10-06-2011, 09:17 PM | #51 |
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Okay, while I was researching, I just tried looking up "Mayu" and got "eyebrows". ...Is it just me, or does Mayushii have rather prominent brows? XD *waggle*
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10-06-2011, 09:47 PM | #52 | |
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Talon, you sound like a conspiracy theorist. Luckily, this is a conspiracy theory anime, so who knows, who knows.
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What are you looking up specifically? The real names, broken down real names, or the nick-names?
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10-06-2011, 10:09 PM | #53 | |
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*shrug* Was just trying a few permutations. Was focusing on the nicknames/bolded bits I guess.
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10-06-2011, 10:28 PM | #54 |
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Really? It still works for me. Oh well.
http://i51.tinypic.com/a4pm5c.jpg I personally find the novel's art atrocious, with surreal glowing eyes.
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10-06-2011, 11:35 PM | #55 |
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Watched 12 ... and wow. Had to press on to 13.
Watched 13 and ...WOW. This is going to be very interesting.
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10-07-2011, 01:23 AM | #56 |
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I had to look-up Steins 13 because I forgot the details, and remembered that episode bored me because I've already seen that idea done better in other titles, and it's just more of the author trying to convince us that Kyouma is somehow an innocent victim of his mass stupidity.
Officially, he traveled back in time several thousand times, trying new things but with the same outcome. The obvious question is why didn't he ask Daru or Makise Kurisu for advice/help? He went back thousands of times, you'd think that after the first two he'd try to consult with others about what exactly is going on. That's usually a scientist's first impulse when not understanding something, to seek a second opinion! Not only that, he pities himself later in later episodes, which only enraged me because of how obviously irresponsible he was being earlier in the story. You two are going through this awfully fast, so I don't know if you're actively noticing this, but starting with the premise of there being a SERN conspiracy, you know something bad is going to happen sometime down the line, and Steins just draws attention to it by having Kyouma make questionable snap decisions, like allowing Moeka and Feyris the option to change history almost for kicks. Everything that subsequently happens is his fault and he never learns from his mistakes or thinks about things, it's always a knee-jerk emotional reaction. Where's his sense of self-control? He's supposed to be a rational scientist, not a wimp in perpetual panic mode. Keep in mind the chronology. Steins takes place over a two week period, with Day 1 being Nakabachi's lecture and Day 14 being the night of broken glass. The time machine was finished around Day 13 I think. Also remember that in each time-travel event, Kyouma somehow escapes a city-wide lockdown by SERN to get back to the time-machine.
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ふたりの想いが見つけだす希望 今 信じあえる あきらめない 心かさね 永遠を抱きしめて Last edited by Doppleganger; 10-07-2011 at 01:26 AM. |
10-07-2011, 07:24 AM | #57 | ||||
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Still only through Episode 13. Will watch more (much more ) this weekend.
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10-07-2011, 09:01 AM | #58 | ||||
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By the by, I haven't seen Back to the Future yet either. ^^; Should probably get on that. =x Quote:
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1) He feels it's his responsibility and needs to clean up his own mess by himself. 2) He doesn't want to involve the others and put their lives in danger as well. Spoiler through ep13: Spoiler: show Quote:
Spoiler: show Seems to me Okabe's just living a kid's fantasy. He may be good with technology, but that's it. He didn't even know the scope of what he'd invented until Makise came to the lab and helped him organize the experiments. Generally, common sense is lost on him until it smacks him in the face, and by then it's too late.
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10-07-2011, 10:18 AM | #59 |
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Just started episode 16. Now I see where the nicknames are headed. Major spoiler, click if you know the meaning of "Barrel":
Spoiler: show Edit- Past the OP. Spoiler: show Edit2- Finished episode. Still confused, but previous statement withdrawn.
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10-07-2011, 11:24 AM | #60 |
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I forgot to mention this the other day, but when I watched Episode 08 or 09 or whenever it was (I think it was probably Episode 09, my first one yesterday), Okabe had a conversation with Kurisu where he says keikaku doori, "Just as planned. >)" I haven't seen the Death Note anime nor read the manga, but I got the reference. Nice.
