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Old 04-05-2018, 09:30 AM   #1
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Shadow Pokemon, Negative Bond, and Shadow Spray



Shadow Pokemon, Negative Bond, and Shadow Spray


I'll be straightforward: this thread is about (hopefully) introducing Shadow Spray and/or unlocking negative Bond in FB. I know at least a few people, myself included, want access to Shadow Pokemon, and I don't think there is any good, logical reason that we don't have it. Allow me to break down my arguments:

There's a Shiny Spray, so why not a Shadow Spray?

I'm of the belief that Shadow Pokemon should not be more rare than Shiny Pokemon -- and yet, in FB, they are. Significantly. Depending on the generation of games you play, you have between a 1/4000 and 1/8000 chance in getting a Shiny. (I'm rounding here. A lot.) While you can, theoretically, get any Pokemon as a shiny, you're highly unlikely to. Conversely, while there are only 132 species canonically available as a Shadow Pokemon, you're guaranteed to get a Shadow Pokemon if you play a game in which Shadow Pokemon exist. And yes, there are a handful of games where you're guaranteed to get a Shiny Pokemon (*cough*Gen 5*cough*) -- the number of guaranteed Shinies are significantly lower than the number of guaranteed Shadows available to players. Ergo, shinies are harder to obtain canonically -- and yet this is not reflected in FB.

But Tate, I heard you say, Shiny Pokemon are only aesthetic -- Shadow Pokemon are mechanically different! This is true. Which brings me to...

The only aspect of Shadow-ness we cannot readily access in FB is the aesthetic.

Functionally speaking, there's really only three things you get from a Shadow Pokemon: a Pokemon that is likely to disobey you, access to Shadow moves, and that super spoopy aesthetic. We'll disregard the first point for now, because having a Pokemon that won't do what you tell it to isn't really a bonus for most people. So that leaves two 'pluses' about Shadow Pokemon: Shadow moves, and Shadow aesthetic.

The thing is, though, through Bond reward any Pokemon can learn up to two Shadow moves. They don't have to be Shadow Pokemon -- literally any Pokemon can do so. And while I know some players don't agree with with this being permissible, the fact is that it is. Yes, Shadow Pokemon can learn more Shadow moves, but there's nothing stopping people from getting access to Shadow moves if they're willing to work for it. So the only actual aspect of Shadow Pokemon locked behind a wall is the appearance, and that doesn't really make sense. The only other (non-niche) canon aesthetic variation -- Shiny Pokemon -- is fairly easy to obtain; you only need to earn 50FC. (Challenging, yes, but by no means impossible -- I've earned three Shiny Sprays inside of a year and I think we can all agree I'm not exactly a prolific updator.)

So why can't we access Shadow Pokemon? Is it because it's inherently cruel to make a Pokemon a shadow?

Moral restrictions in the RPG are inconsistent and not really justifiable.

In FB, there are various rules that prevent people from doing things on the ground of their morality. For example, in the Boutique there are rules against body horror modifications, and even modifications that cause pain. (RIP, Kai's hip displasia.) Now, I think it's fair to say that none of us want to the playing an RPG that is the Pokemon equivalent of Cupcakes, but the fact of the matter is that you really don't need to abuse your Pokemon to make them a Shadow.

Happiness values have been a core mechanic since Gen II, and to make your Pokemon unhappy, all you really need to do is feed it bitter medicine and let it faint in battle. These things aren't act of malice or malevolence -- Youngster Joey's Rattata has been fainted hundreds of time (courtesy of yours truly) and I don't think anyone is going to argue that he's a bad person who doesn't care about his Pokemon -- he just sucks.

I can hear it now: Tate, happiness and Shadow-ness are not the same thing! Well... no, not in canon. But in FB, they pretty much are. Through bond, we have very closely conflated the two: -20 Bond is equivalent to minimum happiness value -- you know, that thing you can achieve by being a sucky but not really malevolent trainer -- and is also the point in which a Pokemon becomes a Shadow. Ergo, minimum happiness = shadow.

Moreover, outside of mechanics there really isn't anything stopping anyone from having a character who's a bad person. One of the people I'm updating in Bedlam Ridge right now is trying to join an evil organization, and I know for a fact there's a character floating around out there who has nuked at least one country into oblivion. This places FB in a really weird position where it's okay to cause nuclear holocaust, but not okay to be kind-of-sort-of mean to your Pokemon.

Other 'cruel' game mechanics are allowed.

