IQ and the perks that come with it

[Princess Ana]

I would like to find different rewards on mask's system other than stat and STAB buffs, and move Happiness evolution down (we could stick mega evolution at 5) and I would be pretty happy with the system as it is.

If someone could please collate the suggested systems in one post that would be grand.

[Marion Ette]

To address the request for a temporary solution:

Perhaps the best way to do this is to simply determine what rank will allow for happiness evolution. We can set THIS in stone, and determine other benefits later - after all, the perks of IQ are added bonuses which do not need to be resolved right away, but evolution by happiness/bond is more crucial to resolve.

What rank seems appropriate? My thought was doing IQ rank 50. Those Pokemon who already have happiness points from the old system will have the points transferred at 5 IQ per point (with maximum IQ still at 100).

Is this reasonable? Are there other thoughts on this? Should it be maximum IQ to evolve? (That seems like a lot of gummis to me... We would absolutely have to make them more accessible if this were the case. Even at 50 I think they need to be more accessible if we're relying on IQ for happiness evos.)

:EDIT: Also working on that synopsis post - apologies in advance if I end up double-posting.

[Median Dia]

Honestly, I think 50's perfectly fine. It's just high enough that it can take some effort to reach, while not being so astronomically high that it takes years to get a crobat for some reason.

As for conversion rates, I believe the original proposal was 5 per HP and one-for-one in terms of old IQ, with gummis adding +2 henceforth and one point being added for each Zone Reply the pokemon is in. Again, I don't see too much of a problem with this, but I'm not exactly the only opinion bearer that matters here!

[Sandaa]

Originally Posted by Marion Ette

To address the request for a temporary solution:

Perhaps the best way to do this is to simply determine what rank will allow for happiness evolution. We can set THIS in stone, and determine other benefits later - after all, the perks of IQ are added bonuses which do not need to be resolved right away, but evolution by happiness/bond is more crucial to resolve.

What rank seems appropriate? My thought was doing IQ rank 50. Those Pokemon who already have happiness points from the old system will have the points transferred at 5 IQ per point (with maximum IQ still at 100).

Is this reasonable? Are there other thoughts on this? Should it be maximum IQ to evolve? (That seems like a lot of gummis to me... We would absolutely have to make them more accessible if this were the case. Even at 50 I think they need to be more accessible if we're relying on IQ for happiness evos.)

:EDIT: Also working on that synopsis post - apologies in advance if I end up double-posting.

While in the system that it currently exists I would say it's fine, but in our current version of FB I would say it's not... Gummis are something we only can get from the Birthday event right now as well as the random event or two, so to have your pokemon average a gain of 2-3 IQ a year when you need 50 to evolve is a bit ridiculous to me.

[Marion Ette]

PROPOSED SYSTEMS THUS FAR

ORIGINAL SYSTEM

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Level 20: The Pokemon has a 15% chance of not being affected of status conditions.

Level 40: The Pokemon learns the move Gummi Bomb:
Gummi Bomb: (xxxx)
The User launches an energy bomb in the form of a gummi at the opponent that sticks to their skin/fur/scales whatever they've got, after 2 Rounds the Gummi Explodes doing (xxxx) damage, equal to that of a Sludge Bomb. The opponent can use means to get rid of the bomb, but regardless of where it is the bomb will go off after 2 Rounds.
Contest Type: Smart
Contest Effect:On the next round startles whoever appeals first.
Appeal Points <3 <3
Jam Points<3 <3 <3 <3

Level 60: The Pokemon gains a 5% power boost of all moves that are the same type as it (Example, all Water/Psychic Moves from Slowpoke are boosted, all Normal attacks from a Porygon are Boosted).

Level 80:If the Pokemon is the currently active one on the field, their boosted IQ allows you to capture 2nd form Pokemon as long as you have the corresponding Pokeball (Example - Houndoom you will need a Rocket or Fire Ball), the active Pokemon must also have been the one to Ko or weaken the wild Pokemon enough to capture it.

Level 100:Once your pokemon has gained the maximum amount of IQ, they will learn Defensive Shield (Normal), After your Pokemon attacks first, there is a 50% chance, they will anticipate a move and an Energy Shield will automatically be raised, if your Pokemon will attack second, they have a 25% chance of anticipating and will take the next attack and either taking the damage reducing it by 50% or taking the attack and reducing damage to 0, this can only be used once per round.
Contest Type: Smart
Contest Effect: Cuts the next Pokemon to appeals points in half.
Appeal Points: <3
Jam Points: <3 <3 <3 <3

GS' PROPOSALS

Updated

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And here is my new list which reflects other mechanics that may be implemented:

10 IQ: +5% STAB
20 IQ: 15% chance of avoiding status conditions
30 IQ: Gummi Bomb
40 IQ: Bonus to STAB is raised to 10%
50 IQ: Chance to avoid status conditions is raised to 25%, 50% against Confuse and Attract
60 IQ: +10% damage to super effective attacks, -10% damage against super-effective hits
70 IQ: Bonus to STAB is raised to 20%
80 IQ: Critical hit chance is doubled (stacks with abilities, items, and moves that increase critical hit chance)
90 IQ: Damage bonus and damage reduction to/against super effective attacks increased to 20%
100 IQ: Critical hit damage is x3 instead of x2; if a Pokemon has the Sniper ability, this bonus raises critical hit damage to x4 instead

Original

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My past list of IQ perks:
10 IQ: 15% chance of avoiding status conditions
20 IQ: +5% STAB
30 IQ: Gummi Bomb
40 IQ: Bonus to STAB is raised to 10%
50 IQ: Ability to capture second-stage Pokemon using custom Pokeballs that match the Pokemon's type
60 IQ: Chance to avoid status conditions is raised to 25%, 50% against Confuse and Attract
70 IQ: Defensive Shield
80 IQ: Bonus to STAB is raised to 20%
90 IQ: +10% damage to super effective attacks, -10% damage against super-effective hits
100 IQ: Critical hit chance is doubled

RAVES' PROPOSALS

Updated

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10 link: An instant egg or MT move is a good start here, and making it a natural one is sensible. If the mon already has their natural egg/MT moves, then they'd be given the choice of one offtype MT move they don't learn normally.

