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Old 08-02-2015, 10:35 AM   #4301
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The monsters can't be disrupted at all, they turn into beaters with the field spell, they have chainable, powerful backrow and every monster is a Stratos, searching out S/T or stun monsters every turn.
From actually playing the deck:

The monsters can be disrupted. Summon negation in particular is a massive ballache because the deck has no recovery ability. Popping their scales will stop them in their tracks because they are prone to bricking. If we can get rid of the Melodious lock, and if we can get rid of a Nekroz of Clausolas with Djinn, Trishula, and Gungnir, I don't think its a stretch to say we can stop their monsters.

The field spell doesn't turn every single one of the them into beaters. It makes Unicorn 2300 and that's kinda not relevant, it makes Fox an 1800 beater (which is the only one that's relevant) and everyone else is either middling (Raccoon) or just becomes walls (Cat, Crow). The deck's offense is kinda middling.

The only good backrow are the traps. The first trap (which I only run 2 of) is good because it banishes while the Counter Trap is obviously pretty broken but its not the end of the world. I could very easily just rip this deck to shreds with something like Denko Dolls. They can't get rid of Construct with the Counter Trap which is very good. The spell is alright but it runs the "It destroys" risk.

It's a good deck and it will probably need adapting to, just like Qliphorts did. But is it broken? I really, really, doubt that. It's a good control deck and with Magicians (especially Xiangke) its pretty dumb but again: that's Magician's fault.
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Old 08-02-2015, 12:55 PM   #4302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
The monsters can be disrupted. Summon negation in particular is a massive ballache because the deck has no recovery ability. Popping their scales will stop them in their tracks because they are prone to bricking. If we can get rid of the Melodious lock, and if we can get rid of a Nekroz of Clausolas with Djinn, Trishula, and Gungnir, I don't think its a stretch to say we can stop their monsters.
This assumes one crucial fact: you go first, and can stomach the -1 going first.

I go second whenever possible because, along with six cards, combos are more powerful working on picking apart an opponent's field and the lower card opening is more prone to bricking them.

I've had 11 games against Majespectres and went first against them twice. I won once. The cap above was the only time I won against them going second, so if 8/9 times they don't brick, I don't think consistency is an issue.

Summoning negation, you are clearly thinking of Warning, a limited card. But aside from that there's almost nothing generic that's going to get it done against this deck. Forced Back? The Horns? They Normal Summon or use the Field Spell to bypass it. And it's not like their searchable traps are their only options.

Mask of Restrict is the best card against them, since all of their chainables require a tribute, as does Unicorn. But again that's a super situational card and doesn't help if you're going second, as you'd need to wait until Turn 4 (!!) to make a push, after which they have two turns to rampage about.

I'd use Herald of Orange Light if all my monsters were fairies. >_>
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Old 08-02-2015, 02:41 PM   #4303
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If going first, I wonder if two Stardust Dragon + Dark Law is actually the worst field for Pendulums. A ton of them involve using destruction effects to search out more Pendulums, and even under the influence of Pendulum Call Stardust still negates their effects.
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Old 08-02-2015, 02:42 PM   #4304
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This assumes one crucial fact: you go first, and can stomach the -1 going first.
Most decks can stomach the -1 going first.

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Summoning negation, you are clearly thinking of Warning, a limited card. But aside from that there's almost nothing generic that's going to get it done against this deck. Forced Back? The Horns? They Normal Summon or use the Field Spell to bypass it. And it's not like their searchable traps are their only options.
They cannot, at all, use the full power of their backrow without the Pendulum mechanic. They also can't pop backrow, so the Horns are indeed good enough in this regard. If they don't Pendulum Summon, they are basically just a worse Traptrix.

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Mask of Restrict is the best card against them, since all of their chainables require a tribute, as does Unicorn. But again that's a super situational card and doesn't help if you're going second, as you'd need to wait until Turn 4 (!!) to make a push, after which they have two turns to rampage about.
Actually the best cards to use are Mistake and Poisonous Winds, although really you still run the issue of people run Magicians not only to Pendulum Summon Unicorn but also give them the ability to pop S/T. Mask of Restrict isn't a very useful card as it shows against Qliphort, whose entire gimmick is Tribute Summoning.
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Old 08-02-2015, 02:51 PM   #4305
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Most decks can stomach the -1 going first.
No, absolutely not. Giving an opponent a +1 is better than going -1 yourself, because you have fewer cards with which to generate future plusses. It's not just with my deck, but any other deck that isn't stun is overwhelmingly going to lose going first due to an increased chance of bricking.