Anyone who has played Gen VII knows that, canonically, Mega Evolution is kind of... terrible. Descriptions range from incredible pain to blind rages to a mother watching her child become a creature only fit for violence. It's pretty awful. Yet, we allow access to Mega Evolution.

And I kow that some people don't exactly love the way Mega Evolution is described in more recent games, and some even choose not to accept the canon. And that's fine! But I don't think we can disallow ready access to Shadow Pokemon for moral reasons if we allow things like Mega Evolution. You don't have to accept the canon, but picking and choosing which canons an entire game subscribes to isn't fair.

What I'm proposing:

* Shadow Spray to be offered as an alternate 50FC prize, alongside Shiny and Devolution Spray.

* Access to negative Bond should be opened up. This will involve creating mechanics for losing bond, but I think we're capable of doing this. Opening up negative Bond also fixes another glaring mechanical hole: right now, because we cannot access negative bond, we cannot max out the damage of Frustration; a move which is a widespread TM and which, to my knowledge, the TM emporium sells.

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Old 04-05-2018, 09:45 AM   #2
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(I'll just C/P from the other thread then :P)

On Shadows:

So, about a discussion started recently on Discord about increasing availability of Shadows or, at least, conversion into Shadow.

A "Shadow Spray" has been proposed similar to the current Shiny Spray. Personally, I'm not a fan of this idea. Unlike shinies, there's more to Shadows than justa change of coloration - there's an implicit psyche change behind the process, which draws a line between shadow and non-shadow that isn't there for shiny vs non-shiny. With that in mind, dousing ink on a Pokemon to make them essentially evil is too artificial for my taste.

However, I don't think Pokemon should only be allowed to convert from bad to good (i.e. Purification). We should be allowed to explore the other side of this process, because the world of FB doesn't have to be inherently "good". I'd welcome the opportunity to let players dabble with Pokemon conversion into shadow, especially since we already have a system in place to account for this kind of transformation with the current Bond mechanics.

Trying to compromise between practicality and RP setting (because something too forcibly tied into RP might put people off if they lack time), I thought of something off the top of my head which, if not ideal, at least could be a good starting point for discussion.

In my LMN adventure, TKF guided my character into a cave with an underground lake. The water in that pool was imbued in a Dark Aura that corrupted everyone who drank from it, and most other Pokemon in the vicinity. I'm not sure this is an official LMN location, but it could be the setting we currently lack.

To make things practical, we could maybe approach this as the old FB handled Happiness. It was essentially a weekly shop, which lacked flavour but made up for it in convenience, to be perfectly honest. So my idea was:

- 5 weeks of drop-off, representing 5 stages of meditation/training inside the Dark Aura Cave. At the end of that period, a Pokemon will be imbued by and control the aura, effectively becoming Shadow. So basically, a 5-week Daycare drop-off with a bit of flavour, which may or may not be RPed if the player wishes.

- Week 1: "[Pokemon nickname]'s fears are starting to surface..."
- Week 2: "[Pokemon nickname] is behaving erratically under the influence of the cave's aura..."
- Week 3: "[Pokemon nickname] is learning to adapt to its newfound violent instincts..."
- Week 4: "[Pokemon nickname] somehow feels at ease in this oppressive atmosphere..."
- Week 5: "[Pokemon nickname] has learned to control and manifest its inner darkness completely!"
. [Pokemon nickname] has become a Shadow [Pokemon species]!


Rough around the edges, sure, but hey, it's a start - it's not too demanding on player time, and it's not a simple matter of dumping a spray on a Pokemon. Care to join in on the discussion?
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Old 04-05-2018, 09:46 AM   #3
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Although I play a morally good character, I would love to see the potential of opening up negative bond. I know a few people play characters that are a little more in the morally grey character, so a few bad eggs having shadow Pokemon would certainly make sense. Personally, I like shadow Pokemon. I like the moves, I like the idea, and I would certainly love the chance to RP with one. (Something I probably would never get the chance to do outside of this idea).

Shadow Pokemon/People with shadow Pokemon don't necessarily have to be "evil" a corrupted Pokemon could be more on the side of angry, especially if their trainer willingly corrupted them. There's no rules set in stone that say a Shadow Pokemon is evil. Quite the contrary, as most Shadows that appeared in the games were corrupted against their will.

