07-02-2017, 08:35 PM | #101 |
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I would like to find different rewards on mask's system other than stat and STAB buffs, and move Happiness evolution down (we could stick mega evolution at 5) and I would be pretty happy with the system as it is.
If someone could please collate the suggested systems in one post that would be grand.
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07-02-2017, 10:31 PM | #102 |
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To address the request for a temporary solution:
Perhaps the best way to do this is to simply determine what rank will allow for happiness evolution. We can set THIS in stone, and determine other benefits later - after all, the perks of IQ are added bonuses which do not need to be resolved right away, but evolution by happiness/bond is more crucial to resolve. What rank seems appropriate? My thought was doing IQ rank 50. Those Pokemon who already have happiness points from the old system will have the points transferred at 5 IQ per point (with maximum IQ still at 100). Is this reasonable? Are there other thoughts on this? Should it be maximum IQ to evolve? (That seems like a lot of gummis to me... We would absolutely have to make them more accessible if this were the case. Even at 50 I think they need to be more accessible if we're relying on IQ for happiness evos.) :EDIT: Also working on that synopsis post - apologies in advance if I end up double-posting.
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07-02-2017, 10:38 PM | #103 |
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Honestly, I think 50's perfectly fine. It's just high enough that it can take some effort to reach, while not being so astronomically high that it takes years to get a crobat for some reason.
As for conversion rates, I believe the original proposal was 5 per HP and one-for-one in terms of old IQ, with gummis adding +2 henceforth and one point being added for each Zone Reply the pokemon is in. Again, I don't see too much of a problem with this, but I'm not exactly the only opinion bearer that matters here! |
07-02-2017, 10:57 PM | #104 | |
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07-02-2017, 11:02 PM | #105 |
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PROPOSED SYSTEMS THUS FAR ORIGINAL SYSTEM Spoiler: show GS' PROPOSALS Updated Spoiler: show Original Spoiler: show RAVES' PROPOSALS Updated Spoiler: show Original Spoiler: show TOYO'S PROPOSAL Spoiler: show MM'S PROPOSALS First Spoiler: show Second Spoiler: show MEDIAN DIA'S PROPOSAL Spoiler: show BALMUND'S PROPOSAL Spoiler: show LIT'S PROPOSAL Spoiler: show MASK'S PROPOSAL Spoiler: show |
07-02-2017, 11:03 PM | #106 |
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I'd rather shoot even lower for happiness evolution. I'm personally more partial towards a value of 20-30 IQ/Bond/whatever. With this, no player is going to get an evolution without some moderate time shop grinding and will require a couple rounds of rping to speed up... but it will also maintain the option for an early evolution, and honestly, I don't see a problem with an early evo at all.
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07-02-2017, 11:12 PM | #107 |
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Hmm, Balmund does bring up a good point. I currently have a bit of a stockpile of things to lean on in order to push the rest of the way through my first Happiness evo, but after that I am kinda stuck. In any case, the evolution tier should definitely be on a multiple of 10 if we are doing the conversion thing, since we will likely be introducing decimals into the system otherwise and that's bound to get real nasty real fastlike!
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07-02-2017, 11:43 PM | #108 |
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If indeed we're going to be going by a 100-point system here, I got no problem with happiness evolutions occurring at rank 50. Obviously, I'm assuming here that Gummis will not by any stretch of the imagination be the only means to increase Link/Happiness/Friendship (whatever we end up calling it). We want to have to work somewhat for happiness evolutions, but at the same time, it shouldn't take several years to evolve Igglybuff into Jigglypuff. At the very least I'm thinking we'll need to implement more means of obtaining Gummis, as well as implementing the Soothe Bell somehow, and maybe awarding points based on usage in zones or Trainer battles, things of that nature.
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07-03-2017, 12:04 AM | #109 |
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I think we go 30 for unlocking happiness based evolutions, then give Pokemon 3 points for every one point they gained in the Salon and a 1:1 conversion for old IQ points. This way Bond levels aren't particularly crazy when carrying over points from multiple old systems, but certain evolutions are attainable within a few months.
Also, Marion brings up a good point: we don't need to fully implement the Bond system yet, we can just give Pokemon the ability to unlock their evolutions, get the weekly Wonder Gummi going, and discuss the rest of the perks later.
