06-22-2012, 08:37 AM | #101 |
Double Dragon
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,776
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Kuno, you mean UPN Challenge Cup or regular Challenge Cup? Either way, I'll be available, unless something unexpected comes up last minute. (Which has been happening to me the last few days, for whatever reason.)
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06-22-2012, 09:01 AM | #102 |
The hostess with the mostess
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 226,522
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Yeah, regular CC. I'm on my phone so its hard to type much or talk much on there. I can get on now cause I'm bored but I'm on break now.
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06-22-2012, 09:18 AM | #103 |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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Guess I'll sign in.
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06-22-2012, 09:23 AM | #104 |
Double Dragon
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,776
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All right, I'll be there as well.
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06-22-2012, 11:14 AM | #105 |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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Final scores (in terms of UPN wins and losses) against Kuno's kids:
Talon: 1-2 Rangeet: 0-1 (had to leave) Kind: 2-0 phoopes: 2-1 Yuki: 2-1 I blame hax and mistaking Unfezant's sprite for Gloom's with my glasses off. *pout* Otherwise I think it was fairly typical CC: you win some, you lose some, hooray randomness. Apparently one girl in Kuno's group was quite lucky and was racking up the wins. Makes me wonder if the other kids were burdened with their unfair share or losses then.
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06-22-2012, 12:03 PM | #106 |
The hostess with the mostess
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 226,522
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Kids are back for now
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06-22-2012, 03:53 PM | #107 |
大事なのは自分らしいくある事
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Determined
Posts: 5,840
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Turns out I missed a lot of a long discussion, but, as a UU player, I would be perfectly fine with a teir between UU and OU. I really don't get what others might have against it- if you're a UU player that enjoys what you have in UU, just use it in the new teir. :/
Though, Talon, what you said about legendaries always dominating is flat out false. Articuno? Regigigas? Moltres? Celebi? Entei? Mesprit? Azelf? Uxie? lolPhione? Shaymin? Cobalion? Virizion? None of these 'dominate'. That isn't to say that they aren't usable- that's the entire point of tiers, to give everything a use- but they don't dominate. If something is really dominating that much, then it should be sent up to the next tier. Notice I said 'sent up' rather than 'banned'- too often do people equate being 'banned' with being no longer usable. It just means that they're in the next level of play, and you're gonna need big guns if you wanna play with the big boys. Actually, imop, if their was a tier between OU and UU, all of your team members would likely be in it. Actually, that would be one hell of a awesome tier. Actually, WAIT ONE SECOND. We're an online community, are we not? We have a personal channel, do we not? We could just craft up our own list for a... Fairly Used? Tier, use it against eachother, and eventually gather up support from other communities until it become a reality in places other than UPN! ^_^
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Last edited by Kindrindra; 06-22-2012 at 03:53 PM. Reason: Used wrong 'they're' |
06-22-2012, 04:05 PM | #108 |
Dragon's Tears
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Searching for light
Posts: 6,469
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F U?
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06-22-2012, 04:06 PM | #109 |
大事なのは自分らしいくある事
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Determined
Posts: 5,840
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Err.
Okay, maybe the name needs a little more thought. |
06-22-2012, 04:29 PM | #110 |
Primordial Fishbeast
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Remind me where RU is? Also isn't BL between UU and OU?
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06-22-2012, 04:34 PM | #111 |
大事なのは自分らしいくある事
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Determined
Posts: 5,840
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RU is below UU, above NU.
BL is between UU and OU, but it's not an actual tier for some odd, strange reason- just a banlist for UU. |
06-22-2012, 04:35 PM | #112 |
Primordial Fishbeast
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You could just do what I used to - be awesome and use UUs in OU. It's fun, especially when you win.
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06-22-2012, 04:37 PM | #113 |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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BL is a pseudo-tier with current occupancy less than 20. We were talking about an actual tier in that spot, one which would nab the bottom third to half of current OU and the top quarter or so of current UU. To give you some idea of who you could expect to see there ...
Not saying you have to like or agree with this idea. Just clarifying that this was the discussion.
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06-22-2012, 05:14 PM | #114 |
Double Dragon
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,776
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I'd definitely have some beef with Skarmory in FU. It's a wonderful physical wall that's used on a lot of teams in OU, and there are already lots of walls in the FU tier in the first place. Because can you really disagree with Chansey, Jellicent, Dusclops, Deoxys-D, and others, not to mention the fact that UU walls would be allowed as well. As a physical wall, it outclasses all listed above in terms of physical defense save Dusclops, but Skarmory also has reliable recovery in Roost whereas Dusclops does not. Based on the amount of usage in OU and a probable centralization around it being used as a wall, I would be against seeing Skarmory in FU.