20 link: Er, no. Giving the mon an extra level for a level in a zone makes little sense given that levels are going to be handed out more frequently in zones. I propose that at 20 link the pokemon gains an extra bit of natural energy for moves, equal to a Hyper Beam or so, allowing them to last longer in a sustained fight or event.

30 link: Learning a new TM move's fine, and this would mean any move since TM restrictions no longer apply in FB.

40 link: Yeah, it's going to have to be Gummi Bomb. In respects to my thoughts on GB, physical hidden power is very much still a thing, the attack doing Good damage rather than the Moderate it had before, and based on the user's own HP type: Hidden Power Ice would equate to Gummi Bomb Ice. Z-Gummi Bomb would work under the same rules as Z-Hidden Power: it would require Normalium Z and turn into Breakneck Blitz.

50 link: Evos on happiness here are fine. Mega evolution shouldn't be gated I feel, however.

60 link: Curing yourself of a status once per adventure? That's not too bad, but this should expand to allow the user to use their first STAB move in a battle without energy expenditure.

70 link: See 40 link for thoughts on the giving of free levels. Guardian Emera it is, but I've been having thoughts on the move, and feel it should be rethought as the current setup is complicated. Right now the move creates a temporary hold item that either halves STAB energy use or can be thrown to -1 all the foe's stats, but I feel that's not quite sane and too complicated. Therefore, my proposal to my proposal is a rework of the move.

Guardian Terrain (Status) (Normal)
The user draws upon their bond with their trainer to create a glyph on the surface, which expands and surrounds the battlefield in the Guardian Terrain field effect. Guardian Terrain affects all pokemon on the ground and gives them immunity to damage from moves of their own type, while increasing the damage they deal with moves of their own type by 50%. Guardian Terrain also prevents the pokemon within from being afflicted by burns or freezing, and will last 5 turns. Guardian Terrain is affected by the Terrain Extender, and will override any terrain effect currently up while preventing weather from having any effect on the battle.

Z-Guardian Terrain uses the Normalium Z, and will increase the user's accuracy by two stages.

From complicated hold item thing to full-blown Pokemon Ranger reference terrain move! Guardian Terrain pretty much acts as Adaptability for all pokemon, while making them immune to their own type moves, as well as stopping burns and freezes, serving as both an offensive and defensive terrain that any pokemon can utilise. This would use more energy than the other four terrains, it should be noted.

80 link: Learning a move of your choice sounds horribly broken, sorry. Even excluding legendary and shadow moves (rightfully) we have plenty of moves that have limited learnsets due to their effects. Sketch is one example, as is Transform, but we could work around this. At 80 link, the pokemon can learn any move of their own type, excluding legendary-only moves, Sketch and Transform. This gives each pokemon their own unique pseudo-signature move, which suits it better.

90 link: Anything that affects an adventure and catch should be dissuaded. If anything, at 90 link the user should get the other end of the 20 link effect, and get an extra boost in health, giving them the stamina and resilience to last longer. Additionally, the pokemon, if weakened enough, wouldn't faint until the end of a round, even if they take enough damage at the beginning to knock them out.

100 link: Bond Phenomenom's something we should discuss further, with what kind of bond being a thing. We have transformation forms in the vein of (tr)Ash-Greninja, but the mention of a custom move is something we can play with. Having maxed bond could mean the pokemon gets access to a unique signature move, or even a Z-Move if allowed. It's something we should debate.

Original

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If we do opt to keep the system, we first need to sort out IQ boosts and how to obtain gummis easier, rather than just from events. My initial proposal for this is as follows.

Same-type Gummis give +5 IQ.
Super-effective Gummis give +4 IQ.
Neutral Gummis give +3 IQ.
Resisted Gummis give +2 IQ.
Immune Gummis give +1 IQ.
Mysterious Gummis get their name changed to Wonder Gummis (as they are canonically known) and give +5 IQ regardless of type.
Dual typed pokemon may only gain one boost from a gummi on their type, and SE types take priority over resistances and immunities. Gligar for instance eating a Yellow Gummi would get a +4 boost as the Flying type weakness to Electric overrides the Ground immunity, while the same pokemon eating a Clear Gummi would also get +4, and not +8 from double weakness to Ice.
The Fairy type Gummi would be called the Bubble Gummi, just for pun, and a pale pink.