I for one, am all for the idea.
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:01 AM   #4
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With regards to Mask, I'd like to say that I'd be okay with not introducing a Shadow Spray if we can at least open up negative bond in a way that is functionally accessible.
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:30 AM   #5
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It's been mentioned before that one of the reasons to go against turning pokemon into shadow is because the process of corrupting a pokemon makes some feel uncomfortable and perhaps goes against the core values of FB. To that I ask what exactly feels wrong about it? Is it because it evokes imagery of animal abuse maybe? If so, perhaps there could be a way to do negative bond without going into that route (and to that extent I really like Mask's proposal). I mean, corruption can be done in kid-friendly terms if that's what it takes. I've lost count of how many kid shows have some main character turn dark and edgy under some corrupt influence. What then is keeping us from embracing the idea?
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:47 AM   #6
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To add onto what I previously said. There's nothing from an RPG standpoint that says we have to corrupt our Pokemon or even play out corrupting them. Most people do not roleplay turning their Pokemon shiny (and if we're going far reaching with the argument that corruption is bad, forcibly turning a Pokemon shiny should've been another issue.). Most people simply act like their Pokemon was always shiny, why couldn't we do the same with shadow Pokemon?
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:01 AM   #7
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At the very least, I want to see more opportunities to find/obtain Shadow pokemon directly. Working with a Shadow Pokemon to purify them would be a good character arc for Mint in my opinion, but she's not the type of person who would do anything to turn a Pokemon to a Shadow-it just doesn't make sense for her to do. So we reach an impasse, because Shadow Pokemon just...don't show up in zones these days. Mint doesn't get an opportunity. That's just my take, though.
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:25 AM   #8
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Shadow Pokémon in zones! I support that, too. Presumably as a reward for a more lengthy, difficult adventure, but still.
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:30 AM   #9
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I wasn't aware that was a limitation, to be honest. Since we can award Shinies, I always assumed we could award Shadows, but none of my updatees have them listed in their Memakyus that I'm aware.
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:37 AM   #10
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I hadn't put one on because I hadn't thought they were encounterable. I'll make a note.
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:40 AM   #11
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Until very recently, I had a shadow on my Memakyu. I finally took it off because, honestly, I assumed it wasn't encouterable. We can't get them anywhere else, why would we be able to get them in zones?
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:47 AM   #12
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Also, another thing: since shadowness/purification is so heavily tied into Bond, I can't do something like, have a Shadow Espeon evolving from a Shadow Eevee (which is one of my ideas for the character arc I mentioned above). Like, yeah it doesn't make any mechanical sense, but the concept of something like a Shadow suddenly gaining psychic powers was something I wanted to explore.
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:47 AM   #13
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Personally. I like the idea of a shadow spray option for Pokémon that are evil or dark outside of how they feel about their trainer. For instance my zubat is an evil vampire bat that would probably kill people if he wasn’t, ya know, level 11 along with under my character’s watch. It would make sense for him to be a shadow Pokémon. I’d also like to point out that in the bond rules in the candy store there is precedent for Pokémon to be “psychologically stabilized” and be shadow at 0 and above bond. So like a shiny spray it doesn’t have to affect how a Pokémon feels about their trainer unless the player wants it to in story, or maybe even just reflect how they were already playing a Pokémon. Perhaps upon applying a shadow spray you could choose between keeping bond unaffected and having it drop to shadow levels
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:55 AM   #14
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> Perhaps upon applying a shadow spray you could choose between keeping bond unaffected and having it drop to shadow levels

I like this.
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Old 04-05-2018, 12:48 PM   #15
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Hello! Unfortunately I do not have much time to fully reply to the fullest (I'll try to do so properly later today), but I got an idea I want to suggest:

What about when we write a 250+ word zone post, we can choose whenever to add or subtract Bond? I mean, adding Bond via posts at the moment is to simply have the Pokémon named in said post, no matter how/what is actually RPed (including things that the RPed Pokémon may not like), so we should be able to choose between the two, no? Maybe?
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Old 04-05-2018, 12:51 PM   #16
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Hello! Unfortunately I do not have much time to fully reply to the fullest (I'll try to do so properly later today), but I got an idea I want to suggest:

What about when we write a 250+ word zone post, we can choose whenever to add or subtract Bond? I mean, adding Bond via posts at the moment is to simply have the Pokémon named in said post, no matter how/what is actually RPed (including things that the RPed Pokémon may not like), so we should be able to choose between the two, no? Maybe?
Honestly, I like this idea, too. If my RP post in my Pokémon literally hating me, it would make sense than I could subtract one bond instead of add one.
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Old 04-05-2018, 01:42 PM   #17
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Hey, so here are my thoughts on the matter. I 100% believe Shadow Pokemon should be readily available, and the idea of a spray makes sense. Not all Shadow Pokemon have to be purely Chaotic Evil, or even Evil. Guess I'm a sucker for how Dark Knight is portrayed in FFXIV, but I think it's a good way to describe how I see Shadow Pokemon. Pokemon who either wield, or have fallen, into the darkness of their hearts for battle. In a sense, Shadow Pokemon could be considered "Berserkers", being more pragmatic fighters who rush and thrive in battle. This can be evidenced by the fever mechanic that came with them in their games. So here are some mechanical ideas in terms of shadow Pokemon and their moves.