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They also can't pop backrow, so the Horns are indeed good enough in this regard. If they don't Pendulum Summon, they are basically just a worse Traptrix.
They are hexproof, while Traptrix are only immune to Holes. They are not worse, they are better. Popping backrow doesn't matter if your cards are practically immune to them anyway. They run MST to stop floodgates and floodgates that aren't Kaiser Colosseum won't help if you go second.

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Actually the best cards to use are Mistake and Poisonous Winds, although really you still run the issue of people run Magicians not only to Pendulum Summon Unicorn but also give them the ability to pop S/T. Mask of Restrict isn't a very useful card as it shows against Qliphort, whose entire gimmick is Tribute Summoning.
Both cards again don't help you playing second, and consider a card that is Wind, Tributes itself in a deck that relies heavily on searching. Even Mask of Restrict is not ideal for me, I'd rather use Mind Crush. In fact that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world against Pendulums to be honest.
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Old 08-02-2015, 03:09 PM   #4306
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No, absolutely not. Giving an opponent a +1 is better than going -1 yourself, because you have fewer cards with which to generate future plusses. It's not just with my deck, but any other deck that isn't stun is overwhelmingly going to lose going first due to an increased chance of bricking.
I feel you are taking experiences with your deck and extrapolating them to a lot of other decks without having the experience with them. The _only_ deck that I've found that really dislikes going first is Burning Abyss, and that has nothing to do with having fewer cards, it has to do with Dante only being a two-shot which means you can't use Dante's effect going first.

Quote:
They are hexproof, while Traptrix are only immune to Holes. They are not worse, they are better. Popping backrow doesn't matter if your cards are practically immune to them anyway. They run MST to stop floodgates and floodgates that aren't Kaiser Colosseum won't help if you go second.
Traptrix are also hexproof and battleproof with their new XYZ. Trap Holes don't require you to tribute a monster to use them. Traptrix can keep their traps safe from Denko Sekka, Royal Decree, and Trap Stun. They have amazing recovery ability in Dionaea and they can activate their traps from the Deck if they need to.

What can Majespecters do with Pendulum Summoning? They search backrow that forces them to minus in order to use it (this is why no one used the Spiritual Art traps), they can't summon Unicorn effectively, they can't really do much of anything because they run on such limited resources.

Without Pendulum Summoning, Majespecters are a worse Traptrix. Hence, preventing or disrupting the Pendulum Summon is once of the best ways of beating the deck. Hence, the Horns are useful. Just like Book of Eclipse was useful against Nekroz.

Quote:
Both cards again don't help you playing second, and consider a card that is Wind, Tributes itself in a deck that relies heavily on searching. Even Mask of Restrict is not ideal for me, I'd rather use Mind Crush. In fact that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world against Pendulums to be honest.
Quote:
Mask of Restrict is the best card against them
You can say "in my deck" next time because there are plenty of decks that don't care about Mistake or Poisonous Winds that can use them. Both cripple the deck a lot more than Mask of Restrict, especially since Restrict doesn't prevent them from going into the pretty ridiculous Lightning Chidori.
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Old 08-02-2015, 10:29 PM   #4307
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Thank gosh for Shaddoll Dragon. He saved my arse there.

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I feel you are taking experiences with your deck and extrapolating them to a lot of other decks without having the experience with them. The _only_ deck that I've found that really dislikes going first is Burning Abyss, and that has nothing to do with having fewer cards, it has to do with Dante only being a two-shot which means you can't use Dante's effect going first.
The vast majority of DN players I've played, when I lose the RPS, usually have me play first. I do the same when I win the RPS. I've put up a 60% winning percentage in the time since then (I have a statistically significant RPS strategy, too).

I've played almost 1200 games since that rule has been put into place - clearly, the crowd knows something, if I see it so consistently across many different decks.

Perhaps this isn't exactly the question we're debating. When given a choice, players often prefer to go second. But that doesn't mean decks can't do badly during Turn 1, either. I mean, if I get lucky and draw a decent opening Turn 1, chances are I'm going to win the game. Unless I draw three MST vs Lightsworn. :<

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Traptrix are also hexproof and battleproof with their new XYZ. Trap Holes don't require you to tribute a monster to use them. Traptrix can keep their traps safe from Denko Sekka, Royal Decree, and Trap Stun. They have amazing recovery ability in Dionaea and they can activate their traps from the Deck if they need to.
I haven't faced Traptrix recently, but historically I did okay against HAT. Effect Veiler can still stop the Traptrix and if they go first, Normal Summon Myrmelo and that is disrupted, they're in a bit of a bind. BTS is effective against the Artifacts as was Vanity and similar nasty stuff. Granted, I did not like facing them but I have much more powerful backrow removal now than I did in formats past.

None of that S/T disruption applies to Majespectres. You can't destroy them or stop their effects short of Skill Drain or Lose a Turn.