Of course, for high IQ we also require extra bonuses that will affect the pokemon, as well as a rework for both Gummi Bomb and Defensive Shield. GS's thoughts on a 10 IQ system works well, and I'd like to give my own proposition, with explanations that fit a more intelligent pokemon in {braces.}

10 IQ: -10% energy consumption on STAB Moves. {The pokemon would be more conservative over their energy usage and able to output the same damage on their own type while using reduced energy.}
20 IQ: 10% chance to cure static status conditions such as poison and paralysis at the end of the round. {The pokemon would be wiser to how the status affects them and how to treat it in a pinch. This also has a nod towards Pokemon Refresh's self-healing.}
30 IQ: The user learns the ability Gummi Bomb. {No difficulty here, see below for proposed rewrite.}
40 IQ: The damage done by offtype moves is boosted by 10%. {The pokemon becomes more adept with moves of unfamiliar type, and how they work.}
50 IQ: -20% consumption of energy on STAB moves. {The pokemon masters their own type and commands greater efficiency over their own skills.}
60 IQ: The pokemon learns Guardian Emera. {This replaces Defensive Shield, and will be described below, as well as being a nod to PSMD.}
70 IQ: Critical hit damage taken is reduced by 25%. {The pokemon learns how to withstand painful blows and surprise hits on sensitive spots, and this listed damage is a reduction to the overall crit bonus, not the actual attack: an attack of base 100 power critting for an extra 100 damage for a total of 200 base damage, would instead do an extra 75 damage for a total of 175 damage.}
80 IQ: -10% energy consumption on offtype moves. {The pokemon at this stage is wise to their moves, and can now operate their unfamiliar moves as well as their same typed ones, though their STAB moves remain stronger.}
90 IQ: Critical hit damage taken is reduced by 50%. {That 200 damage on crit? That's now 150, akin to gen 6+ crits. This is covered by the pokemon now being aware of how to defend against critical strikes.}
100 IQ: +20% damage done by STAB moves, -10% damage taken by neutrally effective moves, and the user learns the move Magnagate Burst. {The big carrot on the IQ stick, this gives the pokemon who's as learned as they come absolute mastery over their own typing, allowing them to gain extra oomph in their attacks, while having less fear over neutral attacks, giving them a small resistance to them. On top of this, they learn a great new move that references GtI.}

So, those move revamps?

Gummi Bomb(physical)
The user creates a bomblet of their latent inner energy and throws it at the foe, doing moderate damage. The move's type is dependant on the user's own hidden power.

So Hidden Power exists and is special. Here's the physical variant.

Guardian Emera(Status)
Drawing power from the land and its own energy, the user enchants the ground, creating a crystalline droplet that attaches itself to the user. The droplet grants the user complete control of their element, greatly reducing energy costs for the user's STAB moves down to 50%, and can be thrown at the foe to reduce each of their stats by one stage, destroying the emera. The droplet lasts for four attacks regardless of those being STAB or not, after which it will crumble to dust. This technique consumes considerable energy, and can only be used once per battle, and the emera can be destroyed by a direct strike from the foe.

Right, so Super Myster Dungeon's a great game, and emera are temporary items, so why not implement them as an IQ move? You can choose to use it as a debuff or to go all-out with your best moves. The limit of 4 moves is to balance the fact a Charmander can call it and then Fire Blast 4 times while only using the energy for two, and it only works for STAB moves as the emera is linked to the pokemon. It beats the RNG nature of Defensive Shield while keeping the IQ tie to PMD strongly.

Magnagate Burst(Special)
The user focuses before drawing on their energy to create a magnagate that leads to a mass of energy that bursts out of the magnagate at all targets, inflicting major damage. The magnagate will remain open for three turns, during which the energy will continue to burst at the targets for considerable damage, before closing. The damage ignores all resistances and immunities of the foe, and the user has complete control of the magnagate, and may use the energy burst to restore their own health. The opponent may attack the magnagate, which can be destroyed. This technique is draining on the user, both physically and mentally, and can only be used once per battle, and the user may only use the move as a single action.

The big one, Magnagate Burst is basically the max IQ Z-move for those who know it all. It's basically the pokemon summoning a great big cannon to fire at the foe, doing one huge strike at the start as strong as a blast move, followed by 3 smaller but still painful hits as strong as the likes of the elemental punches, one per round. The balance is the fact it's a one-rounder, and the huge energy costs (we're speaking one and a half hyper beams here) to use it, but the power to hit everything that opposes you with a dimensional blast from god-knows-where more than makes up for it. You want something to look forward to in the grind to 100? Here's a typeless Z-move for you that you can use with your own Z-move!

TOYO'S PROPOSAL

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On how this system goes into place: IQ and Beauty Points get the boot. Both are replaced by this system. 1 Beauty Point converts into 5 Link, and 1 IQ is equal to 1 Link. A problem I might see arise is that a lot of people gave IQ to their Pokemon to represent the Pokemon's intelligence, and this system very much so is not related to that.

I am not creative enough to come up with enough of these, but remember the rules of No Numbers and making it something that you deal with, not SOs/ZUs.

Bond - As your Pokemon bonds with you, they gain bonuses. Bond is measured on the scale of Links, like a chain that holds a trainer and their Pokemon together. There are 100 levels of Link to travel through before a trainer and their Pokemon are considered to be in perfect sync.

Link is gained through adventuring with your Pokemon and the use of Gummis. Every zone reply that you use a Pokemon in grants them 1 Link. Gummis grant 2 Link. Link can also be given as a reward to particularly good roleplay displaying the bond or development of a relationship between trainer and Pokemon, though never more than 3, and usually roughly 1 if at all.

0 Link: This Pokemon is new to you and your team. You gain no special bonuses.

10 Link: ?

20 Link: You and your Pokemon understand how one another trains. This Pokemon will level up one more time whenever they level up in a zone. This is applied when you confirm the level up in a reply, meaning the Zone Updator does not have to acknowledge this bonus.

30 Link: You and your Pokemon learn from each other. Your Pokemon learns a TM move of your choice.

40 Link: The bond between you and your Pokemon is clear to others, and other people commend you for it. Any Zone reply that includes this Pokemon grants an extra 50 Pokedollars. (idk about this one. feels annoying for whoever runs the Bank.)