All Shadow Pokemon function under the Shadow Typing. The typing deals 1.5x Damage to all types, and takes 2x Damage from all types. Pokemon can use Shadow moves even if they aren't Shadow Pokemon, but they will take recoil for doing so regardless of the move. If a Shadow Move already has innate recoil (i.e Shadow End), that recoil will compound with this recoil. Shadow Pokemon are not hampered by this restriction.

Now, Fever. When a Shadow Pokemon hits about half way through their health, they'll enter a sort of battle fervor known as fever for three rounds. In this state, a Shadow Pokemon's offenses are boost by 2x, while their defenses are lowered by 2x. They will also have a high chance of disobeying their trainer while in Fever. Of course, this drawback of disobeying will be alleviated with more of what I'll propose next.

We should rework "Negative Bond" into something called "Shadow Bond" or whatever would be a more fitting name. This is the go along with the idea that Shadow Pokemon aren't innately evil and still have the ability to form bonds with their trainer. We can take what we already have for negative bond, and tweak it to fit this system better. "Shadow Bond" will also be more adaptive in terms of helping Shadow Pokemon in battle. Of course, it wont change any of the base mechanics I've proposed above, but it will help compensate for them. All of these changes are to move away from Shadow Pokemon are all Chaotic Evil Pokemon who hate their trainers, and also help streamline Shadow Pokemon in FB.
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Old 04-05-2018, 01:53 PM   #18
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I will also point out there is such a thing as Pokemon seeking out this corruption stuff against their trainer's will and becoming Shadow Pokemon that way, or coming across something that creates Shadow Pokemon without a trainer realizing it. (DARK FORCES BEYOND COMPREHENSIONNNNNN)
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Old 04-05-2018, 06:17 PM   #19
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I'm in favor of there being the option to turn Pokémon Shadow, even if it's not exactly something I see myself making use of. I quite like the idea of being able to dictate in which direction Bond goes with each post, too. In addition, perhaps the Calendar could do something for this as well, maybe offering the option of, instead of the regular Birthday Gummi, an Expired Birthday Gummi which would reduce Bond by 2.
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Old 04-05-2018, 09:54 PM   #20
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Before I start on the actual post I wanted to write...
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In addition, perhaps the Calendar could do something for this as well, maybe offering the option of, instead of the regular Birthday Gummi, an Expired Birthday Gummi which would reduce Bond by 2.
Oh man, I giggled at that one! Mechanic/game-wise I find it a good idea, although lore/RP-wise I don't see it work since the Calendar is a venue and probably wouldn't want to give something bad to their patrons... but I guess they could see there's a demand to it, so they offer it?



Anyhow *ahem* What I wanted to say was I'm seeing the whole thing as four specific and separate problems:
  1. What are Shadow Pokémon in terms of FB;
  2. How Shadow Pokémon are acquired;
  3. What's the relationship between Shadow Pokémon and Bond; and
  4. Besides Bond, how Shadow Pokémon work.
So let's break these down, shall we?


What are Shadow Pokémon in Fizzytopia?

I find that this question's answer would help us decide answering the other two questions, so we can make decisions that can work with our "canon".

At the moment (correct me if I'm wrong, because I admittedly do not have that much info), they are more or less like what they are in the games: Pokémon that are modified in some way to become soulless fighting machines. They're a bit out of control as they sometimes don't listen to their trainers and even attack them. They have special shadow moves, have a "hyper mode" where they're even more out of control (but more powerful). The way to get rid of that shadow state is to take care of the Pokémon and Bond with it until it can be purified and turned to normal through purification. The differences Shadow Pokémon in FB has though is the fact that they can still do some basic things that in-game Shadow Pokémon can't (leveling up, evolving, trading), they can even retain their shadow moves after being purified, and their "shadow" look can be seen with the naked and untrained/normal-sensed eye (if you don't count shadow Lugia anyway).

So now, it seems like we want to redefine what a shadow Pokémon is. Is it still just a soulless fighting machine created from some freak unknown process, or should it be something different?