Steins;Gate seems to have an all-star voice acting cast. Suzuha Amane's voice sounds very familiar, so I decided to look up on ANN what else she's done. It turns out she's also voiced ... - Mei (Sunohara's sister) in Clannad - Ranpha Franboise in Galaxy Angel - Rika in Higurashi no Naku Koro ni - Seppuku Kuro Usagi in Kampfer - Kawasumi Mai in Kanon - Nanoha in Nanona - Ten-ten in Naruto - Misha in Pita-Ten ... and a ton of other roles, as you can see from her ANN page. Makise Kurisu's voice also sounds incredibly familiar, so I looked up her page, too, and discovered that she's provided the voice for ... - Chihaya in The iDOLM@STER That's kind of it for her list. ^^; It's not nearly as long as Suzuha's VA's. But still! That's where I've heard her voice before! She's Chihaya! Who only happens to be Doppel's waifu! ^_- You know what that means! You can't hate Steins;Gate anymore! XD [/retardedly wrong 4th grader logic] Jests aside, that's pretty funny. I thought Moeka's might have been familiar, but despite reading through her profile, too, I'm not seeing the vocal connection, not even when it's with characters I know and love, like ... - Keiko from Minami-ke - Barasuishou from Rozen Maiden: Träumend Barasuishou is quiet like Moeka but they have different voices. Keiko's voice might be the same as Moeka's, it's hard to tell, but she talks audibly and at a faster tempo than the deflated Moeka does. Oh lord. Doppel, you'd best not look at Steins' ANN page if you don't want to blow a blood vessel. It seems that, well, uh, ... Steins is held in incredibly high regard amongst those who bothered to vote on it.
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10-07-2011, 11:47 AM | #61 | |||||
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When you saw Geass, you missed tons of stupid stuff and logical breaches because the plot moved too quickly. But while Geass had a lot of plot, it was fundamentally character driven and didn't alienate the viewer from sympathies with the two main characters. Even when most of the cast became detestable, the viewers could still empathize with Lelouch and Suzaku. I personally found Lelouch's development to be too sinusoidal, but what Taniguchi did right was having Lelouch at the end a very different person from who he was in the beginning. Point A wasn't a straight shot to Point B, but it got there. Such allowed viewers to better forget the turbulent mid-series decisions for him, although I can't really dismiss it (that's like saying a show with a good start and a good ending = a good show). Steins is a plot centric story, but it will also attempt appeal to this same sympathy, and for the most part fails on this emotional connection to the characters. Part of the problem is the characters are cardboard stereotypes with the same depth as the paper they're drawn on. But Kyouma doesn't have some tragic flaw that leads him down a path a normal person would. He's consistently doing things so dumb and in disagreement with his established character it breaks disbelief and comes across as extremely contrived. The one exception is Suzuha, who I genuinely felt sorry for. I felt her development was very well done and set an example for the rest novel that wasn't followed. Quote:
So I find I have little sympathy for Kyouma. Yes, the situation he's fallen into is quite grim, but he was tempting fate the whole time with his carelessness. It's not a case of a poor dumb guy getting a bad break, it's a case of the writer trying to setup a scenario by having the character act irrationally. Kyouma had little motivation, he was messing with history with little provocation or concern (didn't it strike you odd that when Daru concludes SERN has been monitoring their room, Kyouma exclaims "let's reveal the time machine to the public!" ). It's like Natsu no Arashi!'s Sayaka wanting to travel back in time to drink her milk before the expiration date, only taken dead seriously. Quote:
SERN plays much a role like Leiblich did in Ever17 - it's influence is felt, but it's a very distant, transient, almost non-threatening compared with the more shocking and visual phenomenon of conserved causality. Which is really the underlying explanation for Mayuri's repeated deaths, not it being fate (Kyouma carried the "Mayuri death" event from his first loop through the Alpha Line, so in every subsequent repeat it wouldn't go away). "the future" is also similar to SERN's influence. You don't see it, and attempts are made to persuade you it's real. This keeps the story closed room, with a small cast in a fixed frame of time. Unfortunately, knowing this, you can almost predict the entire story's plot by looking at the first episode, and realizing that (BIG SPOILER?) Spoiler: show In this sense, I really liked Remember11's Enomoto. He "broke" the perception of there being a closed cast and introduced un-predictability to the story. For example, for Corsola, and later for you Talon (Suzuha stuff): Spoiler: show
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10-07-2011, 12:09 PM | #62 | ||
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10-07-2011, 12:48 PM | #63 | |||||
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@Corsola - you're on the right track to consider names. Humans often make assumptions looking at names that might not necessarily be true. In my posts I've been saying someone's name in a peculiar way to draw attention to it.