50 Link: This Pokemon believes in you, and you believe in them. If this Pokemon has a Happiness-based evolution, they can now evolve.

60 Link: Your Pokemon pushes their own limits for your sake. When your Pokemon is affected by a status condition, you can choose for them to not be affected by it any more, as they shrug it off for your sake. This bonus can only be used once in any particular adventure.

70 Link: Your Pokemon seeks to train harder than ever for you, even when you aren't around. When you drop this Pokemon off at the Daycare, any amount of levels they would gain is doubled. This bonus occurs after you pick them up, meaning the Shop Owner does not have to acknowledge this bonus.

80 Link:

90 Link: You understand the essence of your Pokemon, and the two of you learn to harness it together. This Pokemon learns any one move of your choice.

100 Link: (Considered a special Z-move or something. idk. help.)

MM'S PROPOSALS

First

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0 Link: Nothing, obviously. Should be pretty obvious.

10 Link: Kinda liking GS's idea of granting an Egg/MT move here.

20 Link: I've suggested something similar as an IQ bonus before, if memory serves- no, no, it was way back when we were discussing implementing affection- I remember suggesting, to emulate the games' boosted experience points, something similar to what Soy Sauce suggests for this. It sounds good to me. In-zone level-ups happen infrequently enough for this to not be horribly gamebreaking, IMO.

30 Link: I'm assuming that this TM would not need to be necessarily compatible with the Pokémon, yeah? Basically echoing GS's questions on this one.

40 Link: I like the idea behind it, but yeah, it does sound like it'd be something of a pain to keep track of. I actually have a different idea for the implementation of Raves's revamped Gummi Bomb, but I'll mention that later.

50 Link: Sounds like a good point at which to allow happiness-based evolutions. I'm with Emi, though- no real need to tie Mega Evolution to it, I think.

60 Link: I like it. I like it a lot. MARION EDIT: This is in reference to Toy's proposal: Your Pokemon pushes their own limits for your sake. When your Pokemon is affected by a status condition, you can choose for them to not be affected by it any more, as they shrug it off for your sake. This bonus can only be used once in any particular adventure.

70 Link: I'm leaning towards GS's suggestion- inserting Guardian Emera here instead. Once again, I like the concept behind what Soy Sauce suggested for this spot, but it might be tricky to keep track of.

80 Link and 90 Link: I'm gonna go with what GS said about these.

100 Link: I actually have an idea here- Bond Phenomenon. If you have a Pokémon with 100 Link, you'd have the option to give it a Bond Phenomenon form- basically its version of Ash-Greninja. Maybe this idea warrants its own thread, but I think tying it to this idea makes a lot of sense, since it makes a big deal about the bond between Trainer and Pokémon, and how in sync they both are, which 100 Link would basically imply. I'm thinking, obviously, this would only be for fully-evolved Pokémon, and possibly restricted to one per Trainer. That said, that would mean we'd need an alternative to Bond Phenomenon for anything else you have with maxed out Link, so... well, making a custom move would work for that, wouldn't it?

Second

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Lemme compile a list of the potential perks that don't involve custom moves, and also not counting the pseudo-Serene Grace.

-Learning an Egg/MT move
-Potential to gain extra levels in zones
-Learning a TM move
-Happiness evolutions
-Healing itself from status conditions once per adventure
-Learning any one move of your choosing
-Create your own Custom Move/Z-Move
-Bond Phenomenon

I think that's all the ones we had come up with that haven't been shot down completely. Of them, obviously happiness evolutions must be a thing... Bond Phenomenon would be reserved for maxing out Link, and must have an alternative to choose from- probably the creating your own custom move or Z-Move. Here's my rough idea;

0 Link: Nothing!!! Yaaaaay!

10 Link: The Pokémon can more easily gain levels in zones. Once the Pokémon hits level 100, it can heal off any status conditions once per zone adventure without expending any energy to do so.

20 Link: The Pokémon learns an Egg/MT move. If it has all its Egg/MT moves, or doesn't get any, it can learn a non-standard MT move.

25 Link: Happiness evolutions can now occur. I didn't put this one at a multiple of 10 because I felt it should still be right in the middle, though if anyone disagrees, I'm not gonna insist on this.

30 Link: The Pokémon can learn a TM move of your choosing. It does not need to be compatible with said TM in the games. Question- should this encompass any moves that were available via TM in FB at any point? There've been a few that weren't in the games- Harden, Outrage, Seed Flare, Dark Void, and Heart Swap, off the top of my head.

40 Link: The Pokémon can learn any one move of our choosing, except for Sketch, Transform, and Shadow moves.

50 Link: You get to create a brand new Custom Move or custom Z-Move for the Pokémon, OR, you get to create a Bond Phenomenon form for the Pokémon (only one Bond Phenomenon form per member (or per Trainer character? Thoughts?).

MEDIAN DIA'S PROPOSAL

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0 Link- Jack squat and butternuts. (Are you really that surprised?)

