for this because I'm just.. not motivated for anything about this game, but Talon requested I do so instead of leaving a comment about this in another Layton thread (because we don't have a 'Layton General' like we do with AA), so here we are, I guess.

Level 5 announced a soft-reboot for the Layton series in 'Lady Layton', which will feature Layton's daughter Catriel Layton, a new character to the franchise.

BORKED

>Talking dog

>"Layton's daughter"

>Not Flora

urguhguhgruhgahgahghfurgfdgfygs I don't like this.

I hate to start off the thread negatively but I have so many problems with how Flora was handled throughout the series, being mostly reduced to a background character most of the time and not getting much development. On top of this, she was already Layton's adopted daughter (essentially?). The reveal of Layton having a biological daughter also somewhat is a slap to the face of Unwound Future, on some level, though you could also argue that Layton deserves to be happy and find peace/fall in love/have children.

The reboot here seems to indicate that the series will be taking a path of having nothing but all-new characters with the possibility of cameos occurring.

A lot of people are already drawing a lot of comparisons to Apollo Justice, which is still controversial to Ace Attorney fans to this day - either you loved it, or you loathed it (well, maybe not that simply put, but...)

I could go on and on about the cold shoulder Flora got, and I could go on about the dumb decision to have a talking dog in the game, whatever - I'm just gonna leave my thoughts here as is for now and try my best to keep a semi-open mind. At least Catriel has a nice design and the game looks to still keep the feel and aesthetic of the franchise (unlike a certain mobile spin-off that I refuse to acknowledge beyond that).

I'm just sad at the direction. Again, gonna try to keep an open mind, but for now and based off of what we know, this just depresses me.
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Old 07-27-2016, 01:29 PM   #2
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(Several light spoilers for earlier Layton titles. Safe if you've played through the third Layton game as that's all I've played through as well.)

I don't understand why they created Alfendi and now Catriel. I don't understand it and I don't like it. It's not just Flora: Luke was also Layton's ward, although with surviving parents to whom he returned at the end of Unwound Future, and more than anyone else he is Layton's apprentice. Alfendi's and Catriel's existence not only snubs Flora, who is more of a ward than Luke is, but also Luke, who is the obvious candidate for any post-Unwound Future games that need a protagonist's shoes filled. Whether you pick up right where Unwound Future left off or whether you time skip into the future where Luke is an adult, it only makes perfect sense to have Luke be the star of the Layton franchise's equivalent of Episode VII.

There are of course similarities with Apollo Justice. With the Ace Attorney series, Takumi Shū was quite up front about things: he went on the record prior to AA4's release saying that the team felt that they had explored all that they could with Phoenix and Maya and that it was time for fresh faces. They understood that fans would be upset and they asked the fans' patience and understanding. Perhaps it's the same for the Layton series -- perhaps the writers feel that they've written all they can for Layton and Luke with three present-day episodes and three prequel episodes. Furthermore, one of the most controversial things about AA4 was:

Spoiler: show
the decision to have Phoenix's life go into the gutter and stay there for seven long years, during which time he not only was disbarred but he also made, as far as we are aware, zero headway with any lovely ladies, including Maya and Iris. No wedding band, no children, no home together, no nothing.

And you see that here with Lady Layton, too. In deciding to give the Professor a biological son and daughter, fans of both The Curious Village and The Unwound Future feel betrayed. The former establishes that Layton already has a surrogate daughter in Flora, while the latter establishes that he is a perpetual widower-bachelor for life who can't remarry because he can't let go of the departed love of his life. There is beautiful tragedy in that, and some fans are understandably going to be upset with Level-5 for dismantling it in favor of providing the Professor some children out of thin air.

The thing for me is ... I learned to accept the history put forward by AA4, maybe even like it, but Layton Bros. and Lady Layton are different. It's not just that the Professor has children one way or another. (Remarries ... has a romantic affair ... donates his sperm for the betterment of mankind ...) It's that this development undermines, goes against what was put forward in the first three games. Little in AA4's controversy went against, contradicted what had been put forth in Games 1-3. There are a few points I can think of which would, a few points which I am sure are sticking points for those who can't stand AA4 and what it did to the franchise's story. But they're few, and (in my view) something you can live with. They don't upend the very foundation of the story or its characters. Not in my opinion. But with Layton Bros. and Lady Layton, they do.

