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Old 09-25-2012, 02:21 PM   #1
deoxys
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Iran.

This doesn't have it's own thread, so I'll give it one.

I don't think I need to open with anything, as we all very well know what this thread is about, but I'll start with this video that just hit the internet.

BORKED


This is absolutely disgusting and I am offended that this motherfucker thinks he knows what is in my best interest by suggesting a false flag attack on US soil to urge us into a war with Iran.

I'm not one to believe in conspiracy theories but give me a break. This is outrageous.
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Last edited by deoxys; 09-25-2012 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:53 PM   #2
Talon87
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BORKED

BORKED

Note: the two videos are different. Top one is the television episode that aired on PBS. Second one is a presentation Rick did as a guest invited to a college to speak about Iran.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:20 PM   #3
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Thanks, watching now. 18 minutes into the first and I'm already blown away.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:25 PM   #4
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I've seen those both before. Did you give them to me? They make me want to go to Iran. Love those videos.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:54 PM   #5
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@Kuno: I don't recall if I was the one who showed them to you or not so I won't take credit for it. However, it would not surprise me if I was the one.

@deoxys: Glad you're enjoying it, glad you're actually watching it. Obviously I could hope to trust that you of all people here might given that you were the one demonstrating an interest in Iran by way of making this thread, but I did worry that the 58-minute time length would scare people away the very same way it scared people away in Midgeorge's thread. I'm grateful to see that you didn't let that scare you away and that you gave it a shot.

The reason I link to Rick Steves is because, whether I am correct or not to believe these things, I believe that:
  • he is very accessible. His word choice, how he organizes his thoughts, etc. People can understand him and stay interested in what he has to say more easily than they can with most other speakers.
  • he seems very genuine and sincere. He strikes me as an honest-to-god Fred Rogers type who doesn't hate America, who doesn't hate Iran, who doesn't hate anybody, but who wants all the people of the planet to be able to mingle friendlily.
  • he seems somewhat more intelligent / educated than your average bear. I'm not saying he's a PoliSci expert, oh no, but he's not just some random trucker or stockboy you could talk with at the bar in town.

Last edited by Talon87; 09-25-2012 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:04 PM   #6
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On a phone for the foreseeable future, would someone mind briefly summarising the arguments?
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:38 PM   #7
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If you're asking about the Rick Steves videos I posted, there's not much in the way of "arguments" to summarize. ^^; The first video is a genuine tourism video which shows you the sights and sounds of Iran covering Tehran, a village outside Qom, Esfahan, Shiraz, and Persepolis. The second video is a guest appearance he made at a university somewhere in the United States where he talked about his experiences in filming the tourism video. Some of the arguments (if you want to call them that) that Steves makes in the second video include things like:
  • he believes that Iran's government is ensconced the way it is owing to two principle factors: fear and love.
  • he argues that the Iranian people are pretty much just like us in most ways even if they live differently because they made one choice at the fork in the road while we made a different choice
    • like, he gives the example of how while their cable TV and subway cars are littered with Islamic stuff, our cable TV and subway cars are littered with commercialism stuff. They have a prayerbook channel, we have the Shopping Network. They have Islamic verses on a subway car, we have advertisements for commercial goods everywhere.
    • he explains that he didn't feel like money/economics mattered as much in Iran, that people weren't so preoccupied with financial assets the way they are over here and accredits that to the fact that our country is as commercial ideologically as theirs is Islamic ideologically
  • he mentions cultural differences being something which politicians in both countries seize upon in trying to persuade their constituency that the other country hates them
    • for instance, he tells the story of how he saw the famous propaganda mural on one of Tehran's tall buildings which shows an American flag made from skulls and bombs and says "DEATH TO THE U.S.A." on it. This really upset him and he was certain the people of this country couldn't possibly really feel this way, not based on what he'd already seen since getting off the plane. Then he gets into a taxi cab and when they get stuck in traffic the cabbie cries out "DEATH TO TRAFFIC! " This made Steves do a double take and he was like "Whaaaaaa? " and the cabbie explained, "Oh yeah: in Persian, whenever we're frustrated with something, we say 'Death to __!' that something." And this suddenly gave Steves (what he hopes is) some clarity on the nature of that mural that so upsets Americans.
    • he mentions an example that could easily be taken in reverse. "How many times have you said 'damn those kids!' or similar? Do you really wish eternal damnation upon them, fire and brimstone and torture? Of course not!"
  • he brings up how American history books usually start talking about sour relations with Iran in '79 but Iranian history books accurately begin the story back in '53 with the CIA coup of Iran's democratically elected prime minister and reinstatement of the Western-friendly Shah
  • and so on
Like I said, not really arguments. They're either historical facts (like the '53 coup bit) or warm observations based on his own travels (like the first couple of bullet points). Well, I guess there's one set of arguments I could say he makes but it's nothing you haven't heard before:
  • It isn't the Iranian people who are against America but a select few ... who also happen to be the government.
  • When the president of Iran says incendiary things about Israel or the United States, those messages aren't really meant for the countries he's talking about: they're meant for his constituency back at home, the people who vote him into office. He's rallying the base. Steves argues that the very same is true of Western politicians who bring up brinkmanship issues with Iran, how we can't allow them to get the bomb, etc.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:54 PM   #8
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I will now begin to say "DEATH TO TRAFFIC " whenever I am stuck at rush hour. Which happens often.

Spoiler: show
Death to diapers
Death to babies
Death to this puppy
Death to laundry
Death to gum on the sidewalk
Death to pigeons
Death to chafing underpants
Death to lamps
Death to slightly overcooked chicken that is a little bit tough and rubbery
Death to the Knights who say "Ni" (ikki-ikki-ikki-petaaaanng-zoop-boing)
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:53 PM   #9
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Mm. Well, it's true, Iran has been demonised. As had Armoured dinner jacket to an extent.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:56 PM   #10
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I'm sure some of you have seen this on Reddit, but I think this is a nice perspective on it.

http://vimeo.com/7067162
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