10 Link- Learn an Egg or MT move (Presumably natural; if, for some reason, this function is not yet available to you, then take an MT Move you'd expected the pokemon to get when it finally does. <Dhelmise is currently in this situation, BTW>)

20 Link- When you Level Up in a Zone, you may gain an extra one

30 Link- Learn a TM Move (discussion still needs to be dona as to whether this must be natural or not)

40 Link- Either an extra $50 per Zone Reply OR Raves' reworked Gummi Bomb (A.K.A. Physical Hidden Power; discussion on whether or not this has to match the original version's type as well needs to occur)

50 Link- Any pokemon that evolve through Happiness in the main games may now do so (there is discussion as to whether or not Mega Evolution should be locked until now as well)

60 Link- Once per Zone Adventure, the pokemon can free itself from the grips of a Status Effect without using Energy

70 Link- When you gain a level in the Daycare Centre, you may gain an extra level OR Raves' Guardian Emera Attack

80 Link- Learn a move of your choice (Insert discussion on whether or not Legend Exclusive Moves or Shadow Attacks should be allowed here)

90 Link- It takes less fewer Zone Replies to capture a wild pokemon that has witnessed you

100 Link- Can now achieve the Bond Phenominon (limit one per profile); Make up a Custom Move for yourself if the previous option is unavailable or you do not wish to use it (BP needs to be discussed in and of itself; we should probably consider the implications of the CM's and Sketch <and potentially the 80 Link Mark>)

BALMUND'S PROPOSAL

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Link 0: Baseline. No perks.

Link 10: Your Pokemon is now forming a very unique bond with you. It responds better to you than any other. Return/Frustration are now stronger.

Link 20: Your Pokemon fights harder for you, increasing accuracy, evasion, critical hit and critical evasion. Return/Frustration are at their strongest. Enables friendship evolution when applicable.

Link 30: Your Pokemon fights even harder for you. It may temporarily or completely overcome a status effect when it needs it the most.

Link 40: A Pokemon's bond with you is so strong it can now potentially endure a knock out move on its own and gain a second wind. "Sturdy" is always prioritized over this.

Link 50: You and your Pokemon are like one, and have a perfect intuitive understanding of what the other is thinking. During battles, a Pokemon no longer needs verbal commands to act. A custom Z move can now be developed (requires appropriately-typed Z crystal).

LIT'S PROPOSAL

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0 Bond: No Bonuses gained

10 Bond: Pokemon have passive status resilience, making them harder to fall under the effects of non self-inflicted status.

20 Bond: Pokemon are more agile, allowing them a better chance to passively dodge moves.

30 Bond: A Pokemon will be able to learn one natural Egg Move that they haven't learned. If a Pokemon has already learned all of their egg moves, there is no additional bonus.

40 Bond: A Pokemon will be more resilient in battle, making them a bit harder to KO from an opponent more than the average of their species.

50 Bond: A Pokemon is truly starting to understand their trainer, allowing Happiness evolution. Additionally, the moves Return/Frustration will gain a considerable boost in power.

60 Bond: A Pokemon will be able to learn one natural Move Tutor move of their choice. if they have learned all of their Move Tutor moves, there is no additional bonus.

70 Bond: A Pokemon is toughened in battle and excels in combat. Pokemon will start each battle with a boost similar to Ancient Power.

80 Bond: A Pokemon can, once an adventure, shrug off a current status effect/mental ailments for the sake of their trainer.

90 Bond: A Pokemon can transcend its normal limitations, allowing it to learn ONE unnatural STAB move. This may not be a Legendary Move, or in the case of normal types, Transform or Sketch. (I.e A Chandelure could learn Flame Wheel or Shadow Sneak. but not Sacred Fire or Shadow Force. This also means it can only learn a new Ghost or Fire type move that it normally can't learn.)

100 Bond: The ultimate trust between trainer and Pokemon is achieved. Once per adventure a Pokemon will survive a fatal blow for their trainer, pushing past their limitations to serve their partner. The moves Return/Frustration will achieve a maximum boost in power, to showcase the bond between trainer and Pokemon.

Moves learned via Bond must be confirmed a the Move Tutor, due to this system being Optional . I heavily based this off of the bonuses from Pokemon-Amie, as well as some previous comments. Note, these bonuses are up to updater discretion.

This is just a basic system that can be implemented with probably a few minor kinks to work out. No Bond Phenomena, no completely unnatural moves (despite how much I want to teach my Litwick Moonblast xd), and no things such as EXP/Money boosts (which topics are already being discussed in different threads.) Thoughts?

MASK'S PROPOSAL

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My suggestion is as follows: drop all manner of Gummis and the IQ system, turn them into $1-$10 trinkets or treats. Rename the system Happiness / Bond / Link whatever you prefer (though maybe not Mood, since moods fluctuate and this doesn’t).

I propose the following tier approach:
• Rank 0: No bonus. Base value of Pokémon caught in the wild or from the Adoption Center.
• Rank 1: Pokémon gains 1 natural Egg or Tutor move. Base value of hatched Pokémon, since it’s a bond from the very moment of birth (and I think they already come with an extra move, so the current state of things ties into the bonus already)
• Rank 2: Pokémon learns Return (no bonus if known already)
• Rank 3: Pokémon gains a slight permanent boost to 1 stat of choice (representative of the specialized training that Pokémon receives from its Trainer’s raising style); if you wanna translate it into a number, let’s say +20%? Return powers up.
• Rank 4: Pokémon learns 1 move of choice, natural or unnatural, from the existing selection of in-game MTs and TMs, exception made to Advanced Moves (Blast Burn, Frenzy Plant, Hydro Cannon, Draco Meteor) and species-exclusive moves (Secret Sword, Relic Song, etc.). Return powers up.
• Rank 5: Happiness evolution unlocked. Pokémon’s STAB is 25% stronger (a nerfed Adaptability; stacks on Pokémon with this ability). Return powers up.