However, Night of Broken Glass was only a historical metaphor for the SERN-induced pandemonium on Day 14. I didn't mean anything deeper than that, so I'm sorry I'm leading you astray. D: Quote:
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What bugs me, though, isn't that he's stupid. It's that his unusual actions draw attention to how they're going to cause a surprise. Kaiji season two sppoiler: Spoiler: show G-Senjou also did something like this. This one guy kept calling the other guy by his last name, and did so with such regularity around evidence that suggested his identity it was glaringly obvious even considering naming conventions (referring to other people by their last name) that the writer was trying to be indescript about it and imply a red herring. Later in the story, when confronted, the man says "that was the only name the man told me!". Quote:
I don't really care about Steins' popularity with English anime fans, since a school of thought is out that criticizes it. What concerns me is it's popularity in Japan where it has a market influence on subsequent visual novels. Remember, 5pb. wants to be Apple Japan and have visual novels go "mainstream" there, hence the very heavy otaku/popular tech bent for its ";" series. 1. Chaos;Head's protagonist Nishijou Takumi was a hikki who masturbates on his plastic figurines and frequently showcases social anxiety, paranoia, xenophobia and falls victim to basal urges. Prominently features cellphones. 2. Steins;Gate takes place in Akiba. Prominently features cellphones. 3. Robotics;Notes follows a fighting game enthusiast Yashiro Kaito who builds a giant robot. No, it isn't a parody, it's taken very seriously. Chaos;Head was very mediocre, and I feel Steins;Gate is around the same level, but because of its setting it's more tolerable than C;H was. It's like how Muv-Luv Extra and Unlimited are, fundamentally, similar stories, but a change of environment in Unlimited makes it a MILLION times more interesting, because of how exotic it is. In comparison, time travel is inherently more interesting than a mentally unstable kid having hallucinations in public, as Takumi did. But the level of thrill in Steins and Chaos are comparable. I guess it's like decorating the same flavour of cake.
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10-07-2011, 02:05 PM | #64 | |||
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10-07-2011, 02:50 PM | #65 | ||
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10-07-2011, 03:26 PM | #66 |
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Was going to post, but I had to tell Doppel something quickly and it was either AIM or else PM. I saw that he was modifying a post (aren't you always? ) so I decided it'd be faster to go on AIM. So ... apologies in advance for the conversational nature of the stuff in these next three spoiler boxes. Btw, I'm through Episode 15 right now.
Thoughts on Okabe's Character Development Spoiler: show About Suzuha's parents Spoiler: show About one of my other earlier theories - this one's a heck of a lot more easy to guess though Spoiler: show Doppel then said something which I considered to be a HUGE spoiler. He protested and said "This is from after-the-anime material, so it's not a spoiler." Decide for yourself what the rules on that sort of thing are. But anyway, since he said this, I went ahead and explained to him how it was a spoiler to me. And he said, "Now you're thinking with portals. I won't confirm anything, but that is excellent insight." So having said that, click at your own discretion! Skip ahead to the line with the six *'s to find the relevant bit, but start from the beginning to see the full train of thought at work. Spoiler: show
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10-08-2011, 12:24 PM | #67 | |
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Spoiler: show Hey, they've already used the same ploy twice. ^^;
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10-08-2011, 12:51 PM | #68 |
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Almost finished with 16. Just paused it because I was confused about something and thought that it may have been the first evidence I've noticed about the program's inconsistent time travel logic that Doppel was talking about. However, as I discovered mid-way through writing the spoiler box contents below, it turns out it was a false alarm.
(spoilers thru 16) Spoiler: show May as well discuss 16 then while we're at it and I'm almost done. It's sad, but it's not quite as sad as I'd been expecting it would be given what you all were saying. The saddest part is obviously the s_____e, not so much the f__l__e, but even that isn't kept as being too too sad since Okabe intends to undo it pretty quickly. It'd be sad if it stayed permanently. Maybe it does. I mean, I haven't finished the episode, after all. But Mr. Brown is already describing a scenario which sounds like the past was changed, so, yeah. (erodoujinshi parallel; do not click if under 18, though everything written here is work-safe) Spoiler: show What episode are you on, Yuki? I'm about to finish 16. Are we caught up? I've lost track. I get the feeling you're further ahead than 16.
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10-08-2011, 01:06 PM | #69 |
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We should be on the same page now. Want to hear back from Dopple first in case he gives any more hints before continuing.