Well, personally, I really like Lit's FF's dark knight approach (which leans a bit on biggggg5's thoughts), that reminds me of fallen Paladins in DnD and whatnot: a Pokémon that has lost touch with their emotions/soul in any way; whenever it is by going through a terrible experiment, being terribly neglected, or being too consumed on a "negative" emotion or thing (examples could be thirst for power, feelings of revenge, or just being pure evil) that they lose touch of... well, everything else up to their very own nature of being a Pokémon. It would not only fit the Pokémon canon, but it would also make it feel more flexible and fun in terms of RPing; all in all fitting to what I believe is FB's philosophy of having a foot between canon of the Pokémon franchise and having a lot of flexibility for the sake of both realism and artistic/RPing fun.


How Shadow Pokémon are acquired?

So back in the day, Shadow Pokémon were and still is very rare, only given at special events, and even then... So the main point here is we want to have an easier access to them, since logically, especially with the thoughts mentioned above of what Shadow Pokémon should be, should be a bit more present, no? I definitely agree that they should be a least a little more populous than the current state of them. (In fact, I feel like they should be equal, if not slightly more than shiny Pokémon in terms of rarity.) So how are we supposed to get them now? I'll list out the suggestions we already stated and I'll work on how I feel about them.

Shadow Spray: The thing that started it all; an item that makes a pokémon a shadow instantly. (Just add water!)

Although it would make a good staff reward-only item like the shiny spray, I have to say that don't like the fact that it is always compared to it. From a game standpoint, Shadow Pokémon goes beyond just the special looks, and actually throws a Pokémon in a whole system of moves and mechanics and whatnot. And from a moral/RP standpoint, while using a shiny spray to a Pokémon against their will is not too bad due to affecting only looks (would giving a haircut to a pet considered bad?), using an item that would corrupt a Pokémon is... quite a terrible thought, especially thinking on what unimaginable thing team Cipher has been doing to turn those Pokémon into Shadow ones. That being said...

I feel that the "Shadow Spray" shouldn't be a spray at all, and instead be something that would make more sense and feel less... abusive, unnatural, and against a Pokémon's will. Thankfully I'm off to a good start with my "new" definition of what a Shadow Pokémon is (hey, told you it'll be useful!): if we go by the definition of a "fallen Pokémon", perhaps that the renamed/revamped item be something that the Pokémon which the item will be "used" on attracts it with what the Pokémon desires, then the item tweaks the Pokémon's existing emotions in a way that will turn them into Shadow Pokémon? For example: a Pokémon's most negative trait is his greed, which isn't too bad since the Pokémon is otherwise pretty innocent. Perhaps the item will either takes form or have some aura that will give the impression of that Pokémon that it is very valuable. As the Pokémon approaches/touches the item, said item amplifies that greed to its maximum and subdues all other emotions/parts of the Pokémon's personality, and then boom - Shadow Pokémon! Question is... what should be that item? Is such thing exist in a similar way in other media? Long story short, I want something that's not a spray, but some kind of corrupting Artifact of Doom™ or Sealed "Evil" in a Can™ (...without being in an actual can). Unfortunately I'm drawing a blank with my imagination at the moment (except for the ring of Lord of the Rings lol) so you guys got any ideas?

Small note: I agree that the trainer could choose between keeping the current Bond or lower it to -50.

Capturing Shadow Pokémon in zones: Hey, if the Pokémon games can do it, why shouldn't we? It would be no surprise that Shadow Pokémon would exist and would be capturable. Perhaps they got thoroughly abused or otherwise lived in dark times somewhere in their lifetime? Got possessed by some kind of ancient evil? Went through the "good" ol' Cypher process? Had a goal that went way too far and lost their way? The choice for the updaters would be limitless!

Going through some corrupting process/meditation: Although I kinda like the idea in general (more than the shadow-inducing item), I feel like not only there shouldn't be too many ways to get a shadow Pokémon, but I don't feel like we should have yet another "shop" process or otherwise something new to keep track. That said... it could be used as a way for a Pokémon to become shadow without using the Shadow item or having to lowering Bond (which represents the relationship with a trainer, which although it is part of curing Shadow Pokémon, by my definition of what a Shadow can be, they can still have a good relationship with someone). So I don't know, I still have mixed feelings about it so I need to think it over.

Choosing between gaining and removing Bond from zone posts: Hello, idea I came up with! My thought behind it is that this way, a person can represent the gradual loss of trust of the Pokémon towards the trainer character, growth of corruption, etc. However, as mentioned with the corruption process idea, if someone wants a Shadow Pokémon without changing Bond... that wouldn't be the way to go.

Bond-removing items: Piggybacking with MM's idea of expired gummis, items that loses bond could be added, including those already existing in the games (that removes friendship). But as my point above, removing bond to achieve Shadow might not be wanted.