Rank-up methods:
• +1 Rank at each of the following Level milestones: 25, 50, 75 and 100 (can be applied retroactively, since people deserve something for bringing a Pokémon all the way to max level!)
• +1 Rank for significant Zone Battle won, updater discretion applies (a bump-on-the-road encounter like a Zubat may not be eligible for example)
• +1 Rank for adventure completed with that Pokémon having played an active role, updater discretion applies
• +1 Rank for evolving

These are simple suggestions, I’m not looking to make this mechanic neither too powerful nor too difficult to max out, and with fewer ranks there’s less for everyone to keep track of. All these points are debatable of course, I haven’t thought this through extensively and I haven’t read everyone’s thoughts on the matter, so feel free to take any other approach.

Thanks to everyone who's putting in the effort to move this (and everything else) forward! I'm still having a hard time adjusting to such a productive era of the game ^^

[Balmund]

I'd rather shoot even lower for happiness evolution. I'm personally more partial towards a value of 20-30 IQ/Bond/whatever. With this, no player is going to get an evolution without some moderate time shop grinding and will require a couple rounds of rping to speed up... but it will also maintain the option for an early evolution, and honestly, I don't see a problem with an early evo at all.

[Median Dia]

Hmm, Balmund does bring up a good point. I currently have a bit of a stockpile of things to lean on in order to push the rest of the way through my first Happiness evo, but after that I am kinda stuck. In any case, the evolution tier should definitely be on a multiple of 10 if we are doing the conversion thing, since we will likely be introducing decimals into the system otherwise and that's bound to get real nasty real fastlike!

[Missingno. Master]

If indeed we're going to be going by a 100-point system here, I got no problem with happiness evolutions occurring at rank 50. Obviously, I'm assuming here that Gummis will not by any stretch of the imagination be the only means to increase Link/Happiness/Friendship (whatever we end up calling it). We want to have to work somewhat for happiness evolutions, but at the same time, it shouldn't take several years to evolve Igglybuff into Jigglypuff. At the very least I'm thinking we'll need to implement more means of obtaining Gummis, as well as implementing the Soothe Bell somehow, and maybe awarding points based on usage in zones or Trainer battles, things of that nature.

[Gemini Spark]

I think we go 30 for unlocking happiness based evolutions, then give Pokemon 3 points for every one point they gained in the Salon and a 1:1 conversion for old IQ points. This way Bond levels aren't particularly crazy when carrying over points from multiple old systems, but certain evolutions are attainable within a few months.

Also, Marion brings up a good point: we don't need to fully implement the Bond system yet, we can just give Pokemon the ability to unlock their evolutions, get the weekly Wonder Gummi going, and discuss the rest of the perks later.

[Sandaa]

Well, because I have a lot of time on my hands and I'm a sucker for spreadsheets, here you go guys.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

I basically compiled all of the lists Marion shared and sorted them by the average level that each proposal suggested (for Mask's I just put them every 10 levels)

From here I think it could be a lot easier to narrow down the options *shrugs*

[deoxys]

Opinion: We don't know yet if we are going to do a 50 point system or a 100 point system, so the obvious solution to picking the best place for a Happiness/Friendship/Affection etc evolution is right around 30-35 Bond/Link/whatever. Since these are essentially a sort of leveling system in their own right, there's no reason to not make it something right around 30 - which I'm assuming means ~30 updates with that Pokemon, IIRC, or at least that's how one of the proposals worked. To me, that seems like a reasonable number for them to be able to evolve. Either way there's really no reason for it to be much higher than that, and higher tiers can grant more rewards later when we cross that bridge.

We can implement this immediately, and then continue to debate how many tiers we are doing, and retroactively give people other tier benefits later on once they have been created. So yeah, I'm gonna say 30, and it should be implemented ASAP.

[Marion Ette]

At the risk of doing something very unpopular, there are some systems we allowed in the early days of our modship that I think would be better tied to this system. I still want to allow relative freedom in FB, but I am realizing more and more that this freedom should be earned - we need things to work for, after all.

My proposal actually works in negative points, for those who obtain shadow Pokemon to work backwards from -50. It does make Shadow Pokemon far more of a detriment to own and maintain, but I personally think that Shadow Pokemon SHOULD be more difficult to own and work with. I am not certain if we would allow for villainous players to RP themselves converting their Pokemon into shadows, but this is a possibility that could be explored...

-50: Your Pokemon could not hate you more if it tried. It has become a SHADOW of its former self, and will be recolored to show this. It will obtain a shadow aura, as well. FRUSTRATION is at its maximum power. Your Pokemon will refuse to go to the Daycare, MT or Breeding Center, no matter how strongly you word your request. Shadow Pokémon have a 50% chance of either completely ignoring their trainers orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Freshly obtained Shadow Pokemon (from events and whatnot) start at this level. Your Pokemon will refuse to learn TMs if you offer them to it. Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle.


-40: Your Pokemon has a 40% chance of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Your Pokemon will refuse to learn TMs if you offer them to it. Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle.

-30: Your Pokemon has a 30% chance of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle.

-20: Your Pokemon has a 20% chance of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle.

-10: Your Pokemon has a 10% chance of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use.

0: Your Pokemon is neutral toward you. No benefits or drawbacks at this level. Shadow Pokemon are reverted to normal, UNLESS a fee of $1000 is paid to maintain a convincing glamour of the Pokemon's former shadow form. Non-shadow Pokemon start here by default.

10: Your Pokemon can utilize the Move Relearner.

20: Your Pokemon can utilize any TM - even those outside its species limitations. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.

30: Happiness evolutions can occur at this stage. The Pokemon can learn TM Gummi Bomb. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.

40: The Pokemon can learn Guardian Terrain. Advanced/Shadow moves can now be learned by this Pokemon at the MT. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.