It would help me to know who the lead writers are and who the director is of the various games in the Layton project. If the first three games had one writer, the three prequels had a second writer, and the mobile device spin-offs each had their own separate writers, then all of this would make perfect sense to me. For all that Flora is snubbed in Diabolical Box and Unwound Future, she's not entirely snubbed. She is still present. If instead I were to discover that the same person who wrote Curious Village had also written Lady Layton, then I'd be surprised. Then I wouldn't know quite what to say. Because to me it seems like the sort of person who could write up Lady Layton's scenario and sleep well at night couldn't possibly be the same person who wrote The Curius Village.

It's somewhat unfortunate that Lady Layton is coming out on the 3DS. Layton Bros. was something we as a fandom could try and write off, the same way a Pokémon fan might try and write off Pokémon Ranger or Pokémon Go. In being a mobile-only game, Layton Bros. was something we could declare existed "outside the canon franchise." It was a spin-off game, pure and simple. Any such game that releases outside the home console for the Layton franchise would have to be, no? Sure, we might extend an olive branch to those mobile successes we did like, but any we hated we could condemn, refusing to acknowledge their claims to legitimacy. That's much harder with Lady Layton, because Lady Layton *is* coming out on the 3DS. "Sure," I can hear you thinking: "and so did Pokémon Ranger and Pokémon Mystery Dungeon. So what? If I don't want Lady Layton in my canon lineup, then it's not in my canon lineup, console it came out on be damned!" But ehhhh, even to most who dislike Lady Layton that is going to have the ring of hypocrisy and denial. Can't really deny that Lady Layton is a "real Layton game" if it claims to be such, is marketed as such, and even comes out on the proper console.

Last edited by Talon87; 07-27-2016 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 08-04-2016, 09:12 AM   #3
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fuck this shit flora is the only real daughter of layton
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:09 AM   #4
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I don't really care about the paternity of Layton's true daughter or whatever, but I've mostly fallen out of love with the games because while the gameplay emphasizes logic puzzles and critical thinking the plotlines (which are meant to be the big draw) often completely ignore that to go off on their own M. Night Shamalamadingalingdong dream logic twists:

Spoiler: show
"Of course professor, the entire village is robots!"


Spoiler: show
"We aren't in the future after all professor, the villain just constructed a giant underground replica of London under London for no apparent reason and also a giant death walker for no apparent reason!"


Spoiler: show
"It wasn't Don Paolo at all professor, but the Nazi Dog Soldiers of the Fifth Reich operating from their secret moon base!"


The last one isn't an actual Layton plot twist, but it could be. If anyone from Level 5 is reading this I take payment in cash, check, or Anri Okita's phone number and a good word put in for me.
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Last edited by Blastoise; 08-05-2016 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:15 AM   #5
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Actually Blastoise, in the real world I would suspect the real answer to #2 before the presumption. But I don't know the Layton rules, so maybe the presumption makes more sense in that context.
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Old 08-05-2016, 07:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastoise View Post
I don't really care about the paternity of Layton's true daughter or whatever, but I've mostly fallen out of love with the games because while the gameplay emphasizes logic puzzles and critical thinking the plotlines (which are meant to be the big draw) often completely ignore that to go off on their own M. Night Shamalamadingalingdong dream logic twists:

Spoiler: show
"Of course professor, the entire village is robots!"


Spoiler: show
"We aren't in the future after all professor, the villain just constructed a giant underground replica of London under London for no apparent reason and also a giant death walker for no apparent reason!"


Spoiler: show
"It wasn't Don Paolo at all professor, but the Nazi Dog Soldiers of the Fifth Reich operating from their secret moon base!"


The last one isn't an actual Layton plot twist, but it could be. If anyone from Level 5 is reading this I take payment in cash, check, or Anri Okita's phone number and a good word put in for me.

Don't forget

Spoiler: show
Everyone in the village was hallucinating the whole time... yes, hallucinating seeing the exact same things, at the same time.


Quote:
Actually Blastoise, in the real world I would suspect the real answer to #2 before the presumption. But I don't know the Layton rules, so maybe the presumption makes more sense in that context.
Spoiler: show
I mean a major plot point of the game was that a group of scientists were trying to develop time travel, so when it "happened", they were all under the impression that they actually had time traveled to the future. This sealed their belief when they met someone impersonating an older version of Layton's assistant, Luke.



Nevertheless, as ridiculous as the games are, I still very much enjoy them and find them very charming.


Also oh god I just had a thought.

What if Catriel's mother is Emmy
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