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07-03-2017, 01:23 AM | #110 |
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Well, because I have a lot of time on my hands and I'm a sucker for spreadsheets, here you go guys.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing I basically compiled all of the lists Marion shared and sorted them by the average level that each proposal suggested (for Mask's I just put them every 10 levels) From here I think it could be a lot easier to narrow down the options *shrugs*
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07-03-2017, 11:21 AM | #111 |
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Opinion: We don't know yet if we are going to do a 50 point system or a 100 point system, so the obvious solution to picking the best place for a Happiness/Friendship/Affection etc evolution is right around 30-35 Bond/Link/whatever. Since these are essentially a sort of leveling system in their own right, there's no reason to not make it something right around 30 - which I'm assuming means ~30 updates with that Pokemon, IIRC, or at least that's how one of the proposals worked. To me, that seems like a reasonable number for them to be able to evolve. Either way there's really no reason for it to be much higher than that, and higher tiers can grant more rewards later when we cross that bridge.
We can implement this immediately, and then continue to debate how many tiers we are doing, and retroactively give people other tier benefits later on once they have been created. So yeah, I'm gonna say 30, and it should be implemented ASAP. |
07-08-2017, 08:41 PM | #112 |
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At the risk of doing something very unpopular, there are some systems we allowed in the early days of our modship that I think would be better tied to this system. I still want to allow relative freedom in FB, but I am realizing more and more that this freedom should be earned - we need things to work for, after all.
My proposal actually works in negative points, for those who obtain shadow Pokemon to work backwards from -50. It does make Shadow Pokemon far more of a detriment to own and maintain, but I personally think that Shadow Pokemon SHOULD be more difficult to own and work with. I am not certain if we would allow for villainous players to RP themselves converting their Pokemon into shadows, but this is a possibility that could be explored... -50: Your Pokemon could not hate you more if it tried. It has become a SHADOW of its former self, and will be recolored to show this. It will obtain a shadow aura, as well. FRUSTRATION is at its maximum power. Your Pokemon will refuse to go to the Daycare, MT or Breeding Center, no matter how strongly you word your request. Shadow Pokémon have a 50% chance of either completely ignoring their trainers orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Freshly obtained Shadow Pokemon (from events and whatnot) start at this level. Your Pokemon will refuse to learn TMs if you offer them to it. Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle. -40: Your Pokemon has a 40% chance of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Your Pokemon will refuse to learn TMs if you offer them to it. Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle. -30: Your Pokemon has a 30% chance of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle. -20: Your Pokemon has a 20% chance of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle. -10: Your Pokemon has a 10% chance of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. 0: Your Pokemon is neutral toward you. No benefits or drawbacks at this level. Shadow Pokemon are reverted to normal, UNLESS a fee of $1000 is paid to maintain a convincing glamour of the Pokemon's former shadow form. Non-shadow Pokemon start here by default. 10: Your Pokemon can utilize the Move Relearner. 20: Your Pokemon can utilize any TM - even those outside its species limitations. All previous bonuses above 0 apply. 30: Happiness evolutions can occur at this stage. The Pokemon can learn TM Gummi Bomb. All previous bonuses above 0 apply. 40: The Pokemon can learn Guardian Terrain. Advanced/Shadow moves can now be learned by this Pokemon at the MT. All previous bonuses above 0 apply. 50: MAXIMUM. Daycare levels earned for this Pokemon are doubled. This Pokemon will earn a special aura for being max IQ. Pokemon at both max level and max IQ learn Defensive Shield. RETURN is at maximum power. All previous bonuses above 0 apply. Last edited by Marion Ette; 07-08-2017 at 09:12 PM. |
07-08-2017, 09:02 PM | #113 |
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I like it. A couple of notes/questions I would add would be, first, how will existing Happiness points be converted into the system? Secondly, I think for the Shadow section, it might be best to include the higher tiers in the descriptions of the lower tiers to eliminate confusion. (ex. -30: Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you AND your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle.)
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07-08-2017, 09:05 PM | #114 |
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Part of me isn't exactly thrilled about this, but on the other hand, I do agree that some things ought to be worked for. Overall, it's an interesting system. Question- I'm guessing previously earned Happiness Points and IQ would factor into this, but in the case of Shadow Pokémon, what of any Purification Points they might have earned under the old system?