50: MAXIMUM. Daycare levels earned for this Pokemon are doubled. This Pokemon will earn a special aura for being max IQ. Pokemon at both max level and max IQ learn Defensive Shield. RETURN is at maximum power. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.

[Sandaa]

I like it. A couple of notes/questions I would add would be, first, how will existing Happiness points be converted into the system? Secondly, I think for the Shadow section, it might be best to include the higher tiers in the descriptions of the lower tiers to eliminate confusion. (ex. -30: Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you AND your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle.)

[Missingno. Master]

Part of me isn't exactly thrilled about this, but on the other hand, I do agree that some things ought to be worked for. Overall, it's an interesting system. Question- I'm guessing previously earned Happiness Points and IQ would factor into this, but in the case of Shadow Pokémon, what of any Purification Points they might have earned under the old system?

[deoxys]

Some quick thoughts:

Maybe you could tone down how horrible it is to use a shadow Pokemon, ever so slightly. People would be inclined to never use them in updates, period, thus they become useless - unless they get purified. People would need incentive to use a shadow pokemon in an update to help bring up its bond, or to lower it even further - I understand why you chose the tiers you did, I'm just saying that they do get a bit excessive, and could be extremely hard to work with if you catch a shadow Pokemon like that from scratch. Purification would be the only option, unless you were willing to tough out a loooot of updates spent with that Pokemon for the sake of storytelling. I mean, it could be interesting to have to deal with an unruly, untamed Pokemon that might even go against your will, but I could also see it begin un-fun if not handled properly.

Otherwise... this system isn't bad at all. Just needs some tweaks.

[Marion Ette]

Originally Posted by Sandaa

I like it. A couple of notes/questions I would add would be, first, how will existing Happiness points be converted into the system? Secondly, I think for the Shadow section, it might be best to include the higher tiers in the descriptions of the lower tiers to eliminate confusion. (ex. -30: Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you AND your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle.)

I think the fairest way (at least with this system) would be to have 1 Happiness Point = 3 IQ Points (added in addition to current IQ points - maximum IQ 50). That way, someone at max happiness in the old system would still have sufficient happiness points to maintain their evolution.

Also, if we have people with IQ points over 50 from the old system, I have no problem just letting them have max level in the current system. I briefly considered dividing IQ by 2 for everyone, but I think this way is probably better, personally.

I will edit the post to clarify how the benefits and drawbacks carry over as happiness/IQ increases or decreases, since with both positive and negative in this system, it can get confusing.

I appreciate the feedback!

:EDIT: Just saw MM and Deo's responses... Will be editing in responses of my own shortly!

Originally Posted by Missingno. Master

Part of me isn't exactly thrilled about this, but on the other hand, I do agree that some things ought to be worked for. Overall, it's an interesting system. Question- I'm guessing previously earned Happiness Points and IQ would factor into this, but in the case of Shadow Pokémon, what of any Purification Points they might have earned under the old system?

Originally Posted by deoxys

Some quick thoughts:

Maybe you could tone down how horrible it is to use a shadow Pokemon, ever so slightly. People would be inclined to never use them in updates, period, thus they become useless - unless they get purified. People would need incentive to use a shadow pokemon in an update to help bring up its bond, or to lower it even further - I understand why you chose the tiers you did, I'm just saying that they do get a bit excessive, and could be extremely hard to work with if you catch a shadow Pokemon like that from scratch. Purification would be the only option, unless you were willing to tough out a loooot of updates spent with that Pokemon for the sake of storytelling. I mean, it could be interesting to have to deal with an unruly, untamed Pokemon that might even go against your will, but I could also see it begin un-fun if not handled properly.

Otherwise... this system isn't bad at all. Just needs some tweaks.

Ah, yes! This reminds me... Purification points were originally on a 20 point scale, yes? I mean, actually, that may be a way to address both your concern and Deo's - instead of the 50 point negative system, the negative system could be based on 20 points, with negative effects scaling every 5 points instead of every 10. Positive points would still be on a scale of 50. That way, the purification system would operate on a perfect 1 to 1 ratio. It doesn't decrease the negative aspects of having a Shadow Pokemon that much, sure, BUT it does make it a lot less of a slog to reverse.

So, something like:


-20: Your Pokemon could not hate you more if it tried. It has become a SHADOW of its former self, and will be recolored to show this. It will obtain a shadow aura, as well. FRUSTRATION is at its maximum power. Your Pokemon will refuse to go to the Daycare, MT or Breeding Center, no matter how strongly you word your request. Shadow Pokémon have a 25% chance of either completely ignoring their trainers orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Freshly obtained Shadow Pokemon (from events and whatnot) start at this level. Your Pokemon will refuse to learn TMs if you offer them to it. Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle.

-15: Your Pokemon has a 20% chance of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Your Pokemon will refuse to learn TMs if you offer them to it. Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle.

-10: Your Pokemon has a 15% chance of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Your Pokemon will not accept held items from you. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle.

-5: Your Pokemon has a 10% chance of either completely ignoring your orders and not attacking at all, or of using a move from their existing movepool they've not been instructed to use. Your Pokemon will refuse to participate in Incognito Isle.

0: Your Pokemon is neutral toward you. No benefits or drawbacks at this level. Shadow Pokemon are reverted to normal, UNLESS a fee of $1000 is paid to maintain a convincing glamour of the Pokemon's former shadow form. Non-shadow Pokemon start here by default.

10: Your Pokemon can utilize the Move Relearner.

20: Your Pokemon can utilize any TM - even those outside its species limitations. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.