Also, I'd support the name Gently Used or Moderately Used over Fairly Used, even though it is quite fun to use its abbreviation. EDIT: Also, I just thought of it: If we really are going through with this, we need a full list of candidates.
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Last edited by phoopes; 06-22-2012 at 05:17 PM. |
06-22-2012, 05:45 PM | #115 |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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Skarmory can be OHKO'd by non-STAB Flamethrower? Yes. (Togekiss, regularly.)
Skarmory can be OHKO'd by non-STAB Thunderbolt? Yes. (Starmie, regularly.) Skarmory is scary powerful? No, not usually. He's a good wall. So is Tentacruel. So is Weezing. So is Chansey. So are a lot of other UUs. I agree that Skarmory is OU in the IRL tiering system ... but if we were to discuss whether he's OU top half or OU bottom half, I feel like he's OU bottom half. The top of OU bottom half, but still OU bottom half. But hey, if you want to keep Skarmory locked out of FU, I am happy with that.
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06-22-2012, 06:02 PM | #116 |
Double Dragon
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,776
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Well, we could vote on each on a case-by-case basis. I personally would vote for Skarmory for OU, and it looks like you'd vote for it for FU, GU, MU, whatever. Anyway, I have compiled a list here of things in OU that certainly have no place in a lower tier, in my opinion. If everyone else feels the same way, then we can go from there with what to allow and disallow. I think that it's good to narrow it down a little bit from the 110 UU, BL, and OU Pokemon that we have to pick from.
Definitely OU: Blissey Conkeldurr Dragonite Ferrothorn Heatran Jirachi Landorus Latios Ninetales Politoed Salamence Scizor Terrakion Tyranitar Iffy, but I personally think should be OU: Alakazam Breloom Gliscor Gyarados Jolteon Latias Lucario Metagross Reuniclus Rotom-W Skarmory Starmie Tornadus Virizion Under what I have here, 28 Pokemon would remain in OU, while the leftover 22 would be on for debate in FU. Of course, I know that the Iffy list will definitely be disagreed with, but I don't know of anyone that could disagree with the guaranteed list I made. But if you do, feel free to make your opinion heard. There's probably one or two things I didn't think of, so point those out.
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Last edited by phoopes; 06-22-2012 at 07:13 PM. |
06-22-2012, 06:07 PM | #117 |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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Really the only disagreement I have with the list is Tentacruel, who (frankly) I feel is UU. (Mega super "I am King of the Hill" UU but still UU. To hell with what his official status is.) Other than that, I think I would agree with that list.
Btw, I have no real desire for us to make our own UPN tier in between OU and UU. But if we want to try it and (lol) if it catches on, that'd be pretty cool.
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06-22-2012, 07:09 PM | #118 |
Double Dragon
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,776
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Oh, I forgot Tornadus for the Iffy list. Knew I'd forget something! Anyway, I think it's worth a shot to make one, even if it's just for shits and giggles. Like you said, if it catches on, great! If it doesn't, there's not really anything lost.
Tentacruel: Personally, I think Tentacruel would lose its usefulness a bit in the new tier, mainly because of the fact that Rain Dish gives it more viability. Without a perma-rain Pokemon in FU, I think it would actually do better in OU than in FU. Not to say that it would be bad in the new tier... actually, by that logic, it won't be too broken for FU. So I guess I'll take Tentacruel off the list and put Tornadus on.
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Last edited by phoopes; 06-22-2012 at 07:13 PM. |
06-22-2012, 07:15 PM | #119 |
大事なのは自分らしいくある事
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Determined
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I want to say Starmie seems a little more GMFU, but I have to admit I've never really used one, and should probably play with it a little myself before I cast an opinion on it. I have the same opinion as Talon on Tentacruel, though.
Here's my IffyIffy list of things I need to try out before voting them either way: Starmie Breloom Virizion Metagross brb, got some testing to do. |
06-22-2012, 08:05 PM | #120 |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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In looking up the numbers to explain to Kind why he's wrong about Starmie, I find the same numbers to explain to the both of us why we're wrong about Tentacruel. Gotta love doin' your own homework.