Turning existing Pokémon into Shadow as zone reward: This time basing myself on GS' idea a bit, how about being able to have a Pokémon turn into a Shadow one as a reward? Perhaps the trainer (or the Pokémon itself) has found the Shadow-inducing item. Maybe the Pokémon was seeking out that corruption. Or the Pokémon went through such a terrible place that it gradually ate its soul... That could be a very good alternative of the corruption process/meditation that isn't at the cost of Bond!

ALL THAT SAID: I just want to point out something though: seeing on how we might be getting so many options to lower Bond... it feels like it'll unbalance the fact that they're might be less ways to raise Bond afterwards. Perhaps to counter balance that, we should find a new way to raise Bond too?




....and aw crap I'm running out of time to talk about the other two points (relationship between Bond and Shadow Pokémon, and game-based perks and characteristics of Shadow pokémon). Oh well. I think it's best I talk about these in another post, and post what I just wrote right away for all of you to read!
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:34 PM   #21
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I love Masks idea, on phone so no extensive post but I think that's the best way to do it.
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Old 04-07-2018, 12:17 AM   #22
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It’s taken quite a bit of time, effort, and help -- thanks Skunkaru -- but I think I’ve managed to assemble a proposal that should meet more-or-less everyone’s needs as I understand them so far. There’s three main points that need addressing in order to implement broad access to Shadow Pokemon: what they are, how to balance them, and how to obtain them.



What are Shadow Pokemon?


For this proposal, we’ll define a Shadow Pokemon as this: A Pokemon whose abnormal psychological state results in unique physical traits and unpredictable skills.
Traits of Shadow Pokemon:
Shadow Pokemon at Lv. 01 know two (2) Shadow-type moves of the player’s choice.
At Lv. 10, and at every subsequent tenth level, a Shadow Pokemon learns a new Shadow-type move of the player's choice.
Shadow Pokemon have access to the regular movepool of their species.
Shadow Pokemon can earn positive bond.
Shadow Pokemon can be housed in any Poke Ball.
Shadow Pokemon can be dropped off in shops.
Shadow Pokemon can learn TMs.
Shadow Pokemon can breed. Shadow-ness is non-heritable.


How do we balance Shadow Pokemon?


In Pokemon XD, Shadow-type moves do SE damage to all Pokemon, regardless of type. There are concerns that even with updater discretion and an absence of PvP, this could unbalance the game. Two ideas have been proposed so far to balance out Shadow Pokemon, which I will call the Glass Cannon and the Chaotic Neutral.

Glass Cannon: Shadow-type moves do 1.5x damage to all types, but Shadow Pokemon receive 2.0x damage from all types. Fever engages at 50% HP; Pokemon under Fever have increased Attack and Special Attack, and decreased Defense and Special Defense. Pokemon under Fever are highly likely to disobey their trainers.

Chaotic Neutral: Shadow-type moves do 1.0x damage to all types, and Shadow Pokemon receive 1.0x damage from all types. Fever engages at 25% HP; Pokemon under Fever have increased Attack and Special Attack, and decreased Defense and Special Defense. Pokemon under Fever are highly likely to disobey their trainers.

Regardless of which option the community pursues, there are things that still need to be addressed:

1. Can Fever be activated prematurely at the discretion of the trainer or Pokemon?
2. Can Fever be mitigated/cured by ‘calling out’ to the Pokemon, like in the games?


How are Shadow Pokemon obtained?


This is the big money question. So far, three primary methods of obtainment have been proposed.


Introducing Shadow Spray as an item.

This has proven to be the most controversial method. The discussion has gone in circles about the morality of it, with very little headway towards compromise. Due to the viability of other options and the contentious nature of Shadow Spray, it is my opinion that this not an option we should pursue.


Bond, and similar mechanics.

There is already a mechanic in place in FB that allows a player to obtain a Shadow Pokemon by reducing its bond value to -20. While there is currently no way to accrue negative bond in FB, introducing negative bond is arguably the simplest option. However, there is a glaring issue with using bond as a mechanic for Shadow Pokemon: it prevents Shadow Pokemon from achieving happiness-based evolution.

Prior to the reformation of the RPG, the mechanic for shadow-ness was handled separately from the mechanic for happiness. During reformation, happiness and shadow-ness were consolidated into bond. One option is to once again remove shadow-ness from bond, and re-establish a dedicated mechanic.

