UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Debate

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-20-2012, 03:45 AM   #51
Gemini Spark
Weavile Pillow
 
Gemini Spark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Resting with Leila <3
Posts: 2,739
Send a message via Skype™ to Gemini Spark
Are you referring to outside of the Church? That'd be pretty difficult to come up with since that's where the best historical records about them are.
__________________


Avatar made by din-of-hyrule
Battlecut made by the crazy Daisy! *happy snek sounds*
Twitch | YouTube | Twitter | Wild Future
Gemini Spark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 03:47 AM   #52
Rangeet
Foot, meet mouth.
 
Rangeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 4,362
Send a message via MSN to Rangeet Send a message via Skype™ to Rangeet
The historical records are in the Church...which is supported by the historical records?

Um. No. That's circular logic.
__________________
Spoiler: show
Rangeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2012, 09:30 AM   #53
unownmew
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,319
Send a message via MSN to unownmew
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
This sentence effectively summarizes why nobody is going to debate you much anymore.

You're not really here for truth, you're here to preach. Unlike other places, the users of UPN are tactful and respective enough to listen to your preaching and decide for themselves if there's merit in what you have to say. Catholics and atheists alike have put up with your pulpit because they're interested, not because they're radical contractions like you're expecting. It's almost egregious how awesome your audience is and how rigid you've been toward them.

I've judged debate for 4 years, and after watching you in this forum since December I feel despite your extensive knowledge your persuasive skills are quite poor. You completely ignore the major challenges to your beliefs and often retreat to conspiracy theory/un-falsifiability when facts are presented in front of you. Facts you do not provide yourself, but ask of others as a bluff. You sometimes provide evidence but it's never up to our standards of rigor and bias, despite the burden of proof lying with you.

You're not even doing what other LDS do - appeal to the logical framework of Mormonism. I'd never met a Mormon who preached down - something common to fundamentalists Christians, which the LDS by definition is not - before I met you, and it's kind of jarring that you'd so proudly banner your affiliation with the religion when you're not even in compliance with how it operates.

My friend the Elder, for example, gave a much more compelling, curious and far less condescending response to some questions in a few sentences than you did in several dozen posts (paraphrase):

"God isn't a disembodied voice, the Bible says he made man in his image. So, we can infer he's human-like at least. If Man is reflective of God, we can also infer that Man's institutions likewise imitate God's domain."

He told me this in 10th Grade, and it's a good defense for the planet thing. The God system in the Book of Mormon is analogous to the role of governments in our secular society, institutions that determine behaviour and ethics of the governed. At this level, it's not even contradictory with other Christian beliefs, but it suggests rationality, and primes the listener for dissecting the more controversial beliefs.

This isn't the Dark Ages, and ultimately people on the whole can think much more critically than they could centuries ago. Fear and superstition just isn't as compelling in the face of the results of modern science and economics. If you want to win over people, you need to frame your arguments more in the latter and less in the former.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini Spark View Post
OK, so I've looked over the thread, being LDS myself, and I like how Unownmew handled certain topics and don't like as much how he handled others.
First off, I think the dark skin curse happened with Noah's son, Ham, rebelling. It might have happened in Cain's bloodline, but theoretically everyone other than Noah and his friends were killed by the flood. Haymez is correct about the Lamanites, though. Again, nothing against Blacks or Native Americans; they can be just as worthy of celestial glory as everyone else.

Second, I think Doppleganger is right on a couple of points; one of our Church's purposes is to preach the gospel, but we shouldn't be "bible-bashing" or preaching down, but preaching up, "teaching as inspired by the Spirit," to use LDS lingo.

Third, and Haymez did bring this up, but we can't really force people to believe one way or another. It just doesn't work that way. Everyone has their agency; "they are free to choose liberty and eternal life through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death through the captivity and power of the devil..." (2 Nephi 2: 27, emphasis added) Everyone should have the chance to decide for themselves whether to follow God or someone/something else. Whether good or wrong, it's their choice; our job as members is simply to show that there just might be a better path to follow.

Also, unownmew, I think you could've handled Deoxys' trolling better; you really did play right into his hands. That said, I can think of Zeezrom's questions in Alma 11 and Amulek's responses to them... worth a read.

Finally, I am grateful for a thread like this being put up. Even if the discussion devolves (and thanks Haymez and Doppleganger, BTW, for re-evolving it), at the very least, it still exposes people to LDS beliefs; the more people just know about us, the better.

There, I put in a whole nickel's worth!
*shamed into silence*
unownmew is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > General Forums > Debate


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:19 AM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.