Smogon's Pokemon-Online % Usage for OU in January 2012: Code:
Total battles: 193244 Total teams: 386488 Total pokemon: 2318468 + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- + | Rank | Pokemon | Usage | Percent | RealUse| RealPct | + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- + | 1 | Scizor | 115131 | 29.795% | 95445 | 29.589% | | 2 | Dragonite | 94170 | 24.370% | 74804 | 23.190% | | 3 | Rotom-W | 90180 | 23.338% | 81458 | 25.253% | | 4 | Heatran | 75896 | 19.641% | 64983 | 20.145% | | 5 | Tyranitar | 73732 | 19.081% | 65871 | 20.420% | | 6 | Ferrothorn | 69106 | 17.884% | 60648 | 18.801% | | 7 | Politoed | 63048 | 16.316% | 58773 | 18.220% | | 8 | Terrakion | 58050 | 15.023% | 44615 | 13.831% | | 9 | Jirachi | 56666 | 14.665% | 47998 | 14.880% | | 10 | Latios | 54773 | 14.175% | 44785 | 13.884% | | 11 | Gliscor | 52927 | 13.697% | 43762 | 13.566% | | 12 | Landorus | 49178 | 12.727% | 41817 | 12.964% | | 13 | Starmie | 45934 | 11.887% | 36347 | 11.268% | | 14 | Skarmory | 44112 | 11.416% | 38099 | 11.811% | | 15 | Tentacruel | 40507 | 10.483% | 33790 | 10.475% | | 16 | Celebi | 38971 | 10.085% | 33251 | 10.308% | | 17 | Gengar | 38010 | 9.837% | 30519 | 9.461% | | 18 | Magnezone | 33750 | 8.734% | 27697 | 8.586% | | 19 | Breloom | 32130 | 8.315% | 26594 | 8.244% | | 20 | Gyarados | 31425 | 8.133% | 26140 | 8.104% | As you can see, Starmie is on roughly 10% of all teams. That's substantial. By comparison, OU heavyweights you'd never doubt like Gengar and Gyarados clock in just beneath 10% and beneath Starmie in terms of overall usage. Starmie is amazing because of the variety of roles he can not only fulfill as an expert but he can even double-dip into as an apprentice. He can be a dedicated SpAttacker, he can be a dedicated entry hazards cleaner-upper and annoyer, or he can be both. I have mine be both but only because having him be a dedicated SpAttacker was suicide on my team with all the entry hazards in the metagame when I started playing on P-O. Nowadays I should really probably reconsider having Rapid Spin on him and instead put Psychic or Recover or some other move there, but meh, the moment I do that I'm sure I'll notice all the entry hazards destroying me so for now it stays. Great typing, great stats, just an all-around great Pokémon. I've loved him since UPN was just a baby and thirteen years later he still gets the job done like the champ that he is.
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06-22-2012, 08:25 PM | #121 |
Double Dragon
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,776
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Fun fact: Starmie and Gengar are the only two Pokemon to remain OU throughout all five generations. Going into 5th gen, Zapdos still fit this, but has since been dropped down to UU.
Also, didn't expect to see Celebi and Magnezone that high up in usage. I knew they were both popular, but that's really something that they made it into the Top 20.
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06-23-2012, 10:31 AM | #122 |
Barghest Barghest Barghe-
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OMG REGIGIGAS GETS CLEAR BODY????
Is this true because I am seeing this on Serebii and I am aware that this may be wrong. Also, I am very afraid of Giga Drain Venusaur. This may make it way too powerful.
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Last edited by Princess Ana; 06-23-2012 at 11:59 AM. |
06-23-2012, 01:42 PM | #123 |
大事なのは自分らしいくある事
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Determined
Posts: 5,840
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Until further notice, I'mma gonna say no.
But if that's true... OU or Ubers, just like that. High enough stats for Ubers, but a horrid offensive type, without the SD or ES that makes EKiller Arceus so good. |
06-23-2012, 02:05 PM | #124 |
時の彼方へ
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 20,578
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Getting Clear Body would be amazing if only because it means not having Slow Start. Never mind that it itself is a pretty good ability. (Not the greatest in the pantheon of abilities, sure, but not everyone can have Levitate, goddammit. )
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06-23-2012, 02:07 PM | #125 |
Charismagnetism
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Yeah Regigigas would be GOD powerful if it has any ability other than Slow Start or Truant.
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