Keeping shadow-ness an aspect of bond:
Very little changes. The mechanics are already in place, and simply require introducing ways in which to accrue negative bond. Suggestions for ways in which to do this include:

1. Allowing players to choose between either +01 or -01 bond point when claiming zone participation.
2. Allowing players to choose between either +02 or -02 bond points when claiming birthdays.
3. Introducing negative bond equivalents to the Mysterious and Yummy Gummis and their variants.
4. Introducing negative bond for herbal medications. I suggest the following values:
Heal Powder (-01), Energy Powder (-01), Energy Root (-02), Revival Herb (-03).
Department Store prices can be adjusted, as we did with Luxury Balls, to minimize abuse.

Re-introducing a dedicated mechanic for shadow-ness:
It would increase staff workload, but there is a precedent already set for this option. Below is a proposal I have written up, based on the mechanic used prior to the reform.
Quote:

CLARITY


★ Clarity operates on a scale of 00 to 30.
★ Shadow Pokemon start with 00 clarity. All other Pokemon start with 30 clarity.
★ Shadow Pokemon are purified when they reach 30 clarity.
★ Non-shadow Pokemon become Shadow Pokemon when they reach 00 clarity.
★ Clarity, like bond, is optional. You are not obligated to purify your Pokemon.

GAINING CLARITY
+ 01 for participating in a zone post.
+ 01 for winning a zone battle.
+ 01 for one week spent in a shop.

LOSING CLARITY
- 01 for fainting in battle.
- 10 for being housed in a Shadow Ball.


If we choose to move shadow-ness back to its own mechanic, we can simply remove negative values from bond, and set 00 bond at the point in which Frustration's BP is maximized.

A shop that shadow-fies your Pokemon:
A shop has been proposed, comparable to the pre-reform Salon, which would remove a certain value of bond or clarity for each week’s stay, ultimately resulting in a Pokemon becoming a Shadow Pokemon. Honestly, I’m not going to focus much on this concept because I don’t foresee this being the option we, as a community, will pursue, but it at least bears mentioning.


Obtaining Shadow Pokemon via a zone.

First, it should be noted that moderation has confirmed that Shadow Pokemon can be encountered and obtained in regular zones.

That being said, there is also the option of creating a dedicated zone for the obtainment of Shadow Pokemon. I've written up a proposal for a potential zone, the mechanics of which are very similar to the Dream World zone in pre-reform FB.
Quote:


REALM OF SHADOWS


A bizarre place, where nothing is quite normal; to arrive here is a thing of rumor and myth. Running northeast to southwest, bisecting the region of Fizzytopia, is the majestic River Virga. Folklore says that on moonlit nights a hooded figure navigates its length aboard an old, narrow vessel made of wood. For the right price, they will ferry you up the river, to a place not on any map -- a place many say doesn’t even exist.

Zone Rules:
- Entry into the zone requires payment of one Silver Umbra.
- A player may only visit the Realm of Shadows twice within one calendar year.
- A player may do one of the following per adventure: catch a Shadow Pokemon, purify a Shadow Pokemon, or convert a Pokemon to Shadow Pokemon.

Zone Areas:
The Skewed Forest: Along the banks of the river grows a dense forest of white-barked trees, with branches that twist and tangle in ways not seen in any typical wood. Regardless of season, the branches are always thick with leaves and abloom with strange yet beautiful flowers unlike anything ever seen elsewhere. The forest teams with life, but the Pokemon found here don't seem quite normal...

The Twisty Shrine: At the heart of the Skewed Forest is a large tree; so large it defies imagination. Its snow-white bark is covered in innumerable carvings, of pictures, of names, of wishes and ideas, in languages both familiar and foreign. Some of them are deep, and some of them are shallow; some are quite old, and others look brand new. Its branches seem to reach the heavens, and its roots, each one as thick around as a man, rise from the soil in fantastic knots and curls. In the hollow space formed between the earth and the twist of the mightiest of the roots is a shrine with no known origin to the deity Pokemon Lugia, said to have been so overwhelmed by its own power that it hid itself in the sea. An earnest prayer to the wooden effigy can bring clarity to those in need, or unshackle those who wish to be freed from the restraints of normalcy.



The Lake of Reflections: A rivulet breaks from the river, trickling down a steep slope to pool in the basin at the foot of the hills. Opalescent and almost ethereal, the water reflects back a distorted image of the world. Crooked reeds grow around its edge, skirted by oddly shaped lily pads and strangely colored grasses. Deep enough to swim in, its surface ripples with all the signs of a thriving ecosystem, but the creatures that call this place home are just a little unusual...