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What can Majespecters do with Pendulum Summoning? They search backrow that forces them to minus in order to use it (this is why no one used the Spiritual Art traps), they can't summon Unicorn effectively, they can't really do much of anything because they run on such limited resources.

Without Pendulum Summoning, Majespecters are a worse Traptrix. Hence, preventing or disrupting the Pendulum Summon is once of the best ways of beating the deck. Hence, the Horns are useful. Just like Book of Eclipse was useful against Nekroz.
You can't separate Pendulum Summoning from Majespectres in the same way you can't separate them being hexproof. If they weren't hexproof, they'd be Infernity, Special Summon spamming to search out S/T. If they couldn't Pendulum Summon, they'd be Traptrix.

But they're both, and that's the problem. It isn't an issue of Pendulum Summons being broken, it's an issue of this archetype getting the effects that then break Pendulum Summoning.
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Old 08-02-2015, 10:33 PM   #4308
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I think more what Emi's saying in taking away their Pendulum Summoning is if you hit them with Spell Shattering Arrow or similar, they're in a bit of a bind.
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Old 08-02-2015, 10:39 PM   #4309
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I don't agree at all. Especially when they could chain Wavering Eyes to your SSA. Targeting the Pendulum Zones is the wrong way to approach this deck, especially if they go first.
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Old 08-02-2015, 10:40 PM   #4310
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Nah, I think the problem is Pendulum Summoning making their backrow costless and pretty much riskfree since you never lose resources. Like, that's probably the one issue in my opinion. It's not that they are hexproof, since they don't have big bodies, its not that they are Stratos's, because why they search outside of possibly Unicore isn't exactly special. It's the fact that they can continually keep card advantage despite using backrow that should -1 them. You have to have more resources than they have outs, and that's not easy. Combine that with XYZs like Totem Bird and Lightning Chidori and its a problem.

Facing this deck, I would either stop its searching ability or its ability to Pendulum Shokan. Those are the big things.

EDIT: Wavering Eyes really needs a hit its bloody stupid.
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Old 08-02-2015, 10:53 PM   #4311
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This win v. Majespectres might lend credence to blaze's theory but I'm still skeptical.



He sets three, I attack with Shaddoll Dragon and set three (one MST, one bluff Raigeki, and MC2).

He plays a Magician and Majespectre in his Pendulum Zones, I use MC2, he then chains Wavering Eyes to draw ahead of the Dark Law summon, adding another Magician. I use dragon to pop one of his sets since there aren't anymore Pendulum Zones.

At this point, he has one set (which I assume to be one of the Majespectre backrow) and completely commits his hand to the Pendulum Zone. I MST the duplicate Magician to what he had in his Extra Deck. I win after top-decking Junk Synchron.

I ended up hitting the zones, but only AFTER HE HAD NOTHING LEFT IN HAND! One of the biggest pains is MST a Pendulum Zone and the player just replaces the destroyed monster. I had his balls in a vice grip this game and that's what saved me.

Dark Law is my MVP.
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Old 08-02-2015, 11:01 PM   #4312
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OH yeah speaking of

What do you think about THE FLAMING MOLTRES MIRROR FORCE

I find it kind of weird its Mirror Force + ROD personally.
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Old 08-02-2015, 11:11 PM   #4313
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It's lame because it isn't abuseable with Hanewata. None of the new burn cards or the nerfed ROD are.



I'm close to 1200 rating again, after which I'll duck out of this format unless my cards go TCG legal, as blaze has said they should be. I'll just hit matches with Majespectre Magicians.

I tend to avoid Matches unless there's an un-skilled broken deck to abuse in them and get free wins. Last time I went nuts were in Dragon Ruler formats. Well, there's a new broken T1 in town!
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Old 08-02-2015, 11:18 PM   #4314
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Tatsunoko is going to be TCG-legal the 6th. I don't know when Accel Synchron will be. I had thought Synchron Extreme had already been released.
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Old 08-02-2015, 11:23 PM   #4315
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Part 10: Negation!

See: Why you can activate another "Pot of Duality" if the first's activation is negated, and why Effect Veiler stops Cardcar D, but not Skill Drain!

Also didn't realize Lose 1 Turn was like Skill Drain.
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Old 08-02-2015, 11:23 PM   #4316
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Yeah I can wait a week. I need to pirate some Majespectre builds. One of the lamest things from the previous format was I never played Nekroz because I was too lazy to learn how the deck works.



I really need to put in, IF YOU DON'T FOLLOW THESE LINKS AND STILL CALL THE ADMIN, PREPARE FOR THE CONSEQUENCES!