30: Happiness evolutions can occur at this stage. The Pokemon can learn TM Gummi Bomb. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.

40: The Pokemon can learn Guardian Terrain. Advanced/Shadow moves can now be learned by this Pokemon at the MT. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.

50: MAXIMUM. Daycare levels earned for this Pokemon are doubled. This Pokemon will earn a special aura for being max IQ. Pokemon at both max level and max IQ learn Defensive Shield. RETURN is at maximum power. All previous bonuses above 0 apply.

[Sandaa]

One other question I forgot to ask is, how will these Bond points be gained? Obviously there will be gummis/birthdays, but what about zones?

[deoxys]

Side note: Pokepuffs > Gummis

[Marion Ette]

Originally Posted by Sandaa

One other question I forgot to ask is, how will these Bond points be gained? Obviously there will be gummis/birthdays, but what about zones?

We'll have a shop that basically combines the Shadow, IQ and happiness shops into one, for people to maintain records of updates and IQ/happiness items given to Pokemon, as well as confirm happiness evolutions and benefits earned. Every adventure reply a person makes with that Pokemon actively participating will earn 1 point. This keeps the tracking out of the updaters' hands and into those who want to participate in this system.

I know it's going to be a bit of extra tracking - but I think combining IQ, purification and happiness will mean that there's a lot less to keep track of than with the old systems.

Also, thematically we could have gummis, Pokepuffs and Pokebeans, which all do the same thing but are given out in different areas depending on what makes sense thematically. (Incognito Isle could still give out gummis, for example, while the Birthday Bash gives out birthday cake flavored Pokepuffs.)

[Lil'twick]

And what of the proposed Pokeballs and other mechanics stated in the CAP/Shadow Thread? How will these factor into this system if they are approved? Spoilering so people can see it if they want to. By it I mean the Pokeballs.

Spoiler: show

Agate Ball- A Pokemon made of old stone and petrified wood. Filled with the purification energies of Agate Forest, Shadow Pokemon in these balls purify at double standard rate. Pokemon in these balls also gain Happiness faster.

Cipher Ball- Corrupted Pokeballs created by Cipher, Pokemon caught in these Pokeballs are corrupted turn into Shadow Pokemon. These cannot be used on currently owned Pokemon.

Snagem Ball- Pokeballs fashioned after Team Snagem, these balls make it so Shadow Pokemon purify at half the normal rate. However, they will be completely tame. This Pokeball increases the catch rate against Shadow Pokemon as well.

[Gemini Spark]

I like this new system a lot better, if only because it'd be easier to convert any purification/IQ/happiness points over from the old system. I did notice people complaining about custom moves being involved with other IQ systems suggested; I personally don't have a problem with them, but if too many people do what might be some alternatives we could have in place for the custom moves?

[Marion Ette]

Originally Posted by Lil'twick

And what of the proposed Pokeballs and other mechanics stated in the CAP/Shadow Thread? How will these factor into this system if they are approved? Spoilering so people can see it if they want to. By it I mean the Pokeballs.

Spoiler: show

Agate Ball- A Pokemon made of old stone and petrified wood. Filled with the purification energies of Agate Forest, Shadow Pokemon in these balls purify at double standard rate. Pokemon in these balls also gain Happiness faster.

Cipher Ball- Corrupted Pokeballs created by Cipher, Pokemon caught in these Pokeballs are corrupted turn into Shadow Pokemon. These cannot be used on currently owned Pokemon.

Snagem Ball- Pokeballs fashioned after Team Snagem, these balls make it so Shadow Pokemon purify at half the normal rate. However, they will be completely tame. This Pokeball increases the catch rate against Shadow Pokemon as well.

I am fine incorporating these Pokeballs into the system as-is. I would like to make them very rare items, though.

Originally Posted by Gemini Spark

I like this new system a lot better, if only because it'd be easier to convert any purification/IQ/happiness points over from the old system. I did notice people complaining about custom moves being involved with other IQ systems suggested; I personally don't have a problem with them, but if too many people do what might be some alternatives we could have in place for the custom moves?

We could have it be "alternatively, your Pokemon may learn 1 EM/MT move of choice" for Gummi Bomb, "one advanced/shadow move of choice" for Guardian terrain and "one EM/MT move of choice PLUS one advanced/shadow move of choice" for Defensive Shield. That seem fair?

[Missingno. Master]

I'm liking this idea more and more. I'm also liking the alternatives for the custom moves as well.

And as long as we're discussing Shadow Pokémon here, I'd like to revive the discussion regarding purification moves for purified Shadow Pokémon. Any thoughts? Back in this thread, some ideas were brought up, such as allowing purified Shadow Pokémon to learn a small assortment of moves that were purification-exclusive on Shadow Pokémon in XD (Charm, Helping Hand, Heal Bell, and the like), and even allowing purified Pokémon to retain their Shadow moves. Personally, I'm leaning more towards the latter, considering a bunch of the purification-only moves are MTs that can be taught to anything anyway, and we already seem to be leaning towards letting non-Shadows learn Shadow moves.

[Nerd Violence]

Oh man, I am so into Marion's system that it isn't even funny.

Does this mean I could actually get my Shadow Vaporeon???

NGL I still don't love CMs but as long as they're optional, I could be willing to take some EM/MT/AMs and double daycare levels as my perks and call it a day.

[TheKnightsFury]

Are Advanced moves like Draco Meteor and Pledges?

By Move Relearner are you referring to the Move Tutor? If so I really don't like the idea of not being able to access it straight away. Some Pokemon get absolutely nothing to help them out early on and this can make it really hard to RP with them and level them outside of Daycare.