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07-08-2017, 09:07 PM | #115 |
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Some quick thoughts:
Maybe you could tone down how horrible it is to use a shadow Pokemon, ever so slightly. People would be inclined to never use them in updates, period, thus they become useless - unless they get purified. People would need incentive to use a shadow pokemon in an update to help bring up its bond, or to lower it even further - I understand why you chose the tiers you did, I'm just saying that they do get a bit excessive, and could be extremely hard to work with if you catch a shadow Pokemon like that from scratch. Purification would be the only option, unless you were willing to tough out a loooot of updates spent with that Pokemon for the sake of storytelling. I mean, it could be interesting to have to deal with an unruly, untamed Pokemon that might even go against your will, but I could also see it begin un-fun if not handled properly. Otherwise... this system isn't bad at all. Just needs some tweaks. |
07-08-2017, 09:09 PM | #116 | |||
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Also, if we have people with IQ points over 50 from the old system, I have no problem just letting them have max level in the current system. I briefly considered dividing IQ by 2 for everyone, but I think this way is probably better, personally. I will edit the post to clarify how the benefits and drawbacks carry over as happiness/IQ increases or decreases, since with both positive and negative in this system, it can get confusing. I appreciate the feedback! :EDIT: Just saw MM and Deo's responses... Will be editing in responses of my own shortly! Quote:
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So, something like: -20: Your Pokemon could not hate you more if it tried. It has become a SHADOW of its former self, and will be recolored to show this. It will obtain a shadow aura, as well. FRUSTRATION is at its maximum power. Your Pokemon will refuse to go to the Daycare, MT or Breeding Center, no matter how strongly you word your request. Shadow Pokémon have a 25% chance of either completely ignoring their trainers orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Freshly obtained Shadow Pokemon (from events and whatnot) start at this level. Your Pokemon will refuse to learn TMs if you offer them to it. Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle. -15: Your Pokemon has a 20% chance of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Your Pokemon will refuse to learn TMs if you offer them to it. Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle. -10: Your Pokemon has a 15% chance of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle. -5: Your Pokemon has a 10% chance of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle. 0: Your Pokemon is neutral toward you. No benefits or drawbacks at this level. Shadow Pokemon are reverted to normal, UNLESS a fee of $1000 is paid to maintain a convincing glamour of the Pokemon's former shadow form. Non-shadow Pokemon start here by default. 10: Your Pokemon can utilize the Move Relearner. 20: Your Pokemon can utilize any TM - even those outside its species limitations. All previous bonuses above 0 apply. 30: Happiness evolutions can occur at this stage. The Pokemon can learn TM Gummi Bomb. All previous bonuses above 0 apply. 40: The Pokemon can learn Guardian Terrain. Advanced/Shadow moves can now be learned by this Pokemon at the MT. All previous bonuses above 0 apply. 50: MAXIMUM. Daycare levels earned for this Pokemon are doubled. This Pokemon will earn a special aura for being max IQ. Pokemon at both max level and max IQ learn Defensive Shield. RETURN is at maximum power. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.
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07-08-2017, 09:31 PM | #117 |
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One other question I forgot to ask is, how will these Bond points be gained? Obviously there will be gummis/birthdays, but what about zones?
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07-08-2017, 09:40 PM | #118 |
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Side note: Pokepuffs > Gummis
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07-08-2017, 09:43 PM | #119 | |
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I know it's going to be a bit of extra tracking - but I think combining IQ, purification and happiness will mean that there's a lot less to keep track of than with the old systems. Also, thematically we could have gummis, Pokepuffs and Pokebeans, which all do the same thing but are given out in different areas depending on what makes sense thematically. (Incognito Isle could still give out gummis, for example, while the Birthday Bash gives out birthday cake flavored Pokepuffs.) |
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07-08-2017, 09:50 PM | #120 |
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And what of the proposed Pokeballs and other mechanics stated in the CAP/Shadow Thread? How will these factor into this system if they are approved? Spoilering so people can see it if they want to. By it I mean the Pokeballs.
Spoiler: show
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07-08-2017, 09:51 PM | #121 |
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I like this new system a lot better, if only because it'd be easier to convert any purification/IQ/happiness points over from the old system. I did notice people complaining about custom moves being involved with other IQ systems suggested; I personally don't have a problem with them, but if too many people do what might be some alternatives we could have in place for the custom moves?
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07-08-2017, 10:09 PM | #122 | ||
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Quote:
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07-08-2017, 10:24 PM | #123 |
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I'm liking this idea more and more. I'm also liking the alternatives for the custom moves as well.
And as long as we're discussing Shadow Pokémon here, I'd like to revive the discussion regarding purification moves for purified Shadow Pokémon. Any thoughts? Back in this thread, some ideas were brought up, such as allowing purified Shadow Pokémon to learn a small assortment of moves that were purification-exclusive on Shadow Pokémon in XD (Charm, Helping Hand, Heal Bell, and the like), and even allowing purified Pokémon to retain their Shadow moves. Personally, I'm leaning more towards the latter, considering a bunch of the purification-only moves are MTs that can be taught to anything anyway, and we already seem to be leaning towards letting non-Shadows learn Shadow moves. |
07-09-2017, 12:22 AM | #124 |
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Oh man, I am so into Marion's system that it isn't even funny.
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07-09-2017, 12:31 AM | #125 |
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Are Advanced moves like Draco Meteor and Pledges?
By Move Relearner are you referring to the Move Tutor? If so I really don't like the idea of not being able to access it straight away. Some Pokemon get absolutely nothing to help them out early on and this can make it really hard to RP with them and level them outside of Daycare. |
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