Because it totally happens. A lot.
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Old 08-02-2015, 11:29 PM   #4317
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2x Majispecter Unicorn
3x Dracoslayer Luster Pendulum
3x Majispecter Fox
2x Majispecter Crow
3x Majispecter Raccoon
3x Archfiend Eccentrick
2x Majispecter Cat

1x Raigeki
1x Majispecter Storm
2x Majispecter Cyclone
2x Terraforming
3x Majestic Pegasus
1x Book of Moon

1x Bottomless Trap Hole
2x Majispecter Tornado
3x Majispecter Tempest
1x Torrential Tribute
1x Solemn Warning
1x Compulsory Evacuation Device
1x Vanity's Emptiness
2x Blazing Mirror Force

2x Prominence, the Blasting Dracoslayer
1x Dark Rebellion XYZ Dragon
1x Number 103: Ragnazero
1x Castel, the Avian Skyblaster
2x Lightning Chidori
1x Evilswarm Exciton Knight
1x Majester Paladin, the Soaring Dracoslayer
1x Daigusto Emeral
1x Abyss Dweller
1x Number 80: Rhapsody in Berserk
2x Totem Bird
1x Ghostrick Alucard

Boop?
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Old 08-03-2015, 12:36 AM   #4318
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I used that deck and it bricked.

I sure look silly. Maybe it's a Singles dominating deck?
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Old 08-03-2015, 12:41 AM   #4319
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WTF is a Psyframe Omega?
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Old 08-03-2015, 12:48 AM   #4320
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A not terribly good card.

Zeta is sooooooo much better.
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Old 08-03-2015, 12:58 AM   #4321
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I disagree. It looks to me like Zeta sucks, while Omega is omgwtfbroken.

Alpha and Gamma are both excellent cards too, Alpha in particular fits that very broken criteria of being a Level 1, LIGHT Psychic, meaning there's no longer an issue running E-Teleport to bring it out.

Gamma is just amazing, it fits the Herald of Orange Light niche I mentioned earlier, and Junk Synchron can summon it. Just, needing to run Diver is kind of lame.

Omega is just...consider this. When I get a good opening on the first turn, I usually banish 2 cards from the opponent's hand, one with Trishula, the other with Dark Law. With Omega, I'd banish THREE cards, so they open with three on their turn.

It's very freaking unlikely anyone is going to do much with three cards against the fields I make. The most powerful would be Denko + Shaddoll Fusion, but even that's not guaranteed if I've got Effect Veilers in hand.
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Old 08-03-2015, 01:12 AM   #4322
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Zeta is point removal for most monsters on your opponent's field and shuts down pretty much all XYZs.

Omega is Appointer of the Red Lotus.

Gamma and Beta are both extremely good and iirc you only ever need to run one Driver.
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Old 08-03-2015, 01:24 AM   #4323
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OMFG
[10:56:18 PM] Abyssal Emi: THEY RARITY BUMPED AROMAGES
[10:56:19 PM] Abyssal Emi: WHY
[10:56:21 PM] Abyssal Emi: WHY
[11:00:02 PM] Abyssal Emi: Why is Jasmine a fucking Secret
[11:00:21 PM] Abyssal Emi: WHY WAS ROSEMARY BUMPED FROM A COMMON TO A FUKKEN ULTRA RARE

Konami with their dick moves
This shit right here is exactly why I will never play YGO outside of online.
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Old 08-03-2015, 02:01 AM   #4324
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Zeta is point removal for most monsters on your opponent's field and shuts down pretty much all XYZs.
It dies to Raigeki, though. Like Clear Wing, it suffers from the same problem of trying to sit on a boss without protection, something which Omega doesn't have to deal with.

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Omega is Appointer of the Red Lotus.
Oh come now, it's much, much better than that.

Its blink effect is chainable, and if the opponent is dumb and tries to set their hand, whatever they add (which will have a higher value than the searcher) will get sniped. Moreover, since it clears up a monster space, that allows for more spamming with Librarian, and if you fill up the field Omega won't return with the card it banished. If Thunder King is out, that's a neg from the sacred hand every single turn.

The effect is really similar to Stardust Dragon. I've always maintained that Stardust is a great card because it negs the opponent while protecting itself. This makes sets it apart from its evolutionary brethren in the Spark and Shooting lines, which protect themselves but not other monsters and don't directly neg the opponent.

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Originally Posted by Emi View Post
Gamma and Beta are both extremely good and iirc you only ever need to run one Driver.
But they are banished at the end of the turn? The only way using that would make since is if you had Formula out, who could Synchro while Driver is summoned and not banished.

...

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Last edited by Doppleganger; 08-03-2015 at 02:56 AM.
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Old 08-03-2015, 09:26 AM   #4325
Emi
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Quote:
But they are banished at the end of the turn? The only way using that would make since is if you had Formula out, who could Synchro while Driver is summoned and not banished.
oh yeah, i have no idea why they did that.
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