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10-08-2011, 01:18 PM | #70 |
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As far as I can tell, the name thing was already revealed in Episode 16:
Spoiler: show So like, I don't see the point in playing the name game any more. I guess we could, because Doppel seems so focused on Hououin Kyouma / Okabe Rintarou, but I really don't have anything other than retardedly juvenile and incorrect guesses like: Spoiler: show Or if it's Makise Kurisu we should be focusing on ... Spoiler: show See what I mean? Nothing really jumps out. It isn't as obvious as it was in Ever17. The "Barrel Titor" one is, but nothing else beyond that, which makes me think that's the end of the road as far as name-based prophecies go. Could be wrong, but ... I'mma press on to 17 after this unless Fate/Zero Ep02 comes out here in a second.
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10-08-2011, 02:50 PM | #71 |
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Through Episode 18. This was originally written as a PM to Yuki to get her to watch thru 18 without waiting on Doppel, but it ended up containing speculation of mine which I wanted shared with everybody , so here it is.
(Part which was originally going to be PMed) Spoiler: show Now comes the bit which prompted me to post this as a post here. Speculation which isn't really a spoiler per se but could be, particularly if you didn't click on the parent spoiler box above. Spoiler: show On to Episode 19. Kinda getting bored by virtue of marathoning (I'm not a marathoner at heart, not with most things anyway ^^; ) but when I'm so close to the goal, I can't help but feel like, "C'mon, Talon! Just five more episodes and you can put this one away!" Current thoughts? "6/10 - Fine" at worst, and perhaps a "7/10 - Good." In the end, the hollow characters will probably net it the 6. But this is in no way, shape, or form the train wreck that Doppel said it was. It's not even bad. On the black-or-white scale of "Did you like it or did you dislike it?", I'd say I enjoyed this. If I hadn't, I wouldn't have watched as much as I did as quickly as I did, now would I? But there're still five episodes to go, so anything could happen. After all: No.6 completely self-destructed in those last few episodes! So it ain't over 'til it's over.
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10-08-2011, 03:12 PM | #72 | |
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To guide you along, compare the differences between what I am calling her and what I should be calling her for convenience sake/conservation of typing and think about what I'm trying to draw attention to.
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10-08-2011, 03:22 PM | #73 | |
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Spoiler: show The latter reminds me of Layton again. XP
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10-08-2011, 03:57 PM | #74 |
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Through Episode 20. I feel really bad for people like Kiryuu Moeka, but they're also really detestable. I ...
Spoiler: show Okay, time for some Fate/Zero, methinks. But after that, just four more episodes remain until I'll have finished off Steins;Gate!
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10-08-2011, 04:19 PM | #75 | ||
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@Corsola - "Makise".
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Makise Kurisu's time machine is fundamentally similar to the cell-phone microwave in that it sends information back to the past to a receiver. In this case, it's comparable to Kyouma sending the lotto ticket information to his old phone, only it's to his brain in this case. The problem with this (and Corsola will be familiar with what I'm talking about) is that this system of time travel precludes physical time travel in most circumstances. An individual who sends any information in the past, including physical data, will be sent/combined with that person's existence in the past. Let's say Kyouma joined the military and became a buff mass of destruction. If he physically goes into the past, where he exists, his memory information along with his body information gets combined with his past self, since it's a "receiver". The result is his past self gets ripped. Or he might not. It's difficult to determine how reality would rectify contradictory data - it's simple with Kyouma because he's just adding new memories to his old memories and not new memories that contradict the old memories. Suzuha episode info: Spoiler: show It's not stated what kind of time machines SERN has, but it's heavily implied they are using Makise Kurisu's model and not Daru's model that allows perfect time-travel. This might explain why Japanese thugs (those masks are very Japanese-style) instead of futuristic foreign soldiers went to detain Kyouma's lab, the best they could do is try to organize themselves in the past when they lack the resources they have in the future. The story bites itself by first giving a working model of a time-machine, then presenting an upgraded model following the same principles that actually does something comparable to time-travel while explaining why it has to be like that...then runs over that model with a DeLorean. Quote:
Spoiler: show I was calling that the whole time, but it didn't happen apparently. Episode 21 is a big part of why I hate the "character development" in Steins Makise Kurisu: Spoiler: show Talon, you didn't make mention of Feyris, but you must have passed that episode by now. What did you think of it?
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