The Crooked Font: On the far side of the Lake of Reflections is a crude fountain made of smooth yet irregularly shaped rocks of many colors, set into the side of a hill. It flows, never-ending, though there there is no evidence of a spring to feed it. The largest of the stones forms a centerpiece, upon which is painted odd yet recognizable images of the deity trio of Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres, their wings folded and their heads bowed as if in deep introspection. The water here is cool and sweet and pleasant to drink. It is so refreshing that it is nearly transcendental; those who imbibe talk of seeing the world with a new clarity, or discovering new resolve to walk a unique path in life.



The Topsy-Turvy Hills: Surrounding the Lake of Reflection are seven hills, with drastic slopes and lopsided valleys. So wild are the curves and peaks that to walk them is to not even know if one is coming, or going. Wildflowers grow along their sides in neon colors that defy nature, speckled like faerie lights in the tall grass. Even when the winds are still, the hillsides rustle with the comings and goings of little critters that, under close inspection, are a tad bit odd...

The Peculiar Peak: Reaching the top of the tallest hill is surprisingly challenging. Though ostensibly of finite height, those who try to climb find themselves seeming to make no progress in their ascension -- up and up they walk, and yet the peak doesn't ever seem to get any closer. Still, it is just a hill; if one walks long enough up its side, surely one will reach the top eventually. If you do, a breathtaking view awaits. Here, one can see everything in the realm, which seems to stretch on forever in a tapestry of thickets, hills, valleys, and rivulets. Towering above the earth, one could almost catch the stars that streak through the sky as they fall in twos and threes in an endless cosmic cascade. A constellation likened to the deity Pokemon Ho-oh hangs like a crown jewel over the peak, promising to bring new and different life from the ashes of the old -- a clearer future, or a strange new journey.



Quote:

SILVER UMBRA


An unusual silver coin of unknown origin. On its face is an impression of the deity Trio of Entei, Raikou, and Suicune. Supposedly, it can be used as currency...

Obtainable as: Staff reward, alternative to Shiny Spray. (@ 50FC, 100FC, 150FC, etc.) Rare zone reward. Event.



I constructed the zone to work with the proposed mechanic of clarity because the general consensus so far seems to be that a separate mechanic from bond is preferred. Functionally, the zone is fairly basic:

- Only Shadow Pokemon can be encountered in the Realm of Shadows.
- Shadow Pokemon can be encountered in the Skewed Forest, the Lake of Reflections, and the Topsy-Turvy Hills.
- Players must first traverse the basic area to reach the deeper area; e.g. one must cross or circumvent the Lake of Reflections to reach the Crooked Font.
- At the deeper areas (Twisty Shrine, Crooked Font, Peculiar Peak) players may choose to either raise one of their Pokemon's clarity to 30, or lower it to 00 -- purifying or shadow-fying them in the process.




Finally, I know that one big concern with implementing anything new is the added workload. If we choose to implement a zone or a new mechanic (i.e. clarity) I readily volunteer myself to help with the labor. I'm very much willing to work to bring about the things which I am proposing.


Last edited by 134; 04-07-2018 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 04-07-2018, 01:45 AM   #23
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I really like most of everything proposed here. The definition of shadow Pokémon all makes sense to me. As for balancing, I like the idea of the chaotic neutral better than the glass cannon. It allows Pokémon to retain the niches of their species without all falling into the same battle style. However I think that defensively Pokémon should retain their type weaknesses. It’s a core part of Pokémon and isn’t something that should be done away with easily. In the games the shadow quilava is just as weak to water as a regular quilava. (I also may be misinterpreting this as this being not being on top of type effectiveness, if so disregard this). Other than that I really like the clarity and zone ideas and would offer to help out with either of those as well (the latter occurring after my time serving at DG ends) Also I brought it up in discord and got my answer but it should be clarified when we write it all down that if you wish you pokemon to remain shadow that you don’t have to add clarity.
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Old 04-07-2018, 03:12 AM   #24
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I'm really too tired right now to get into the nitty-gritty details, but I just want to say that I really like Tate's idea for Clarity and their shadow Pokemon zone proposal. Might try to find time to organize my thoughts into more specifics when I've had a little more rest, but I do think it would be a good idea to separate shadow points from bond.
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Old 04-07-2018, 11:44 AM   #25
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As I've said on Discord, I personally think the Clarity system is good (its very low maintenance and can basically just be member tracked instead of needing a shop) and that the zone is cool. The fact that its more gated is I think a good thing since it'll keep the workload down.

That would probably be where I want to go with that, and personally, I'm a fan of Shadow moves doing neutral damage to everything.
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